Terrible attitude in your local model shop?

[wildoliver]

Just a quick question, what is your local model shop like?

I only ask because after a really long break from modelling, there were always good and bad of course, but pre internet there were lots of little aladdins cave type model shops, usually with an old man running it with boxes and boxes of what can only be described as useless C**p under the counter, as well as a selection of models etc.

Now all that seems to exist (round here at least) is clean fresh looking shops, filled mostly with toys, air rifles (I do shoot too but I don't want to go to a model shop to buy shooting equipment) plastic junk and a few models. Oh and rude staff.

Allow me to elaborate.

Trying to get back in to things cheaply I'm building a car up out of bits basically, intention of running it a few times, see if I want to get back in to the hobby or if it is a passing phase, if I want to get back in to it I'll buy a proper model probably a losi and go from there. So I have a collection of mardave/schumacher/losi parts and bolt them up and I have a car, only thing I'm lacking is a pair of fairly long turnbuckles for the steering, as the original ones from the front suspension are no longer long enough due to a chassis change.

1st stop Bridlington. Usual reception is only describable as apathy, but he's ok, no turnbuckles in stock for any car, so I buy some piano wire to make a pair of temp ones up.

Yesterday 2nd stop. "A small model shop in scarborough". Walk in greeted by a smile! Hi have you got any steering turnbuckles at all? What car is it for? It doesn't really matter said I, it's for a hybrid so anything really........here comes the beauty. "Oh that means I have to look through all the boxes though to find you some" at this point she became openly hostile and couldn't be bothered to do the most basic of jobs. I'm not asking a lot for goodness sake, I'm trying to buy something here, all I want is a bit of professionalism. Eventually her attitude becomes offensive and I realise she doesn't have the faintest idea what she's looking for so say don't worry I'll go to the other model shop.

Stop 3. Walk in better this time, much bigger shop although most of it is filled with toys and games, find almost what would do the job on display! They have rod in steel or brass and m3 slip on ends that I could solder/braize or weld on. Thinking if worse case happens I could buy some of that I'll go and ask if they have turnbuckles go to counter, young girl and older man, man serving so ask girl, she I must say was brilliant, friendly and helpful, says she doesn't know and to ask the chap, he becomes free and proceeds to deride me, comes out with comments like well I can't find them unless you know what car they are for. I tell him there is no car it is made of bits, he basically shrugs his shoulders and refuses to help????? I'm trying to buy something here ffs!

So what do I do now? The answer I go on to modelsports website or even better ebay, I look up turnbuckles on ebay and guess what there is dozens, from about 99p. I can see from the pictures ones about the right size (it isn't even delicate engineering this I can play with about half an inch adjustment.

So end result local model shop loses out this time on a small sale to the internet. When I come to buy another car they will lose out on that too, if any friends or family want anything similar they will be advised to keep away from these two shops, and eventually they will probably go bump citing the internet as the reason they can't survive.

Simple fact of life, people will pay inflated prices to buy from a person, provided that person is helpful, knowledgeable and friendly. They won't pay through the nose to be insulted, sneered at and generally receive rude unnaceptable treatment. My business wouldn't survive if I was rude, it infuriates me that people think they can get away with it. I hope the owners of said shops read this post actually. And for the record I wouldn't excuse it but could understand if I was a 15 year old spotty chav in a tracksuit, but I'm late twenties and was smartly dressed and polite.

[purpletimbo]

I would hazard a guess that the shop with the woman who was so helpful, maybe has a sister one in York as well?
If so I have dealt with her myself. Do you sell nitro fuel? It is for a .12 Kyosho engine. Bearing in mind, my last car was a Tamiya Cheetah, when they were current first time round, and I had just been donated an Alpha 3 new built but with no instructions.
The last nitro engine I dealt with, came with a propellor and spring start in 1977.
Answer = It's behind those boxes in the back, and I have no idea which you need.
Marvellous.
The only bright side to this is I do make the trek to modelsport in Otley sometimes, and can't really fault them. Handed them a clutch bell for my Zircon, new original they do stock, at nearly £40, off in the back he disappears, comes back with a matching Savage, £13, does the job perfectly, now that will make me go back, and I do order over the internet from them. A little customer service goes a long way.
Incidentally, where are you based, as I bet I have any length of turnbuckle you need in my shed

