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#1
20-11-2011
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Setup Help
Hey fellas,
Running my X6 Sq on a really rutty/bumpy/breaking hard clay track which is a little abrasive. Currently running Panther Bobcats up front and Goosebumps on the back (although I am still in search of better tyres). While overall it's not too bad but its not not 'good', I dont think anyway. I attached my current setup. I am finding that it has a reasonably good straight line stability and usually has enough steering through the turns but does not inspire confidence and unless I am being very careful about it, it can be quite unpredictable/tail happy going into/coming out of corners, mid corner is usually great. It usually isnt gentle about it either, it just flicks around. This, at the moment is my main problem, I have tried a few different things with setup and Calibers and V1 Barcodes and still find the same problem. Sometimes I also find when really getting on the power on the straights at first it just wants to dance all over but once it gets going it feels really locked in, also did this with the 4° toe block, not a big issue, I can put up with it/minimize it by being a bit more gentle on the throttle but would be nice to be able to hammer in this section as I tend to loose a bit of ground here. I'm unsure if its a weight transfer issue or something else. I have the weight up front to help give a little more steering, before it would always push heaps on power (mid corner or abouts), it improved a bit after putting the weight in. I would appreciate any help. Cheers, Brendan. EDIT: What is the part number for the little white adjustable shim set for squat, hub, arm, etc spacing, I seem to have a knack for loosing these. Also, where can I get ball studs that have a hex in the end so I can easily move them? 
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#2
21-11-2011
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this is a set up i still run to this day....our tracks over here are the same as you run on dusty and grippy....
run x 2000s version 2 red great rear tyre .............. also try losi BK bars or the new AKA rebars they are very good!!!!!!! calibers are the worst tyre ive ever used!!!!!!!!!!! going by your ratio u run no boost...... so try running 69/ 37 for 17.5 if the temp of the motor comes of under 70 after 6 mins keep running it!!! we run no timing/boost over here i run 67/37 on a team powers motor and it fly s you can find picks of my cars on the rctech x factory thread just go back a couple of pages and you can see my last big win!!!...
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HOT BODIES R A B HOBBIES TEAM POWERS K.E.O.R.C.A
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#3
21-11-2011
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Ta mate, I'll give that a go, I'll just slowly make each difference one at a time as I do it.
I think one of the other blokes had the X2000's and said they were decent but lacked a little sidebite, could be a setup issue aswell as he has only ran the buggy a couple of times. I had the calibers running really sweet while practicing once, aslong as I stayed on the clean line but I went back for more practice about 2 days later and were just horrible, thats been my general experience with them too, one moment they are great then the next your worst nightmare. I think the blocks/pins are too close to each other aswell. I'm keen to give the Losi tyres a go and the Rebars. The Goosebumps might have been a little better if I could find something that is NOT the green compound. These pics give a decent idea as to what the track is like. At the moment we have just one jump but have a couple of others ready to put on (not permanent at the moment).     You are correct that I am running no boost but I am running 32° timing, with no timing the motor felt dead, no speed at all and any more timing doesnt seem to make much difference, it does run pretty cool though, about 55° after the 10 min final. I am going to get a couple of bigger pinions in my next order. I may eventually get the Duo3 17.5. Just about to take a gander on Rctech.
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#5
21-11-2011
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That was one of the last things I changed (to get my current setup).
I found that handling overall was a tad nicer with the hubs and arms forward but it didnt like going over the jumps, it would just bounce over and the front end would lift up more often. I'm not sure on weight distribution, I only have 1 scale. I have loosened the slipper, coming out of corners was slightly better but not still not that great. Rebound as in too big a piston, oil too thin? I am running the shocks pretty soft at the moment, I have tried a combo of harder setups with harder springs, smaller pistons and different oils but I found the softer setup to be the nicest, more contact with the ground, less bouncing, more predictable (aside from the current problem, which was there before aswell). I'll play around with droop soon, I do have a fair bit.
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#6
22-11-2011
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This surface seems very hard to control...
To get a little less steering in exit, I try the Losi front tires 7204 which are more agressive in enter and less in exit (compared to 7202 and Proline) I can't see on your pics but if the track is very dusty, I would try the Stud red on the back
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#7
22-11-2011
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Cool Pics got any on your X6???
