TLR 22-4 carpet issues

janisdaubergs · #1 23-03-2015

Hey,

Had 2 races with my brand new 22-4, running it on carpet with minipins yellow and 8.5T SP combo, just converted to shorty and as most of you guys race on Astro/Carpet, would like to get advice:

Main issue for me is that car feels sleepy, and when try to get is cornering fast and tight than my inner front wheel is lifting and I loose steering;

I'm not newbie, race 1/8 for 3 years and I'm fighting for 3rd overall with my 22 2.0, problem is that I can't drive my 22-4 fast enough, as XB4 drivers drive ~ 2 secs faster on 13sec laps.

I tried different setups from petit, I use 500/500 oils, black springs in front and hardest low fr. springs in rear, car as low as it can be, but still seems, that it's not so competitive on carpet, I'm sure I didn't get right setup, so can anybody that had same problem had resolved it?

steveproracing · #2 23-03-2015

You need to try one or more of these changes.
Lower the inner rear ball stud
Shorten the rear link
Stiffer rear spring. The low freq springs are all designed for dirt not carpet. Something like a pink or red will be much better.
Rear roll bar may help
1mm limiter inside front shocks may help.
High rear roll centre blocks

janisdaubergs · #3 23-03-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveproracing

You need to try one or more of these changes.
Lower the inner rear ball stud
Shorten the rear link
Stiffer rear spring. The low freq springs are all designed for dirt not carpet. Something like a pink or red will be much better.
Rear roll bar may help
1mm limiter inside front shocks may help.
High rear roll centre blocks

Ok what about front sway, oils and ride hight? What about diff stiffness?
Intalled them as in tlr video - rear has full spin and front half spin. Slipper as hard as it can be.

Now shortened rear link, installed shorty as far to front as possible, black buggy spring in front red in rear, 500-500 oils, 1.5 cambers front shocks 1mm shim.
Have stiffest sways in both rear and front and about 19-21 height. Front can't be lower as sping than would be too short.

steveproracing · #4 23-03-2015

Wow. Not sure you will need all that. I would take off the roll bars. If the problem persists then start adding a rear roll bar. Start with a soft one and work up. Front roll bar will just reduce your steering feel.

steveproracing · #5 23-03-2015

Diffs will be fine like that. It's a fine adjustment that you tweak when you have got the balance of the chassis sorted.

janisdaubergs · #6 24-03-2015

Thanks for all the help!

All of that was added one by one in last event, when I was driving saddles and just couldn't get it right.
About diffs I asked, as guy with kyosho is driving ball diffs so free, that wheels can be spines easy, I just thought maybe mine are to tight, and that's why I can't get tight corners - because they are spinning in very equal speed, as as I thought maybe I can't do it as my wheel spins in more equal speed, than needed.

Have anyone tried to add some weights on front arms, if nothing helps?

Also I'm thinking maybe I got the driving wrong for 4WD, with 2WD all is clear for me - just give throttle when car is on straight and brake before corners and do them with small to none throttle applied as tight as possible, that takes me to 2nd/3rd places. What about 4WD, where you start to apply throttle - in middle of turn?
For now with intellect slim shorty 3500 I get my car at 1676 grams, seems as a good result. Yesterday also moved shorty to as much forward as it can be - till it hits belt cover screw mount.

What about flipped shocks - it it a must mod and what can I get from it?

Razer · #7 24-03-2015

Hi Janis!

For me, one of the biggest changes to avoid the car leaning over on it's rear wheels and lifting the inside front, was CVA rear drive shafts. At first I used 22 2.0 shafts and hubs, with Ten-SCTE hexes to get the width to 250mm. This made the rear end better in all ways.

The thing is the universals have no binding, so the car feels softer, and doesn't square up under load. Some people like it, I hate it, and run the CVAs. The car feels more precise, and it reacts quicker to throttle input.

Now TLR has released CVAs for the 22-4, so I'm about to try that both in the front and rear.

Last year, I flipped the rear arms and ran the shocks in front of the tower, as did the rest of the team(www.teamsmallsize.com), and we felt it did rotate a bit better. I'm back to stock right now for some testing.

For lower links in the rear, exotek has released both new rear hubs and a new rear camber block to allow for more adjustability

http://www.exotekracing.com/losi-tlr...eatured&page=2

janisdaubergs · #8 24-03-2015

Thanks!! will check it out.

Is there any Exotek distributor in EU? I'm myself from Latvia, and it hurts to pay such large amount of cash for shipping.

BR,
Janis.

