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  #41  
Old 30-03-2013
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just to let you know

1. Ive put a map up (in another thread) for the people that haven't been before to avoid meeting a gate in your way . sat nav shouldn't take you that way but just in case

2. Colin will be on later to explain whats going on with the day (he just poped out apparently) paul worsley has been contacted to settle the debate and will all be explained

3. all Holbeach club are doing is hosting the round . we are running it how the rep and the brca wants us to run it .

4. weather looks decent for weekend
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  #42  
Old 30-03-2013
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Hell...best pack my pitchfork again this year
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  #43  
Old 30-03-2013
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Originally Posted by Benh View Post
There are very sound reasons behind the 3q+3F format to which I am not about to get into a forum debate about. (By all means over a table and face to face no problem - AGM's are the best place). But it was voted in and has not been voted out. So here are the options to anyone not in favour of it:

1 - Cancel your entry
2 - Call an EGM and get it changed
3 - Contact the 1:10 Off Road Section Committee here and argue that the region is in breach of the rules and that the EoE results will not contribute to the following F-Grades.

1 and 3 cannot make the change and will only act to influence the decision of 2.


TIP:
Option 3: Find out over the years how many and just as importantly, who went to the end of year finals and made use of the F-License awarded.

And finally, I look forward to seeing all the contributors of this thread at the next AGM!
very well said that man
having known Tony M (the man challenged with running this meeting ) i know he will do his best to please all

does it really matter 1 extra run ?

its Toy cars at a weekend , its not life or death or even work its meant to be fun ,social relaxation will the world stop turning , I doubt it

those who argue the rules make be technically correct but will they be there helping to clear up at the end of the meeting . Once again i doubt it

there are too many "professional" drivers whose purpose appears to be turn up race and go home

too few help with runnning ,organising club and regional events to those who do i applaud you, having been involved at club level for 20 years it can be a thankless task but we do need you guys

im sorry a meeting a meeting is going to be so popular there isn't going to be enough time to complete to Brca official rules rules

good on E of E if their system works if its been in operation for a few years now is not the time to moan as BenH says turn up at AGM if not enjoy the racing thats put on for you

this is my personal opinon and everybody is entitled to theirs too

regards dave
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  #44  
Old 30-03-2013
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Why is it before every seasons racing there is stupid bickering about the stupid rules that the brca set out to seemingly deter the average club racer from competing at what is supposed to be the next level of racing. For myself though its not the next level of racing because i am only allowed to race the same people as i race against week in week out at the clubs i frequent. I dont get the opportunity to directly race against higher profile drivers because of another stupid piece of brca legislation. I also dont get to use all of the equipment that i and many others would like to use because of seriously outdated and poorly thought out homologation pricedures.

I am sure i am not the only one that is peed off with all of the crap that comes with the regionals. As far as i am concerned Colin is the man in charge. Ultimately he makes the decisions to how the racing will be conducted and his choices should be respected and stuck to, not questioned and undermined at every opportunity because that is what every the brca rulebook says and we have to stick to it because the book says so. I fully appriciate the requirement for rules but it should be down to the elected rep to put in place the rules that they think are neccasery and set out the racing in a way that best suits the drivers of the region and the hosting clubs of the region.

I no longer wish to read and hear of the crap that people who do nothing to help run the region give to the few that do. I would like to take this opportunity to thank colin for taking on the all to often unthanked task of running the regionals and doing a very solid job and also to benh who dragged the region up from the dogs a few years back and steering it in the right direction and for all the great work that you still do but unfortunatley i have had enough of the attitude of a few of the other racers and that really spoils it for me so i will not be racing at the first round because of this. Colin/ben could you please withdraw my entry from holbeach.

George

George,

It's a shame you feel this way about the BRCA and the way regionals are run.
I've been racing regionals for 11 years, and never seen or had a problem with the BRCA or any rules. So I'm puzzled as to the problems you are talking about???

It's very simple, 4 rounds of qualifying followed by finals, how ever many there are as long as there is 3 for the A final. This is the rules set out by the BRCA and is proven to work.

So where is the big problem? And who is it you want to race against and are not allowed to?

