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  #21  
Old 17-09-2015
Darren Boyle Darren Boyle is offline
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Originally Posted by Legend Racer View Post
This is my first, and maybe my last year. I've only managed two events and to be honest my heart just isn't in it any more, due really to the driving standards. I've been racing on and off since late '89 and the standard of driving I have come across is among the worst in all those years that I've encountered. EVERY corner when some one is is coming up to you, they just can't wait, "sod using the electronic brake I'll use the truck in front, it's a lot easier" is their attitude. From what I've seen, the drivers these days have no patience at all and WILL NOT wait for you to move to one side and will move you them selves. Now I'm not a mardy driver by any means and I can take and give lot of rubbing and stuff but what I've come across this year is really beyond belief and goes far beyond rubbing.
Dont get me wrong, there has been a fair bit of that in SC this year (third party brakes as I call it), but it has not been any worse than any other season really...
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  #22  
Old 17-09-2015
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So being taken out on around 50% of every corner taken is normal?
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  #23  
Old 17-09-2015
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Originally Posted by Legend Racer View Post
So being taken out on around 50% of every corner taken is normal?
I've never seen it that bad, even though I don't experience it first-hand. In real short course, a 50% contact rate through every corner sounds pretty normal!

If it really is that bad, how much of it is deliberate and how much of it can be attributed to generally clumsy driving?
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  #24  
Old 17-09-2015
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Originally Posted by buggy#0 View Post
If it really is that bad, how much of it is deliberate and how much of it can be attributed to generally clumsy driving?
I'm sure it's just clumsy, but that clumsiness is down to them not waiting a second or two, so like I say it's down to impatience.

Don't get me wrong I expect contact, I expect it in the corner but not that bad that they shove you off the race track and tip you over several times a race
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  #25  
Old 17-09-2015
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Starting racing the sc nationals last year and only this year being my 4th year of racing I can understand your points Paul. Qualifying from the 'lower' heats can be hard work as the void of experience/ability/ etiquette compared to those in the higher seeded heats is massive BUT the series is promoted for all abilities so that's to be expected.
The same goes for the guys at the front of the A finals to those at the back, although generally cleaner the ability gap is quite large.
Personally I don't think the std of driving is any worse or better than any other class I race from 1/8 to micro, club or regional/national level. There's always going to be clean and dirty drivers it's just one of those things you just have to find out who they are

I don't think the sc nationals do particularly bad for numbers averaging between 40-60 trucks per meeting considering the travelling involved (im up to around 1400 miles so far this season!), it's an expensive hobby as a basher to start with then factor racing gear,travelling costs,spares,tyres etc etc and it puts it out of reach for some or the interest of others.

You'll never make sc as popular as buggies over here, for starters 1:1 sc is an American thing to start with, no manufacturers are sending their big name star drivers to race the nationals (thank God cause I'd never see another A final ! Lol) and promote the class so there's no glamour...........Enjoy it for what it is, a niche class and hope your local club keeps supporting it because if those clubs drop the class we're dead in the water with only the nats for a chance to race the trucks.

Steve
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  #26  
Old 17-09-2015
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I think what I can't get my head around is by how much things have changed since i used to do the truck nationals in the mid to late 90's (in the days when they were what we now call Stadium Trucks). They were fun meetings with drivers of all abilities BUT the general driving standard was a lot higher than nowadays...maybe it's just the modern brushless motors that are too quick for people now?
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  #27  
Old 17-09-2015
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Originally Posted by Justingt5 View Post
The nationals are getting dirtier every race, and rivalries have formed, I had to take a step back and re evaluate why I was doing it as I had started to not enjoy it after Mendip. I was trying too hard for the win, as were others and it was taking the fun away.

At A1 I went with a different attitude to winning and was there for fun and enjoyed my racing again
Trouble is Justin, like myself you had a reasonably good 1st year, you invested a lot of £££ into new kit etc etc and you started the new season hoping to better last year's results and like myself,you have, however that hope/expectation puts a lot of self imposed pressure on your shoulders so the lows feel a lot lower even though you've done better on average.
I can't say I've enjoyed this year as much as last year but that's down to my own expectations and stupidity trying to run both classes..........something I won't be doing next year!
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  #28  
Old 17-09-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend Racer View Post
I think what I can't get my head around is by how much things have changed since i used to do the truck nationals in the mid to late 90's (in the days when they were what we now call Stadium Trucks). They were fun meetings with drivers of all abilities BUT the general driving standard was a lot higher than nowadays...maybe it's just the modern brushless motors that are too quick for people now?
I think it's because SC trucks encourage contact, whereas anything with open wheels obviously doesn't. It doesn't necessarily attract dirtier drivers, but some can take it too far and some can misjudge.

