BRCA EB Battery Regs Announced

[spenner]

Here we go again.......

Don't get me wrong i see Lipo or whatever else they are testing ??? as the future in cells etc.... BUT!!!!

Why moan about the RULES when they was there in the first place and the manufacturers are the one's who haven't followed them ????

If they had followed the current size reg's (for sub C cells) would there be a problem ????
IF they change the rules to suit, then the BRCA which is a a tad pole in the pond of R/C would be diff to the rest!! Meaning anyone who attends international meetings would need diff cells.

Why don't the people who purchased the cells take them back and say they are not fit for the purpose ??? (Purpose being to use for race meetings)
Guess you can't as you knowingly purchased them even though they weren't legal.....

Sounds harsh i suppose but i can see all this moaning only leading to those at the top telling us all too do it ourselves!!! And i for one am thankfull of the job they do.

So, looks like we are all converting our cars to run stick lipo. Or we buy the Schumacher!!

[Northy]

Originally Posted by DCM

I think, for regional racing, the regions would just have to use common sense, just might leave the EOS finals a bit low on numbers.

There are only certain rules that a Regional series can decide nout to use, and cells is not one of them.........

As someone who is actually on the BRCA committee, if you ask my advice I'd say don't buy anything until the official (not the touring car) list comes out.

G

[ben]

Originally Posted by spenner

Or we buy the Schumacher!!

Good call!!!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by discostu

thats typical of the brca trying to kill a class of racing so if you run a d4,b4, 501, bj4 worlds, x11, yokomo b max, yokomo bx or any saddle pack 4wd car you will not be aloud to race a brca meeting unless you spend mega money on unrelible exploding nimh cells and all the cycle crap that goes with them that figures any way what if the clear heat shrink was removed from the track power lipo saddles do the fit the dimentions then

stu rand

no they are 1mm over size end to end with the heat shrink off.

Originally Posted by bondy

Makes me laugh and cry at the same time !

Saddle pack lipos must be no more in length combined than a normal lipo pack.

Yes it probably would if you cut one end off the case on one of them ????? -- but there are now 4 ends not 2 ! If the cells inside are a set length then yes there is going to be a few mm extra plastic 2 lots to be precice. Its not rocket science here its basic engineering and understanding. So trakpower " the inovators the ones who took the risk reaaly and changed the way we race I think will be a bit P***** off ! And frankley I wouldnt blame them

3mm Guys Come on Which muppet made that rule up ?? and why ??


ps I havent bought any yet and by the looks of it will anybody now !

id not blame em too

Originally Posted by Tim Ward

Isn't the BRCA supposed to represent OUR views??? I say we on-mass write/email to the BRCA EB and let them know how wrong they are re rules that effectively outlaw Trakpower saddles!

wont do any good im affraid! best that could happen is for off road to drop the EB for battery lists!

Originally Posted by neiloliver

I dont think that being on the Touring car list means that they will be on the final list. Some may be removed due to the side wire/dimension. It also depends on if they are officially submitted for approval. We will need to wait for the final list to come out before buying anything.

I see 2009 as a Shakedown year for Lithium Polymer... Even if all the packs on the TC list did make it to the final list then that is a LOT of packs.. and they wont all be good in terms of cycle life, durability etc..

On the trackpower saddles... Making a pack that is longer than three Cs cells side by side was always going to be on a sticky wicket... but all battery design is a compromise and I am sure they were forced down that route by the efficiency of using a cell side they had already tooled.

neil take the cell out of the case there under size, likewise take your solder bars off the Nimh saddles and they fit the dimensions (ie you fit the bars you have made the CELL bigger than the dimensions, same as by adding a case)

Originally Posted by ashleyb4

Try and get them in you b44 as far as im aware they wont fit in anyway without modification so the EB are making the manafacture change the sizes so that they will fit in all cars with minimal modification.

A

yes they do, search on oople

Originally Posted by spenner

Here we go again.......

Don't get me wrong i see Lipo or whatever else they are testing ??? as the future in cells etc.... BUT!!!!

Why moan about the RULES when they was there in the first place and the manufacturers are the one's who haven't followed them ????

