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#41
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Terry - you can't read and you either agreed with me in your replies or misunderstood, or just went off on a tangent. You have absolutely no clue sir, no clue at all.
If someone wants to start racing where would you suggest they go, oOple or BRCA website for info? I know what I think, I know I'm a helpful considerate guy - and I also see outside the box that you're stuck in. If you think I'm a wanker - call me a wanker - don't dick about. I call it like I see it - why you keep ranting on about 12th scale I've no idea. We don't overcharge cells in 10th off road, end of. I think you're completely out of touch, not sure if I mentioned that, but you are.
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If your PM doesn't at first succeed - try, try again. I'll reply in the end, honest. |
#42
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Jimmy, I don't know if you and Terry have underlying issues but what he has said is absolutely spot on.
Homologation has been heavily referred to in this thread and Terry's comments regarding that are right and I would suggest anyone who might want to post would read them before retreading old ground. |
#43
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If your PM doesn't at first succeed - try, try again. I'll reply in the end, honest. |
#44
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The BRCA are us the racers, the committee is voted in by us and the rules are voted in by us and voted out by us.
If you don't like something its important to act to change it. As someone who is involved with getting stuff homologated and has had products fail at a big expense to us, I still think its vitally important work that Paul Worsley does in his own time for no cost. Firstly the fees if any are completely negligible, any company looking to sell a product into UK can get homologated. The rules for motors especially are a cost saver to us the racer as they limit the factors that could make a motor super fast but have a very short lifespan, meaning that only the top sponsored guys could have any chance to win competitions like the bad old days. Batteries can be and are overcharged and at too high a C rate which causes dangers and reduces lifespan, again the voltage check keeps these factors in check. To have a race class you must have rules, these rules do need amending to keep up with market trends and technical improvements. To me Offroad is one of the few classes that is really open and fair. Go to a TC Spec race and you need a lawyer to get past Scrutineering. |
#45
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That's your opinion - I don't agree. I think he's wrong. But - that's my opinion.
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If your PM doesn't at first succeed - try, try again. I'll reply in the end, honest. |
#46
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Mark, Just because someone has a swollen or worn out damaged pack it does not mean they will get a FOC replacement. If it did we would be out of business. Team Orion batteries are used by many people without problems, yes there are issues and we try to deal with them fairly. Please stop attacking Orion unless you can prove no other brand has Battery failures? |
#47
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Please prove me wrong.
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If your PM doesn't at first succeed - try, try again. I'll reply in the end, honest. |
#48
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Okay.
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#49
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I've seen two go up, both indoors, both in unhommologated LiPo bags. In both case the bag bought time to get a bucket of sand to put out the fire. One was like the 1st link and wasn't closed properly, the ears weren't inside and the other in the second link was. Velcro does not like heat and fails as soon as it feels the heat.
http://www.rc-news.de/wp-content/upl...LiPo_Bag_2.jpg http://www.giantshark.co.uk/images/lipo%20bag.jpg
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o0ple Trader Feedback NE Venue's New & Old my space on YouTube CFR RCTV Channel Glenn Atterton BRCA 2005 1/10th Off-Road Veterans Champion LMP12 National Champion 2003/2004 / F3 class |
#50
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Believe me Keith, you are free to talk to me and raise one single point that Terry said and I'm fairly sure I'll rebuff it with common sense.
When someone starts ranting on about the safety at a 12th scale race - when I was clearly and solely talking about 10th off road modified, I guess you just have to let it go. Completely and utterly missing the point. Amazing!
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If your PM doesn't at first succeed - try, try again. I'll reply in the end, honest. |
#51
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There should be only two rules:
1) Commericially available in the UK. 2) Any racer should be able to challenge you for your item (motor, esc, lipo etc) for the UK list price of that item plus a small fee for the inconvience to you. So you can create a cheating motor if you want, but anybody you beat has the right to buy it off you so the advantage is temporary at best. Safety should also be covered by that if we want to - lipos that catch fire in normal use are hardly 'fit for purpose'. As for the box - What bugs me is that standard out of the box cars frequently don't fit in the box. WTF? I assume manufacturers make them to the maximum size the rules allow, and some variance occurs which means a few are over, but the result is a silly rule that requires club racers at big events to start filing axles like mad (Team drivers normally check this before the meeting!) when they weren't even trying to cheat in the first place! Anyway just remember rules aren't meant to make racing be fair, just to give the illusion that its fair.
