Standards

[Suzukitudor]

As a Builder of track obstacles and commitee member at SHRCCC the comment about setting a track up in the morning...... Come on. Have you actually helped set up a track for a regional or any track for that matter (it's more than setting up a track - there are many other things required as well - ie food van, signage, banners, scrutineering area, car numbers, trophies, etc etc)? The amount of work it takes means it's not a quick 10 minute job. I agree that the track layout should be one not used before but whether it is set up a day, a week, or whenever so what? We find a lot of people love to criticise or think they know best, but when it actually comes to helping a club out with their time forget it. Those who shout loudest with the most complaints are usually the ones most likely to contribute bugger all.

[Cockerill]

Sounds like the Mid-West has a volunteer for a full time ref for next year's regional series...

20 years experience of RC races, willing to ref all races to ensure 100% consistency for all racers at all levels. By volunteering their time (for a thankless task) they will improve the day for all racers and spectators, as well as improving the show for newcomers at the track, well done that person

[Welshy40]

I agree with the writer of this thread, a lot of drivers mess around when marshalling and dont pay attention and cost drivers a good qualifier. They deserve penalties, top drivers included. Then there is attitude and mostly from fathers to their kids, not naming any to shame but would like to see someone deal with them as well as its not setting a good example. Yes shouting does happen at marshals on occassion however nine out of ten times you tend to crash where they cant see it, however so long as its not foul mouthed and was a go at them, then an apology normally goes down well afterwards, as the banter track side is normally good.

[discothesnake]

I do agree with a lot of this but I don't think it's just A finalists. It's all the wAy through you get some people who have Absolutly no interest in marshalling.

Even at nationals you get some that chat, have hands in pockets or stargaze. A lot of time referees and the person on the mic have little interest in lower finals also. It's a shame as everyone is entitled to a good race.

By the way, I aldo race in Scotland and marshalling up here is hideous! Laughable.

[Lee1972]

On a slightly different note, could anyone in the know, say what the referees job actually is concerning drivers in that heat? I'm guessing their roll has changed, but it certainly isn't what I remember 20 years ago.[/QUOTE]

Don't know the definitive answer to the job role but having raced in the NW regionals the race referee is there to monitor and warn about driving standards, ensures that there's order on the rostrum and advises drivers when they're about to be lapped so as to aid a fluid race.

[Steve.T]

Simple answer to this issue is to marshal the way you expect to be marshaled.

[Ritchie T]

[Rick-J]

On the track issue it is not realistic or fair to expect the track to be built on the day. If the post about a track layout being used before is aimed at Hinckley I can guarantee you that layout was not used before. Yes they race on a Saturday but then change the layout for the regional. Anyway any one who's regional is there local club will of course have an advantage. Thats just normal. Anyway thats not what this thread was about.

[Halo355]

Originally Posted by Cockerill

Sounds like the Mid-West has a volunteer for a full time ref for next year's regional series...

20 years experience of RC races, willing to ref all races to ensure 100% consistency for all racers at all levels. By volunteering their time (for a thankless task) they will improve the day for all racers and spectators, as well as improving the show for newcomers at the track, well done that person

Sarcasm is a great way to encourage people to take up racing- as you can see from the majority of people in this thread this is an issue throughout the country. If I can see it as a spectator, then there must be hundreds of drivers who can also.

[andoiwebb]

Get stuck in then, and show us all how it's done!

[Halo355]

There isn't a need to show people what to do, it's obvious that people are very capable of refereeing races correctly. The issue is that they pick and choose when to apply rules depending on which race is on the track at that time.

[Cockerill]

Originally Posted by Halo355

Sarcasm is a great way to encourage people to take up racing

Agreed...almost as good as going to watch a meeting, getting annoyed because your friend got a penalty, setting up an anonymous account on here and moaning about the hard work of volunteers...almost, but not quite!

[DCM]

Originally Posted by Halo355

I think my point may have been lost throughout this thread - I'm not criticising the the time and effort put into organising these events, I'm not criticising A finalists marshalling. I am however criticising the application of rules. Many people in the heats and lower finals are subject to inconsistent officiating- how can they therefore improve their times if they have to wait for marshalling during the race because there are no consequences as "it's just the X final". Surely if everyone pays the same, they should be afforded the same level of refereeing as the sponsored drivers, who already have the advantage of chassis, motors, endless tyres etc. I personally think that there is a huge flaw that these drivers are allowed to flaunt the rules while they drive in their races and then be allowed to volunteer to apply those same rules to other drivers.

