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  #341  
Old 28-07-2015
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SlowOne and Xracer have made very interesting comments and I wholeheartedly embrace what both of them have said.

Going back to my pal who recently went to West Kent and raced the club mini, proceeded to buy an SS and raced, if I'm honest with very little success. He has loved every single minute of the experience but interestingly two things have come out of it...

He regrets buying the SS (hasn't said it, but I can tell) it has been a problem child from the very outset. He purchased the starter set from Schumacher with the core RC esc etc to get him going. Yes it got him up and running but it came at much angst not knowing the ropes with many very irritating traites the car has/had. Tonight I am just back from building his newly purchased Zen, yes him too, and he said whilst we installed the electrics, (the second thing) he is hoping this car provides some consistency in performance and its reliability to perform to a standard that will allow him to build some confidence.

I suppose my point is, Zen and Mardave have to be recommended by the people who have been in this GT12 class for a significant time, SSGT is not for newbies, they simply handle like a dog until they are hopped up to any level. Anybody who says otherwise is kidding themselves. Zen on the other hand, yet to try mine yet, certainly appears to be different.

New blood into this hobby is key as with any interest, why make a product that does not embrace newbies and makes it uphill from the outset. So far, Zen and Mardave by the sounds of it do the opposite.

Let's try and flatline all drivers with the equipment and make it true driving only. Schumacher have got too technical in my opinion, nobody wants a car that has ridiculous amount of setups and options. Out the box, on the track and get stuck in. I know my newbie pal will be buzzing by the end of Thursday night at Maritime, not because he has setup ylhis car perfectly but merely purchased a product that allows him to enjoy the sport and see a way to improving his driving.

I truly have found a hobby that delivers total escapism from my work life and I am extremely grateful I have GT12 in my life, not everyone has persistence and drive to get better, I just wonder how many people GT12 has lost due to the SSGT being the car most recommended. I love/loved my SSGT but I wouldn't want to go back to the beginning and have to plough through all the options and find out what they will do for me. No way, not for me....

Roll on Thursday.....!!
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  #342  
Old 29-07-2015
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Default Ah Zen for all!

Sorry about the pun guys but it looks like a few of us have now made the leap from the SSGT to an RSGT, if I had seen one before I bought my SS then it would have been my first choice for its pure simplicity and a proper 1/12th diff!

I have had fun racing the SSGT but also had many problems with it, inconsistent handling for various reasons but mostly due to the diff, so I discovered after some very close scrutiny.

Needless to say though the GT12 class has matured very quickly and given a lot of drivers some real fun, it has attracted many drivers from other categories too and is also appealing to the full age spectrum, long may it do so, it is low initial cost compared to TC's and OR's, long may it stay so!
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  #343  
Old 29-07-2015
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One thing characterises your view of the GT world as far as I can make out - it is new to you. Those if us who came from pan car classes to GT12 have had no trouble at all making any of these cars work.

I built my SS and raced it with a set-up from the Schumacher web site. Understanding how foam-tyre case behave I made a few small changes to suit tracks. The car was predictable, fast and totally reliable.

I had exactly the same experience with my SSGT and with my Zen. However, most people would not notice the subtleties of my set-up, nor the attention to detail of my build. I suspect that anyone moving in to any new class would experience these sort of 'growing' pains. That's what I passed on to you guys.

I think you are unfair on both the cars and the people when you put problems down to a wrong choice of car. Properly set up an SS 'RTR' kit will give hours of pleasure and I would wager that with a top ten driver they would beat you with your Zens.

If you really want fresh blood in GT12, then embrace their choice, help them get the best from it and help people get their cars built and set up for reliable racing.

XRacer is right - the class has matured quickly and it is a couple of years away from having got as much it can from the rules as set. Once that point is reached there will be three or four cars out there that go well straight out of the box.

I know you all want this class to succeed and to promote it through things like this thread and helping new drivers. However, dissing one car or praising another isn't the way to do that.

All the cars are good, it is how they are set up and driven that counts. That's where we come in - helping people get the best set-up and build on their car so that first driving experience is the beginning of a happy time racing GT12, whatever car they choose.

Let's get back on topic- we haven't had an excited Stu update on his racing for while. There is advice to be given!!
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  #344  
Old 29-07-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stucartwright View Post
SlowOne and Xracer have made very interesting comments and I wholeheartedly embrace what both of them have said.

