Is it vintage

[Backforfun]

Hi!

What are the rules on vintage upgrades ? What can you do to a car ? For example if I put X11 gears in an old pred I'm not running a vintage car ? And surely part or the fun is keeping them safe etc

I'm not saying I don't agree just interested in the rules ? If that's the case why can't I put an old she'll on my X11 and call it vintage ? As an old pred can be upgraded

[fidspeed]

At the moment vintage is mainly driven by the ICONIC RC team and there classes are age derived

Personally I have no problem. With using updated gears to keep a predator running I'm currently looking at retrofitting tc3 gear sets to keep our running otherwise the cars are rendered useless cbecause gears are no longer available
Some purists will offer the opposite opinion

My viewpoint having attended the last iconic revival and enjoyed it immensely was that it was a bit too competitive and was more about choosing the best weapon to win with rather than taking part with whatever you have
Im lucky I have plenty to choose from some are not so fortunate
Dave

[Backforfun]

I guess tc3 parts are retro anyway lol

[J'MM'N]

To me vintage racing has started to get a bit too serious, but I guess that's peoples natural instinct when racing.

I'm more for keeping car with parts available at the time. Others prefer to use more modern parts to be more competitive, whilst others use parts just to keep their car up and running.

[fidspeed]

im in agreement with last post

im not against modern electronics though just makes things a bit easier

Vintage/ICONIC is a fantastic concept I really enjoy it for me a poor driver I love to see the Old cars of my youth being driven ,im not so sure about the competitive side it needs careful handling to keep its appeal for the majority of enthusiasts

good luck to all involved roll on iconic revival 2017

dave

[Dyna]

This is a problem that all vintage series face at some point unfortunately, if you really wanted to stick 100% to the cut off dates.

For example, Losi XX-4 Worlds are regulary used in the pre-1998 class ( which the original XX-4 fits in as it was released in 1997). But the first XX-4 Worlds wern't released until 1999, so in theory shouldnt be racing in any vintage series of pre-1998. So how do you police this without getting too anal about which part was on what model ? If you did, you'd suddenly find nearly all of the XX-4's running in every Vintage series would suddenly be banned, as most of them seem to be Worlds Editions. Scumacher Fireblades & TTech Predators are other examples, ive seen both that are mostly later models that are over the 1998 cut off.

But you can kind of get away with that technicality if the parts used are just one or two years newer as the differences arent that massive, and any advantage they have is relatively minor. Better to have them running than not i think.

The biggest problem ( for me, anyway ) are vintage cars with lots of modern cars parts on them when originals are still available.

I fully understand that when spare parts just arent available at all you should run whatever you can to make the car mobile ( like B4 gearbox internals on Cobra's for example as Mardave originals are completely unavailable, or newer gearbox internals on Preds ), but ive seen so many 'vintage' cars ( including a good few that run at the Iconic series ) running modern parts - new big-bore shocks & springs, CVD's, modern hubs and caster blocks, diffs & gears etc etc - when original parts & spares ARE available that it surely kind of defeats the spirit of the event ?

Just because the orignal gearbox and driveshafts wont handle brushless 6.5 and Lipos and you wont be competitive without modern parts isnt really an excuse in my opinion.

To counter this a little at my own club, Caldicot, did bring in a motor and speedo limit into our latest vintage series which seems to have worked quite well to save old gearboxes and level the playing field.

Standard speedo settings - no turbo or advanced timing - and only 10.5 motors, which seems to have worked out ok. Some people are annoyed they cant run 6.5's, Turbo & Timing in their cars that blast around almost like a modern buggy, but overall most people seem to agree with it and stay roughly in the spirit of vintage racing.

And thats the key. The Spirit of the Vintage. Period car. Period parts. Fun, lower speeds, worse handling than modern and use as close to an original car as you can run.

And big-bores ? Really ?? Sigh....

[KRob]

The water is muddied now with re-releases.

I really wanted to be able to race a rear motor Optima. But I wasn't comfortable doing it with 32dp and no slipper clutch so the re-re is great for me. Is that in the spirit of vintage? I think it depends what you're looking for from a class.

