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Old 05-08-2013
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Default Any Tamiya M05 racers on here?

Hi all,

I race an M05 on carpet in Mini format and wondered if any others on here do. I'm having some rear end traction issues
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Old 05-08-2013
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Hi,

I don't have an M05 any more but I really got to grips with mine and had great results locally at our indoor winter championships.

A resource for you - http://rc-mini.net/joomla/index.php?...=23&Itemid=148 - this is a race setup from Brad Portelli down in Australia, and it's fantastic, Brad really knows his Minis.

Also, Dave Allen from Bristol has a great blog to which he contributes articles on the M05 - he's a very experienced and skilled racer and has a very good ability to nail good setups on his cars.

Tyres and diffs play a massive part in traction issues on the Mini. Sweep 25s and 33s work very well - try pre-glued 25s on the rear and 33s on the front, or 25s all round if you're a very very good driver. With the diff, the more it slips, the less it will act like an axle off power. So a slipping diff will cause off-power oversteer and make your car very nervous on corner entry. The best diff to use is the 3Racing oil-filled gear diff (part no M06-06) with 5000wt diff oil (filled to just above the small shafts connected the small bevel gears in the diff). This diff is great and gives an amazing amount of drive, needs servicing probably every 3 months or so with regular use.

Other things to look at for your traction issues are:

1) Are your wheels or rear axles buckled or bent? Spin the rear wheels, if they wobble then either your wheel is buckled or the axle is bent. Change the wheel and try again, if it's still wobbling, your axle is probably bent.

2) Take the shock off and let the wishbone hang down. Does it fall under it's own weight or is it stiff to move? If it's stiff to move then your suspension won't work as intended. Take it apart and work out what's making it stiff to move.

3) What tyres are you using? Are they old?

4) The M05 suffers quite a lot from the front end 'pitching' when cornering hard, leading to either traction roll or snap oversteer. The #54236 front shock stay helps to get over this, as does a decent set of shocks like the Tamiya M-Chassis Option Aluminium shock set.

That should be enough to help.

Joe
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Old 05-08-2013
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Thanks Joe,
This is what I posted on RC Tech:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boons
Hi all
So first night using my M05 last night at my indoor carpet track. I went quite well but would now like to discuss my findings. My car is equipped as follows

TRF shocks with 3 hole pistons, built as per instruction, 600cst oil in the front, 500cst in the rear, blue springs on the front, yellow on the rear, adjustable upper arms on the rear with a 1mm spacer in between, a 2mm spacer in between the front steering arms, M grip tyres all around (club rules allow standard or m grip 60d tyres) silver can motor with 20t pinion (club rules). The ride height is about 5 or 6mm. I also have the front suspension hanger that allows the shocks to be stood up. I use the outer hole.

I have the 3 racing alloy steering set up with the arms in the front holes, shimmed to be level at ride height, and a high torque servo saver. I haven't done the super glue trick on the edge of the front tyres but here's what I found. The car was quite sensitive with lots of steering, it wasn't uncontrollable but wasn't as forgiving as the M03 I used a couple of times a few weeks ago. I could turn my car on full lock flat out and it didn't roll, but it does 'tripod' and lift its rear wheel, it has that trying to stop itself turn in whilst lifting the rear wheel if you know what I mean. Guys at the club suggested the glue trick but I wonder if the car needs dropping further or more?

Good fun though, even if my lap times were 1 sec down from the battered, friction shock equipped M03 I used the other week........

One last thing, some guys used the O rings behind the shock pivot balls??

Thanks all!
So I have just got back from racing. Since last week I have changed the shock oil to 500cst front, 450cst rear as last week I got my oils wrong! (I was copying the M05 set up on rc mini.net and didn't read it properly!) I have lowered the car to about 5mm at both ends, applied superglue to the front tyre side wall, increased the front toe out so there is about 1mm between the steering arms, and shimmed out the axle slop. The car still has loads of steering so I was taking it easy not to turn in to hard, no grip roll due to the superglue, but if I have to lift off in the corners the back steps out or will spin out. I managed to get through the evening with some reasonable lap times but it was hard work! What could I try to counter the lift off oversteer?

Cheers
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Old 06-08-2013
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Just to make it clear - the shocks I was referring to are the #54000 TRF M-Chassis Shocks (with the Short Spring Set #53333). These will naturally drop the ride height to around 5-6mm. Don't get too hung up on ride height, lower arms level is about right.

What diff are you running? This and the tyres (obviously) are a massive influence on the handling. I really can't reccommend the 3Racing diff highly enough. Hard to get hold of though. If you have a ball diff of any kind, get this really tight - try not to break the diff bolt though, eh.