If they had followed the current size reg's (for sub C cells) would there be a problem ????
IF they change the rules to suit, then the BRCA which is a a tad pole in the pond of R/C would be diff to the rest!! Meaning anyone who attends international meetings would need diff cells.

Why don't the people who purchased the cells take them back and say they are not fit for the purpose ??? (Purpose being to use for race meetings)
Guess you can't as you knowingly purchased them even though they weren't legal.....

Sounds harsh i suppose but i can see all this moaning only leading to those at the top telling us all too do it ourselves!!! And i for one am thankfull of the job they do.

So, looks like we are all converting our cars to run stick lipo. Or we buy the Schumacher!!

no wanting to state the obvious there were NO rules for lipo

[DaveG28]

Ok, so, can anyone confirm the following for current Lipo (eg there is a month left for new ones to appear!):

All Trakpowers are illegal, stick and saddle, as they are not factory glued?
There are currently no legal saddles in existence?

Spenner, personally I am not annoyed at my cells being illegal, I bought them before any Lipo were legal because I knew the winter tracks I'd go to would allow them. What annoys me is I have a Bmax which can't be converted to take stick, a 501x which cannot be converted to take stick. At least, not without some combination of new chassis/drivetrain/bodyshell! Unlike apparently the pred, so your ok!

That's my issue, IF no saddles appear in time, we're wiping some cars out with this!

Ash, not sure about the B44 but for the Bx the trakpower is a direct fit, the Bmax just needs Bx battery posts (no new holes need drilling) and the 501x needs b44 battery posts (or filing down stock posts). That's 3 cars that don't need a dremel (sorry Mark!) or drill, just about £5 of parts!! It will take MUCH more to make them take stick packs!

[DaveG28]

Actually, couple of other thoughts:

1. When will any list appear, I'm waiting on it before going touring!!
2. This Saddle rule has another issue. Let's say someone submits one just before the end of Jan. How long to then get it in the shops?in what quantity? Will all who want them be able to in time for the season?

[DCM]

Originally Posted by Northy

There are only certain rules that a Regional series can decide nout to use, and cells is not one of them.........

As someone who is actually on the BRCA committee, if you ask my advice I'd say don't buy anything until the official (not the touring car) list comes out.

G

that is fair comment, but when you got a region where lots run touring car, or have fully converted to lipo, you can't turn them away and have no championship can you, although they would be made fully aware that they couldn't use them at the BRCA finals.

[Northy]

Originally Posted by DCM

that is fair comment, but when you got a region where lots run touring car, or have fully converted to lipo, you can't turn them away and have no championship can you, although they would be made fully aware that they couldn't use them at the BRCA finals.

You could let them race but they shouldn't be able to score points

G

[DCM]

I don't know of many who still got NiMH's locally, maybe the one or two who do a national, but everyone else, LiPo, and lots of them have Trakpower saddle packs, then as an umbrella service for racers, we can't turn them away, can we.

The BRCA have left a lot of people in a position where, in good faith (and I know you are going to say, shouldn't of bought them before the rules were made), mainstream lipo packs, to find now, they are useless, I can't see them selling them, or their saddle pack 4wd cars, they will just carry on, so we either get a poorly supported regional series, or be sensible about things.

The EB have only gone and alienated the club racers basically, for ditching duff and dangerous cells, thats how I see it. They would of given a slighly longer dimension for a saddle pack, and catered for everyone. But they have been short sighted in what they have done.

The BRCA is suppose to be there to service the needs of the RC Car community, not just the top level of racer, and by doing what they have done, they have ignored the wants of the mass of local and regional level racer.

[Northy]

And as NE regional rep, if someone with an 'illegal' pack of lipo's beats someone else with a 'legal' set of lipos/cells who gets it in the neck?

Plus it could go as far as someone suing the BRCA as the rules have not been upheld.

If the series is a BRCA series it has to run to BRCA rules. Sorry.

