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View Poll Results: abandon the electric board homologation list?
yes 97 43.89%
no 115 52.04%
abstain 9 4.07%
Voters: 221. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 06-11-2014
dazp83 dazp83 is offline
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Originally Posted by cutting42 View Post
Not sure I agree with your first comment Jim.

Forums exchange views and knowledge, that is what was happening. That's certainly how I use it. This thread was a poll and generated plenty of both

Written rules in a manual do not help with an understanding of how we got there and why they exist. I have been racing only for 2 years and was not involved back in the days some of you are referring to.

The knowledge gained here helps guide and form new views and opinions, done publicly it helps more people than just me.
Well said.

Surely what's more embarassing is the irrelevant views about things of yesteryear.
Things move on
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  #62  
Old 06-11-2014
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The problem you are facing Jim Spencer is the fact a lot of guys don't know about the BRCA what they do or why they do it.

many guys are on the Fringe of clubs and Regional racing, and just don't understand what why who and how!

Its all our responsibility as members of the BRCA to inform them.

and lets not mix up the real guys who want to play with the real enthusiasts and confirm to our sanctioning, To those that want to stir some trouble.
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  #63  
Old 06-11-2014
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I think col should lock thread as it is going nowhere
the brca is the same as fia Moto gp they give you a set of rules to run to
people should think alot of people on brca committee have been there done it read book
bought t shirt scene video

rules are there to keep some sort of standard
and not open free for all
I have seen many changes over 25 years of racing and at least the new brca list are more consistent

keep doing a good job Jim and brca committee
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  #64  
Old 06-11-2014
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Wish I could have a say in my pay. Shouldnt people be impartial? It's like MPs voting for their own pay rises

Last edited by dazp83; 06-11-2014 at 05:10 PM. Reason: Edit
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  #65  
Old 06-11-2014
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Originally Posted by dazp83 View Post
Wish I could have a say in my pay. Shouldnt people be impartial? It's like MPs voting for their own pay rises
Don't understand this comment.

Anyway, some great background reading on the electric board is on:http://www.brca.org/content/electric-board/1396
On the same website are the 1/10 offroad section rules.
Wouldn't it make more sense to ask specific questions about these rules rather than speculating or asking vague questions?
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  #66  
Old 06-11-2014
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Originally Posted by dazp83 View Post
Well said.

Surely what's more embarassing is the irrelevant views about things of yesteryear.
Things move on
Because what happened yesteryear got is where we are today, which is a pretty damn good place. It could be a whole lot worse.

Without the work that was done in yesteryear by the people (who we, the BRCA members voted in) behind the scenes of the EB, we'd be in a much worse place.

Classes wouldn't necessarily use the the same batteries across class. You'd be buying new batteries every week, they could still be worse than what team guys get. I'm not just talking about Regional or National level, I'm talking worldwide. The work done by the very same people has laid the foundations for EFRA, IFMAR, ROAR and pretty much every other governing body, so that all racers worldwide use the same framework. This may not seem relevant at your local club, but for any drivers that wish to progress to larger races it's great.

Believe it or not, the rules weren't created by one guy overnight just for fun. They were discussed, created, modified and implemented to solve problems that the BRCA members were facing, and they were done in such a way that brought 99% of countries onto the same line. The people who don't realise this seem quite willing to undo all that hard work for the sake of some cheap lipo's, without any thought to the potential consequences (which at a guess would be minimum the same problems we previously had).
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  #67  
Old 06-11-2014
dazp83 dazp83 is offline
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I mean people who sell batteries who champion the list. I cant believe any manufacturer of car or lipo would design something for some regionals.
The real problem here is hobbyking not submitting, I've contacted them so maybe I'll hear something. Maybe if some more people on here did the same we could get somewhere? Seeing as this list seems to be so precious.
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  #68  
Old 06-11-2014
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Originally Posted by dazp83 View Post
I mean people who sell batteries who champion the list. I cant believe any manufacturer of car or lipo would design something for some regionals.
The real problem here is hobbyking not submitting, I've contacted them so maybe I'll hear something. Maybe if some more people on here did the same we could get somewhere? Seeing as this list seems to be so precious.
The list was originally championed by racers, to save them money The guys selling batteries were more than happy selling the battery of the month each month. I'd imagine that they were pretty frustrated at the creation of the list and rules. They were then only allowed to sell new batteries once a year and there was a maximum price so they couldn't increase it beyond reasonable (and I believe it stayed pretty stable for years!). Do you think battery sellers would rather have the pre or post list scenario?

