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Old 10-08-2015
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Default SC rules

Just been on the website to look at the points and clicked on the rules page for a quick read. These have been the same for the last 3 years but one rule has changed which i dont believe anyone is aware of. Rule 5.2.6 is this a computer glitch ? It's always been 5 rounds to count from 7 how come it's changed to 4 from 7
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Old 10-08-2015
Darren Boyle Darren Boyle is offline
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I think it is to do with the fact there was only 6 confirmed rounds when the season kicked off this season and it was best 4 from 6, with the extra round then added in and people already planning around those dates etc, it was left as 4 from the amended 7, thats what we was told at the ARC round I believe when we asked anyway and everyone that I know was aware of that, especially those who had read the rules from round one onwards and planned their calendars around them as many do.....
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Old 10-08-2015
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Half + 1? guess that wouldn't really work
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Old 10-08-2015
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I personally think it's a crap rule, on the basis that those who support the series by attending all rounds can be beaten by drivers who only attend 4 rounds out of 7?

Some may argue thats fair as to be beaten in less rounds means they done better than you, yes partly true but as we see at most rounds luck also plays a part in finishing positions and points accrual to all bar those at the very front due to some of the dodgy starts that happen in short course.

As a small series those who support it by entering all the rounds should be rewarded by keeping more of the points the earned over the season.

added to that also I was told that it was always meant to be 7 rounds but only 6 were confirmed at the time the dates went out, so if it was always meant to be 7rds then it should be at least 5 to count surely?

On another note the computer issues was a shambles at Mendip, lots of errors and mistakes upsetting people all the way up and beyond the trophy presentation, and twice this season I've been stiffed in the last final of the day by a decision to suddenly spread out the grid putting the cars in front EVEN further in front? Not cool in my book. I think the whole rule book needs looking at and sorting out then properly enforced throughout the season. Competitors should not have to point out cars running illegal wings etc to race control that should be sorted before the car hits the track?

I know it's meant to be a fun series but as more people come along and get better it's getting more competitive so it need managing so that it can be both fun and competitive yet fair and transparent.

Rant over.
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Old 11-08-2015
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Justin i just bought the Tekno 410.3 , i will have to run it on the Slash electronics as the wife will be proper angry( i did not ask i just did it ) If you upgrade the motor help a brother out ha ha , My motor is 4 pole (maybe castle) is an hack available ??
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Old 11-08-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justingt5 View Post
Competitors should not have to point out cars running illegal wings etc to race control that should be sorted before the car hits the track?
Actually the rule book is not specific enough on this. It was my first SC race and I checked the rules and they say:

Rear Wings - No bolt on after market or home-made rear spoilers / rear wings allowed. Manufacturer rear spoilers / rear wings moulded into the finished bodyshell are allowed.

My wing was the kit wing that came with the Durango body so a manufacturer wing not an aftermarket or home made wing but not moulded on the body I was a bit undecided so left it to see what happened, it got challenged so I took it off.

I still think the rule is poorly worded. It should say something to the effect "All bolt on wings are banned" not just home made and aftermarket.
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Old 11-08-2015
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I completely agree Justin.

At the end of the day several people asked for clarification on the number of rounds taking place and how many to count before the season start and due to the 7th round not being confirmed we were told 4 out of 6 (as last year) or 5 out of 7 if the 7th round was confirmed............I have not seen or been told at any point that it was back down to 4 from 7.
We held back on booking holidays because of this championship as I wanted to do all of the rounds, now after rd5 I find out I could have dropped a round earlier in the year and still had 2 dropped rounds to play with (which i'll need! ��) is annoying

Last edited by Slider SCT; 11-08-2015 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 11-08-2015
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I reckon it's not been updated properly for this year as last year was 4 out of 6 according to the results. 2013 was 5 out of 7, 2012 was 4 out of 6 and 2011 was 5 out of 7.

So I would hazard a guess it would be 5 out of 7 based on the previous championships.
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Old 11-08-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutting42 View Post
Actually the rule book is not specific enough on this. It was my first SC race and I checked the rules and they say:

Rear Wings - No bolt on after market or home-made rear spoilers / rear wings allowed. Manufacturer rear spoilers / rear wings moulded into the finished bodyshell are allowed.

My wing was the kit wing that came with the Durango body so a manufacturer wing not an aftermarket or home made wing but not moulded on the body I was a bit undecided so left it to see what happened, it got challenged so I took it off.

I still think the rule is poorly worded. It should say something to the effect "All bolt on wings are banned" not just home made and aftermarket.
I agree the wording could be simplified however it does clearly state moulded into the shell which directly means unless its molded it's not allowed. Many driver run Durango and none have the wing fitted due to that rule.

These issues are damaging for our series and require immediate attention in my opinion.
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Old 11-08-2015
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Not sure about it being an issue...

If the rules currently say 4 rounds to count then that is what it is for this year at least, you can't change them near the end of the season!!

Wasn't really an issue till this thread was put up, as is normally the case on forums.

Short course is about fun, why not keep it at that!
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Old 11-08-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justingt5 View Post
I agree the wording could be simplified however it does clearly state moulded into the shell which directly means unless its molded it's not allowed. Many driver run Durango and none have the wing fitted due to that rule.
At the risk of being pedantic, saying something is permitted does not mean another unspecified variation is forbidden especially when third party and home made wings have already been explicitly forbidden. In contracts it is called permission by omission. As I said the rule is not specific enough. I am not arguing for wings, I don't really care and I ran faster without the wing ultimately so I am unconvinced it makes a difference. I just had it fitted from building the kit a year or so back and thought it looked nice.
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Old 11-08-2015
Darren Boyle Darren Boyle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justingt5 View Post
I agree the wording could be simplified however it does clearly state moulded into the shell which directly means unless its molded it's not allowed. Many driver run Durango and none have the wing fitted due to that rule.

