lipo saddle packs, a poll to show feelings

[SHY]

Originally Posted by Lee

Has anyone said "officially" what the lipo saddle sizes are and that those sizes are final?

Erm... heard about the EFRA AGM minutes?

This has been stated several times now...

[Lee]

I hadn't read every post word for word, it seems pretty repetitive as it is

So if the european governing body says " this is what we are using" why argue

Also if people look at the people who have voted, yes there are some big names up there, who will do brca meetings regardless of what cells are used.


A lot of others wont even do regionals never mind nationals

[DaveG28]

Originally Posted by Lee

I hadn't read every post word for word, it seems pretty repetitive as it is

So if the european governing body says " this is what we are using" why argue

Also if people look at the people who have voted, yes there are some big names up there, who will do brca meetings regardless of what cells are used.


A lot of others wont even do regionals never mind nationals

Lee, do you mind me asking why your against allowing the current saddle? I'm not asking to attack your reasoning, just because I'm not clear why people are against it!

Lipo attracts a lot of heated discussion so if you'd rather not have a lot of people attack you for the reasons, just pm me?

I'm just wondering if I'm only seeing half the argument as it's in my intersts to allow them!

Same for anyone else against them!??

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Lee

I hadn't read every post word for word, it seems pretty repetitive as it is

So if the european governing body says " this is what we are using" why argue

Also if people look at the people who have voted, yes there are some big names up there, who will do brca meetings regardless of what cells are used.


A lot of others wont even do regionals never mind nationals

lee im pleased you read the polls.................. thats why i put option 4 "i will race brca sanctioned events no matter what " as there are those who will do them no matter what.
i guess your right those who also ticked the box, "i would consider not doing a BRCA sanctioned meeting if i could not do lipo " wont, thats the idea of a poll, i for one would be doing regionanls if i could use lipo, if not i wont as im not going back to nimh

we are the BRCA we dont have to follow europe to the letter, yes i have a licence for both EFRA and BRCA, but i run under the brca in the uk.when i run to efra meetings i follow thier rules, as even in IC the two differ slightly

your also not a very good suporter for your sponsors!! but thats my opinion

this poll was for me to see the reaction of brca members to see if thay had what they wanted, the results are answering that for me!

if you look at who has voted, there are also a few who think the rule should be relaxed, but will do sanctioned meetings either way, so they
1/ have a car that will take stick in both classes,
2/ use nimh
3/ want others to enjoy lipo
4/ want a fiar level play ground

to pick an example driver, Smokin (sorry james to use you) has voted to have a tolerance, yet he would gain nothing as both his cars run a stick lipo format which will be legal.

As your seem to know who will or wont do what, can you gaze into your crystal ball and get me the lotto numbers for next sat please!
finally if your bored with this thread, your the one who keeps navigating your self here, no one is forcing you to click the link!!!!

[spenner]

Can anyone on here actually tell me what this thread will achieve ??????

Apart from loads of people getting heated about the debate about lipo saddles, where is this going ????

I can honestly say i am one who will run whatever is legal for next year, be that Lipo/Nimh.... As the current Saddle Lipo cells are outside the size restriction etc there isn't much you can do ????

I have seen various people say can't we relax the law/rule, or why do we have to go with everyone else... well i guess the rules are there to give us a guideline. No matter which way you look Lipo will at some point be used by all.

Sorry to those that purchased early, BEFORE the list or even Lipo were made legal that i guess is your mistake.. why should the rest of us who have followed the rules and waited for the cells to become legal have to move over for those that couldn't wait.. And then for some of you to say 'Im not running at BRCA events if there not allowed!!!'

I'm not against lipo, but i have waited for the BRCA to decide what happens with them.
I hope no new starters are looking at this cause if im honest it makes me feel like im back at school.. Racing is about fun, enjoying yourself, making new friends and travelling to new places... if you take the fun out of it by changing the rules to suit then you are likely to ruin the sports future..