Man does your club know what a broom can do!!!!!!!!!  try sweeping the track after every round!!!!!! not heat but round!!!! or get some water into it the night before race day!track looks like my home track last year like a dry lake bed!! my setup gives you heaps of side bite and forward grip all the guys over here at my club and a couple of others at other clubs that run the X6 run my set up and only need to change spring and oil to get what we are looking for..... remember the longer the rear link the more rear grip!!!! Also you have to remember running the out side hole on the rear arm is the same as running the inside hole on a losi or B4 running the trannie with no shims give very little forward bite and seeing your track- run as little anti-squt 2*degrees .the bumpier the track the less anti-squt !!!! i always run my sway bar everywhere too and still have tones of rear grip!!!!! try running a pin tyre as well and dont always go for the softest compound as Track Temp has a lot to do with the compound you run aswell!!!!! run the Kinwald front hub mod with short wheelbase and see how much steering you hav then!!!!! Also ive found my car has more steeering with the 25 degree hubs!!!in and out of corners ,ive tryed 30 and the car was shit pushed everywhere! also get your hands on the AJ Galaxy body !!!!! works great!!!! here is pics of my car... and a couple of it winning at the COLEMAN CUP!!!!! i used the same setup on the car and my TQ time would have Q me 3rd in the Mod final!!!! u can find more at www.keilorrc.org.au  Kick some ass!!! cheers Mic
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HOT BODIES R A B HOBBIES TEAM POWERS K.E.O.R.C.A
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#8
22-11-2011
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Quote:
Thanks for the tips on tyres but I don't think steering itself is my main issue at the moment, it's just the rear end can be unpredictable, I have plenty of steering and doesnt really feel like its too aggressive. Yeah, it is quite dusty. Got a couple of pics, I am pretty much the unofficial club photographer so unfortunately there isnt many of my own.    These are in someone else gallery so I cant imbed them... https://picasaweb.google.com/1105899...46124752192914 https://picasaweb.google.com/1105899...45779523300162 https://picasaweb.google.com/1105899...45489041549074 https://picasaweb.google.com/1105899...45320533546898 Yeah, the track only gets a sweeping over once in the morning, then hosed down then gets the hose again before the finals, track is near dry again by the end of the first 10 min race. There are discussions going on at the moment to do some work to it over the christmas break, a bit more clay/resurface/pack down a bit more, add permanent jumps and decide on a final layout, as it is right now, it isn't that great, as you can see it is very bumpy/rutty and breaks up very easily. I didnt know about the rear outside hole was the same as inside on B4 and Losi's I have tried the .03 shims under the tranny and didnt like it, will give it another go when I can. I've been playing around with the anti squat aswell, I agree running less does seem to help for me. I have a sway bar aswell, I was running the black B4 bar but I think it might still be a bit too thick, generally I prefered it but a couple of sections were much nicer without. My next set of tyres won't be a soft compound, doesnt last long and I did notice after the last race meet that my tyres were considerably warmer. I am thinking the X2000/X3000 and AKA Impacts might be worth a go. Although one other bloke has tried Bow ties and said they were just horrible. I forgot about that Kinwald mod, will get working on a couple of A-arms soon, that might make a big difference for me. Changing the front hubs was the next thing I was going to do on last race day after we finished but the rain started hammering down. I might grab one of them bodies, I need a new one. Your X6 looks pretty sweet, impressive results too, congrats. On our last race day most of the 2wd buggy fellas couldnt make it that day so we all piled into the 4wd mod buggy, I was just able to keep up with a couple of them (although to be fair, they werent running that hot a motor). Thanks for the help mate, I appreciate it.
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#9
22-11-2011
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X-Cars are usually King on those kinds of tracks -- they bounce around less thus handle the bumps better at speed.
To weigh the car, make three little stands which are the same height as the scale -- little wood blocks do nicely. Then, one wheel on the scale and the others on the blocks gives you a treasure trove of info. We suggest even weight side-to-side and 35% - 65% front-to-back. Look at the U.S. set-up sheets posted on our site for info on total weight and placement. http://www.xfactoryrc.com/rc/Tech/SetupSheets.php#2wd Car looks good.
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#10
22-11-2011
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Looking at your set up I'd try moving the front shocks out on the arm, going to the outer hole on the rear hub and possibly try the inner shock hole on the rear wishbone although that doesn't always work with those big expanding dirt tyres
E.