Contact is a difficult thing. The only way you can get clear-cut rules is by banning all contact... which isn't going to work out. Everyone will have a different view of what's deliberate and what's accidental, and a different view of the line between a simple rub and a something a lot more malicious. You can't police it perfectly. Someone will always either feel hard done by or will be appealing a penalty, but that's just something that's unavoidable in a racing environment. Even the most relaxed guys will get emotional if things don't go their way, especially if another driver helps them along a bit - but a bit of self-control can go a long way to minimise the occurrence of such incidents.
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  #29  
Old 18-09-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slider SCT View Post
Trouble is Justin, like myself you had a reasonably good 1st year, you invested a lot of £££ into new kit etc etc and you started the new season hoping to better last year's results and like myself,you have, however that hope/expectation puts a lot of self imposed pressure on your shoulders so the lows feel a lot lower even though you've done better on average.
I can't say I've enjoyed this year as much as last year but that's down to my own expectations and stupidity trying to run both classes..........something I won't be doing next year!
Spot on Steve, that's why I had to change the approach, and some of the other comments here are really apt too. I agree with Darren too on his points, I don't think the organisers intended it to be a full on NATIONAL but it is what is and I suppose that's inevitable.

The comments about just holding fire are right on the money too, as I changed my attitude at A1 and I personally caused a LOT less incidents on track, to the point where I actually never once took out a car on the first lap, apart from when Lewis HACKED me clean off the track after he was pissed that I passed him before the first corner, so I did reciprocate on this occasion. But this all goes back to the comments about the hunger for the win, bringing too many red mist moments.

Some drivers are worse than others, I am no angel and have smashed a fair few off including the team boss (Darren at Boughton) It wasnt intentional, just differing lines and a gap that disappeared by the time I got to it (see the video here however I have come a long way over the course of this year, in terms of wheel to wheel racing, and that only comes with practice.

I no longer have a local club that supports the class and due to the all the kit I now have its important to me that I still have a series to race in which is why I am so vocal about changing it up to suit the class better.
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  #30  
Old 19-09-2015
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Whilst looking around for some ideas on how other countries/rc racing format their racing I found this article on RC Car Action. Interesting to see its not a new thing for people to suggest some changes.

http://www.rccaraction.com/blog/2011...-is-all-wrong/

Any thoughts chaps?
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  #31  
Old 19-09-2015
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Well I've read it twice now and apart from a fair chunk of him slagging off the format we use now there's about 10% of an idea and a huge cliffhanger.
How can you get from doing 5 or 2 rounds to being put in an appropriate final? Via you fastest time of the day?, single best qualifying position etc? There'd be a lot of relying on luck in such a setup.

Think about the present system you need to do well in only 50% of the qualifiers to be assigned your appropriate final, something both you and I should be grateful for after A1a!. If it was 75% you'd have dropped down to at least the B and so would I with the 2wd

Say it was based on your best heat, you may do 4 q runs and get beaten by someone who does 1 q run, would you feel aggrieved?, I think so.

Now to the finals,you get a result based on your best 2 out of 3, so that allows you at least one bad run........you may break the car,get punted off etc etc.

Now take for instance the micro nationals, only the guys in the A get 3 legs best 2 to count,the mere mortals get one final.......anything goes tits it's game over

1/8 scale club racing.....3-4 q rounds and 1 x 18-25 min final, same as above anything goes tuts.......game over

There's a lot to be said for the present format mate!
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  #32  
Old 19-09-2015
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I can see his point, we race anyway in the heats, we don't really qualify so why not just have six races and not bother with finals.

The only down side I see is that you could be in a heat with worst drivers that could really compromise your day, unless a new heat list was printed at the end of each round, so by the end of the day the best drivers should be all racing together.
Maybe be put into heats in championship positions for the first round? Newcomers in order they booked in?
Don't give points per race but actual finishing positions overall, so you don't get points in your race but in 2wd or 4wd etc based on the final end of round listing.

It's all a lot of ,messing around for race control though printing a new heat list each round.
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  #33  
Old 19-09-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend Racer View Post
I can see his point, we race anyway in the heats, we don't really qualify so why not just have six races and not bother with finals.

The only down side I see is that you could be in a heat with worst drivers that could really compromise your day, unless a new heat list was printed at the end of each round, so by the end of the day the best drivers should be all racing together.
Maybe be put into heats in championship positions for the first round? Newcomers in order they booked in?
Don't give points per race but actual finishing positions overall, so you don't get points in your race but in 2wd or 4wd etc based on the final end of round listing.

It's all a lot of ,messing around for race control though printing a new heat list each round.
I agree, qualifying is racing.......ever had someone let you through because your the quicker truck........I very much doubt it, more like they'll try to block you and any pass even though you may be ahead by several seconds according to the clock. Half the time lapees make it hard enough to pass,this isn't just the sc nats it's from the ground up where discipline isn't enforced!.

So we dip qually and race, then heats are rearranged on your previous performance, how do you propose a driver climbs the ladder to get in the higher heats? , how do you account for breakage/ malfunctions/ being nerfed off the track?. You can't have a 'best of' in a knockout style pyramid, the only people that's likely to benefit are the top few drivers, although they won't really benefit as they'll still end up heading the field.

I must admit the idea of having a larger spaced grid is a good idea and would reduce the first corner melee, on the other hand a rolling start would be unpoliceable, it's hard enough for a ref to police a standing start never mind 10 moving cars.