I'm not looking for replies as i just felt this thread was damaging our sport more than helping it!!

[RcRob]

Originally Posted by spenner

i have waited for the BRCA to decide what happens with them.

maybe thats the problem? reading the posts it sounds like it wasn't the BRCA (racers) that decided anythin, as they werent allowed to vote on what they wanted

[SHY]

Originally Posted by Lee

Yes they did shy, that was where the 25mm dimension came from

I think the proposal in post #135 is about right

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthre...?t=9658&page=7

... and now you don't care? Change of heart?

May I kindly suggest that those who don't care or find this uninteresting or stupid stay out of the tread?

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by spenner

Sorry to those that purchased early, BEFORE the list or even Lipo were made legal that i guess is your mistake.. why should the rest of us who have followed the rules and waited for the cells to become legal have to move over for those that couldn't wait.. And then for some of you to say 'Im not running at BRCA events if there not allowed!!!'

so i have had lipo saddle for a year now, and been using them trakpower have had them in production for 8+? months.

so if manufactures had waited for the rule, we would not yet have lipo, to me thats a flaw in your argument, Lipo stick packs were out long before rules were drawn up!!!!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by SHY

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthre...?t=9658&page=7


... and now you don't care? Change of heart?


May I kindly suggest that those who don't care or find this uninteresting or stupid stay out of the tread?

[Lee]

Originally Posted by SHY

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthre...?t=9658&page=7


... and now you don't care? Change of heart?


May I kindly suggest that those who don't care or find this uninteresting or stupid stay out of the tread?

I dont think i ever said i "dont care".

What is uninteresting is that you keep going round in circles, do you work for the government?

I was going to put forward a proposal but after speaking to a few people the ones put forward seemed to cover the bases. Also after speaking to some people within the brca and understanding lipo more I actually thought it had less of a chance at being homoligated.
Mark, I think your quote about not supporting sponsors is unfair, I run Trakpower products and promote them in the best possible way, but why would I promote something that will be deemed illegal? The companies who made the lipos made them to fit in the cars and hoped that the brca used the dimensions from them, but they didn’t and that was a risk and they had a 50/50 chance of being legal. Now they have to go back to the drawing board and find a way to make them smaller. Its just like those people who took the gamble on buying cells before they were made legal, it happens every year and someone is always moaning their cells wont be legal, again it’s the chance you take I personally cant change the rules and neither can you or your new mate from norway
Your point about the people who say they will not do a brca meeting if lipo is not allowed is also invalid, there are numerous sponsored drivers in there and they will be contracted to run at natonal and regional events, I know I am.
I think people just have to accept things sometimes, rules are there for a reason and for whatever reason the brca/efra have chosen these, im sure they have their reasons and they don’t just pluck figures from mid air.
May I say, I think many parts of spenners post is spot on.

[SHY]

Originally Posted by Lee

What is uninteresting is that you keep going round in circles, do you work for the government?

I sometimes wonder myself It kinda used to be...

Going in circles... well, some on here don't bother to actually read through the proposals minutes and posts (including my new girlfriend Mark)... and therefore you're kinda forced to repeat things time and time over...

Over the last months I think at least a lot of you guys have woken up and realized that you actually CAN make a change, and take part in the AGM, send in proposals and so on. Not just sit and wait... That's VERY positive!!!

Here's a good quote from a guy named Roland S from rctech:
"Don’t just stand there on the sideline and do nothing. If you choose to do nothing that means you’re waiting for somebody to make decision for you. But who knows if this somebody is really smarter than you are. So, do you really want somebody, who may not be smarter than you are, decide what’s good for you? And if the decision turned out to be no good for you and you did not have a say in it. That would be sad, don’t you agree?"

Nobody's saying PW or anyone else is an idiot. But it's perfectly sound to disagree as long as you have valid arguments and don't get personal. Any driver or club deserves the right to hand in a full proposal and it should be discussed thoroughly and voted upon in a democratic fashion.