These issues are damaging for our series and require immediate attention in my opinion.
You do realise JK that the guy in question was in heat 1 and attending his first EVER SC national and to quote you juts a few weeks ago, with your "you get no manual with RC" quote, the guy did not know, he brought a body, had it sprayed and mounted it, it came with a wing and he installed it. He was asked to remove it during round one and did so.... wheres the issue? Nothing like making a newbie to the series feel welcome eh......

People should concentrate on things that effect them directly rather than complaining about rules 5 rounds into the series. Never mind trophies, they should dish out dummies at the next round for those who like to spit them out..

Also, regards to the comments I read about people who have raced at all rounds being beaten in the series by those who have only done 4 rounds, it may be best to do the maths on this one before typing away.

In 4wd (after 4 rounds) the lowest person with 3 rounds counting so far is Sue Rutherford (sorry Sue ) who has 505 pts, if she adds even the equivalent score to her lowest (160) twice to her counting score she would end up with 825 which is impossible to be beaten by anyone with just four rounds to her five. With four rounds Peter (sorry Pete) is the lowest driver with all 4 full rounds so far and he is on 693 that cannot be beat by anyone doing three rounds either.....

In 2wd (after 4 rounds on the website) the lowest person with 3 full rounds counting Richard Chillingworth (sorry Richard) who has 466, and if you added two more of his average score (155) which would give him 776 and only the current series leader (Jamie Hall) has that many points before points from Sunday are uploaded and only Danny and Mark will surpass that after the fifth rounds scores are in too......

4 rounds from 7 will also allow far more people to complete the series too, where is the harm in that apart for another reason for the whinge brigade to come out in force....
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Old 11-08-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spenner View Post
Not sure about it being an issue...

If the rules currently say 4 rounds to count then that is what it is for this year at least, you can't change them near the end of the season!!

Wasn't really an issue till this thread was put up, as is normally the case on forums.

Short course is about fun, why not keep it at that!
The reason this is an issue for me is we all plan varying activities throughout the year wether that be racing several classes/series,holidays,family visits etc etc.

This issue, 4 from 6 or 5 from 7 was sorted on the 10/3/2015 when we were told by the organisers that if the 7th round went ahead we would be scored 5 from 7 ,if it was a 6 round series it was the best 4 out of 6. At that time the rules stated best 5 from 7, I double checked............between 10/3/2015 up until yesterday I had heard nothing different,there has been no announcement on any of the UKSN media outlets to state 4 from 7 nor has it been announced at any of the previous 5 events.............however it seems a few select people were informed & I personally think that's well out of order!

As far as I'm concerned, your right, you can't change the rules over halfway through the championship
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Old 11-08-2015
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Btw I'm not bothered by the points issue personally, I end up where I end up. If it had been publicly declared 4 from 7 prior to rd 1 I would not have made a murmur.

As for the wing issue,this maybe a reasonable edit:

Rear Wings - No bolt on, after market or home-made rear spoilers / rear wings allowed. Manufacturer rear spoilers / rear wings moulded into the finished bodyshell are allowed.

Spot the comma 😉
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Old 11-08-2015
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Slider, I agree with you fully that the organisation side hasn't been to the highest standard when sorting the required amount of rounds to count or announcing that rule. I attended the NDOR round knowing that I only had to do 4 rounds to compete, and this was the 2nd round of the championship.
So it has to be put down to when you viewed the rules as to if you knew or not.

However, it doesn't change the fact what is down is down and at least more people will complete the series.

Now I think it's time to get back to enjoying the fun sc nationals...
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Old 11-08-2015
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I agree with that, one of my mates and a sc regular would probably have done more rounds if he knew only 4 rds were req to complete the championship.
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Old 11-08-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slider SCT View Post
Btw I'm not bothered by the points issue personally, I end up where I end up. If it had been publicly declared 4 from 7 prior to rd 1 I would not have made a murmur.

As for the wing issue,this maybe a reasonable edit:

Rear Wings - No bolt on, after market or home-made rear spoilers / rear wings allowed. Manufacturer rear spoilers / rear wings moulded into the finished bodyshell are allowed.

Spot the comma 😉
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Old 11-08-2015
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**colourful language removed **

Yes we want drivers to support the series, but wheres the incentive to enter all the rounds and support the clubs when almost half your scores get dropped at the end.

Anyway the point here is regarding the uncommunicated rule change? It may well be in the rules now as sone one said but it was different at the start of season and no communication made to advise anyone it had changed?
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Old 11-08-2015
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Default Rear wing

I asked the gentlemen in question to remove his wing after his first run which he did no harm he removed it before round 2 and tbh he admitted that it was his 1st Sc national and wasn't aware of the rule..

Like I said to the chap as long as it's removed after round 1 it's no bother tbh he was a very good driver and most welcom competitor.....

Don't see what all the fuss is about....
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Old 11-08-2015
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Jimmy the wing comment was purely there to point out the issues poor organisation/communication rather than a direct hit at the individual, as Darren pointed out.
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