I'm not trying to cause problems here, just participating in a thread on an open forum.
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  #45  
Old 30-03-2013
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The way I see it is the EoE is a victim of their own success!
You are now too big to hold 2wd and 4wd regionals on the same day, and accommodate SC and an open and run the meetings to a traditional 4 rounds of qualifying and finals.

So congratulations on your success as a region, these issues are just minor and can easily be sorted.
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  #46  
Old 30-03-2013
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Shame got to work Monday so will not be there.To all the boys and girls going,have a good day and nights racing.
Just a thought on the next round,scrub the hillbilly short course trucks and have a heat of 1/8th electric
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  #47  
Old 30-03-2013
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The 3 finals for a finalists and only 1 for everybody else is a case in point. Everybody should get the same amount of race time whether first or last. Why should the top 10 get an extra 2 finals to everybody else?

The homologation of batteries and motors puzzles me. I fully understand the need for minimum standards on batteries for safety purposes as there is a lot of potential energy stored in a battery which needs to be controlled, but there are a number of batteries on the market that are much more competitively priced than many of those on the brca list, and which are just as safe and still have very good performance, and which many of the club racers use in the region, but not allowed to run them at regionals because they are not on the list. I can understand the requirement for standards such as hard case, maximum voltage of 8.4v maximum sizes etc.

I don't understand the need for homologation for motors in a modified off road class. You can have as much power as you want these days, to much on most occasions for many racers, myself included. I can't see any safety implications of motors. The most expensive motors on the list can still short out as easy as those not on the list if not used properly. I fully understand the need for the rules in spec racing but in open modified?

Also if the homologation is about ensuring safe equipment then why aren't radio equipment and speed controllers homologated as well and also the design of some of the cars called into question. Lipos can soon be blown up by faults on speed controllers shorting them out, or pins coming out of driveshafts whether or not they are brca approved.

As to the region being a victim of its own success, unfortunately there are still not enough to make separate 2wd and 4wd events viable. It's not far off but still not quite there, and the sc trucks have proven to be a great draw as it has pulled in many drivers that would previously not have competed in either of the other classes without it. Plus they provide some of the best action going

I am disappointed that I cannot race alongside the likes of nathen waters and other top drivers that would normally race in a different region, to see how I compare and to be shown really how to do it. I know you can compare times but its really not the same, and the open class just drags the meeting out in my opinion.

I just don't see why a meeting has to be run to a certain set of rules when it works better running to another which has evolved very successfully over the last few years.

The current format has been working very well for the e of e for the last few years and many new racers have started and continued to compete and enjoy the way the meetings have been run. I don't see why it should be changed at this moment in time, by one or two people on a forum.

Hopefully the meeting on Monday will be a success and all of the racers have a good time, but for me the bickering puts a downer on it and makes me not want to attend the meeting. At the end of the day it's grown men playing with toy cars in a field. I don't take it to seriously, and I think races and meetings are spoilt when people do take it to seriously.
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  #48  
Old 30-03-2013
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What's so hard about running the same way all other regions run rather than the "lawford mentality" of screw the brca they don't know what their talking about. 4 rounds of qualifying gives every one a better chance to get their best quailfing position 3 finals for A, 2 for all others
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  #49  
Old 30-03-2013
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Originally Posted by R666REW View Post
What's so hard about running the same way all other regions run rather than the "lawford mentality" of screw the brca they don't know what their talking about. 4 rounds of qualifying gives every one a better chance to get their best quailfing position 3 finals for A, 2 for all others
This not the "Lawford mentality" this region has run 3 + 3 for many years, if you raced in the region you would know this.

The EoE 2013 details stated the format was 3 + 3 why can people not accept that.
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  #50  
Old 30-03-2013
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This not the "Lawford mentality" this region has run 3 + 3 for many years, if you raced in the region you would know this.

The EoE 2013 details stated the format was 3 + 3 why can people not accept that.
Well said baz its a shame that people who havent raced in the region have to moan

It seams like they have alienated one of the regions best drivers
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  #51  
Old 30-03-2013
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Very well said George!

I agree with some of what you say, not that it matters any more than one person agreeing or disagreeing with another lol.

Rules can be frustrating, but they are there to try and make things fair. I agree with you on motors and batteries for sure, and to be fair size and shape and weight doesn't make a huge difference, after all, out little toy cars have been engineered to go as fast as possible, I don't see how they could go much faster.