And I am aware that it is not all drivers have this attitude

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand what you are stating and it is true in lots of circumstances, the ref needs to be an experienced racer and, to get consistency you need 1 maybe 2 ref's sharing the role for the day, but who do you get, I am sure the experienced guys are there to race, if they are racing then they can't be unbiased etc.

In the end of the day, abiding the rules first and foremost comes down to the racer to follow the rules and the racer to marshal promptly like it is them who has crashed. If you need a minder up on the rostrum permanently then the people racing need to have a word with themselves.

[Halo355]

Thanks to those who have posted

[SlowOne]

Yes, there should be a uniform application of the Rules. There are anything between 50 and 120 drivers at a race, and anything from 5 to 12 heats/finals. There are ten cars on a large track at any one time covering scores of laps per race and final. And the Referee has one pair of eyes...

The 10OR Rules are quite clear about the officials you need at a sanctioned meeting. If the officials are not there, what do you elect to happen? Don't run the event? Stop the event multiple times because the officials are off having a pee or a drink or something to eat? None of the above. And even if the Ref is present, he can only watch one piece of track at a time and your 'accident' has a greater chance of being not in the Ref's eyeline than being in his eyeliner. It is by definition almost impossible to have a uniform application of the Rules without people volunteering to help out.

I sympathise with your point of view, but unless you have something to offer as an alternative to voluntary people with one pair of eyes then the answer lies with the drivers, not the officials - behave yourselves and stick the Rules. Perhaps it would be a good start if everyone read the Rules!!

At 12th Scale Nationals every heat has a referee. Yes, the standard might be variable, but I don't think it any co-incidence that the standard of driving is higher than in any other class I race, or have raced. These guys are volunteers and they give of their time freely during a meeting. They are all racers. Marshals take their job seriously and do the best they can to get cars back on the track - they want others to do the same.

The many drivers who have been around the 12th scale block a few times make it their business to talk to the people new to the class and remind them of their obligations. We race Stock classes extensively (LMP12, GT12, GT10 and F1) so we all know that causing a collision is bad for both parties, and holding people up in qualifying is not on - one day it will be us on for that really good time.

We aren't angels, but we work together to make the racing as clean as possible. Noticeably it is at the non-BRCA races when the horns and elbows come out and you get the racers trying to get a good time at all costs - no referees!

As I said, I sympathise. But unless individuals are prepared to take a role and help everyone have a better day's racing, this will remain a feature of most meetings. Go an have a go at being a referee and applying the rules. I don't know of any organiser or Race Director who would refuse an offer of help.

[brooksy]

At Mid East regionals whoever is car 1 in each heat has to referee the next race unless it's a child. Volunteers are also asked for on the entry form. I think this is a good way to solve the problem.

[bbventovr6]

Originally Posted by SlowOne

Yes, there should be a uniform application of the Rules. There are anything between 50 and 120 drivers at a race, and anything from 5 to 12 heats/finals. There are ten cars on a large track at any one time covering scores of laps per race and final. And the Referee has one pair of eyes...

The 10OR Rules are quite clear about the officials you need at a sanctioned meeting. If the officials are not there, what do you elect to happen? Don't run the event? Stop the event multiple times because the officials are off having a pee or a drink or something to eat? None of the above. And even if the Ref is present, he can only watch one piece of track at a time and your 'accident' has a greater chance of being not in the Ref's eyeline than being in his eyeliner. It is by definition almost impossible to have a uniform application of the Rules without people volunteering to help out.

I sympathise with your point of view, but unless you have something to offer as an alternative to voluntary people with one pair of eyes then the answer lies with the drivers, not the officials - behave yourselves and stick the Rules. Perhaps it would be a good start if everyone read the Rules!!

At 12th Scale Nationals every heat has a referee. Yes, the standard might be variable, but I don't think it any co-incidence that the standard of driving is higher than in any other class I race, or have raced. These guys are volunteers and they give of their time freely during a meeting. They are all racers. Marshals take their job seriously and do the best they can to get cars back on the track - they want others to do the same.

The many drivers who have been around the 12th scale block a few times make it their business to talk to the people new to the class and remind them of their obligations. We race Stock classes extensively (LMP12, GT12, GT10 and F1) so we all know that causing a collision is bad for both parties, and holding people up in qualifying is not on - one day it will be us on for that really good time.

We aren't angels, but we work together to make the racing as clean as possible. Noticeably it is at the non-BRCA races when the horns and elbows come out and you get the racers trying to get a good time at all costs - no referees!

As I said, I sympathise. But unless individuals are prepared to take a role and help everyone have a better day's racing, this will remain a feature of most meetings. Go an have a go at being a referee and applying the rules. I don't know of any organiser or Race Director who would refuse an offer of help.

Is it compulsory for refs to wear eyeliner?