[traffman]

This is an extremely interesting thread and currently one very close to my heart at the moment seeing as after 16 years im getting back into electric racing.
My local shop in Falkirk ive known for years is helpful up to a point , very polite but not really into holding every item i require.
I popped into Maplins in the retail park and they didnt have any decent solder with flux or suitable servo type sticky tape.
Now the interesting one a certain model shop in Edinburgh (not Marionville) were most unhelpful when i returned an item that wasnt suitable .
In fact i was moved soo much i wrote a letter stating my disapproval and 4 weeks later ive still had no reply .
I log onto the internet and find everything i require at my fingertips, people say you should support your local hobby shops but if they dont supply what you require no wonder online ordering is the way to go.
Please feel free to defend any of the above shops as this is merely a personal opinion . The Falkirk model shop was the best for customer service though .

[DCM]

Well, there is no harm in some decent customer service, but if you also go in fore armed with a little more knowledge also, like length etc, then that will go a long way. Just like if you went into a car auto-factors and asked for a spark plug, dunno which one I want, just want one for an engine, they will tell you to go away. So you got to be prepared to do a little work too, there are so many different ones out there these days, the guy could be rummaging through for hours.

But Still, there is nothing wrong with good customer service.

re: buying fuel, what would be better, the young woman either being honest and telling you that she don't actually know which one is best, or her selling you something that could possibly be wrong..... or there is a third option, she could of looked in her books or you looked on the web to see the recomendations.

[wildoliver]

Some good comments, re the comment about I should have known what dimensions I needed, I went in with a temporary turnbuckle made up out of a piece of piano wire, and a couple of examples of suitable ends etc. Even said to her if you have any m3 threaded rod that will fit my old ends. As the customer I bent over backwards but it still wasn't enough.

The model shop in question there does have a sister shop. But to be honest she was no worse than the other larger model shop owner.

I have always found modelsport brilliant, I won't say they are the cheapest, but again you don't mind paying a little more if they can sort you a problem out and do it nicely, bear in mind with running around to different shops fuel and parking these turnbuckles probably owe me £15 before even getting my hands on them!

Timbo the dimensions I need are: 2" 3/4 long point to point (taking plastic ends in to account) pretty much any diameter they are only steering swivels on an electric classic buggy, m3 would be perfect, the really thin stuff (m1.5??) from servo linkages is probably too thin likewise some nitro trucks have really thick ones which are a bit overkill.

But if you do have anything then I can pop over I'm only at Driffield, and would happily bung you a few quid.

Oliver

[ashleyb4]

My local model shop is ace. And one of the men who works in there looks like andy pipkic. But thre service is defently good.

A

[purpletimbo]

As to the fuel, I did take the engine in question in, and am since armed with vast knowledge from many great forums such as this, but seeing as that was the only member of staff, and the owner, and they sell the model of engine in question fitted to built models, surely someone going in there to pay £100s for the model would expect at least they might know what fuel it took.
After all we all started somewhere.
And if we can sort a suitable day out my stuff is near Selby, so not a long ride out, I am sure in the various bundles I have bought from retiring racers there will be something, I have 1/64 right through to 1/5 and all inbetween
I reckon tmaxx ones would be about right 115mm or so.

[reg]

Most Model shops are only ever realy good if they have a club that they run,and dont get mixed up with model and hobby shops,most small shops wont stock what you need as they cant afford or even know what the racer will need,
I know the owner of my shop and my mate does some repairs for him,if were not in a hurry we will get him to order stuff,but if we are in a hurry we will use the net,
mark

[rocketrob]

Not trying to hammer you - but I think the point that has been missing in all of this is that you were going into businesses that rely on actual regular customers that buy things on a regular basis to survive.