Going back to my pal who recently went to West Kent and raced the club mini, proceeded to buy an SS and raced, if I'm honest with very little success. He has loved every single minute of the experience but interestingly two things have come out of it...

He regrets buying the SS (hasn't said it, but I can tell) it has been a problem child from the very outset. He purchased the starter set from Schumacher with the core RC esc etc to get him going. Yes it got him up and running but it came at much angst not knowing the ropes with many very irritating traites the car has/had. Tonight I am just back from building his newly purchased Zen, yes him too, and he said whilst we installed the electrics, (the second thing) he is hoping this car provides some consistency in performance and its reliability to perform to a standard that will allow him to build some confidence.

I suppose my point is, Zen and Mardave have to be recommended by the people who have been in this GT12 class for a significant time, SSGT is not for newbies, they simply handle like a dog until they are hopped up to any level. Anybody who says otherwise is kidding themselves. Zen on the other hand, yet to try mine yet, certainly appears to be different.

New blood into this hobby is key as with any interest, why make a product that does not embrace newbies and makes it uphill from the outset. So far, Zen and Mardave by the sounds of it do the opposite.

Let's try and flatline all drivers with the equipment and make it true driving only. Schumacher have got too technical in my opinion, nobody wants a car that has ridiculous amount of setups and options. Out the box, on the track and get stuck in. I know my newbie pal will be buzzing by the end of Thursday night at Maritime, not because he has setup ylhis car perfectly but merely purchased a product that allows him to enjoy the sport and see a way to improving his driving.

I truly have found a hobby that delivers total escapism from my work life and I am extremely grateful I have GT12 in my life, not everyone has persistence and drive to get better, I just wonder how many people GT12 has lost due to the SSGT being the car most recommended. I love/loved my SSGT but I wouldn't want to go back to the beginning and have to plough through all the options and find out what they will do for me. No way, not for me....

Roll on Thursday.....!!

that has to be one of the worst posts on here, and pure bollocks...
all the four cars currently available can and do win.

anyone who is reading this and has a Schumacher or any other gt12 and is struggling, please message me and I will send you to a team driver of each car, and tell you where to go to get the info to get it sorted, instead if dissing gt12...
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  #345  
Old 30-07-2015
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Interesting rebuttals from both Slowone and Mark Christopher; Mark, your choice of potty mouthed language on a forum that could be seen by younger generations is not something I wish to get involved with on a public forum, eloquence is clearly a direction you either don't know or wish to take, so I will choose to ignore your posting. Coming from someone who is clearly a bastion of the BRCA, I am not sure this type of reply would be something the federation would embrace? Maybe I'm wrong here, freedom of speech and experiences is everything this forum is here to express in the most polite and evidence based way.

Slowone, you were very lucky to have had the pan car training, once again this has no place when it comes to my observations and experiences, which unfortunately you have not gone through. Me and my pal have had to come into the simply awesome class of GT12 with a blank canvas which is all the point I was making, and how easy and maluable it has been or not been. I love this class, as everyone can see from my enthusiasm, present in every step of this thread.

Your help Slowone has been valuable, and without doubt had a massive hand I my enjoyment which I am hugely hugely grateful for. I am by the nature of my job, like researching getting better being competitive etc... The SSGT requires all of that, I simply posed the question the SSGT and SS need more of this time and research to deliver a performance, which people these may not all have.

Zen clearly delivers this less time heavy investment and gives a more rounded and completed car straight out the box. If I am not able to say which car I prefer and what my experiences are and accused of "dissing" a product then this will be sadly my last posting because you have set unrealistic limits on my postings. I sincerely hope your drive about capping views on my Zen and SSGT experience does not come from being a sponsored driver.

GT12 is a class as I understand it and not a manufacturer of a car, there are four cars to choose from, maybe five, giving a newbie experience in "which car is better" is valuable. That is what this thread is all about, and hope WE have given that to folk out there. Setups of the SSGT, driving, club nights etc...

I am all about promoting GT12 not dissing it!!!

Roll on Thursday, oh it is, racing at Maritime, BRING IT ON!

Over and out...
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  #346  
Old 30-07-2015
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The word I chose in in the Oxford dictionary
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de...glish/bollocks
And you will hear far worse in a class room.

