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  #21  
Old 18-10-2013
Phil Channon Phil Channon is offline
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The proposals are:

Either
23.11 At Sanctioned events two types of control tyre will be adopted for the driven axle on 2WD cars and the front and rear axle of 4WD cars. The choice of tyres for the non-driven axle on 2WD cars will be free, subject to conforming to rule 23.7. The Section committee will approve the choice of control tyres.

Or
23.11 At Sanctioned events two types of control tyre will be adopted for the front and rear axles on 2WD cars and the front and rear axle of 4WD cars. The choice of tyres are, subject to conforming to rule 23.7. The Section committee will approve the choice of control tyres.


So depending on how the vote goes it could effect both classes or just 4wd.

The line I find of interest is that the "Section committee will approve the choice of control tyres". So even is the club nominate a tyre the committee could over-rule them.
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  #22  
Old 18-10-2013
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I dont see front tyres as an issue. For me and the vast majority the choice is schumacher minispike or stagger rib / cut stagger (cut stagger being the preffered to me for the price difference)

When has someone ran something different as of late which has caused an upset?

As far as I can see, this proposal is being put forward just for the sake of change rather than fixing an issue, as currently there is no issue?!

Edit: seeing it as a 4wd POV I can see alot disliking the use of staggers on a 4wd front axle - is this a genuine problem, or just a prefference though?

Last edited by PaulRotheram; 18-10-2013 at 11:35 AM.
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  #23  
Old 18-10-2013
Jamie B4 Jamie B4 is offline
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If it ain't broken dont fix it.

Can't really see the point of change.

Is there now a problem because of the level of grip? I saw more and more 4WD's running 2WD front last year but just clarify if this is allowed or not. 2WD fronts didn't seem too much of an issue
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  #24  
Old 18-10-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie B4 View Post
If it ain't broken dont fix it.

Can't really see the point of change.

Is there now a problem because of the level of grip? I saw more and more 4WD's running 2WD front last year but just clarify if this is allowed or not. 2WD fronts didn't seem too much of an issue
I can see the point to an extent. This years first ne regional, 9/10 of the a final were using old 2 or 3 row studs on front of 4wd. These were available from a shop somewhere. But were not on any websites, ebay or even manufactured anymore.

This was a little disheartening after spending a tonne on 'commercially available' tyres.
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  #25  
Old 18-10-2013
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If anything, I think a control compound is a better implication, rear axle included than an overall control tyre.

For the current controlled tyres you can get;

Schumacher compounds:
Blue
Yellow
Silver
Green

Ballistic buggy compounds:
Green
Blue
Pink
White

4 compounds from each manufacturer on the same tyre. Would it not just be easier having a dry and wet compound nominated and stick to that?

As for the proposals, I prefer the wording of:
23.11 At Sanctioned events two types of control tyre will be adopted for the driven axle on 2WD cars and the front and rear axle of 4WD cars. The choice of tyres for the non-driven axle on 2WD cars will be free, subject to conforming to rule 23.7. The Section committee will approve the choice of control tyres.

However, why take the choice of tyre away from the club? They know what works best. Or is this wording just meaning they will approve the clubs decision?
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  #26  
Old 18-10-2013
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The first rule in Phil's post #21 is fairly sensible.

Control tires are a gift from the RC gods. Think aobut how much stuff you'd have to carry around / store at home to make sure you always had THE tire?!?!?!?!?!?!

One of the reasons I stopped racing 1/8th was the lack of a control tire rule and carrying 4 hauler bags full of mounted tires got a bit silly!

Either leave the rule alone or go with the first one I say, might have to go and vote this year!
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  #27  
Old 18-10-2013
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I agree with you Roger.
I remember the days before control tyres. You were always chasing your tail.
Some meetings you could buy as many as 5 sets of different tyres and you still might not find the right ones and then they never got used again.
At least with the current rule some Schumacher yellows and Ballistic greens in your tyre bag will see you through. You can order/glue your tyres before the event and have more time for car set up etc. Setting your car up is difficult enough without adding another (very expensive) parameter.
As far as I can see Brushless and Lipo have saved the sport as we all have plenty of speed and power. The worry of not finishing your race because your cells have gone flat has gone. Plenty of people have come back because of this. Don't drive them away.
Lets not go back to the old days.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.
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  #28  
Old 18-10-2013
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Without a control tyre, you end up with one person finding some TR32's and blitzing the meeting. Or everyone spending ££££'s on all the options to try them all.