1-You didn't buy your car from them.
2-You hadn't bought any of your other cobbled together bits and pieces from them.
3-You were looking to spend an infantesimal amount of money.
4-They were likely never to see you again, as they'd never seen you before.
5-You were looking for something that you had very little idea exactly what it was or how long they were.
6-You were wanting them to spend their time locating an odd item in which you had no idea what a proper stock number for it would be.

And thus, you were wanting to send them on a wild goose chase to look for an item of very little value in which you were only willing to spend a small amount of funds to acquire that they in all likelyhood might not have had in the first place.
And you wanted them to jump through hoops just because you were snazzily dressed?

Sorry, but the business world - literally any business - doesn't operate and/or can't survive pandering to customers under those circumstances.

In the future it would be my advice to: purchase a proper kit from a shop and they'll in most likelyhood have your current and future interests in mind relative to helping you acquire pieces and parts (instead of having a hybrid in which they have no gain from its past or future), know EXACTLY what you're looking for including length and/or stock number of the part (and not some vague desription of some miscellaneous part on some mythical hybrid piece), realize that their time is worth money and is in most cases not worth the time if they spend it attempting to locate an obscure inexpensive bit or piece (because it's not the small bits that keep them in business, but the more expensive ones that have return business tied to them).

[josh_smaxx]

Rocketrob, i disagree. The points about needing the regular customers spending big bucks to survive is true and all well and good but just because he is a new customer looking for a small part thats not exactly common doesnt mean the staff have to treat him like that, yes he may not be important to there business but it still gives them no right to treat him like that.

[Michael.]

and like he said, he not only won't be recommending the shop to his friends/relatives, he will be advising them 'to keep away' - which is fair in my opinion. That will surely lose the shop a few potential 'larger spenders'

Plus, I believe he was contemplating buying a kit after building his car anyway. I doubt he will purchase that from the shop in question

[wildoliver]

Rob I'm sorry mate but your attitude is exactly that of the shop. And it is wrong. No matter how small the amount of money (and I'm sorry but I was happy to pay up to a tenner, which for a part that will cost them a couple of quid at most isn't bad mark up) they should want to sell you equipment, if they had a business brain they would have tried to help, got chatting about the model, and then they could even have tried to sell me last seasons model, or a budget race car to save faffing with this one, it is just common decency and more importantly salesmanship. As for I hadn't bought the model from there thats rubbish, do you seriously think modelsport ask every customer if they ordered their model from them and if not refuse to serve them? Of course not, money is money. And if your a small business which is quiet 7 hours out of 8 then I would think most people would rather talk to a customer, try to help them, and try to make some money instead of standing there bored.

And I did have the measurement I actually had a temporary made up one with me even.

Anyway not arguing about it, I shan't be back which is a shame.

[Spoolio]

Originally Posted by rocketrob

Not trying to hammer you - but I think the point that has been missing in all of this is that you were going into businesses that rely on actual regular customers that buy things on a regular basis to survive.

1-You didn't buy your car from them.
2-You hadn't bought any of your other cobbled together bits and pieces from them.
3-You were looking to spend an infantesimal amount of money.
4-They were likely never to see you again, as they'd never seen you before.
5-You were looking for something that you had very little idea exactly what it was or how long they were.
6-You were wanting them to spend their time locating an odd item in which you had no idea what a proper stock number for it would be.

And thus, you were wanting to send them on a wild goose chase to look for an item of very little value in which you were only willing to spend a small amount of funds to acquire that they in all likelyhood might not have had in the first place.
And you wanted them to jump through hoops just because you were snazzily dressed?

Sorry, but the business world - literally any business - doesn't operate and/or can't survive pandering to customers under those circumstances.

In the future it would be my advice to: purchase a proper kit from a shop and they'll in most likelyhood have your current and future interests in mind relative to helping you acquire pieces and parts (instead of having a hybrid in which they have no gain from its past or future), know EXACTLY what you're looking for including length and/or stock number of the part (and not some vague desription of some miscellaneous part on some mythical hybrid piece), realize that their time is worth money and is in most cases not worth the time if they spend it attempting to locate an obscure inexpensive bit or piece (because it's not the small bits that keep them in business, but the more expensive ones that have return business tied to them).