But when it comes to a regional meeting certain rules do help keep things consistent. Example, you go along to this meeting on Monday and the regional rep has changed the qualifying, 1 round of qualifying, and he puts you heat 1 car 10. Now what chance do you have making a good time?
Now before all you jump up and down and say you all sat at an AGM and decided this, I did read that, but you also said the regional rep should make all the decisions, now you see it's getting quite confused here.
The story continues, so you go ahead and race and have a rubbish day, and you say you will never race again, the regional rep never should have been able to make a decision like that!!

Another short story, you have a racer that has raced for 20+ years at the other end of the country from you, he has got his whole family involved and it's a family day out, then his work relocates him to your area at short notice, so he pack all his stuff and moves, he comes along to the first regional, it's announced that it's 3+3, well he is upset, he knows the rules, and has raced 4+ finals for a long time, and he has a bad day.

So there is 2 sides to the story, now you can say well why didnt the guy just accept 3+3, and he would say why can't you just race to the rules, you guys then explain, we don't like all the BRCA rules, but were going to host regionals, so we had the AGM and decided to change the rules for our region. And he says, what, you have changed the rules that you agreed to go by when you decided to host a regional, and you have done it at a time and place when all the drivers were not present to ask???

This is a perfect example when the BRCA rules help. Now it takes a lot of work to run a track as you know, it also takes a lot of work to run the BRCA and these guys give their time up for free. Now they don't just sit around and make rules for the fun of it. Each section has a number of meetings throughout the year, and of course there is the annual BRCA AGM. They have watched the way qualifying and racing has worked for many years, and as a group have voted this method of 4 qualifying and finals, I believe it is only mandatory that the A final have a 3 legged final. So you can have 3 finals for all if you want.

Now I know there was not much of a racing scene a few years ago and as a result you guys adopted your 3+3 on your race days. But you have grown, and there is enough drivers to separate 2wd and 4wd regionals with your support SC and open classes. You would have about at least 8 heats if you separated.

I have not seen anyone in this thread badmouth any of you guys, I have not seen any bickering, what I have seen is people putting their side forward. Which is a healthy debate.

That's probably the longest post I've ever made haha
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  #52  
Old 30-03-2013
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David, you also make some good points, but also seem to miss the whole point.

The EoE has run 3 + 3 for many years in it's regionals, no-one who has raced in previous EoE regionals has complained, the two main complaints seem to come from you, who I don't believe is or has raced in this region & Alec who has entered this region for the first time.

The whole of this seems to be because one racer in his first year in the region doesn't like it, this person also complained about holding 2WD & 4WD on the same day and about the entry fee (too cheap!!).
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  #53  
Old 30-03-2013
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Originally Posted by No. 46 View Post
The 3 finals for a finalists and only 1 for everybody else is a case in point. Everybody should get the same amount of race time whether first or last. Why should the top 10 get an extra 2 finals to everybody else?

The homologation of batteries and motors puzzles me. I fully understand the need for minimum standards on batteries for safety purposes as there is a lot of potential energy stored in a battery which needs to be controlled, but there are a number of batteries on the market that are much more competitively priced than many of those on the brca list, and which are just as safe and still have very good performance, and which many of the club racers use in the region, but not allowed to run them at regionals because they are not on the list. I can understand the requirement for standards such as hard case, maximum voltage of 8.4v maximum sizes etc.

I don't understand the need for homologation for motors in a modified off road class. You can have as much power as you want these days, to much on most occasions for many racers, myself included. I can't see any safety implications of motors. The most expensive motors on the list can still short out as easy as those not on the list if not used properly. I fully understand the need for the rules in spec racing but in open modified?

Also if the homologation is about ensuring safe equipment then why aren't radio equipment and speed controllers homologated as well and also the design of some of the cars called into question. Lipos can soon be blown up by faults on speed controllers shorting them out, or pins coming out of driveshafts whether or not they are brca approved.

As to the region being a victim of its own success, unfortunately there are still not enough to make separate 2wd and 4wd events viable. It's not far off but still not quite there, and the sc trucks have proven to be a great draw as it has pulled in many drivers that would previously not have competed in either of the other classes without it. Plus they provide some of the best action going

I am disappointed that I cannot race alongside the likes of nathen waters and other top drivers that would normally race in a different region, to see how I compare and to be shown really how to do it. I know you can compare times but its really not the same, and the open class just drags the meeting out in my opinion.