I believe the present format gives everyone as good a chance to do as well as they possibly can, but, as has been mentioned previously do you want an easy going rule set or a strict, no contact format...........remember it works both ways
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  #34  
Old 19-09-2015
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Originally Posted by Slider SCT View Post
So we dip qually and race, then heats are rearranged on your previous performance, how do you propose a driver climbs the ladder to get in the higher heats? , how do you account for breakage/ malfunctions/ being nerfed off the track?. You can't have a 'best of' in a knockout style pyramid, the only people that's likely to benefit are the top few drivers, although they won't really benefit as they'll still end up heading the field.
Climbing the "ladder" is easy, if you finish in top 10 in race 1, as all the top 10 are together you should be in with the better drivers after one race, unless you breakdown or get broke by someone else in which case you try again in race two, now worse that it already is where you can be stuck in a heat of drivers not of your ability and you're stuck there for 1/2 the day
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  #35  
Old 19-09-2015
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So say for instance your in the top heat and you have an issue on lap 1 and that knocks you to last place overall where do you start in the next round?, would finishing 1st in heat 4 put you in 10th in heat 3 for example?

Take for example Justin's and my weekend at A1 we both had 2 last places overall due to breakages. I'm not sure on Justin's exact placings but the 2 remaining successfully runs put him into the A and the same for me with a 3rd and 4th overall.

I've done the qualifying from the lower heats last year and most of time it was from the back of those heats, if your the better driver it's down to you to get to the front of that heat so you start 1st next time and get clear track to exploit and you get 4 chances to do it and only requires a 50% success rate
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  #36  
Old 19-09-2015
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Originally Posted by Slider SCT View Post
So say for instance your in the top heat and you have an issue on lap 1 and that knocks you to last place overall where do you start in the next round?, would finishing 1st in heat 4 put you in 10th in heat 3 for example?
It would all depend where you finish overall!
Look at it like this, a round of 2wd would be like one race, you couldn't however have 40 trucks on the track at the same time for obvious reasons, so it would be all based on where you finish overall, which would be based on how quick you went around. You may be in heat 2 but have the second quickest time, that would but you second on the grid in the top heat the following round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slider SCT View Post
Take for example Justin's and my weekend at A1 we both had 2 last places overall due to breakages. I'm not sure on Justin's exact placings but the 2 remaining successfully runs put him into the A and the same for me with a 3rd and 4th overall.
You're looking at it from a finals point of view, in this way we wouldn't have finals, just 6 or 7 races all getting their own points.

It's like having 6 championship rounds at each venue, each race is individual to the championship and doesn't effect the next race as such.
This also means that if you're at a venue with more than one track or layout you could change that during the day too as it's a different championship round.
It also means if you have to leave early, maybe due to work, family commitments or breakages, you can still get some rounds in that count rather than it not even be worth the trip (obviously if you break you've already made the trip)

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Originally Posted by Slider SCT View Post
I've done the qualifying from the lower heats last year and most of time it was from the back of those heats, if your the better driver it's down to you to get to the front of that heat so you start 1st next time and get clear track to exploit and you get 4 chances to do it and only requires a 50% success rate
If you finish last tough, maybe that's a championship round you would drop, we would all have those days.
But working up for your next round would be easier as like i say it's like one big race with 40 cars and you only have to get up to the top 10 to be in with the better drivers (I'm sure a proper 40 car race would be great fun if there was room on the tracks )
If you win a race with a time good enough for a top ten why should you have to race against lesser drivers next heat too?
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  #37  
Old 19-09-2015
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I'm planing to race sct national next season I been racing sct at club level we have 10 at most meeting our last meeting we couple more turn up so we had 2 heats off sct also there a few people talking about one for next season where they could get one as club point of view sct in taking off ! They also asking if anyone was saleing one I said to look on here or eBay
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  #38  
Old 19-09-2015
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Originally Posted by Legend Racer View Post
It would all depend where you finish overall!
Look at it like this, a round of 2wd would be like one race, you couldn't however have 40 trucks on the track at the same time for obvious reasons, so it would be all based on where you finish overall, which would be based on how quick you went around. You may be in heat 2 but have the second quickest time, that would but you second on the grid in the top heat the following round
So basically what we have now but heat placement is swapped around?
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  #39  
Old 19-09-2015
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Originally Posted by Legend Racer View Post
You're looking at it from a finals point of view, in this way we wouldn't have finals, just 6 or 7 races all getting their own points.
So how do you plan to score it ? Eg 40 trucks at least 40 points difference between 1st and last, one bit of bad luck and you could drop 40 points in the extreme, 2 bits of bad luck 80 points in the extreme.......... championship over in 10 minutes!
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  #40  
Old 19-09-2015
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Originally Posted by Slider SCT View Post
So how do you plan to score it ? Eg 40 trucks at least 40 points difference between 1st and last, one bit of bad luck and you could drop 40 points in the extreme, 2 bits of bad luck 80 points in the extreme.......... championship over in 10 minutes!
Doesn't matter how it's scored, its the same for everyone, we all have races where we break down or finish last for whatever reason, we'll all lose those points here or there, but like there is now there would be dropped scores, this means you can just drop a couple of races in one day not a wholes meeting, which should keep the championship going longer
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