With control tyre levels any home advantage for club racers and cuts ££££'s for all.
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  #29  
Old 18-10-2013
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Lots of interesting and valid points raised here.

Personally when it comes to controlled tyres for driven axles fine, keeping the option free to run whatever tyre on the front of your 4wd no problem, providing they are commercially available.
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  #30  
Old 18-10-2013
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A couple of points.....

Firstly, this is the only two possible rule proposal's at this point in time. It was suggested all through last year by a large number of drivers that the tyre situation was starting to get out of hand.
For example: a few years ago it was either yellow/green mini or bb green, move to now and you carry the following: yellow/green/silver mini/stagger/cut stagger, bb green/white.

It is easy to say 'control compound' which would be ideal, but... Who will police it?
The brca are looking for ways to keep cost's for all at nationals to a sensible level, whilst still enjoying the awesome level of competition.
You will also have one thing less to worry about in terms of setup, you can bolt on the control tyre and not have to worry about trying 3/4 different types.

Also, this is for the national series... Unless regionals decide to opt using it, which means unless you compete or intend competing then it doesn't really effect you. Looking at the replies, not many competed this year?

Lastly, there is no real point moaning or giving ideas unless you... A, attend the agm. B, put in a rule proposal (but your too late).

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  #31  
Old 18-10-2013
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Personally I'd like the front tyres to be controlled just so I don't have to carry so many about.

I'm lucky enough to be assisted with tyres and if I really wanted to I could run new every run, however most of the time I don't think I need to.

However having been around for a fair while I can tell you now, like others have said, with no control tyres it will be horrendous, the amount you used to have to take just in case they worked and then something else came out was just crazy!

In the ideal world in my head qty, type and compound would all be controlled.

This year for 2wd I carried schue 2wd spikes in 3 compounds, staggers slim in 4 compounds, fat staggers in 3 compounds, bb spikes in 3 compounds, I then had for 4wd full fat schue fronts in 3 compounds, bb fronts in 3 compounds, then another load of 2wd fronts staggers and slim minis and bb 2wd fronts just in case! Now that was just stupid.

I like things to be fair and I don't think it is at the moment as if you have money tyres aren't an issue, let's make things as equal as possible for everyone.

I don't buy the "it gives me a tuning option" you can always make something work and to me as long as everyone is on the same so what.

Personally I would have liked, for nationals, 1 manufacturers tyres allowed at each meeting, so you could say schues at rounds 1 and 4, dBoots at 2 and 5 and BB's at the other 2, just as an example to open it to more makes and also so you do not need to carry so many tyres to each meeting.

E
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  #32  
Old 18-10-2013
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I kinda like the idea of a control tyre for front wheels. As Roger said, you wouldn't have to carry a boxload of tyres around and worry what the guy ahead of you was using.

Also, it would help people understand the set-up side of racing rather then concentrating on a quick fix change of tyre.

I would have to say YES
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  #33  
Old 18-10-2013
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I cannot think of any form of full scale Motorsport where there are such little rules regarding the types or quantity of tyre used?.

Many people have come back to the hobby as a result of the now "level playing field" regarding the electronics, having endless options on tyres and quantities allowed in this economic climate is almost cetainly going to drive these people away again.

Same tyres for everyone = less excuses as to why you were beaten, other than the guy who won is just better than you.
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  #34  
Old 18-10-2013
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i dont think control tyres on the front of a 2wd are a good idea, there are so many different types of chassis around to be catered for, and it could make it very hard for a less experienced racer to get their car set up to their liking on spikes, when the car might just work perfectly and be a lot more driveable on ribs or two row studs even. rear control tyres are good in a way as they will limit the overall grip available to everyone. personally i think it should be a limit on compound used rather than anything else, eliminating tyres that grip like hell for one race then go in the bin. one set of rears per meeting could really make things more interesting, but again could lead to people going all out to get a good run in an early heat and not bothering racing again until the finals. people will still carry boxes of the same tyre around, with different inserts, different numbers of spikes cut off, wheels different in weight or stiffness, etc. etc. no matter what you do, anything for that little performance advantage so it wont really create a level playing field or cut costs that much
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  #35  
Old 18-10-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgydiy View Post
i dont think control tyres on the front of a 2wd are a good idea, there are so many different types of chassis around to be catered for, and it could make it very hard for a less experienced racer to get their car set up to their liking on spikes, when the car might just work perfectly and be a lot more driveable on ribs or two row studs even. rear control tyres are good in a way as they will limit the overall grip available to everyone. personally i think it should be a limit on compound used rather than anything else, eliminating tyres that grip like hell for one race then go in the bin. one set of rears per meeting could really make things more interesting, but again could lead to people going all out to get a good run in an early heat and not bothering racing again until the finals. people will still carry boxes of the same tyre around, with different inserts, different numbers of spikes cut off, wheels different in weight or stiffness, etc. etc. no matter what you do, anything for that little performance advantage so it wont really create a level playing field or cut costs that much
Why don't they have 2 types of control tyre front and rear per class sorted ie Schuey mini spike front and rear and ballistic one compound suitable 2 and 4 wd per day two sets maximum from round one to keep costs down if there bald drive smoother
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  #36  
Old 18-10-2013
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I agree that control tyres reduce the costs, but this said I race rallyx nationals (not as many as I used to) and TBH I have never wished for a tyre rule, as I don't think type of tyre people are using makes a difference as at top level meetings most people will know the tyre they want to use for the track they are racing on, The BIG difference is the number of sets some racers use that others just can't afford to do.Now that I would love to see limited....

