Where have the young drivers gone?

[jcb]

At Norfolk Buggy Club we have since Christmas now got 6 under 16's all racing 10th off road. All of them have an Ansmann 2wd which is seeming to be a good bit of kit for the new comers that they are. It seems that parts are cheap and easily available, with a decent number of options to make it competitive as ability and funds improve.
They all seem to be enjoying their racing, which I think partly comes about as they are all in one heat together and all have pretty much the same equipment which is making them very competitive. It's also good that it's turning into a family day out with brothers, sisters and Mum coming along for the day which I think helps a lot.

There are far too many options out there for kids from computers, sport, social clubs etc etc to do and model car racing also involves a lot of parent support in helping maintain the car away from the race meeting and more importantly supplying the transport and funds to get them out racing every other week.

I also think a lot comes down to how the club and model shops portray themselves, model car racing needs to be seen as fun and enjoyable for the kid and affordable for the parent who is most likely going to be funding it. I would think at some of the larger clubs I have raced at it's quite a daunting feeling for young lad or lass to turn up with Dad in toe, to see the masses of equipment that the majority of seasoned racers carry. I also feel that some of the youngsters I have seen come and go in the past want to be good straight away and don't have the will to persist and practice, which is eventually what makes you good at RC Racing.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by VincentVisser

I agree and understand your point here but as the BRCA this is a very Government Body type of response.

You (committee members) create the rule book
You (committee members) create the regional events
You (committee members) set the rules for the clubs to follow.

Instead of pointing the finger and saying the above which is such a "it's not us its you response" you could have looked at it and said these are valid points and as the BRCA we could maybe look into making some changes to the rule book to try and see if we can force clubs to have young driver heats. (I think some clubs might be shocked to only see 1 or 2 people standing there on the rostrum)

I would just like to point out I have no connection with the BRCA committees, I am just an ordinary member like the majority of us here. I have no connection with the running of it at all, but I do know how it is run. I am only a BRCA member because I sometimes race at clubs that require BRCA membership and the insurance cover is useful.

My own club is not BRCA affiliated either.

The rule book is created by the ordinary racers, at the AGM they propose rules and rule changes, and then vote on whether to change the rules or not. The committee can't create any rules without the membership voting them in.

The regional events are created by the ordinary racers, they put in the proposal for them then it is down to the regional reps and the clubs to organise. So for the North east that's Kash Khan and the North east clubs to sort out, not any "BRCA committee" imposing their will.

No one sets rules for the clubs to follow. The ordinary racers create the rules for BRCA sanctioned meetings such as the nationals and regionals. whether a club follows some or all of the rules is entirely down to the clubs themselves. If the club is full of narrow minded pedants who insist on sticking to the BRCA rules over what is better for the club then that is down to them.

We can also look at regional or competition events to have under 13 heats instead of having everybody of all ages in the same heats. We could also have a look at regional’s or competitions where under 13 do not pay entrance fees. You could be doing allot more than "your question really is what are you doing to promote the sport."

Great ideas, but it isn't down to the BRCA committee to impose rules or events onto the clubs, the committee only does what the members tell it to do.
As for what I'm doing, well I went out and spent 3 days of my time running demo cars, letting kids try their hand at rc cars to promote the hobby and telling them about all the local clubs not just my own. My club has around 25% of the racers being the kids you want to attract, this week we had 6 kids out of 23 racers. We also had 4 new racers, 3 newcomers and one returning from racing years ago. What more as an ordinary BRCA member, the same as you, should I be doing?

The BRCA isn't a business with a CEO or board that tells everyone what to do, it's an association and the BRCA can only do what the members of the Association want it to do. If you put in a proposal and you can convince the majority to vote for it at the AGM, then the BRCA adopts whatever changes that have been passed. If you want reduced fees for juniors at the regionals or other BRCA events then go ahead and propose it at the AGM. if you want reduced fees at club meetings that's entirely down to the clubs themselves.