To slate any car is in my books not on, you have probably just offended many racers with a Schumacher gt and in fact since my last post I have had one racer contact me. That is a positive as they have had a reply from me and responce as promised from a top team driver .

I'd put it to you that
1/ your car was poorley built
2/ you jumped in and bought every option before you learnt the car in its basic form, which still would have worked and been competitive. I know as I built two cars one kit, one with options, and like slow reviewed them for a magazine.


I am a sponsored Schumacher driver, but you will not see me dissing other makes, Pete is a feelancer and has both a Schumacher and Zen, he will express his findings of them both, but will in no way diss any of them. As he like me knows a fast driver will beat him with any car.
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  #347  
Old 30-07-2015
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Default gt12

not a gt12 racer as of yet looking to get one at a later date but having read the last few posts heres something to also factor that no one and I repeat no one takes into account and never once seen anyone add this to there posts. I race OR at the moment raced off road 20+ years ago drove many dif cars buying a kit that can run str8 out of the box does no favours to anyone as when something goes wrong what do you do as you have no idea where to start. getting a basic setup with a kit would to me benefit the newbie to learn the car and how changing something affects it for the better or worse. now here is the point I would like to add everyone has a different driving style they need to find it and set a car up to that others knowledge can help explaining how doing something to the car works but buying a ssgt a zen or a mardave will all depend on what the person wants from the car and does the car suit there driving style
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  #348  
Old 30-07-2015
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I couldn't agree more with that, my mate had an ssgt he he didn't like it sold it to me and got the mardave and love it I'm running the ssgt and I love that. I think the ssgt is the best car out there. Different cars will suit different drivers the no bad cars in gt12 there all good some tracks will suit different cars and some cars will suit different drivers
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  #349  
Old 30-07-2015
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Stu, you can say what you like on here, and so can Mark and I. I am someone who likes what you do and reads what you say. If you cannot accept that my interpretation of what you wrote is valid, then that's a shame.

Whatever one writes in a public forum is noticed. Too many people who know little and care less give opinions and answers that are, frankly, bollocks. People read it and think it comes from someone who knows, copy it, get nowhere and give up. That is not you, but please re-read your post from Mark and my perspective and try to see our point.

This is not a biggie amongst us, I do hope you will carry on as before. You are entitled to whatever opinion you have - I gave another point of view of your post and another opinion. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that every comment is criticism, that way lies madness!

It's Thursday - I hope you having a blast at Maritime!
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  #350  
Old 30-07-2015
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I had the first SS,
I built it with the diff,springs to the outside,forget what the go to springs were,go to tire compound,
Raced at my local club and had a ball,thought we would do some meetings,soon realised that the cars were far from competitive,spoke to a Schumacher driver and did all the tricks and tips that they were putting on the car and it was night and day the difference,to say he built it bad or wrong is unfair,just maybe behind on the tips that improve the cars handling,all the little things really do add up to a much better car,that's the same with any class or car,and all part of the fun I think 👍🏼
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  #351  
Old 31-07-2015
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Text always reads cold.......that's a problem as you can't see the persons expression or lilt in their voice.

One point I'll refer back to is coming from 1/8 buggies and touring cars on Tarmac I couldn't believe how well my GT12 ran first time out, almost fast enough, went round corners on rails, predictable, leaving me wondering what else could I possibly do to this thing as it was so good.

Luckily you guys chipped in, so Stu keep this thread alive with your travels, and Mark, Slowone, Xracer keep the advice a coming.

There will be "X" times as many people reading this and getting hints, tips and ideas but who never post on the forum.
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  #352  
Old 31-07-2015
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Default A little reflection!

Firstly it is great to see such passion from you guys for what has become a very successful conversion from what was effectively a humble (and I do say that very cautiously) low cost stock car design into a full blooded and refined 1/12 racing car.

We have to congratulate Mardave for sticking with this simple low cost philosophy for what is generations now and for them to now see it blossom into what it has become and created this very competitive passion.

We now see a number of manufacturers committing to the formula with a range of interpretations of that original design, each with its own idiosyncratic ideas to create something different to their competition.

How healthy is that, we have choice, we have preferences, each has to decide which camp to pitch into, we see our national championship contenders driving each of their chosen or sponsored designs, all with degrees of success and we all would love to be able to emulate their success, some of us are capable and some are not!