G

[niggs98]

as much as i hate to admit it Northy is right, i know that everyone has already brought there lipos dispite countless people saying dont untill the list is anounced just like they all did last year with 4200's and all moaned then dispite it being very well documented online on nearly every forum that i saw, hell i even have a pack of 3200 track powers, thats life i brought mine knowing full well that they might or might not be legal, then had the great fun of modifying my car into 2 or 3 different layouts so that they would fit and posted pics and how to's with it, as soon as i found that they more than likely wernt gonna be legal i changed my car over to stick pack so that it opened up my options as to what i could use. if someone brings out a saddlepack lipo that is legal and fits my car without modification then i will gladly run it as will most other people but i have to say, the brca is working to rules and regulations that have been around for long enough, ok they have to be modified slightly to accomodate lipo but it is the manufactures who have known the sub c measurments for more than long enough so why should the brca get it in the neck when it has stuck to what was and is the rules. i agree that 2 extra end caps shouldnt make a difference but at the same time those 2 extra end caps also require a lot of cars to be modified to fit them so who is really in the wrong ?????????? rant over i shall hide back underneath my stone

[terry.sc]

Didn't we all go through this just after the AGM? Anyone who already uses lipo saddles for their racing won't suddenly find them illegal in the same race series unless they change their rules. As usual just like nimhs last year wait to see what's legal.

Originally Posted by discostu

thats typical of the brca trying to kill a class of racing

No. As the BRCA chairman often states, you are the BRCA. The committee are there to organise racing based on the rules the majority of ordinary members voted for at the AGM. If you feel it will kill the class of racing then blame your fellow racers who didn't go and vote against the rule.
The ordinary members voted to adopt the same rules as the rest of the world, seems a sensible decision at face value.

unrelible exploding nimh cells and all the cycle crap that goes with them

A lot of people have been surprised with the reliability, performance and lack of maintenance needed with todays cells over the old IBs. No one can complain about cell reliability if they are going to stick with Intellect cells.

[spenner]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

no they are 1mm over size end to end with the heat shrink off.

id not blame em too


wont do any good im affraid! best that could happen is for off road to drop the EB for battery lists!

and it actually outlaws ALL trakpower lipo as they are not factory glued!!


neil take the cell out of the case there under size, likewise take your solder bars off the Nimh saddles and they fit the dimensions (ie you fit the bars you have made the CELL bigger than the dimensions, same as by adding a case)


yes they do, search on oople



no wanting to state the obvious there were NO rules for lipo

Hence the reason i put rules for Sub C, surely thats a good guidline!!!! It was obvious they wouldn't fit when they tried them in various cars!!!

Why not all get together and start your own Lipo 'Saddle' section in the BRCA ??? Other sections have done this to go there own way... I remember racing 10th Trucks in the late 90's, always had to be the first section to run the latest stuff. Funnily that section died after around 3-4 years when everyone got sick of buying stuff to be competitive, only to be unable to use it in other classes.

[Cockerill]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

As the BRCA chairman often states, you are the BRCA. The committee are there to organise racing based on the rules the majority of ordinary members voted for at the AGM. If you feel it will kill the class of racing then blame your fellow racers who didn't go and vote against the rule.

WRONG

You can't play that card on this one. The racers turned up to the AGM, with rules proposed to get what we wanted. Unfortunately our best knowledge was not enough and we are left with what we have now, which is NOT what the majority wanted.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by bondy

Guys Come on Which muppet made that rule up ?? and why ??

Blame ROAR. The dimensions were already used in ROARs rules for saddle packs, ROAR then added a dispensation to make Trakpowers legal. EFRA has also adopted the same rules with the same dimensions. Ignoring the dimension problem, Trakpowers wouldn't be legal even if they fit the dimensions as the packs aren't factory glued.

Plenty of alternatives though from SMC, Maxamps and Reedy, although whether they are submitted or whether newer alternatives are submitted we won't know until the list is released.

[DaveG28]

Originally Posted by spenner

Hence the reason i put rules for Sub C, surely thats a good guidline!!!! It was obvious they wouldn't fit when they tried them in various cars!!!

Why not all get together and start your own Lipo 'Saddle' section in the BRCA ??? Other sections have done this to go there own way... I remember racing 10th Trucks in the late 90's, always had to be the first section to run the latest stuff. Funnily that section died after around 3-4 years when everyone got sick of buying stuff to be competitive, only to be unable to use it in other classes.