Same for brushless/lipo. I started with brushed in my vintage cars but they are just too much work now (especially in 4wd) and I don't want to be skimming out my vintage brushed motors - so they sit in the cars on the shelves and the ones I run have brushless.

Things have definitely moved on since the first Iconic meetings with more and more people so it's always going to evolve. Personally it's about driving the old cars for me. If I'm at a meeting then yes I will race people with the aim of beating them but it still has to be fun.

Wasn't the TC3 a 1999 release which puts it outside the recongnised vintage of '98 anyway

[J'MM'N]

Agree with having the choice of using modern electrics.

Also don't mind slippers, just because it takes some of the load off transmissions and as many re-re cars come fitted.

Would like to see 2" wheels and tyres used more in the early groups. RC10 and Cat XLS already have huge advantages, cant see why they need modern 2.2", to beat the likes of Tamiya Frogs, Boomerangs etc, etc.

I'm sure Revival 2017, will be another huge success

[fidspeed]

think most of us agree "vintage" is an excellent series but without careful handling will it become a victim of its own success ?

with the re-release of shumachers XLS you vould have a one make series !!

if schumacher make enough and spares lots of old tired cars will gain a new lease of life

I like idea of motor limits to protect older gears from destruction
for me winning isn't the purpose its taking part and envying other nice toys
dave

[daz75]

Personally I don't think re reps should the allowed in the vintage racers with real vintage cars

[Ashlandchris]

My issue when I ran my original optima Ina couple of vintage heats a year or so ago was that there were a few re re rc10s with unlimited spares, going like the clappers and one took out one of my front wishbones. I was running a 17.5 to keep speed sensible.
I don't object to re re at all, and now have the re re optima so I can shelf my original, but when you have a mixed heat it can put the old ones at risk.
Mind you, so does my driving

[peetbee]

As Dyna mentioned, at Caldi we've done a motor limit, but also control tyre of Schumacher minispikes (or Schumacher blocks if 2.2" wheels aren't available) and that seems to have helped.
ReRe cars are allowed but there doesn't seem to be a performance advantage with modern parts.
Other than the 4wd making the 2wds lives a bit harder as we mix classes!

[Chillout47]

What's wrong with vintage electronics too? batteries I understand, but decent brushed motors and speedos are readily available. Its like when F1 lost the V10's, it just doesn't seem right to me. Don't you all miss the whine of a well tuned 12x3 at the end of the straight?? I ran brushed electrics at the 2014 Iconic meeting in my B3 and brushless cars were just breezing past, but my car sounded a whole lot better.

[Retro RC]

Originally Posted by Chillout47

What's wrong with vintage electronics too? batteries I understand, but decent brushed motors and speedos are readily available. Its like when F1 lost the V10's, it just doesn't seem right to me. Don't you all miss the whine of a well tuned 12x3 at the end of the straight?? I ran brushed electrics at the 2014 Iconic meeting in my B3 and brushless cars were just breezing past, but my car sounded a whole lot better.

Certainly don't miss the armature letting go at full noise at the end of the straight lol

[peetbee]

Originally Posted by Chillout47

What's wrong with vintage electronics too? batteries I understand, but decent brushed motors and speedos are readily available.

No one's interested in the maintenance you have to do on brushed motors now and brush/com wear seems to be accelerated when using lipos.
People grumbled about having to get a 10.5 for our series, they'd probably have not bothered if we'd told them they had to go and buy a new speed controller as well rather than using one from their pitbox.

[Novice]

It was the electrics side of the hobby that was the biggest let down in the 80's so running the vintage buggies on more reliable electrics just seems common sense to me , but I do see the argument for vintage means vintage but the reality is very different and running a vintage buggy with a mild brushless system and a battery that lasts for nearly a whole race meeting is awesome .

[Backforfun]

May be there could be room to have a true vintage class and a super vintage or do you think this would be messing to much with a class that's already doing well

[peetbee]

I think there could be a danger of diluting classes

[daz75]

I'm sure the last time I read about vintage class you got more "points" for running brushed etc

[fidspeed]

not sure about points daz

but definitely more street cred (unless your wearing a vintage shell suit and twatty haircut to match while on the rostrum

dave