I just don't see why a meeting has to be run to a certain set of rules when it works better running to another which has evolved very successfully over the last few years.

The current format has been working very well for the e of e for the last few years and many new racers have started and continued to compete and enjoy the way the meetings have been run. I don't see why it should be changed at this moment in time, by one or two people on a forum.

Hopefully the meeting on Monday will be a success and all of the racers have a good time, but for me the bickering puts a downer on it and makes me not want to attend the meeting. At the end of the day it's grown men playing with toy cars in a field. I don't take it to seriously, and I think races and meetings are spoilt when people do take it to seriously.
well said George.
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  #54  
Old 30-03-2013
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Originally Posted by Coastal View Post
David, you also make some good points, but also seem to miss the whole point.

The EoE has run 3 + 3 for many years in it's regionals, no-one who has raced in previous EoE regionals has complained, the two main complaints seem to come from you, who I don't believe is or has raced in this region & Alec who has entered this region for the first time.

The whole of this seems to be because one racer in his first year in the region doesn't like it, this person also complained about holding 2WD & 4WD on the same day and about the entry fee (too cheap!!).

Thank you :@)

I do completely understand what you are saying, really I do, and have done from the moment I read it.

And to be fair, I don't think I am complaining, I am talking about my opinion on an open public forum, about a sport I thoroughly enjoy.

You guys must have known that at some stage someone would come along and challenge your style of 3+3 regionals? So if it wasn't now it would have been soon as your region is growing fast
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  #55  
Old 30-03-2013
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George,

As far as motors and lipos go, the BRCA can only approve these if they are sent to them. I'm sure the BRCA knows there are good quality products out there, but how can they approve them if the manufacturer or distributor dont supply them to the BRCA for approval? You would think that the manufactures and distributors would want them approved as there are so many clubs that run to the BRCA rules.
So it may not be that the BRCA don't want to approve them, it may just be that they never even had the chance to approve them.
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  #56  
Old 30-03-2013
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George please change your mind and come and race !

Won't be the same without you there to watch in admiration and help us with our set ups

Don't let the opinions of a few spoil your day out !
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  #57  
Old 30-03-2013
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hi all
were coming from mid-east to race on Monday.
i don't give a flying f*** what format you run!
that's down to you guys to decide at your agm! 2 from 3 will make you concentrate! 3 finals should be good fun. Cant wait.
p.s. @george don't let the buggers get you down!
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  #58  
Old 30-03-2013
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Default rule clarification.

Hi all, i have put a post titled rule clarification just to start a new thread and an end to this one...
As for george, please come, your a true professional and a good advert for this hobby. besides i charge you double from now on and set hubbard on you!!!
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  #59  
Old 30-03-2013
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set hubbard on you
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  #60  
Old 30-03-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coastal View Post
David, you also make some good points, but also seem to miss the whole point.

The EoE has run 3 + 3 for many years in it's regionals, no-one who has raced in previous EoE regionals has complained, the two main complaints seem to come from you, who I don't believe is or has raced in this region & Alec who has entered this region for the first time.

The whole of this seems to be because one racer in his first year in the region doesn't like it, this person also complained about holding 2WD & 4WD on the same day and about the entry fee (too cheap!!).
I do think the entry fee is too cheap as you are effectively running two regional events in one, but if the clubs don't want to make money and improve the facilities then that's entirely up to them, I will of course benefit from the single entry fee too.

You are correct, I have entered the E of E region for the first time, it means a lot of travelling for me (like many others I assume) so obviously, as I've not raced at all the tracks before, I'd like as many rounds of qualifying as the BRCA rules allow. If this is seen as complaining then I apologise, but all I'm trying to do is get more track time for everyone at the meeting, I've not mentioned anywhere in any of these posts that I'd like less finals for anyone.

It seems as though there is very little interest in the E of E region for F ratings, end of season finals and the rules set out by the BRCA for regional events if you read the posts above from E of E members so it makes me wonder why you don't hold your own E of E series and not bother with regionals?
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