Worst case it's not possible to do anything about this for 2009. But there's a new AGM in 2009... don't give up!

[spenner]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

so i have had lipo saddle for a year now, and been using them trakpower have had them in production for 8+? months.

so if manufactures had waited for the rule, we would not yet have lipo, to me thats a flaw in your argument, Lipo stick packs were out long before rules were drawn up!!!!

As i said, not looking for replies......

There is no flaw in my argument, there was nimh out long before they were legal. And as the RULES state they had to be submitted to EFRA/BRCA... Roar etc... If they wasn't legal then thats down to them to put right !!!! (is it not)

There was a size dimension in place for nimh already, clearly this would have been something for the Lipo manufacturers to go by ???

I am not having a go at anyone, as i said eventually we will all be using Lipo/or the next thing... Just stating that rules are rules so lets stick to them.

See you all in the playground... i mean track!!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Lee

I dont think i ever said i "dont care".

What is uninteresting is that you keep going round in circles, do you work for the government?

I was going to put forward a proposal but after speaking to a few people the ones put forward seemed to cover the bases. Also after speaking to some people within the brca and understanding lipo more I actually thought it had less of a chance at being homoligated.
Mark, I think your quote about not supporting sponsors is unfair, I run Trakpower products and promote them in the best possible way, but why would I promote something that will be deemed illegal? The companies who made the lipos made them to fit in the cars and hoped that the brca used the dimensions from them, but they didn’t and that was a risk and they had a 50/50 chance of being legal. Now they have to go back to the drawing board and find a way to make them smaller. Its just like those people who took the gamble on buying cells before they were made legal, it happens every year and someone is always moaning their cells wont be legal, again it’s the chance you take I personally cant change the rules and neither can you or your new mate from norway
Your point about the people who say they will not do a brca meeting if lipo is not allowed is also invalid, there are numerous sponsored drivers in there and they will be contracted to run at natonal and regional events, I know I am.
I think people just have to accept things sometimes, rules are there for a reason and for whatever reason the brca/efra have chosen these, im sure they have their reasons and they don’t just pluck figures from mid air.
May I say, I think many parts of spenners post is spot on.

did you realize that after the agm ?
but there are other things that could be done


you would hope not but like i said the saddle packs have been round far longer than the rules, the bodies will have looked at the sizes, but for the sake of 2mm and no advantage chose to ignore it.


see your still back for more though

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by spenner

As i said, not looking for replies......

There is no flaw in my argument, there was nimh out long before they were legal. And as the RULES state they had to be submitted to EFRA/BRCA... Roar etc... If they wasn't legal then thats down to them to put right !!!! (is it not)

There was a size dimension in place for nimh already, clearly this would have been something for the Lipo manufacturers to go by ???

they did!
the bare lipo cells are smaller than the nimh cells, its the packaging and conections that make them over size, somthing the nimh are not measured by!!!!

as has been said, when the larger nimh came out a bit of lee way was allowed!

[SHY]

Considering NiMHs are still blowing up all around... maybe we should propose to hardcase them as well... making them all illegal from 2010?



I sure as hell don't feel safe when people are charging dynamite behind my back...

[Howard1650]

Originally Posted by frogger

I don't even own a charger that can charge NIMHs anymore and have used only lipo's for quite a while now. I only do open one day meetings that allow them. If I could run my car as is with lipo I would actually start doing BRCA sanctioned events.

I fully support the BRCA allowing a small margin of error to allow for Trakpower and other saddle bricks. The more stuff you allow the simpler it is for people to take part and for the sport to be supported.

I have to agree. I would like to support the BRCA and run at their events. But just last night I was turn away from a BRCA club for running Trakpower saddles in my 501X. The sport needs to encource new comes, not turn them away.