Bloody hell mate, do you live in Royston Vasey by any chance? If so and I'm passing and want to buy some Polo's from the newsagents (who will have never seen me before, will never see me again and are selling me something of small value), are they likely to say "this is a local shop for local people, we'll have none of your kind here".

I think you are totally missing the point. Business' exist to make a profit out of customers yes BUT, if this chap was the only person at the counter - and didn't have a queue of people behind him waving £20's in the air wanting stuff "off the shelf" - what is so hard about having a rummage for a bit of non-standard stuff. In that situation ANY money they can take is better than none, its not a waste of time if they are just sat on their arses looking out of the window anyway is it?

[rocketrob]

Let me start by saying the intent of what I wrote was not an attempt to hurt anyone's feelings or start up such a big rowe.
I only said what I did sort of "playing devils' advocate and hopefully explain why oliver didn't get quite the reception he though he'd get.

Originally Posted by josh_smaxx

Rocketrob, i disagree. The points about needing the regular customers spending big bucks to survive is true and all well and good but just because he is a new customer looking for a small part thats not exactly common doesnt mean the staff have to treat him like that, yes he may not be important to there business but it still gives them no right to treat him like that.

I hear what you're saying, but at the same time I've heard these sorts of rants on discussion boards before. And thus I have a feeling that his sentiments were overblown, possibly or not, but I was just weighing in own 2-cents worth.

Originally Posted by Michael.

and like he said, he not only won't be recommending the shop to his friends/relatives, he will be advising them 'to keep away' - which is fair in my opinion. That will surely lose the shop a few potential 'larger spenders'
Plus, I believe he was contemplating buying a kit after building his car anyway. I doubt he will purchase that from the shop in question

Well, honestly, since he'd already been involved in the hobby previously and was now supposedly "re-testing the waters to gauge his own potential continued interest - and thus should have had some semblance of understand whether he would or he woulnd't it's my feelings that he chose this route to get off on the cheap.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, yet at the same time I doubt there's any expectation that he'll be plunging back in anytime soon.

Originally Posted by Spoolio

Bloody hell mate, do you live in Royston Vasey by any chance? If so and I'm passing and want to buy some Polo's from the newsagents (who will have never seen me before, will never see me again and are selling me something of small value), are they likely to say "this is a local shop for local people, we'll have none of your kind here".
I think you are totally missing the point. Business' exist to make a profit out of customers yes BUT, if this chap was the only person at the counter - and didn't have a queue of people behind him waving £20's in the air wanting stuff "off the shelf" - what is so hard about having a rummage for a bit of non-standard stuff. In that situation ANY money they can take is better than none, its not a waste of time if they are just sat on their arses looking out of the window anyway is it?

As I alluded to before, it wrote this not intending on offending anyone, no I don't live in Royston Vasey, and I wasn't trying to pick a fight or have one picked with me.

My only point was and is that hobby shops, as a general rule, struggle to get by - and if they aren't selling items of consequence, with a greater margin of profit, they oftentimes end up closing their doors since the profit margin on little bits is just that (little scraps that don't pay the rent let alone pay the wages of someone to man the counter).

I guess it takes me back to the day long ago when I first forayed into this hobby and attempted to do something similar to Oliver and I remember the rather cool reception I received at the local hobby shop on my initial visit. Those cool feelings changed little by little over time as I kept returning, but never really changed until I watzed in and laid my money on the counter for a new kit months later. Suddenly I was the hobby shop guy's pal.
So I asked him one day what changed, and he said, "before you were nickel and dimeing me to death. Now you're a customer of mine. Before you were a customer of someone else because you didn't buy your car here, and all you were looking for was to get my time and expertise for little or nothing." Going on to explain that it's sort of like buying a real car at a dealership or a used car lot. If you go for service; driving up in your car you got somewhere else you get one level of service, whereas if you bought the car at that dealership you get the royal treatment.

That's all I'm saying. I'm not justifying rude behavior or anything, but jsut trying to say that there's two ways of looking at things.