Tyres-wise, yeah not much you can do there if you're stuck with those two choices. The glue trick is very good, keep applying it regularly (every few rounds) as the glue will peel off with use and effect the handling. If you're allowed to change inserts, make the front inserts harder than the front (this is like having higher tyre pressures, therefore less grip, which will help to balance the car - although it will give less steering on-power too). One other thing to consider with tyres is tyre additive. Not sure how it reacts with treaded tyres like the M-Grips, but softer tyres should mean more grip.

What shell are you using? Do you have to use a Mini shell or are you allowed others? If you are allowed other shells, I would reccomend either the HPI Civic shell which is well balanced, or if you want uber-grip, the Blitz Golf GTI shell. If you are allowed different shells, I would really look to get one of these as you need to find the grip that you're losing from the tyres.

The anti-roll bar (sway bar) set is worth getting as well. Part no #54239 - I found that when everything (tyres, diff, superglue, aero from shell) was perfect, it didn't make that much difference, but when you don't have all that (tyres in your example) then it helps a lot to get rid of the nasty little things the M05 does, like snap oversteer.

You mentioned slop on the axles - don't worry about slop, the Mini seems to thrive on it - I'm not making this up, it goes better with slop, most experienced Mini guys will tell you that. I didn't shim my axles at all.

The other thing is driving styles - I found the fastest way to drive my Mini was to not brake a lot, unless it was in a straight line just before a hairpin. Just come off the gas smoothly and roll into the corner - try to get on the gas early as the car is more controllable on the throttle than it is on the brakes.

Hope this helps.

Joe
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Old 06-08-2013
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Thanks Joe, really very kind of you to type all that.

I'm stuck with the kit diff at my club too And everyone runs a Mini shell. I've bought the sway bars and will try the stiff one on the rear? I've also just got the hope up alloy front and rear hubs, but I forgot to order the 1050 bearings too

My shocks are the trf 54000 M Chassis ones and I got the the short springs too. Thinking about it, the first week it ran better with the 600cst oil in the front with 500cst rear so I'll try that again along with the swaybar and increased front toe.

Thanks again

Ryan
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Old 07-08-2013
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Try fitting the front sway bar rather than the rear, having less rear roll will make your tyres work harder, and we already know the M-Grips are pretty rubbish on carpet. Fitting the rear sway bar will probably increase your oversteer issues rather than solving it.

Also try softening the rear suspension by moving the top of the shocks inboard (not sure if this is possible, been a while since I had my M05).

I had typed a nice explanation of the sway bar and pitchinging/rolling but then my internet connection dropped out!
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Old 08-08-2013
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Thanks mate, lots for me try out!

My dad has just bought an M03 nip that he wants me to build and try out for him. I thought oh go on then
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Old 07-12-2013
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I've been working hard with my M05 and it's a lot better. I now have an M03 and it's much easier to use out of the box than the 5. Fun little cars though.
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Old 08-12-2013
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Can you run additive on the tyres? This will help massively. A good neutral setup will be as you have it but with the flourescent red springs on the rear, and to balance things on the front take the kit tyres and rag them on Tarmac for 5 minutes to break them in, then put additive on them too. That works for us and we run on grippy carpet, M's all round are going to give you issues you don't need yet. You're right the M03 is easier out of the box. M05s sometimes need a break in period to get to their best and sometimes they are never right my current 05 being a case in point.
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Old 09-12-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolio View Post
Can you run additive on the tyres? This will help massively. A good neutral setup will be as you have it but with the flourescent red springs on the rear, and to balance things on the front take the kit tyres and rag them on Tarmac for 5 minutes to break them in, then put additive on them too. That works for us and we run on grippy carpet, M's all round are going to give you issues you don't need yet. You're right the M03 is easier out of the box. M05s sometimes need a break in period to get to their best and sometimes they are never right my current 05 being a case in point.
Hi Spoolio,

Thanks for the reply.

Ive been experimenting with my mine since my original posts and now have a fairly well sorted car.

So you find the kit tyres better on the front?

I'm now running blue springs front with 450cst, yellow rear with 350cst, rear roll bar, M grips all around, almost no front toe, I have the new -1 degree front upper arms, wide shock mounts front and rear with the shocks in the outer most holes, and I've shed loads of weight from the car, it's around 1285gms inc the heavy NiMH cells (we can't use Lipo's) I've just installed a Futaba s9551 servo which is fast, I've dialled in some minus exponential to help against the twitchyness on the sweepers too.

I'm still chasing those pesky M03's.........
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