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Yz4 - Yz2 DEX210 - Cobra 4210- DEX410 RC10 Team - Manta Ray - RC10T Mini Trophy - Blizzard - Wheely King Tz4 - GT24B BMRCC Emergency back-up race controller (but only if nobody better is available) |
#52
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I must say, I'm tempted to get a metal container for my cells. Yes a lipo sac buys a couple of seconds if it's spotted in time - I'm not sure at what point seeing the cells balloon is safer or having them hidden is safer. I don't fancy my hoiuse burning down though so biscuit tin it is!
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#53
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#54
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The brilliant thing about 10th off road now is that there's no such thing as a cheating motor - the cars are just too fast. We have the rules about traction control etc and sizes. Have at it and race.
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If your PM doesn't at first succeed - try, try again. I'll reply in the end, honest. |
#55
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I personally agree with Jimmy on this. Its like we are stuck in the 80's/90's. As for Batterys and motors in 1/10th off road. Speed advantages are hardly noticeable between a 10.5 Boosted and 6.5 Boosted so i personally think any motor should be acceptable. MY 2P worth
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#56
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You have to attend the AGM/EGM's for the sections to do this.
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o0ple Trader Feedback NE Venue's New & Old my space on YouTube CFR RCTV Channel Glenn Atterton BRCA 2005 1/10th Off-Road Veterans Champion LMP12 National Champion 2003/2004 / F3 class |
#57
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Some people and I'm not pointing at you here Keith, think it's all about the 1% at the very top who take it very very seriously (and cheat, and blow themselves up in onroad classes, apparently) but forget the vast majority of people who are into this HOBBY for fun. I'm into it for fun. I appreciate all that EFRA/IFMAR/BRCA etc has done and I'm always one of the last to thank the organisers of any race meeting - I mean, I am there till the end usually. I don't do any of this for any other reason than I enjoy it. I've given up a good living in computer games - an easy living where I could just sit all day and draw stuff. I worked 24 hours non-stop through to 1:30 this afternoon on various things - not for money but because I have passion. I want to promote the sport but insular thinking isn't going to help - I don't think like regular people because I'm slightly odd and I am there laying in a puddle, getting hit by cars, spending thousands of pounds on cameras for what - if you added up everything I've ever gained from R/C it wouldn't come close to what I've spent on it. I'm probably too passionate for my own good but there it is - you make of it what you will. Any time someone thanks me for getting them into R/C again or when I help people out, clubs etc - that is what it's about. Knowing you've done some good. If something good comes of this particular thread - then maybe one day some people will stop hating me, I don't know. I spoke outloud in this manner at Stotfold national last year - where I pointed out a need for an RRCi style series as people like me can't even race nationals or Euros anymore. What happend? People talked about it and things started to pick up. In the end we decided to try running a series and told the BRCA first as a way of courtesy and to inform of our intentions. This year the entries will be open - who knows how it'll go, or if it'll take off properly. I see people want to meet new friends from around the country / europe / world and love the atmosphere of a friendly less formal race meeting. The BRCA I believe do, or did say that the national series wasn't a family event - forgive me if I've mis quoted that, but I am the opposite. Come to the oOple invernational and you will only see smiles. When a young lad fell and broke his transmitter I organised a new one for him FOC straight away - his dad was happy enough to go at repairing the broken one in the end, but you know, helping people and making the sport bigger and better is what I love. The oOple Invernational and Series are non-profit and is totally and utterly seperate from me or this website financially. That's how it's always been and always will be. Terry can think what he likes at the end of the day and misquote me till his keyboard wears out - but I know I have more passion than him.
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#58
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So, all we need to do is get the BRCA members to change the offroad rules at the next AGM
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#59
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Homologation is a throwback from the days when we didn't have more power than grip (in general, across all classes). The last ''big'' meeting at the Ashby On-road track was a Schumacher BTCC round in 2007, and IIRC the pole time in 19t brushed would have gotten TQ at the 1999 TC Euros, thats the rate of progress. Anyway, I believe the construction rules and regs were put in place to stop someone concocting some sort of Frankenstein motor with neodymium magnets and some other exotic (powerful) materials to go faster than Joe Bloggs next to you on the rostrum.
