leagality, lipo and insurance - Page 4

Chrislong · #61 02-02-2007

Hi Mark,
I know, and its ridiculous. Your points sound valid and his defense/attack won't stand up to it so he goes to personal attack. His every post devalues the usefulness of this thread to any newcomer looking for informed advice.

Have you upset this guy on another forum?

jimmy · #62 02-02-2007

Can't we all just love each other?

DCM · #63 02-02-2007

In the end, this is an emotive as well as a motive subject. there are pro's to running LiPo and there are VERy BIG cons right at the moment with LiPo.

Until some form of regulation comes into place from the BRCA or EFRA or IFMAR, whats the point in arguing the toss. They have till the end of this year to devise a construction ruling for LiPo, as cells HAVE to be homologated once a year.

Before LiPo is allowed, then stuff that is for sale over the counter, should have a balancer and a voltage cut-off built in. Solid case design for impact protection, and a minimum current rating on the gel cell inside.

Till then, if a club allows LiPo, I could legitimately go and buy a 10C lipo gel pack, in a silver packet, use it without any voltage protection and blow it up on the track, let alone the fact that a lot of people who WILL buy these, won't have the correct charger either (and Mark, it does and has happened quite a few times). I know the BMFA has instigated some safety rulings for clubs now, they have to have a bucket of saline solution (salty water) to diffuse packs.

In the end, you two can argue the toss and swing handbags, but until construction rules are made, clubs shouldn't touch them, they have a responsibility to their members and members safety (and yes, I do know that Sub C's can go pop). And your BRCA insurance won't cover you for a pack fizzing on to you in the pits, only inside the track.

mark christopher · #64 02-02-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by losixxx

you seen to have that effect on people mark

dont you start LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrislong

Hi Mark,
I know, and its ridiculous. Your points sound valid and his defense/attack won't stand up to it so he goes to personal attack. His every post devalues the usefulness of this thread to any newcomer looking for informed advice.

Have you upset this guy on another forum?

probably

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy

Can't we all just love each other?

yes group hug!

Oscar · #65 02-02-2007

Ok, before this turns into a full handbags at 50 paces thread...............,

Whilst doing some background work for the recent oOple lipo review, I produced some discharge graphs. For interest I did an overlay of the ib4200 shv pack (blue line) against the lipo (red line). Both packs had had a similar number of charges from new, and this is at 20 A discharge.
Results are not what I expected, although what you cant see from this graph is the available "punch", which I suspect will be quite different owing to the internal resistance differences between each type of cell composition.

mark christopher · #66 02-02-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCM

In the end, this is an emotive as well as a motive subject. there are pro's to running LiPo and there are VERy BIG cons right at the moment with LiPo.

Until some form of regulation comes into place from the BRCA or EFRA or IFMAR, whats the point in arguing the toss. They have till the end of this year to devise a construction ruling for LiPo, as cells HAVE to be homologated once a year.

Before LiPo is allowed, then stuff that is for sale over the counter, should have a balancer and a voltage cut-off built in. Solid case design for impact protection, and a minimum current rating on the gel cell inside.

Till then, if a club allows LiPo, I could legitimately go and buy a 10C lipo gel pack, in a silver packet, use it without any voltage protection and blow it up on the track, let alone the fact that a lot of people who WILL buy these, won't have the correct charger either (and Mark, it does and has happened quite a few times). I know the BMFA has instigated some safety rulings for clubs now, they have to have a bucket of saline solution (salty water) to diffuse packs.

In the end, you two can argue the toss and swing handbags, but until construction rules are made, clubs shouldn't touch them, they have a responsibility to their members and members safety (and yes, I do know that Sub C's can go pop). And your BRCA insurance won't cover you for a pack fizzing on to you in the pits, only inside the track.

personally dont agree with balancer or cut off as
1/ many speedos now have it
2/ one balancer for £25 will do all your cells so whay have one for every pack individually, plus how would you make it work? a charge plug and a dis charge plug? thats asking for more trouble,
the main thing here as with anything is educating the end user!

DCM · #67 02-02-2007

Mark, I have countless ESC's, onlt one, at the moment, is LiPo ready, and then it don't autodetec the cell count, so you still have a fundamental issue in that you MUST select the cut-off point, I don't know anyone localy who has a LiPo cell enabled ESC, the newest of the new are LiPo enabled. But those who want the cells (club racers) tend to be at the bottom of the ESC pool, usualy running second hand ESC's.

As much as education is the correct phrase, you have to look at it from another point of veiw, there are a lot of people out there who turn up at meetings, and no matter how much you educate them, they still do it wrong. You then throw in a LiPo cell, which HAS to have a LiPo profiled charger and either a voltage cut-off or lipo enabled ESC that HAS to be set correctly, your just asking for trouble.

Not trying to aruge the toss or create ill feeling and do see where you are coming from. But I am a great beleiver in Murphys first law of idiocy, if it can be done wrong, you will always find someone who CAN do it wrong.

jimmy · #68 02-02-2007

Those same people probably drove to the meeting - a far more dangerous activity. You can't stop me from driving to work because some numpty crashed once. If you are going to use things improperly in any respect then you're asking for trouble.

You really need the proper equipment yep. I used three ESC's with the LiPo and none had protection, but I knew not to run the cells flat. Everyone who buys a LiPo would know that since it tells you clearly. Whether they act on that adivce or not is up to them.

DCM · #69 02-02-2007

I agree, but then it is also up to the clubs/series organisers/governing body to sort out regulations. I am not against them, it is just, at the moment, way to many possibilities that do make me a little nervous about them.

When a correct charger/ESC/LiPo are used, fine, but unlike any other change in RC Carsover the last 15-20 years, none has needed you to run out and NEED to get new stuff to use it safely.

mark christopher · #70 02-02-2007

dcm if you cover postage each way ill send you a trakpower pack and charger to use for a month!

Cockerill · #71 02-02-2007

What is the purpose of this thread?

Looking at the title it is about the legality of Lipo and insurance.

We know that using Lipo has no effect on BRCA insurance.

We know that Lipo is NOT legal at BRCA Sanctioned events (In sections that have adopted EB rules), this means Regionals, Nationals and EoE Finals for 1/10th Off-Road.

Is it time to close this thread so the facts don't get clouded again. Open a new thread for the benefits of Lipo, how to use them, etc

bigred5765 · #72 02-02-2007

once again tom seems to be the voice of reason and sense, why is it that a teenager seems to bring a valid point, and you guys cant,without fisty cuffs
come on guys take a chill pill
group hug
next thread

DCM · #73 02-02-2007

I only offer the 'other side' of the argument, but not in a LiPo is evil sort of way.

I have three LiPo enabled chargers but only one ESC (18th scale) so will decline the kind offer (again) Mark.

mark christopher · #74 02-02-2007

can send a voltage cut off too, but use yoor common sense and dont run them flat!

mark christopher · #75 02-02-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cockerill

What is the purpose of this thread?

Looking at the title it is about the legality of Lipo and insurance.

We know that using Lipo has no effect on BRCA insurance.

We know that Lipo is NOT legal at BRCA Sanctioned events (In sections that have adopted EB rules), this means Regionals, Nationals and EoE Finals for 1/10th Off-Road.

Is it time to close this thread so the facts don't get clouded again. Open a new thread for the benefits of Lipo, how to use them, etc

that was why i started the thread!

Cockerill · #76 02-02-2007

So let this thread die its death as its purpose has been served, and not post incorrect information as facts.

If you want to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of Lipo see here:

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2231