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View Poll Results: Would you like to see a protected trade section?
No - I want it free always 11 11.70%
Yes - £5 one off fee would be fine 27 28.72%
Yes - Let me pay £5 a year to keep it safe 52 55.32%
Yes - but I don't want to pay owt 8 8.51%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 01-04-2013
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The thing is I've got 2300 posts, I'm race director for Bury and I've got the moderator account for the Bury section. At least in the NW I'm getting well known, and easy enough to track down.

That said I've sold the grand total of 2 items on Oople since 2009, so why would I pay even a fiver to have sales access? Its easier for me just to sell elsewhere.

I'm sure other people like myself would just stick to trackside sales etc - which means less trade on Oople.

So without paying I'm not a trusted person - even though I do all the other things?

Not saying the idea is wrong - just that some people probably don't need to prove themselves......
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  #42  
Old 01-04-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpi_guy View Post
Just my view, paying a fiver to scam someone of £250 wouldn't really put someone off I think
I had the same thought. I have sold and brought items on the forum and the for sale secton is one of the best things. And to be honest i would pay the £5 to access the trade secton.

But what i fear is that the scammers will pay £5 have a trustworthy badge. Scam a few people in a hour and make of with £250. Then the problems not solved everybody complains and demand there £5 back and your back here.

I remember the first thing I brought of the site was from somone with a small number of posts but in his infomation he i noticed he was chairman of a club, i looked on club website and the names matched. That was enough for me to go on that the source was reliable.

The whole problem with the with the trade section it works on trust and so any sort of protection would have to be trustworty to stop scaming.

Banning gift payments wont sove anything there will be no control over the buyer sending the money. To properly police it you would need to intgrate paypal into the site to have any sort of control.
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  #43  
Old 01-04-2013
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The fact I've already said YOU would be a trusted member - but then you complain about it shows you've not really read the thread properly
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  #44  
Old 01-04-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burty248 View Post
I had the same thought. I have sold and brought items on the forum and the for sale secton is one of the best things. And to be honest i would pay the £5 to access the trade secton.

But what i fear is that the scammers will pay £5 have a trustworthy badge. Scam a few people in a hour and make of with £250. Then the problems not solved everybody complains and demand there £5 back and your back here.

I remember the first thing I brought of the site was from somone with a small number of posts but in his infomation he i noticed he was chairman of a club, i looked on club website and the names matched. That was enough for me to go on that the source was reliable.

The whole problem with the with the trade section it works on trust and so any sort of protection would have to be trustworty to stop scaming.

Banning gift payments wont sove anything there will be no control over the buyer sending the money. To properly police it you would need to intgrate paypal into the site to have any sort of control.

Again - whilst I can't guarentee anything in this world, I have banned this creep just from seeing him register. If you think someone can pay £5 and suddenly be 'trusted' you're wrong - that's not what I'm talking about.
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  #45  
Old 01-04-2013
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I think the feedback system as it is isn't good enough as I have sold 4 items on here and bought 1 but I havnt received any feedback, that I can see?????
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  #46  
Old 01-04-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy View Post
Again - whilst I can't guarentee anything in this world, I have banned this creep just from seeing him register. If you think someone can pay £5 and suddenly be 'trusted' you're wrong - that's not what I'm talking about.
Ok say you stop this one guy from scamming anyone, what if he gets his mate in on it and the process starts again, then what? I just dont see how a fee can stop scammers. Ebay has fees but still has scammers. But the fees are for using ebay and I doubt any is for actually anti scamming measures.
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  #47  
Old 01-04-2013
Shaun_TLR Shaun_TLR is offline
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The fact is, although not perfect, the for sale forum here is no better or worse than any other communities trading section.

All mods like to think their members are honest and shouldn't need policing - and this is correct for 99% of the members here I'm sure. As ever its the minority that spoil it.

I buy a lot through people and I consider the post count and how long they've been a member. I also read a few posts to get a feel of their attitude and whether its someone I want to be dealing with.

No matter what measures you put in place, if the guys intent on lining his pockets, the best you can do is make it awkward and slow him down, as they always win in the end.

