12th newbie questions

[Timee80]

Thinking of having a go at 12th but need to know a few things first.
What chassis should i choose that will accept a lipo and be fairly easy to setup? (never going back to nimh cells now)
What range of tyres should i buy?
I have a 9650 low profile servo that i assume will do the job but only have larger sized esc's. Can i buy a bodyshell to allow for the extra height or do i need to invest more money in a slimmer esc?
What spares are essential to carry?
Anything else a newbie usually slips up on when starting out?
Any advice appreciated

[Chequered Flag Racing]

What chassis should i choose that will accept a lipo and be fairly easy to setup?
Best to choose one that is popular at where you plan to race. Most of today's lipo chassis cars have basic setup that will work at most tracks but then need a little fine tuning when the grip changes/comes up. BMI Link cars, RC125R's, CRC's probably being the most popular.


What range of tyres should i buy?
Depends on the venue's carpet as to which ones to get. So seek advice where you intend to race.

I have a 9650 low profile servo that i assume will do the job
Yes or you could use the Futaba 9602, or KO 947's etc


only have larger sized esc's. Can i buy a bodyshell to allow for the extra height or do i need to invest more money in a slimmer esc?
Buy a closed cockpit shell as these give you more room under the shell for your electronics

What spares are essential to carry?
lower front wishbones, side springs, damper tube lube, shock springs

Originally Posted by Chequered Flag Racing

read this all of this
http://www.carsrcracing.co.uk/?page_id=65

and go here
http://www.rcracechat.com/vb/forumdi...-Scale-Circuit

o0ple is more off-road than on-road but your lucky I swing both ways

if your really keen read all of this
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...-12-forum.html

[Timee80]

local to me is probably chesterfield and stocksbridge. What tyres do you recommend for there? and where do you buy the kits / tyres from?

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Originally Posted by Timee80

local to me is probably chesterfield and stocksbridge. What tyres do you recommend for there? and where do you buy the kits / tyres from?

kits and tyres from

Action Model Centre / ask for Wim Goss

Microtech / keith Robertson

there will be other shops out there

have PM'd slowone on here and hopefully he'll reply here within a day or two

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Originally Posted by Timee80

Anything else a newbie usually slips up on when starting out?
Any advice appreciated

read this also
http://richardchang.com/hobby.php?topic=112setup

[KRob]

Originally Posted by Chequered Flag Racing

kits and tyres from

Action Model Centre / ask for Wim Goss

MICROTECH / keith Robertson

there will be other shops out there

have PM'd slowone on here and hopefully he'll reply here within a day or two

Slight adjustment....

[steelie600]

Ive got a Serpent s120 setup with spares for sale (well not exactly me but its a mate of mine) enough to keep you going for a season if not more, just add receiver and go!!!

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Originally Posted by KRob

Slight adjustment....

sorry Keith

original post sorted

[SlowOne]

Chesterfield and Stocksbridge...

You'll need pink and yellow rears, and lilac and 2x pink fronts - all Jaco. At Chesterfield you'll start on pink rears and lilac fronts, and when the grip gets to the point where the pinks start to slide, switch to yellow. At Stocksbridge you'll start on pink rears and yellow fronts, and when the grip comes up you can try a switch to 2x pink fronts. These are for a BMI or 12R5.1, YMMV.

Parts - you have the list above, both good shops to deal with. Bodies, the Protoform AMR is the safest, the Parma EE1 has a bit more steering, and the Black Art Bomb'r gives the most steering.

Schoolboy errors - not building the car properly! Front suspension must be free, polish kingpins and shim so the spring is not compressed (when car is off the table) but there is no free play. Rear pivots must be free with no backlash. ALWAYS start with kit settings unless you have clear evidence that isn't the place to start. NEVER change more than one setting at a time when testing, unless you know exactly what the car is going to do if you change two or more things at a time.

9650 is the best servo out there for 12th IMHO. For kit choice, go to your local clubs and see who's running what. Try to buy the same as them so you can benefit from set-up advice. If in doubt, buy an Associated 12R5.1 or BMI DB12RR second-hand. Both will go very well out of the box.

HTH, please come back if you have any more questions.

[Timee80]

Thanks for the detailed replies.
Is the serpent ok to start with that steelie600 has offered? If i buy new do any of the kits include a shell?
Does this class get expensive or are breakages quite rare as the chassis is protected by the shell? Is there a better site to post a wanted if i decide to buy second hand?
Thanks in advance

[steelie600]

I only ever broke 1 tbar on my serpent its the shell that gets the abuse. Crewe can be like banger racing at times and I was going through a shell every 3 meetings. I had a few HUGE flat out crashes and My Serpent never broke. JACO dbl pinks on the front and Yellows on the back. CS High grip additive jobs a good un. OH I never ran brushless, but I was easily as quick if not quicker than the brushless AND lipo guys and i was 4 cell with a 19t stock!!!

[Timee80]

but if its t-bar does that mean i cant use a lipo?

[SlowOne]

You can use LiPo with a T-bar, but it must be a saddle pack. However, no more than a handful of drivers are running that, so set-up information is hard to come by. You will be much better off using a 'link' car and the more common 3.7v LiPo 'brick', as that's what the majority of people run.