would removing the tyre rule at 10th meetings really change the field? most big meetings in the uk for tenth seem to be astro, what tyres are most going to use anyway? The only real downside I can see is the use of say minipins that could be one run wonders

But It would be good to see the market domination that schumacker have broken, Not against a UK company, just other firms may put more effort into creating tyres for UK tracks if they knew they had a chance of them being used at top level and winning top level national meetings in the uk.
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  #37  
Old 18-10-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racingdwarf View Post
I agree that control tyres reduce the costs, but this said I race rallyx nationals (not as many as I used to) and TBH I have never wished for a tyre rule, as I don't think type of tyre people are using makes a difference as at top level meetings most people will know the tyre they want to use for the track they are racing on, The BIG difference is the number of sets some racers use that others just can't afford to do.Now that I would love to see limited....

would removing the tyre rule at 10th meetings really change the field? most big meetings in the uk for tenth seem to be astro, what tyres are most going to use anyway? The only real downside I can see is the use of say minipins that could be one run wonders

But It would be good to see the market domination that schumacker have broken, Not against a UK company, just other firms may put more effort into creating tyres for UK tracks if they knew they had a chance of them being used at top level and winning top level national meetings in the uk.
It would not change the field but allow the average racer to afford to run on level playing field tbh one set of tyres would be better one compound one type I used to race in the open rule days and yes you had bags of tyres to compete ridiculous cost and most of all no fun which is what this sport is about if it was down to me I would say four row spike and three row fronts 4 wd and two row studs 2wd they work and last the day
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  #38  
Old 18-10-2013
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I feel ALL championship events should have a control tyre on all axels and also limited to two sets per meeting like tc racing this way it should be more even INMO it's a shame a a control wheel and insert can't be used to make it even more even.

At least this way it would take local knowledge away to a point of tyres

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  #39  
Old 18-10-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert digler View Post
It would not change the field but allow the average racer to afford to run on level playing field tbh one set of tyres would be better one compound one type I used to race in the open rule days and yes you had bags of tyres to compete ridiculous cost and most of all no fun which is what this sport is about if it was down to me I would say four row spike and three row fronts 4 wd and two row studs 2wd they work and last the day

Ahh the dark old days of my youth at 10th nationals cut and shut losi tyres for fwd fronts

I don't think it would get that silly again,as on astro you just wont need the choice
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  #40  
Old 19-10-2013
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Whilst this is for nationals only and need not apply at regional level or club it is wrong to assume that they don't tend to follow the lead of nationals. Most astro clubs in the UK don't actually have an official control tyre for club meets, but overwhelming majority run yellow minispikes exclusively in the dry.

Personally I'd say the optimum solution is to offer a limited selection as is currently the case for the rear.
Controlling compound is tricky unless it is possible to convince Schumacher/Ballistic to make the 'approved' tyre with the compound marked on the sidewall - but there are obvious cost implications there. As long a compound is marked with a paint blob its too hard to police.

I'd say rear as is, 4wd front Schu/Ballistic minispikes in the same compounds and 2wd front Staggers/Cuts/Spikes. I'd have preferred just 2 2wd front options but since in theory anyone who buys staggers could make their own cuts thats a bit pointless. But lets stick to one profile though.

That offers a good range of options for tuning for different cars without requiring a massive selection.
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