No, a manufacturer probably wouldn't for regionals, correct. But a guy in his garage might, and find an odd shaped lipo that will fit. Great for him, unlucky for anyone trying to race against him on a level playing field.

The regionals are supposed to be a stepping stone to nationals. How would you feel after doing a year of regionals, going to your first national and finding your cells aren't legal and you can't race? Club racing is supposed to be the step before regionals, which is why I'd always recommend to a club racer to buy a lipo from the list.

I feel we actually all agree there should be rules and a list for nationals and above? The debate is about regionals? Personally I don't feel informed enough to make a decision on what regional rules should be. As MattW said, there was a proposal to remove the list for regionals, and for whatever reason that proposal was withdrawn. I'm guessing it was withdrawn for a very sensible reason that was explained at the meeting. I'd expect that when the section minutes are available it'll also be noted in there for is all to know, simples!
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  #69  
Old 06-11-2014
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Deleted cos Toms answer was much better

Last edited by peetbee; 06-11-2014 at 06:37 PM.
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  #70  
Old 06-11-2014
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Right, I've resisted posting until now! My views are as follows:

1) Jim Spencer, Slowone, DCM- you have the patience of a saint!
2) Tom Cockerill - you comments are very rational and give a good balanced account of why the list actually exists.
3) I probably won't be racing in the regionals as I tend to do other things during the summer and I only have Hobbyking LIPOs
4) The poll results at best show that there is divided opinion as to whether we need a list for 1/10 off road regionals or not.
5) I would like to see Hobbyking LIPOs on the list -
6) Hobbyking - get your finger out Hobbyking as you sell LIPOs that are top quality and an excellent price. You are obviously committed to the UK market, otherwise you won't have opened a UK warehouse, just another £40 investment would take that even further.
7) I like the BRCA but after reading the comments on facebook, there are a small handful of members who are complete tossors.
8) I think these threads have been useful as I am quite heavily involved with my clb and organising events, yet I have learned a hell of a lot about the BRCA and how it works.
9) Enough has been said and we are all going round in circles.

Peace out good people

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  #71  
Old 06-11-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazp83 View Post
Wish I could have a say in my pay. Shouldnt people be impartial? It's like MPs voting for their own pay rises
explain the difference between a person voting at the AGM to keep the battery list because he happens to have a vested interest in selling them and someone voting to lose the list because he has access to cheap batteries not on the list.

i understand that making racing cheaper for themselves is a priority for some, others will spend huge sums on the latest parts.
all motor sport incurs costs, the further into the sport the more the cost and more rules, we currently have a set of rules which allow clubs to decide what they will allow racers to run at clubs, we then step up these rules into regional events, they increase at national level and again at euro and world levels.
the decision here is at what point is a particular rule applied, you wish to apply the battery list at national level rather than the current regional level.
you may have strong support from other racers, unfortunately this year you will have to either buy listed batteries or not do regionals, next year you could propose a change and put it to the AGM, it may pass it may not.
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  #72  
Old 06-11-2014
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Well if hobbyking lipos escs and motors were allowed by the brca then sales of other products would drop. I'm obviously all for shops and get all my spares etc from herts or anywhere that has it online.
If someone's voting to create a monopoly on the market then that's unfair
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  #73  
Old 06-11-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris56 View Post
Right, I've resisted posting until now! My views are as follows:

1) Jim Spencer, Slowone, DCM- you have the patience of a saint!
2) Tom Cockerill - you comments are very rational and give a good balanced account of why the list actually exists.
3) I probably won't be racing in the regionals as I tend to do other things during the summer and I only have Hobbyking LIPOs
4) The poll results at best show that there is divided opinion as to whether we need a list for 1/10 off road regionals or not.
5) I would like to see Hobbyking LIPOs on the list -
6) Hobbyking - get your finger out Hobbyking as you sell LIPOs that are top quality and an excellent price. You are obviously committed to the UK market, otherwise you won't have opened a UK warehouse, just another £40 investment would take that even further.
7) I like the BRCA but after reading the comments on facebook, there are a small handful of members who are complete tossors.
8) I think these threads have been useful as I am quite heavily involved with my clb and organising events, yet I have learned a hell of a lot about the BRCA and how it works.
9) Enough has been said and we are all going round in circles.