Now, as Jimmy says, we have waaaaaaay more power than most can handle. Can't drive the car with a 6.5? Drop in a 7.5. Can't drive 2WD? Go 4WD. And to that line, I think homologation is a bit redundant to a degree. The fastest guys will still choose to race with whatever they think is the best, and will still top the timesheets. I think the mid-pack would be affected though, if faster stuff came through at a premium over what we have now, the manufacturers would get right on it and hike up the prices. With a higher price-tag, then Joe Racer may not be able to get the flavour of the month every time someone made a faster motor or LiPo, and we can all guess where that would be headed. Everything in RC has gotten more expensive. Cars, batteries, motors, ESCs etc. Thats a given, but you've really gotta ask yourself this. Are you doing RC to pick up sponsorships and plastic trophies, or to hang out with mates and have a good time? If its the latter....do you really need to spend as much as you have on all your gear? All my suppositions and opinions though. - Edit, just saw what Jimmy posted above, seems like a similar way of thinking to myself. Great minds and all that.
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Yellow wheels are faster - FACT Last edited by Garry; 07-02-2013 at 05:24 PM. Reason: Added sommat at the end |
#60
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LiPo sack, there are pro's and cons, the pro's are that a properly constructed LiPo sack is only there as a containment whilst you disconnect from charger etc. Cons, there are many, firstly unless they are almost airtight, pointless, you also can't see an early indicators of issue's and the big one is, who dictates if a LiPo sack is safe, I know that the manufacturer/distributor is responsible for any claims, but, if I were to buy a fire blanket it would have BS Kite marks and conform to ISO regulations, if I was a particularly fussy insurance assessor, I would be asking what these are constructed in accordance with. As for LiPo fires, only ones I have seen have been on the track. Most failures I have heard of whilst charging is user arror (wrong profile on charger). I also agree, LiPo's are far FAR inherently safer than the last couple of generations of NiMH batteries, they were lethal and the only 'guidance' was to charge at 1C. HOMOLOGATION If you have rules for construction then you have to homologate, which is only ever a concern for you if you are running at a BRCA controlled event. Once you have got past the national series then surely it is up to the organisers whether they follow the list. There is nothing stopping anyone buying cheap as long as they don't wish to participate in a National (as the rules are to govern the national series and guidance for all else). But, if one governing body has homologated a product I don't see a reason why another body has to, so if a battery is ROAR approved or BRCA approved, they should be legal for use at sanctioned events world wide. Now, the one confusion I have is that motors can be submitted at any time but batteries once a year, which kinda discourages getting them sorted. I do understand that when we were racing NiCD and NiMH's that we would have 6 packs and if someone brought out a bigger capacity cell then we would all really be forced to go buy them to keep up, but as Jimmy has said, nobody struggles now for duration, so I can't really see anyone jumping mid season because Team X has brought out a new battery. I think, for the beginner, it can look all very much daunting and expensive to get into it (although I know for a fact, in relative terms, it is far FAR cheaper than when I first started in 1989). I do understand the need for a BRCA and fully understand how it works etc, and as a club official, the only thing that interests me is the General Rules, as that is all we have to follow in the end. I think clubs have to decide as to how strict they are on the rest of the rules, to be honest. I won't turn someone away because their gear isn't on the list, as long as their car is safe and they fallow the general rules that is all I am interested in. I do feel that when you create rules due to 'safety' then you do leave yourself wide open for a swift kick in the nuts. If I am charging in out hall in a secured LiPo sack, and I have a failure, the sack doesn't contain the fire and it damages the table, blind and wall then the hall claims against us, we pass it on to the BRCA who will then pass it on to the manufacturer/distributor of the sack. Now, the insurance company can go for two groups, the BRCA for stipulating a product HAS to be used but then provide no regulations as to how they are built and the distributor, which is where it can come really sticky, as they are making a safety product that conforms to no regs. It is a hornets nest of dilema's. I do think though that this rules has come about due to members not paying attention to, LiPo cells are in everything, phones, laptops, hand held gaming devices etc, and I have only seen one pic of a lipo fire from a mobile phone.... So Jimmy, I see and agree with most of it, my problem is these days, that due to me not doing nationals, most of it I couldn't give a toss about
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