(I will never run at this club again, or purchase from the local shop that supports the club. A crazy situation if the hobby is to grow. )

[CharlieF]

Originally Posted by RcRob

maybe thats the problem? reading the posts it sounds like it wasn't the BRCA (racers) that decided anythin, as they werent allowed to vote on what they wanted

The reasons why the above is factually incorrect were explained in posts 66 and 135.

[Gaz_Stanton]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

your also not a very good suporter for your sponsors!! but thats my opinion

I cannot believe this statement aimed at Lee! (although it probably explains the warped aim of the thread...)
Yes, sponsors want support & publicity for the brand BUT not all publicity is good publicity! And I would say that this thread is doing much more harm than good. It takes months and years to build a good brand reputation but only minutes to destroy one...

I'm at a stage where I haven't tried Lipo's yet but fully intend to soon when I get back into racing and will use them next season if I like them. This would put me into prospective customer territory but after reading all the whinging on this and other threads my first impression would be 'I wouldn't touch a certain brand with someone else's bargepole!'. I'm no marketing expert but I'm sure this impression before even seeing or trying the product doesn't help sales....

Can we please let the people who work hard to get us racing produce the list before it's shot down! I for one will be extremely p*ssed off if some of the posting on here causes the officials to say 'stuff it' and walk out. That would cause us a hell of a lot more problems than a couple of mm on a lipo saddle pack!

[Chrislong]

Gaz, very well said.

Mark, guys, let the dust settle. We have people representing us who I can't see much respect for, personally I do respect the thoughts and opinions of the people who represent us and id like them to know that. if they're here, reading this thread, which is very likely, then my money is on their thoughts being "stuff it, why am I putting so much effort in to helping these people".

sit back, have a weekend, allow people to do what they do. Don't fall out with anyone, its toy car racing.

[Darren Boyle]

I have to agree. I would like to support the BRCA and run at their events. But just last night I was turn away from a BRCA club for running Trakpower saddles in my 501X. The sport needs to encource new comes, not turn them away.

(I will never run at this club again, or purchase from the local shop that supports the club. A crazy situation if the hobby is to grow. )

Assuming you are "Howard" who turned up for the first time in many months last night, we have had in place a tempory list of "approved LIPO" for use at our club since we have allowed them. We ALWAYS encourage "new comers" so to speak, but to race within the rules we have!!!!!

Sad to hear you will never race with us again, but to be fair we have only ever seen you two or three times in the last year as it is, you are hardly an eager regular. The club rules and regs have been posted up on the club website for many weeks and flyers have been handed out since the introduction of LIPO, EVERY week at the club, if you have not taken time to read them or seen them then that can not be the fault of either myself or the club.

The comment about not supporting the shop sounds to me like sour grapes, you seemed happy to purchase the items we took along to racing for you last night!! Besides the cells and indeed car you have were not "supporting" the shop to start with, they did not come from us, if they had you would of been told that those cells are not yet fit for use at our venue!!

People do seem to forget, I am retailer, I want to sell things, my livelyhood relies on selling things, but to have to BAN items for use at our club that we sell oursleves I dont enjoy doing (I want to sell them) but when it comes to giving up one night of every week in my life to run the club then decisions have to be for the good of the club and not the takings at my shop. When the BRCA decide what saddles they will/will not allow then we will add them (and have them available too!!) to the cells permitted for use at our venue, until then racers must stick to the rules we have in place.

Every pack of LIPO we have sold, we have advised our local racers that it is legal/illegal for use at our local club. It is not our fault if you have chose to purchase elsewhere and have not read the current rules before doing so. You even told me that you had run these cells at the club previuosly some time ago, yet when we were asked last time if we allowed LIPO we replied NO, so we were obviuosly just ignored!!! NICE

I find it a shame that you say none of this to me in person last night then arrive on here and tell the world your one sided story (albeit you did not name the club, but to me it was obviuos who you were). At least be good enough to tell the whole story.

Darren, DMS Racing