SOUTHPORT REFEREES

[Danny]

I find it really helpful to hear faster cars coming through over the commentary. It can be difficult sometimes, especially if you dont know the track, to have enough capacity in reserve to figure out if you're racing for position or being lapped.

[Lindsay]

I am sorry if I have opened up a can of worms regarding calling lead cars through.
In my opinion all drivers should have equal opertunaty to pass slower cars ie car 9 as as much right to pass car 10 if he is on a faster pace as the lead car to pass car any other car.You are all qualifing for a Faster time.
In the perfect world we would have a person on the Rostrum only watching the computer and calling the race order at the end of each lap.
In the [good] old days we used to have 4 permanent refs at each National with 3 watching at all times.May be its time for some of the younger end to help out more??

[Mrs oOple]

Originally Posted by Lindsay

May be its time for some of the younger end to help out more??

I did offer to help at Southport, but my suggestion was met with blank expressions

[Mrs oOple]

Originally Posted by strobe

The score board at Kiddy was a really good idea and very helpfull for the drivers refs and speccies. I thought the BRCA were going to get 1.

The BRCA borrowed the scoreboard for the first national to see if it would work well at our meetings, and find out what the crowd thought of having one there - that wasn't to say that they would get one for definite. It's a hefty piece of equipment so difficult to store and transport, and it also means more work for the race organisers on what is already a busy weekend for them.

I did find it a great addition to the meeting though, I have a short concentration span so quickly forget who is leading etc.

[Adam Skelding]

Originally Posted by Mrs oOple

I did offer to help at Southport, but my suggestion was met with blank expressions

But your a woman.
We all know how long it takes women to make decisions... Which shoes should I wear with this dress... oh my god I need to choose a dress. Do I need a hat?...

In all seriousness though the refs have a hard time. We've all probably got used to being 'called through' without it actually being a rule. Over the last couple of years, there has been much less consistentcy in who we have had as referees and therefore we are now noticing the 'little things' that we were accustomed to.

Having done reffing at regionals, I actually found the 'lower heats' easier to ref than higher heats. The guys in the lower heats seemed to appreciate when a faster car was coming up behind them. Maybe it's because the closing speed is much greater and visually more apparent that a car is travelling faster than they are.

IMHO: Damo's reffing was spot on and very much 'Old Skool' reffing, making cars aware of faster cars coming up behind them and thanking them afterwards (if) they had been courtieous.

Other refs have different styles, it's just the luck of the draw who you get.

But as was said at drivers briefing it's upto us as drivers to think about the people around us and be more considerate ourselves.

[mark christopher]

ive seen allot of raffing and in my opinion if your going to call the "top three" as faster cars, thats unfair to all. there is no saying that the top 6 in a heat are all lapping the 4 slower cars, your just handingthe top three an advantage over the rest.

ref should moniter driving standards of all cars and not worry about who is where.

as for the comment made about 1:1 cars being waved through with a blue flag, yup they are, BUT any lapping car gets waved through, not a chosen few

[MattADH]

Originally Posted by Lindsay

In the [good] old days we used to have 4 permanent refs at each National with 3 watching at all times.May be its time for some of the younger end to help out more??

Bring back Dave Booth and Terry Wright!

They were very hard referees with no quarter given...

[Jamie B4]

Thats the whole point of being seeded in a particular heat - potentially all 10 cars can win the heat and so could be called through at any time. If you are number 10 in heat 1 of round 1 it is hard to get a clean run so if you are also hampered by slower cars and not called through it could take you 4 rounds to be up near the top and by that time everyone else has had a couple of runs and are getting quicker. If you are called through then in round 2 you could start off the grid in position 1 or 2 and get a good time. And we all know how hard it is with round by round qualifying!

[gps3300]

It must be very difficult to ensure the fastest drivers are called through consistently with just one ref - I don't envy their job.

For what it's worth, being a middle of the pack F3 I found it very helpful both when leading or being lapped. As already pointed out, the lower heats need this help more than the faster experienced drivers.

However, I'd rather there was no calling through than inconsistent calling through, that way everyone is in the same boat. At the Nationals a few years back you'd be called past for half a race, but on the next lap a back marker would take the lead car out whilst the ref's attention was diverted to ensuring that 2/3/4th place cars didn't hit each other.

At regionals & club nights drivers shout warnings to each other which is good, but I don't know if this is acceptable at the Nationals with the rostrum being a "quiet area".

Finally the Kidderminster scoreboard was an ace idea. Would also be great if tracks had a second loop at the end of the straight and the AMB software calculated speeds down the straight - bit like the tennis ball radar at Wimbledon

[Lindsay]

At regionals & club nights drivers shout warnings to each other which is good, but I don't know if this is acceptable at the Nationals with the rostrum being a "quiet area".

It is acceptable that drivers can speak!! to their follow competitors at Nationals on the Rostrum if they do it in a reasonable manner.

[burgie]

at the drivers briefing on Saturday and Sunday, it was said that the drivers were allowed to "negotiate their position" with the other drivers on the rostrum.

maybe the "quiet area" is meant to detract from the often ususl shouting at Marshalls or the driver that one may deem to have been taken out by?

[WHITTLER555]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

ive seen allot of raffing and in my opinion if your going to call the "top three" as faster cars, thats unfair to all. there is no saying that the top 6 in a heat are all lapping the 4 slower cars, your just handingthe top three an advantage over the rest.

ref should moniter driving standards of all cars and not worry about who is where.

as for the comment made about 1:1 cars being waved through with a blue flag, yup they are, BUT any lapping car gets waved through, not a chosen few

Hello Mark, maybe you misunderstood what I meant which means I didn't explain it very well.

During the races I notified drivers of the top three cars off the computer screen whether they were car 1 or 5 or 10. This situation was the most obvious in the first round as the cars set off in numerical order and there were the odd anomolie where car 10 (as in Danny Mcgee) was making swift progress through the field. This was also the most difficult to watch as you were trying to keep track of three cars at very different parts of the track.

Once you get to round two and three the "natural order" seemed to be evident and it was a bit easier to keep an eye on the mid field runners as well, but to be honest I could just about keep track of the top four cars if it was a clean race. This is on top of watching for corner cuts and blatant takeouts.

There were two refs for each race, one on the rostrum, one on the ground so to speak. I feel the ref on the rostrum is doing a good notifying drivers of thethe faster cars whilst watching for corner cutting and takeouts and the trackside ref is solely watching for corner cutting and take outs.

[strobe]

Could we have the ref's on the rostrum positioned in the middle. Sometimes struggle to hear the ref calling out faster cars when he is stood the other end of the rostrum.

[Cockerill]

Normally people like to stand in the middle, so that's not really possible

[Mr Spock]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

ive seen allot of raffing

I have also seen this.

[super__dan]

My 2 pence, the reffing on the weekend was excellent and I was lucky enough to be in a heat reffed by Damo. Unfortunately becasue of my lack of pace at times and the long gap between set off I was lapped by a couple of cars (likely on for TQ). I MUCH preferred knowing the car coming behind is lapping me and I know to get out the way, perhaps I have too many manners?

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by super__dan

My 2 pence, the reffing on the weekend was excellent and I was lucky enough to be in a heat reffed by Damo. Unfortunately becasue of my lack of pace at times and the long gap between set off I was lapped by a couple of cars (likely on for TQ). I MUCH preferred knowing the car coming behind is lapping me and I know to get out the way, perhaps I have too many manners?

in ic qual we have a rule to let faster cars through, not in finals unless thier lapping tho, too much to learn in buggies lol