In 12th, as in life, if it's cheap then there's a reason for that! RC12R5 / 5.1 or BMI DB12RR second hand are the cars to be seen with for drivers new to the class. Those aren't usually sold cheap!!

Breakages are directly related to horsepower and driving ability. If you haven't run 12th before and you go for anything more powerful than a 13.5, you will break things much more. 12th consumables are tyres and bodyshells - and the more powerful the motor the faster you use them! The better you drive, the less you break things. Again, by choosing a popular car, you will find it easy to get spares, and many people will be at the track and loan you the spare you need. 12th, with 13.5, is probably cheaper than any TC class, and equal to 2WD Off-Road.

There's a free 12th Workshop and Practice Day on 22nd May organised by British Champion and all-round good egg, Nigel Hale - details here. If you are local to that, contact Nigel. Even if you haven't got a car, and would like to see what 12th is all about and have questions answered, it would be worth asking Nigel for a place. We intend to help with everything 12th - building, tuning, set-ups, driving, etc.

Hope you decide to take the plunge, and that we might see you at the Workshop and Practice Day. If not, find us at the first AMC Shootout meeting at Chesterfield on the 23rd May. Your best bet is to get a car, bring it to the Workshop to be set-up and get some driving tips, and then enter the Shootout the next day to put it all into practice. HTH

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Originally Posted by Timee80

but if its t-bar does that mean i cant use a lipo?

saddle pack lipo & Brick type here
http://www.actionmodelcentre.co.uk/products.asp?cat=52

only one saddle pack that I know off but there are more Brick type than on AMC's site

the full list for use at BRCA sanctioned events is here
http://brca.org/BRCA/elecboard/news/...20v4%20pdf.pdf

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Originally Posted by SlowOne

Schoolboy errors

Originally Posted by SlowOne

At Stocksbridge you'll start on pink rears and yellow fronts,

surely that should read Pink fronts & Yellow rears

[SlowOne]

Er... where do you buy those pink fronts??!!!

It should read pink rears and lilac fronts - sorry Timee.

Schoolboy errors? People in glass houses...

[Losi..Sam]

you should be able to purchase everything for your 12th scale needs through wim goss at AMC

sam

[Timee80]

Thanks for clearing things up. Going to speak to Shaun about the serpent s120 t-bar chassis that steelie has informed me about tomorrow. Anyone have any thoughts about this car i should know about?

[Mad-Wolfie]

I've not been doing 12th for very long (only a few months) but here is my 2p worth

Originally Posted by Timee80

What chassis should i choose that will accept a lipo and be fairly easy to setup? (never going back to nimh cells now)

If you want to use LiPo, go for a link car.. end of discussion.

although if looking for a good starter car, go for an Associated L3 or L4 as these seem to be the benchmark.

You "could" go for the FTX Phantom which is basically a cheap L4 copy for about £100 as a good starter car, but i'd sooner look for a 2nd hand L4 for about the same money.

but why not run cells on 12th? a lot of people still use cells & find they get better performance, Personally speaking the only advantage of a LiPo in a 12th is run times, some people who have tried LiPo tend to go back to cells because they say the car needs a bit of weight to keep it planted & less twitchy.

Originally Posted by Timee80

What range of tyres should i buy?

i've started using Xceed tyres.. there are 3 compounds soft, medium, hard - none of this confusing coloured dot nonsence which confuses a newbie. a Medium/hard compo is roughly identical to a Pink & Grey

Originally Posted by Timee80

I have a 9650 low profile servo that i assume will do the job but only have larger sized esc's. Can i buy a bodyshell to allow for the extra height or do i need to invest more money in a slimmer esc?

yes, look at the older generation protoform shells (probably in the bargain section of the model shops these days) as they are quite tall - if it's for club racing these will be fine.

you could remove the fan/heatsink from your ESC (assuming it has one) or trim the heatsink - as it's running 4-cell/1s it shouldn't pull the same sort of juice (providing the gearing is spot on) so shouldn't get as hot as if running 6 cell/2s.

Some people even go as far as to remove the case from the ESC & shrinkwrap the PCB & stick it to the chassis.

Originally Posted by Timee80

What spares are essential to carry?

t-bars (if you buy a T-bar car), shock springs & wheel studs. Plus body pins as you tend to lose a lot! Plus tyres will be your biggest expence.

Originally Posted by Timee80

Anything else a newbie usually slips up on when starting out?
Any advice appreciated

Always make sure the ride-height is set right - use a £1 coin (or one of those shopping trolley tokens) as a basic gauge, if you can just slide a £1 coin under the car from all angles it should be OK, if not raise the car. Because as the tyres wear the ride height will drop & you may lose a couple of mm of height in a nights racing.. any lower you may find gunge on the bottom of your car which is a sure sign it's bottoming out.

Make sure the transmitter settings & ackermann are set right, it's no point running a 100% dual rate sweep & any high steering end point adjustments because the car will turn very quickly anyway & going to high will just make the car harder to drive.

Hope this helps.

[Losi..Sam]

Hi mate
personally I would go for a link car because you will find that they are in some ways easter to set up. what sort of budjet do you have, the more info we get the more we can help you
pm me anytime if you want to ask me a question. I will help you with that i can

Sam