What I don't see though is people 'dissing' the efforts of their creators!

What I do see is the honest feedback of individual experience of whatever design they have spent their hard earned cash on and tried, yes some of those experiences may have lacked the knowledge to convert it into a fully satisfactory and rewarding experience, we have had fun doing it obviously, because we are still here championing the formula!

My own model car experiences are very varied, I am an aging middle order driver, I have been racing all forms of model cars since I bought my first, it was a Heathkit Spectre 1/8th I/C with a K&B Veco 19 way back in 1970 and 1/8th I/C was my original passion!!!

I for one will be returning to the carpet in September, I have a Schumacher and a Zen, neither in my eyes are perfect designs, I will race both and see which delivers the maximum satisfaction for me, if my final judgement is regarded as 'dissing' any design then I am sorry if it is seen that way but it will be my judgement based on my ability to build, tune and race, no one else's!

Of course I may even decide to race my CRC GT10 instead, now that is another story, as I hope to see a resurgence in that formula with at least a full heat at my local clubs, bring it on!

Just one pet hate I have and wish to share, that is foam tyres, always have and always will, I would love to see the advent of proper rubber tyres for these formula but I don't suppose I ever will!
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  #353  
Old 31-07-2015
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XRacer, it's lovely to see what could be construed as an inbiased view on what has been written, and I certainly appreciate your appraisal of no sign to be dissing creators, but honest feedback of individual experience,which is all I referenced.

Forums seem to bring on a confrontational stance in people, but I never once wished to offend or discredit any manufacturer with any design because as you so writely say, in the right hands any car will metaphorically sing.

Anyway, last evening saw my first outing with the Zen, after changing the ride height due to the new guess the kit came with, applying the shins and the rear spacers, car was set and off I went. My fastest laptime to my average dropped below a second which is better than my previous by some 3/4 of a second on the same track I've been driving on for five weeks. I qualified on pole for the B final, narrowly missing it on my very first official A final at maritime which is by far as competitive as any venue in the south.

My pal, with his Zen, had the most laps ever, lowest lap time ever and all we did was plug in a drive. We both left with the biggest smile ever and can't wait to get back to the track.

For a first time out, with a car never run before I think my point has been proved the Zen FOR ME is far better than the SSGT and delivers an out the box experience like no other. I could have turned up with one rench, some batteries, charger and tyre additive and that would have been enough. If a newbie knew this, I think the choice of first car would be simple. I didn't pick up the manual for the car once, mainly because there is nothing of it, because it is already race tuned and FOR ME performed like a dream.

Jeez what a night... Loved it.
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  #354  
Old 31-07-2015
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After being in the Uk 7 months and being racing TC in both carpet and outdoors I have take the decision of buying (and bought) a GT12, was doubting between a proper 12th lmp or a GT12, in my club are always people running GT12, so the decision was easy.
I am in the process of buying all the stuff, at the moment I have the chassis, speedo and maybe I can use one of my TC motors.
has anyone used Much more motors on gt12 with 1s? I have a 13.5T and I do not know if It will be enough.
What servo is people using? i was thinking on a savox 1257mg, is it good enough?
Bodies, which one is neutral? ferrari one? ascari? mclaren?
has anyone tried the hobbyking 6400mAh?

Thanks!!!
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  #355  
Old 31-07-2015
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Firstly, a huge welcome to GT12. Awesome class from start to finish Jimjav.

I have no experience with the Much More motors, but the turnigy 6400 1s Lipo's are the best money can buy at that cost, the more expensive Lipo's I have not tried, but for me, I can't believe the extra 30/40/50 pounds a Lipo's won't be seen by me at this stage...

The Core RC servo is the best it seems with most using, it's the designed specifically for the GT12 class. You will see it in the advert on all model shops in the description. Most are on the Mclaren body with Ascari in a very close second place.

Hope that helps, welcome to the thread BTW!!

Best Wishes
Stu
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  #356  
Old 31-07-2015
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Hi jimjav as Stu says welcome to your new racing adventure.

The GT12 class is for 13.5T motors so your motor is correct in that respect, as for its performance I have no doubt it will be OK when geared correctly, this can be very much track dependent, tight and twisty or open and fast, the other guys at your club should offer good advice hopefully but a range 65-72 mm/rev respectively is not a bad starting point usually, your motor will soon tell you if you have over geared.