Can you explain the logic? Sorry to pick on you but your the one who's pointed this out!!! How are we asking for an advantage? The existing saddles are no better than the stick packs which are allowed?? I'm not asking to be allowed to run the latest stuff ahead of you, I'm asking to be allowed to run what you can choose to run in the pred, Lipo, not better than you can run!?

What's unfair about my point of view on this?

To clarify (and I think I differ from Mark on this?) I can see why you could argue it's a bad precedent to allow a battery which requires modifying cars to run (not that it does in most cases I think?) or base the size on the old cells, except in doing so it is wiping several cars out of competitiveness potentialy! If there would definitely be an alternative legal cell I wouldn't gave as big a problem with it, although tbh it still would seem a bit harsh making all trakpower runners (including stick) buy new cells!

[DaveG28]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

Blame ROAR. The dimensions were already used in ROARs rules for saddle packs, ROAR then added a dispensation to make Trakpowers legal. EFRA has also adopted the same rules with the same dimensions. Ignoring the dimension problem, Trakpowers wouldn't be legal even if they fit the dimensions as the packs aren't factory glued.

Plenty of alternatives though from SMC, Maxamps and Reedy, although whether they are submitted or whether newer alternatives are submitted we won't know until the list is released.

Are those cells hard cased and within the dimensions?

[discostu]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

Didn't we all go through this just after the AGM? Anyone who already uses lipo saddles for their racing won't suddenly find them illegal in the same race series unless they change their rules. As usual just like nimhs last year wait to see what's legal.No. As the BRCA chairman often states, you are the BRCA. The committee are there to organise racing based on the rules the majority of ordinary members voted for at the AGM. If you feel it will kill the class of racing then blame your fellow racers who didn't go and vote against the rule.
The ordinary members voted to adopt the same rules as the rest of the world, seems a sensible decision at face value.
A lot of people have been surprised with the reliability, performance and lack of maintenance needed with todays cells over the old IBs. No one can complain about cell reliability if they are going to stick with Intellect cells.

i can see where your coming from we are all the brca and our votes are what bring these rules into play but there seems to be a lack of common sense when it comes to lipo saddle packs like i mentioned in my first poist on this thread if you are running a car like the d4, b44, bj4, b max, bx, xx4, 501x you will NOT be able to race using a lipo saddle pack for two reasons none of the current cells fit the dimmensions so they cant be used and the cells that fit the dimensions wont fit the car so what the brca have done in my opion is pretty much distroy modern 4wd racing in the uk by basicly pinalising at least 6 diffrent manufactures cos the cells dont fit where is the logic in that.

oh and it shouldn't be down to the manufactures to change there car designs or the battery designs on currently avalible products which have been avalible for a couple of years just because the brca have now writen a un reasonable rule.

and as for the dead line for companys like track power, reedy, smc who make saddle pack cells 31st jan is ridiculus.

stu

[spenner]

Originally Posted by DaveG28

Can you explain the logic? Sorry to pick on you but your the one who's pointed this out!!! How are we asking for an advantage? The existing saddles are no better than the stick packs which are allowed?? I'm not asking to be allowed to run the latest stuff ahead of you, I'm asking to be allowed to run what you can choose to run in the pred, Lipo, not better than you can run!?

What's unfair about my point of view on this?

Im confused ????

Never said anyone was looking for any advantage!! (after all we can all buy the same cells)

Yes i can run Lipo in the Pred, BUT that is with me chopping the chassis to bits. Sticking filler in holes etc... etc . I am pretty sure i can get them to fit in the BMax by using the same methods.

All i am saying is a Rule has been made End of the matter... For the reason's above. I DON'T want to have to chop, fill my chassis to get cells to fit. Instead i will wait for cells which are made to correct dimensions to be made and then i will run them. (I have been told the REEDY lipo Saddles are right size ????) £109 a pack though (so i was informed)

Hope that clears it up.

[Northy]

Do nimh cells not exist anymore then?

G