Peace out good people

respect

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  #74  
Old 06-11-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazp83 View Post
Well if hobbyking lipos escs and motors were allowed by the brca then sales of other products would drop. I'm obviously all for shops and get all my spares etc from herts or anywhere that has it online.
If someone's voting to create a monopoly on the market then that's unfair
Let's get some things straight. None of the rules are there for the benefit of a few.

Nobody on the committee is making money off them.

Yes, distributors submit batteries as their market is RACING so it would be pointless not having their batteries/motors on the list, it has nothing to do with monopolies, you could say it is good business sense/marketing.

HobbyKing sales probably wouldn't spike if they went on the list and as the people who run their distribution centre are probably to busy to appease a small sector of the market.

NON Racing fun hobbyist far outnumber racers.

For me, the list isn't an issue, complying with the rules when doing nationals is something you have to adhere to, and to be fair, with the cost of travelling to nationals, hotel/camping, food, tyres etc makes battery cost irrelevant.

Regional, there are currently rule that do not have to be used at regional events, to me, the list is something that is an obstacle to those wanting to have a go/non-serious racer or if there is no scrutineering, an opportunity for a blind eye.
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  #75  
Old 06-11-2014
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Originally Posted by TheReferee View Post
i understand that making racing cheaper for themselves is a priority for some
Its not about making it cheaper for themselves personally, its about making it cheaper for everyone. Money should not be a barrier to entry to race, otherwise you get the crappiest racers winning because they have the best equipment. Of course money is a barrier to entry, and therefor the BRCA should be doing all it can to mitigate that, this is how I see things anyway. How can it be a good thing that people are only winning because they have more money, in the interest of competition i cannot see how this can be a good thing. I am not talking about the nationals. The guys at the top of there are amazingly talented, and they would win regardless of what they drove, because they have talent. Really this only applies to the mid range of club racing. I personally have nothing more to add to the discussion now
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  #76  
Old 06-11-2014
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Originally Posted by cutting42 View Post
I guess my main issue is there seems little real reason behind having the list. Many other sections don't have it. It does not control costs it just gives a little traceability and it adds a whole lot of admin and confusion.
Wrong knowledge - most Sections do run to the lists. Get you rfacts straight...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazp83 View Post
So the list exists for a theoretical change in the future? Who's making batteries for brca rules as well? Are we centre of lipo market?
We are the centre of the RC LiPo market. Together with ROAR we have led the world and given the manufacturers a specification to work within. EFRA and IFMAR are just two organisations that have followed us. As a result you can buy a battery from HK that will fit your car, and one from the list that means you can compete anywhere in the world and be within the rules.

Every manufacturer is making cells for BRCA rules, as they are the rules adopted across the world so if a manufacturer wants to sell to RC, they have to make cells to our rules.

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Originally Posted by dazp83 View Post
Yeah well said and its been said before other classes do just fine without a battery list or motors or esc.
Oval and e-buggy - two Sections out of the electric sections. Oval use the motor list and TC use the 12th Section speedo list for blinky. The only Section using none of the lists is e-buggy and Micro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazp83 View Post
So is that what's happening in 1/8 ebuggy with no rules? Or in the Netherlands?
E-buggy haven't asked for the list of their cells, and since they can't even agree on whether it is 3S, 4S or any other 'S', they aren't ready to have a list. Their Section is new and finding its feet, so it's no surprise they don't have or want a list just yet. once that settles down it is something they can consider, but like all new classes, the enthusiasts setting it up are finding what will make it successful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutting42 View Post
Not sure I agree with your first comment Jim.