I think Jimmy's problem is the whole "gift payment" thing. The simple solution I think is to ban gift(however I think it will still happen) and then if the PayPal fees are paid, they effectively police the transaction for you.

Ultimately the buck stops with the buyer. If someone PMS you offering something for a bargain price, surely you have to think "if its too good to be true.........it prob is".
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  #48  
Old 01-04-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burty248 View Post
I just dont see how a fee can stop scammers.
A fee wouldn't. I would.
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  #49  
Old 01-04-2013
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Default difficult.

I have bought and sold LOADS on here, facebook, ebay and other places.
I do loads of sales and purchases this way. A bit of a hobby almost i think.

I have been scammed on facebook(lost £100), scammed on ebay, losing various amounts and various ways of it happening. But i have not been scammed on oople. I have had a couple of items i purchased never arrive, but thats not the sellers fault, its the crap postal service, even with a trackig number things dont always get where there sent!!!!!

I like to think i am pretty security/scam aware, by my job/training/history i am like this, but you can still be cought out. NO one can escape the seasoned scammer. Thankfully there few and far between and with a few extra checks and hoops to jump through, the normal scammers as mentioned will give up and move onto another easy target.

I like the idea of a "badge of trust", maybe after 5 positive sales/feedbacks etc, or after 1000mposts, or as the person is a known member of whatever etc, that will help many buyers and sellers new or old to see they can trust this seller. BUT, A fee(i dont mind paying), will defo put off the occasional seller of just the odd item etc. this will make the trade section less attractive to sell on/buy from and as mentioned by a few people will sadly make it a no longer great busy part of an awsome forum...... Awsome Forum, i like that saying.... I digress....

I think maybe a little more policing, of the trade section would help. A stricter policy of who can/can't post for sale items. A link to trader feedback for each person on there profile section/pic etc. Insisting on a picture of the item. Also the persons postcode(1st part) is a good idea so people know where there located. A ban on gift payments WONT work. as people that know one another prefer this method as saves everyone money from the paypal fees etc. I happily pay gift to ooplers i have previously used/dealt with as i am sure many have done the same.
I NEVER insist gift, and normally my listings are including the paypal fees if cheap items. The more expensive items i list plus fees as again, if the buyer knows me, gift is fine. I always sent items tracked/recorded etc and if value is high, then insured as well(as mentioned, the post office cant be trusted either).

So, Its not an easy decision for Jimmy to make, or for Admin to police.

But either way. keep up the great work and we will all just go with what happens. Personally i say no fee, more rules/policing, better checks on new people etc. Thats my 2 pennies worth, althou looks like i have written a fivers worth lol.....

TARTMAN............
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  #50  
Old 01-04-2013
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Jim bud i havnt sold a single thing on here but have bought alot,so would i need to pay a fiver to buy sumit or is it just for the seller.soz bud not being an ass
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  #51  
Old 01-04-2013
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No one would need to pay anything mate. I am just thinking of ways to protect people. So it'd be optional.


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  #52  
Old 01-04-2013
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simple answer is anyone that's wants acess must proved details of contact as well as pay the fiver and jimmy keeps a recorded of paid up members
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  #53  
Old 01-04-2013
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Not really knowing how the set up of this type of forum works this might be a load of shit. Could you not make the Trade section completely separate in the forum and would only be activated to that certain person after the they had a certain amount of posts? Say, 100?

I know you could run up 100 posts quickly but everyone could see what they are posting and know if the person was genuine or not.

Like I said, that might be total crap but that type of thing may keep the scammers out.
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  #54  
Old 01-04-2013
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I've only read through part of the topic, but in general the first step is indeed for buyers to watch out themselves and keep themselves up to date on 'the trends of scamming.'

However, I can understand it's still an unwanted phenomenon on your forum. You want a safe, free trading environment, and you don't want the 'spam' feel that these scams and crazy offers often feel like (at least to me).

--------------------------------------

Could you perhaps make a system where members below say 100 posts (and have been member for less than a month) pay a small fee to enable entrance to the trade section? (i.e 5GBP fee per year+1GBP per topic as long as you stay under this amount of posts).

This rule will enable new members access to the trading section if they really need/want to sell something, but at a charge to prevent scammers (with fresh/new accounts) from getting in.

