Why no spec classes in the UK?

[Chris Elworthy]

Hi lads,

Was just wondering whether anybody can speculate why in this country at 10th off road meetings from club to national level we run exclusively modified classes?
Obviously my comparison is with the USA where at all levels of racing you can choose modified or one of the spec blinky classes such as 10.5 and 13.5 motors. As many of you will agree with the current speed of the equipment available is really far beyond the control, certainly of the newer drivers but even seasoned drivers struggle to tame the power but continue with the powerplant in the risk of not keeping up.
Other than a talented few youngsters most fail to really master full car control and be able to then focus on improving driving style and racing lines as they are just too aggressive when running 7.5/6.5 motors especially in 4wd cars which can be plain dangerous to marshals etc.
As you may already have worked out I'm suggesting that it would be better for all if at least one spec motor class was to become common accross the country designed as a entry level class for drivers to learn but also a highly competitive class for the clubman who doesn't have a huge budget/sponsorship assistantance.

Obviously the formation of new classes/rules filters down from national level where it's currently a single class. I'm sure a reason why the BRCA wouldn't like the idea of running a spec national class alongside modified is that it would dilute the quality of the modified class but I'm not too sure. There have been spec classes in 10th onroad for years giving an option for drivers to compete nationally against people of similar ability without factory support, I believe there are similar classes offered in 1/8th IC too.

In my opinion there is a sense that you are just making the numbers up for the 30 or so potential A finalists and you disappear into the midfield of qualifying. Of course the standard is still good at national level even to the lower finals but it doesn't have the same kudos as qualifying for an A final in your respective class.

I'm aware that things are highly unlikely to change at national level but I'm interested to hear people's views on the subject.



Chris

[danDanEFC]

I suggest its because SPEC classes are full of cheats!! They are supposed to be entry level or reduced cost however all I read is that one thing is faster than all the rest and therefore if you haven't got that your nowhere.

With Mod Off-road if you want to be quicker just buy a quicker motor, no messing about required.

[Origineelreclamebord]

I recognize the problem, but... why not reduce the amount of power you can put down with lower grip? If the grip is low, pace will actually be slower in the corners and not just the straights, not to mention if it's not possible to put the power of a hot motor down onto the surface, people will start tuning down the power of their motors. Spec motors and ESCs will only reduce speed on the straights, and people will strive to find any tricks to increase their acceleration and speed, making the class more expensive, not to mention you'd need to check for a lot of items that are not regulatory...

[cjm_2008]

This reminds me of the good old days (early 2000s) where the '27t' classes used to make the bulk of off-road entries in my local regionals.

I also did a few rounds of the Tamiya Eurocup with a Mini (all running 540 silver can motors) and it was hilariously close, fun racing.

I've always been a fan of spec racing classes, especially if they keep costs down, but they do require strict policing (scruitineering) to work, as Origineelreclamebord points out.

We are operating in an unprecedented era of equality now anyway! Back in the day there were 'special' batteries, speedos & motors, and they all cost an absolute fortune if you could get hold of them. But regardless of the gear, talent always rises to the top.

[Chris Elworthy]

Some valid points made,

As for reducing the grip levels I for one would like to go back to slippier tracks but in order to race regularly and on a consistent surface astro is really the only option. Not to mention the huge amount of money and effort put in by clubs bringing their tracks up to spec.



If running in blinky mode with the same turn motor differences in speed should be marginal.

Chris

[kartstuffer]

In Ireland the DMCC run a 10.5 blinky class and the intent is that if you run this class and win the championship you then move to modified.
We probably have a 50-50 split between mod and 10.5 clubman class but it is definately better than not having the 10.5 class.

[Chris Elworthy]

It seems like it's just the UK then. I just find that at nationals there isn't a huge amount to aim for other than securing a higher F grading as no matter how quick the majority of us on the day are were not gonna start mixing it with the established A Final superstars and we recognise this.