Forums exchange views and knowledge, that is what was happening. That's certainly how I use it. This thread was a poll and generated plenty of both

The knowledge gained here helps guide and form new views and opinions, done publicly it helps more people than just me.
That's the problem Jim is talking about - this is just exchanging views. Much of the rest is not knowledge, it is just supposition and uninformed comment. That's what Jim, Terry and I keep saying - check your facts and stop posting what is frankly, bollocks.

Why people think that they have to say something that is wrong, and not ask a question if they are not sure, I have no idea. The three most powerful words you can use in any situation are "I don't know." If you then go and find out and can then respond with facts and reasoned analysis, you will go far.

Most of the time in my business people who cannot say those three words talk crap assuming that the people they are talking to are ignorant, or bullshit their way through and think the other person can't see that. That is a recipe for career and social disaster, all because they can't admit they don't know.

Please be aware that much of what people post here to justify their view is wrong. Everyone is entitled to a view, but these days it seems to be the norm that people are not strong enough to argue their view, they have to quote something as fact to justify it. Since so many of those 'facts' are transparently wrong, the situation just gets worse, not better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazp83 View Post
Well said.

Surely what's more embarassing is the irrelevant views about things of yesteryear.
Things move on
YEster-year is irrelevant? So what you're saying is that everything you learn each day you disregard tomorrow because it is now irrelevant? If you fell off your bike yesterday by going too fast, you do the same thing the next time? I think not.

You're just like the politicians - completely ignorant of the past and willing to repeat previous mistakes over and over again. Times may change, but situations don't. It is the past, and one's experience of the situations we find ourselves in, that allows us to manage to keep living in the present.

There's a big difference between modernisation and keeping up with the times. BRCA EB lists are very good at keeping up with the times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Skull View Post
The problem you are facing Jim Spencer is the fact a lot of guys don't know about the BRCA what they do or why they do it.

many guys are on the Fringe of clubs and Regional racing, and just don't understand what why who and how!

Its all our responsibility as members of the BRCA to inform them.

and lets not mix up the real guys who want to play with the real enthusiasts and confirm to our sanctioning, To those that want to stir some trouble.
Spot on Neil! We all do our best to help people understand, but it is not easy to get that message across when people do not want to listen. The worst part is doing a job for the BRCA and effectively being insulted and vilified by others who not only do not know us, but actively avoid finding out and offering any help to keep up with the times and keep the sport going.

Perhaps the most dispiriting thing is that if we were all in the pub, most of the views and comments expressed here would not be said to our faces. It won't stop me, but it is hard to take.
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  #77  
Old 06-11-2014
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Originally Posted by dwp102 View Post
.............otherwise you get the crappiest racers winning because they have the best equipment.

Disregarding the rest of the post, the above comment is hilarious.

90% thumbs, 9% tyres, 1% "equipment"

Give any of the national top 20 guys a RTR on decent tyres and they will lap your average regional driver.
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  #78  
Old 06-11-2014
dazp83 dazp83 is offline
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I'm not saying anyone on the committee has anything to do with batteries etc just other people do.
And as far as I was aware the only restriction for 1/8 buggy was 4s, seeing as at Slough there was only one final they can't be too choosey which is fine by me.
And anyway as I said earlier maybe the more people who contact hobbyking the better. Then everyone would be happy if they were homologated
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  #79  
Old 06-11-2014
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Originally Posted by dazp83 View Post
I'm not saying anyone on the committee has anything to do with batteries etc just other people do.
Of course some people do, and if having an homologation list allows them the structure to get products made, assessed and homologated to make them more salable to the racing fraternity, then so be it, that is business in the end, I don't see where the issue is. They aren't making the rules, they are not enforcing them, they are merely using the lists as a tool to make products and sell them, simples, nothing devious in that.
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  #80  
Old 06-11-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazp83 View Post
Well if hobbyking lipos escs and motors were allowed by the brca then sales of other products would drop. I'm obviously all for shops and get all my spares etc from herts or anywhere that has it online.
If someone's voting to create a monopoly on the market then that's unfair


question for you, do you actually know why thier not allowed by the brca/on the list?
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