[rocketrob]

Originally Posted by wildoliver

Rob I'm sorry mate but your attitude is exactly that of the shop. And it is wrong. No matter how small the amount of money (and I'm sorry but I was happy to pay up to a tenner, which for a part that will cost them a couple of quid at most isn't bad mark up) they should want to sell you equipment, if they had a business brain they would have tried to help, got chatting about the model, and then they could even have tried to sell me last seasons model, or a budget race car to save faffing with this one, it is just common decency and more importantly salesmanship. As for I hadn't bought the model from there thats rubbish, do you seriously think modelsport ask every customer if they ordered their model from them and if not refuse to serve them? Of course not, money is money. And if your a small business which is quiet 7 hours out of 8 then I would think most people would rather talk to a customer, try to help them, and try to make some money instead of standing there bored.
And I did have the measurement I actually had a temporary made up one with me even.
Anyway not arguing about it, I shan't be back which is a shame.

Oliver, it's not so much my own attitude as it is that of the business world - if you're not paying me, you're of little use so move on.
And I'm trying to say I understand it to a degree, yet at the same time trying to give you some rationale so you understand it as well.
The problem with your theory on "salesmanship" is sort of messed up as well. People that are actually buying really need no sales help, they've made up their mind and are buying so it's just a matter of what to buy - whereas people that are shopping are the biggest time-wasters for salesment there are because those people really aren't buying and no amount of salesmanship can make a sale. So they spend an inoridinate amount of time, in 90% of cases, for nothing.
Sorry, but that's just what sales statistics reveal.

And honestly, though modelsport may not remember every customer that walks in the door - they damn sure remember every one of them that have bought a kit recently. And, as I alluded to earlier, they know the ones that are going to nickel and dime them to death - wanting great service, advice, etc., yet spending little money. And money is what keeps the doors open.

I hear what you're saying, but it just does't make much sense - at least not in the greater scheme of things. And I'm not justifying rude treatment, if that's actually what happened - and considering that you suggested that you received similar treatment in three different stores it makes me think that either you're exaggerating what actually happened, or maybe you were rude or demanded special treatment. I'm not sure.

Not trying to start an argument either. All I was trying to do was offer up another way of seeing things.

[wildoliver]

Hmm I know what you mean, and don't worry didn't take any offence (it's an internet forum at the end of the day).

However I think your a bit forgiving of bad service, you can't turn away nickel and dime business for the very reason you have proven, small business often turns in to big business, I restore classic cars for a living, about 1% of my enquiries are "big business" I.E. Someone wanting to buy a car or a resto, I give a lot of free advice away, and quite often persuade customers not to spend money with me that wouldn't get them the result they want, don't get me wrong if someone insists on not taking my advice and blowing money with me I'm very happy to take it, but I would sooner help someone get a good deal, and recommend me to colleagues etc. Than try to have their pants down once and once only.

Likewise I sell lots of parts, some of them are in terms of profit a total waste of time, it costs me more in time and effort to take a phone call, wait for a cheque, bank it, and post out a 50p part. But I do because a month down the road that chap might want to spend a few thousand with me, yes chances are he won't, but he might, and I don't have a crystal ball to tell which will and which won't, so I treat everyone the same. That's the nature of sales.

I am trying to do this on the cheap, make no bones about that, but with the best will in the world if I find myself having fun off my so far about £60 outlay a lot of which will transfer to a new model anyway then I will be buying a nice shiny new car, that's 20-30 quid profit on the kit plus any extras that can be sold. Also no matter what these guys say there is more profit on small parts than large parts, mainly due to internet competition.

Anyway thats me done!