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#11
22-11-2011
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Last Sunday i raced and won at a similar surface track
This is my setup if this can help you http://www.rcdevil.gr/wp-content/upl...-CUP-ARENA.pdf For rear tires Losi Ifmar Studs or step pin in red compound are also a good choice Hope that will help 
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#12
22-11-2011
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I would really recommend arms and hubs forward on that type of surface. To help with the jumping, moving the wing forward too. I almost always mount my wing so the back edge of the flat area is tangent to the wing mount pads, if that makes sense. I cut it out around the shocktower/shocks. Here's a picture from an indoor race just a few weeks ago; it's not the clearest but hopefully gets the idea across: http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-R...RsdMKjj-X2.jpg
The 4* block is best for forward bite; I very rarely have a problem with forward traction if I've got the 4* block and arms/hubs forward. If the 4* block kills too much steering though (it shouldn't, see recommendations below for steering tips), you can run the 3* block and dremel the hubs to move them an "extra" 1mm forward. That's a compromise between the 4* wheelbase/CVD angle and the lesser toe-in to keep on-power steering. I wouldn't be afraid to add some weight to the rear of the car either. Front and rear weight don't have to be either/or, sometimes a slightly heavier car just feels much more settled and is loads easier to drive. I almost always have 14 to 28 grams around/behind the motor (Cut a lead piece in half diagonally, stack the triangles together and they'll fit great in the little triangular braces in the back of the chassis, just between the transmission and motor.) As to the front end: Ribbed tires generally have more steering than treads. If you feel the steering is washing out mid-corner with the bobcats up front, I would try some JConcepts groovy's, Losi 7202/7204s, Proline 8175's, etc. Ribs definitely steer more when there's loose stuff on top. That short front camber link, with no ballstud washers, is going to allow the front end to roll easily but without much authority, which could lead to the steering washing out mid-corner. If the car goes in well but won't hold the turn, I'd recommend going to the inside hole on the front tower, start with one washer. Especially with the long rear link, going to a longer front link will help with the overall balance of the car.
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#13
23-11-2011
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Nic, I love driving my X - 60 on tracks like that. Had an indoor track last weekend: smooth watered top soil. I hated it.
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#15
23-11-2011
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I want to add that I liked FastLane Hobbies very much. A great place to race, and Chuck & Steve are totally cool. The whole place is clean (!), the pits are even carpeted (!) the chairs comfortable, hobby store well stocked, and the whole place managed well. I just prefer the loose outdoor surfaces.
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#16
25-11-2011
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Quote:
However the rear right is 60g heavier than the rear left. I'll see if there is anything I can do to take weight off the rear right corner, or if I must add to the rear left and see how it goes. Quote:
I forgot to change the spring/stand up the shock more when I added the lead up front, I think this could have been part of my problem. Next chance I get to test/practice I will play around with the rear camber link/spring. Quote:
I also raised the gearbox with the gold shims (.03?) and after that it was starting to feel pretty good but not quite perfect. So I moved the rear hubs and arms full forward and again noticed a little improvement, not much of one but there nonetheless. I found the rear end was still a little squirmy at times (loose/dusty track probably not helping) so I put the 4° toe block on and pretty much fixed that although I did loose a little steering, pushes a little bit in a couple of corners, still better than what it was though and over all is still more consistent and predictable. I also made the front camber link longer (moved in on shock tower) and added 3x of the #4 washers and this again made an improvement although I think I might have to take one of the washers out as I felt it had a slight tendency to roll over more. The front end felt more solid but didnt really solve the 4° toe block issue. I'll leave the wing till last I think, see how it goes. So at the moment I think a fraction more rear side bite and a little mid corner steering would be great. On top of all that though, I did all this testing on fairly worn goosebumps and VP Pro 201 rib fronts, I did do a couple of laps with the bobcats and v1 barcodes and these were near magic, although I still had the same issues as with the other tyres just not as often and not as bad. Thanks everyone for the help, I really do appreciate it.
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#18
30-11-2011
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Ta mate, I'll keep that in mind for now, its not that big an issue to spend that much on hubs at the moment.
I moved the camber links outwards (same length as before just 2-b in front and 2-c in rear, this made a nice difference, steering is more linear and consistent, feels like it can be pushed a little harder. I also rebuild my shocks the other night and moved them around/tried different springs (same pistons and oils though), also put a bit more droop on (especially the front) It feels a bit better at the moment but has very little on power steering, I think I'll have to take out that front droop (although I havn't ran it on the track since I have done it). I'm hoping I can get out to the track tomorrow and test it out (been raining today). Either way it is feeling much better than before. Also, does anyone know where I can get ball studs that have a hex fitting in the end, a few of them are in really awkward places and I have actually cut a slot into the 4 inner camber links to move them, before it took me forever to move them around.
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#19
30-11-2011
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I think Lunsford supply the ones that come in the X6 EC:
https://www.lunsfordracing.com/mm5/m...gory_Code=BALL Should be available from all good Lunsford stockists! HTH
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X-Factory
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