People who make a 100 posts or more and use the account for more than a month usually are people who have more business on the forums than just selling stuff, and are people who have interest in a good reputation.

In addition to this you could perhaps make more easy referral to the trader feedback (when you click a member's name, in the dropdown menu a button saying 'see trader feedback' - meaning EVERY member will have 1 trader feedback topic accessed in the click of a button), and if someone has a perfect or a very bad trading reputation, mark it on their profile?

Also as a last thing, for long time/term members who have gotten bad feedback (and it's backed up that it was a scam or bad sale), you could charge them for next sales before banning them from the trading section altogether if they scam again?

I know these are all pretty serious ideas and it is a pretty serious/heavy subject, but I'm just throwing some ideas out there
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  #55  
Old 03-04-2013
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As one of the people targeted by the muppet let me add my 2p worth

First off thanks to those who police this on our behalf - because of their warning, (and some common sense ) I didn't fall for it.

Second, whenever you're buying anything it's a case of buyer beware - whether it's a scam or otherwise it's the buyers responsibity to make sure they know what they're buying from who and they know and accept the risks. I appreciate what the mod's do on here but they can't protect us 100%.

I like the idea of some sort of trusted badge, based on a combination of length of membership, trader feedback, friend verification by other users or so on. This could be bought for a fee but think the two levels of trust should be distinguised: I'd trust a long serving member with valued feedback more than someone who'd stumped up £5.

We're trying to protect buyers by doing this and I imagine most people with things to sell have been around some time and known by the community who can vouch for them, therefore wouldn't need to pay the £5.

cheers
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  #56  
Old 03-04-2013
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how about adding your brca number it means your serious about the hobby and that can be checked i dont sell much on here i like to keep it but if i did a £5 0r a £10 is nothing when you consider flee bays prices
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  #57  
Old 03-04-2013
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Jimmy, you and your merry band of mods already do a great job of keeping the for sale section honest and the sheer amount of kit that runs through it and the low scam rate is testament to this compared to other forums out there.

I like the 'trusted user' idea, some other forums out there have a 'thank you' button on posts which i think is a great idea to gauging if a user is helpful and genuine or not.

Are you able to disable PM's and trade posts until a user has a certain number of trusted friends? Also making sure people fill in their profiles with correct names , locations and clubs would help too..
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  #58  
Old 03-04-2013
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I think an option linking it to Ebay feedback would be good.

I have bought and sold on oople for about 5 years, maybe 10 - 15 items succesfully, but never really used the feedback section.

But my ebay feedback is 100% and I would like to think if you behave on ebay you would on a forum.
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  #59  
Old 03-04-2013
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It's a really difficult area; thanks to Jimmy for opening it up to ideas.

My reality is that there are too many people who don't give a stuff for their fellow man any more. It's the "me me" generation - only in it for themselves. The great thing about 'trading' on Oople is that RC people - real RC people - have not joined that generation.

I have never, and probably will never, bid for or sell anything on eBay or anywhere else for that matter. I'm too naive and unless the scam is obvious I'd probably be taken in. Things I thought I trusted turn out to be easy to use against honest people. So, for me, Oople and forums like it are a god-send as I can deal with people who have the same interests as me, and are universally helpful if someone tries to rip you off.

As for the paying thing, I don not understand why people are reluctant to pay £5 for an annual access to the For Sale and Wanted threads. As has been said many times on this thread, Jimmy and the Mods do a great job keeping it up to scratch. Why should they do that for nothing at all? Why couldn't members here pay a small amount so that Jimmy has something to work with to improve the site, and the Mods could get at least some fo their broadband charges paid? What is wrong with making token gestures to people who do so much for us? Why, when eBay fees are so large, do people think the For Sale and Wanted threads would not be used? Seems very penny-pinching to me.

So, of the ideas here - yes to 100+ posts; yes to a "thanks" button and yes to an annual fee to help Jimmy and the Mods keep it a good place to buy and sell. Just my thoughts...
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  #60  
Old 03-04-2013
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I am on another forum which implements the post cap to even see the for sale section (50 posts), after that you need 500 to sell something on it. I think there is an auto module or something for phpBB somewhere which might help you out on this jimmy.
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