Some sort of clubmans championship for drivers who have competed in less than 3 years of nats for eg would be great for breeding new drivers in my opinion and would be great close racing imo.

I remember when rebuildable stock TC came to the UK people soon turned to it for the close, fun racing

[cjm_2008]

Originally Posted by Chris Elworthy

It seems like it's just the UK then. I just find that at nationals there isn't a huge amount to aim for other than securing a higher F grading as no matter how quick the majority of us on the day are were not gonna start mixing it with the established A Final superstars and we recognise this.

What's stopping you though?

In full size motorsport there is a cost ceiling, but I do feel that it's purely down to skill in RC racing. Practice your nuts off and who knows....

[cmgreen]

Personally I thinks its hard enough getting people racing as it is. If there were plenty of people racing - like the good old days of the radio race car series they had a stock and modified championship...

[Rick-J]

From my previous experience running 17.5 in touring cars it is not as beginner friendly as you may think. Yes it limits the speed but is no cheaper as the top drivers in that class are going for that extra percentage. Meaning to compete you need that new motor that is marginally faster or higher c batteries or a lighter car etc. Some people love this and see it as an extra challenge but personally I love the fact that buggy racing is uncomplicated just 2wd and 4wd. We all have access to the same electrics etc and you can choose what to install or buy. As long as its BRCA legal you dont have to worry. As an average club racer you can gain more than enough speed from relatively cheap electronics and batteries.

Saying that I would like to see 2wd split into rear motor and mid. Rear motor class would be so much fun. Thoughts?

[cutting42]

I am thankful there is only mod racing. Nothing to worry about, buy any of the main manufacturers cars, any electrics, any batteries and you too can win races! Start with a slower motor (10.5 for me and my son a few years back) and progress up the motors as you improve.

[claymoreman]

A spec OR a stock class could be run by clubs it would just mean clubs actually scrutineering cars to run this class. If then a stock class was run at club level then maybe it could be transformed into a national series. I dont agree with the fact that if you win the series you have to move up to a modified class.

a stock class could possibly bring more people into the sport

[knighthawk]

It would be great to see a spec class in Off Road.
The main problem with any motor class you have to follow the pack because if you don't, you just get left for dead on the straights !

[Chris Elworthy]

But don't people follow the pack anyway even in mod?

[knighthawk]

Originally Posted by Chris Elworthy

But don't people follow the pack anyway even in mod?

What I mean by this is, you could run a 10.5 to make your life easier in the infield of the track, but you just now people using a 5.5/6.5 will eat you down the straight, lol

[Al3xis007]

Spec classes were good, but that's before people started cheating.
I saw someone talking about 10.5 motors, Tom Cockerill ran a turbo'd and boosted 10.5 at stotfold and he was plenty fast enough, not that noticeably slower than a 7.5 with no timing

[Origineelreclamebord]

The current astroturf grips so much because tires hook into it and the rubber that may deposits in/on it - a material that doesn't allow that (as much) would fix the problem... At an indoor track here in the Netherlands they use porous plastic floor tiles for low-grip areas in the track, where funnily enough you get more traction as your tire wears down.

That, or change to a regulation tire that offers less bite and preferably even one that has long-lasting performance instead of a short spike in performance. If you can engineer tires to generate more grip, you can also reverse the process to reduce grip

[Steve.T]

I'd love to see a spec class and would support it but there's always some muppet who ruins it by cheating

[knighthawk]

Originally Posted by Steve.T

I'd love to see a spec class and would support it but there's always some muppet who ruins it by cheating

Simple solution

" Life Time Ban "

[DCM]

Spec class=cost.... Simple fact....

You munch through motors and cells to be competitive and then, when you are winning you're a cheat cause your winning.

In America they have so many classes at big events, everyone's a winner but there tracks are mostly low drag, a 13.5 on grass well, they ain't much fun.

This comes from someone who seriously competed in stock buggies in the nineties.