Servos are a personal choice usually but GT12's ideally favour one sized for 1/12th use and this gives a nice tight tidy layout for the rest of your gear, I personally use the KO RSx12.

Most LiPo's are generally OK if in good nick, if buying new then again which is best is another personal choice usually, I have seen recommendations on here for just about every major supplier, here my choice is Intellect.

If you trail back through this thread you will see all sorts of discussion or even the Facebook GT12 pages for even more, so happy hunting and happy racing.
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  #357  
Old 31-07-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xracer View Post
Just one pet hate I have and wish to share, that is foam tyres, always have and always will, I would love to see the advent of proper rubber tyres for these formula but I don't suppose I ever will!
You won't! Rubber tyres have a continuous contact patch and once they lose grip the car is gone. Foam tyres have, effectively, a discontinuous contact patch. Whilst one part may lose grip, another part still has it. The transition from grip to no grip is thus very progressive and makes driving those tyres easier and the car faster.

As you might imagine, rubber tyres have been tried many times in the past. From custom ones for 12th through adaptions of TC tyres to caps - and none of them gets anywhere near a foam tyre.

It's the Laws of Physics, and those you cannot bend or misinterpret!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stucartwright View Post
For a first time out, with a car never run before I think my point has been proved the Zen FOR ME is far better than the SSGT and delivers an out the box experience like no other. I could have turned up with one rench, some batteries, charger and tyre additive and that would have been enough. If a newbie knew this, I think the choice of first car would be simple. I didn't pick up the manual for the car once, mainly because there is nothing of it, because it is already race tuned and FOR ME performed like a dream.

Jeez what a night... Loved it.
That's the point and that's how it should be made. For someone else another car might be perfect. That so many people are finding one car suits them better than the other is just fine, but that doesn't mean there is something wrong with one car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stucartwright View Post
The Core RC servo is the best it seems with most using, it's the designed specifically for the GT12 class. You will see it in the advert on all model shops in the description. Most are on the Mclaren body with Ascari in a very close second place.
Be aware that Core servo - a good one - does not fit a Zen without modification to the servo mounting points and the Futaba 9650 - the de-facto standard for the best servo - does not fit an SSGT without redrilling the servo mounting points.

Redrilling those points is allowed in the rules. HTH

Stu, so glad you have found a car you like and that your results are showing that benefit. The class is awesome and it's great to know others are joining in and having fun. Keep up the good work!
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  #358  
Old 31-07-2015
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ater reading through this post as i am considering trying gt12 out over the next few months to sharpen up my driving skills i am confused as to which chassis to get?based in west yorkshire i will probably go to sherburn and theres a track at sheffield i believe?does the £100 limit apply here?and as to what extent?i have no idea on rules at club level,so i dont want to turn up with lets say a zen at approx £160 to be told i can't run it yet it appears you can get the schumacher car at under £100 and throw a wedge of money at it but still be allowed.ideally i want one car that can be used at several clubs.i have no idea on how to set a car up or what does what.also i see certain shells being mentioned as the best to use-does this mean that other shells make a car handle badly?i get some enjoyment out of my cars looking good and like something i may have had.im no pro just your average club racer that wants to come off the rostrum with a smile on my face.many thanks,jez.
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  #359  
Old 31-07-2015
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Hi Slowone
The core RC servo fitted straight in to my Zen no modification needed :-)

Thanks for the kind words, always my intention to make it my point of view, I believe I made this clear in my original post...

Have a great weekend chaps.

Stu
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  #360  
Old 31-07-2015
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Jez you can buy a Zen for £99 its a base kit the same idea as the SSGT.

(correct me if im wrong here someone) The rule says the car has to be under £100 so all the manufacturer make a kit at that price.

Schumacher do there's by selling the kit at £99 then you can buy the upgrades to make it to the standard you want.

Zen and Mardave on the other hand sell a £99 base kit and you can buy the upgrades or they will sell you a kit for £180 with all the upgrades already in the box to save you buying them individually ie Race kits.

So whatever you deside to buy be it the humble SSGT or a Zen or Mardave race kit will be ok, and BTW there is a new player on the block the ORE but don't know much about that as its new to the blocks

As for the smile on your face i'm sure will be as broad as any as the racing is fast and close.

HTH's

Shiny.
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