[purpletimbo]

I have never bought a kit from modelsport, but have bought quite a few spares, they remember who I am have my details stored, post next day, if I don't go in person, I generally deal over the telephone rather than internet, and when I needed a one way bearing and got the wrong one sent, i went back over, the salesman drove up to Mtroniks, sorted out the difference, and as they didnt have the right one, Mtroniks fixed me up free of charge with a used one to tide me by, till the other one came in stock. Now that is the sort of service that means when I am going t splash out on an E-Revo, £25 difference won't tempt me to a shop i ahve never dealt with before.
so small sales and a happy customer often lead to bigger things.One thing for sure, everyone I know who has used my LHS even for £100s gets the same treatment, if you don't want to sit in a shop full of models because you hev no interest, sell it and buy a shop that sells something else.
At least the Modelsport guys have a genuine interest in the hobby, and in fact, they often state they like dealing with people who build their own and regard that as part of the hobby, rather than off the shelf ready to run, then bring it back for every smallest job. They know that means money coming in, but still they love to see my odd ball models when I go over, reminds them of glory days in the past.

[bert digler]

Originally Posted by rocketrob

Oliver, it's not so much my own attitude as it is that of the business world - if you're not paying me, you're of little use so move on.
And I'm trying to say I understand it to a degree, yet at the same time trying to give you some rationale so you understand it as well.
The problem with your theory on "salesmanship" is sort of messed up as well. People that are actually buying really need no sales help, they've made up their mind and are buying so it's just a matter of what to buy - whereas people that are shopping are the biggest time-wasters for salesment there are because those people really aren't buying and no amount of salesmanship can make a sale. So they spend an inoridinate amount of time, in 90% of cases, for nothing.
Sorry, but that's just what sales statistics reveal.

And honestly, though modelsport may not remember every customer that walks in the door - they damn sure remember every one of them that have bought a kit recently. And, as I alluded to earlier, they know the ones that are going to nickel and dime them to death - wanting great service, advice, etc., yet spending little money. And money is what keeps the doors open.

I hear what you're saying, but it just does't make much sense - at least not in the greater scheme of things. And I'm not justifying rude treatment, if that's actually what happened - and considering that you suggested that you received similar treatment in three different stores it makes me think that either you're exaggerating what actually happened, or maybe you were rude or demanded special treatment. I'm not sure.

Not trying to start an argument either. All I was trying to do was offer up another way of seeing things.

you sound like one off them of the apprentiece lol

[glypo]

I am very sympathetic towards this. And I think you have every right to complain, regardless of what you are after, or whether you are a regular, shops should be courteous and as helpful as possible. If they aren't, they don't deserve any custom. As said above, if a customer comes in for something small and gets great service, chances are next time they want something big they will go back. If they get crap service, I personally would never return. The business world simply doesn't operate by shooting down small customers.

I've had one shop trying to sell me airplane fuel for a car once, and another recommending crap just to clear their stock. In another shop I was just ignored, and told to wait for 10 minutes whilst the guy chatted to his friend, just small talk as well. Fortunately that shop has gone bankrupt, not a nice thing to say when it's someones livelihood I know, but you can't run businesses like that. Another of the modelshops closed, but was later re-opened under different ownership and it better now.

All I can say is I'm damn glad MK Racing exists for car stuff. I would pay a premium if he demanded one, but funnily enough he's the cheapest around also. If only I could find a RC aircraft shop locally as well with same good service/advice....

[bert digler]

Originally Posted by glypo

I am very sympathetic towards this. And I think you have every right to complain, regardless of what you are after, or whether you are a regular, shops should be courteous and as helpful as possible. If they aren't, they don't deserve any custom. As said above, if a customer comes in for something small and gets great service, chances are next time they want something big they will go back. If they get crap service, I personally would never return. The business world simply doesn't operate by shooting down small customers.

I've had one shop trying to sell me airplane fuel for a car once, and another recommending crap just to clear their stock. In another shop I was just ignored, and told to wait for 10 minutes whilst the guy chatted to his friend, just small talk as well. Fortunately that shop has gone bankrupt, not a nice thing to say when it's someones livelihood I know, but you can't run businesses like that. Another of the modelshops closed, but was later re-opened under different ownership and it better now.

All I can say is I'm damn glad MK Racing exists for car stuff. I would pay a premium if he demanded one, but funnily enough he's the cheapest around also. If only I could find a RC aircraft shop locally as well with same good service/advice....

mk racing is the best service in the ukfast efficent and helpfull if you buy a bag of screws or a new kit same great service