Razer · #9 24-03-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by janisdaubergs

Thanks!! will check it out.

Is there any Exotek distributor in EU? I'm myself from Latvia, and it hurts to pay such large amount of cash for shipping.

BR,
Janis.

Not that I know of. I ended up with 7 dollars in shipping to get it straight to my mailbox in a few days to norway, is it that much worse to Latvia?

janisdaubergs · #10 24-03-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razer

Not that I know of. I ended up with 7 dollars in shipping to get it straight to my mailbox in a few days to norway, is it that much worse to Latvia?

23$

given latest eur-usd, it's very much together

Razer · #11 24-03-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by janisdaubergs

23$

given latest eur-usd, it's very much together

Ouch!

fletcher · #12 25-03-2015

Take the low frequency springs off. As said, there useless on carpet. I predominantly run on carpet and have the car dialed. (top 5 at the maritime world cup with the like off boots, Neuman etc) Iv settled on 4 or 6 hole pistons. Cars much easier to lean on and changes direction much better. Iv settle on 4 hole 1.3mm front and 1.4mm rear. With 37 1/2 front and 32 1\2 rear oils. I run the exotec rear camber block with the hole being just below the middle bottom hole on the standard block. (that being what I ran before this exotec block) rear wishbone flipped with shocks on the front then also the 22 rear end and cvd driveshafts. Avid purple front springs and avid red rears. 3.7 and 2.3 ratings on them both. Dont hesitate to pm me for any other info mate ��

janisdaubergs · #13 25-03-2015

Thanks for all the input, do you have any pictures on shock flipping setup with 22 drive-shafts? Did You also use 22 hubs?

I would like to try it step by step - 1. flip shocks, 2. add rear dogbones/hubs from 22.

While did it at home, seemed that with that setup rear camber links are under big angle, and thought is it ok...
Also what shims to use to get dogbone closer to diff outdrives?

I have all parts except those shims, that's why I'm bit afraid to do this mod as dogbones might flip out. For that:
1. Thought, that it can be done using right shims - but didn't get what parts are used for it.
2. Other wait is by adding limiters to rear shocks, as I don't need droop on carpet.

Also want to clear how to shim caster link in order to get in acceptable angle and it wouldn't touch shocks.

fletcher · #14 25-03-2015

If your running the 2wd rear end you need 1.6mm of driveshaft spacers between the bearing and driveshaft so that you dont drop a shaft out at full droop. Keep the droop, the car works well with it. Its simple to do, switch the wishbones from left to right and vice versa and then mount the shocks on the front of the tower. Use a longer nut and bolt and add a 2mm spacer behind the shock bush to space the shock away from the link, then also between the ball stud on the block and block itself add a 1mm spacer. That will space the shock and link far enough apart that they wont touch.

janisdaubergs · #15 25-03-2015

Those drive-shaft spacers - are there any specific parts?
They came with kit, but to add some more for that 1.6mm, I need additional ones that are slimmer, can you please post part number used for that mod?

Razer · #16 25-03-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by janisdaubergs

Those drive-shaft spacers - are there any specific parts?
They came with kit, but to add some more for that 1.6mm, I need additional ones that are slimmer, can you please post part number used for that mod?

losa6356 has shims that I used together with the black axle shims.

fletcher · #17 26-03-2015

Nothing special. Any driveshaft spacer. Iv got core rc things that work great

5tone · #18 04-07-2015

hi guys,
i can't train myself on carpet, just racing, and my first race in 4wd category approaching
so i need your advices on which front tires to use
minipin or stagger wide

thank's for your help.

janisdaubergs · #19 04-09-2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yhcA-9sdXM

Here's our track.

Latvian outdoor champ. is over, took 2nd overall.
Time to prepare and try to find setup for my 22-4 for indoor first practice is on 4th October.

Are there any specific setup you'd suggest for this kind of track?
From hop-ups for this season bought 0 side inserts, new front belt cover, rear mip cvd's.

BR,
Janis

janisdaubergs · #20 08-09-2015

Ordered Avid springs as suggested above, exotek rear camber block, and shims to add 22 2.0 rear driveshafts, but that will be last modification I'll make, at first will try existing mip cvd's and see maybe it works.

Rgd tires will try:
1. rear minipin2 with widestagger in front;
2. minipins all around as all drivers use here;
3. will stry minispikes as well, but I'm afraid, that they won't be competitive compared with minipins.

Still haven't found any pro driver carpet setup sheet.
Will try to use 5.5T motor with 18t pinion and see how it performs.