Touring cars already have a 'Young Guns' junior championship, it is just a single event rather than a series but it does exist. It came about because someone wanted it to happen and actually did something about it, rather than complain that someone else didn't do it for them. You want a junior championship run by the BRCA offroad section, then propose one at the AGM and get it voted in, or just either organise it yourself or persuade someone else to organise it. There isn't any rule preventing anyone from doing it.

This is where the problem is. We need to look at clubs as to what you/they do and what can be imroved to try and get more young drivers involved.

I can honestly say I have not been to any of those shows before you mentioned and I am not planning to go because they are pricey so would have not found out about racing rc cars unless I met someone that did it and introduced it to me. (This is where we come in...promote what we do more...I am doing this on a regular bases)

That's the point, it's showing r/c racing to groups of people who don't know it exists. I can also pointout that if someone else finds the £10 entry fee to the show I recently demonstrated at as pricey, then they aren't going to be buying an r/c car, especially when it can cost more than £10 in race entry fees at bigger meetings.

As has been said earlier, both Stockport and Bury clubs already attract lots of kids, and we get them to stay. The way this is done is that both clubs treat club days more of a social occasion, with everyone having fun and less serious racing. This attitude tends to scare off the committed racers who are only interested in racing, but then that's no bad thing as the serious racers are the ones that intimidate newcomers with their pit tables full of equipment and spending their time between races either working on their cars or sticking with their small clique of mates. The drivers that help keep new racers and especially newcomers coming back are the ones that between races just put their batteries on charge and go over and chat with the new faces to make them feel part of the club.

At both clubs we also put the kids together whatever they are running, and only when they are fast enough to compete with the adults move them into the most appropriate heats.

We need the info structure in place to make the under 13 kids injoy it when they come to a club and to a regional event and unfortunately it is not up to the normal racer but up to the BRCA to put rules in place so that clubs and race event organisers take action. (Some clubs refuse to change because the BRCA Book they follow does not state that they have to do so.

If you read the BRCA handbook there is nothing in there at all which tells clubs how they must be run, that is entirely down to the clubs themselves.

There are a set of rules for BRCA sanctioned races in each racing class in the handbook, but those have nothing to do with the rules clubs use. Whether the club decides to adopt those rules is down to the individual club. I do know if I had checked over all the 23 cars at my club last night there would be only 2 or 3 that are BRCA legal. If a club is going to stick resolutely to the BRCA rules then I would question the motives of the club members who have decided to run to those rules which will put off new members. What makes kids enjoy club meetings is entirely down to the attitude of the club members, if the regular racers are friendly or not depends on whether the new racers enjoy themselves or not and whether they come back again.

As I pointed out above the BRCA isn't a business, it is an association. It is up to the normal racer what the BRCA does, the BRCA won't put rules in place without the authorisation of the members, the normal racers.
A perfect example of this is the new Mardave circuit racing class. A few racers were shouting on forums about why the BRCA didn't publish any rules specifically for them and how the BRCA should be doing something about it. It was some time before someone actually contacted the appropriate BRCA section and the reply that came back was that there weren't any rules because no one had actually asked for them before. The Mardave racers then went away and wrote their own rules for the class, which then developed into the new class at the 1/12th nationals.
The point is that the class has been created because someone wanted to run it and actually went and created rules for it, rather than just moaned that 'someone' should be doing it for them.

If you think we should have a junior championship or separate junior class races at the regionals to encourage the more experienced kids, then someone put in a proposal at the AGM. If it is voted in then it becomes the BRCAs responsibility to actually run it and promote it.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by Jamesk

What is stopping us running at school's when they have summer fete's are on either as a meeting or demo runs and try and get a few shops involved or importers like CML or JE Spare's etc. They all have good RTR's on sale and a few demo's with them could work for all.
When i worked at a model shop in Harrow many years ago we did demo's in schools,shopping centers and the response was very good and we found a lot of new members for the local clubs.

jK

There is nothing to stop anyone doing this. If they have the space spare then school fairs and summer fetes should be happy to allow r/c cars, either as a demonstration area or even letting the kids have a go with cheap detuned cars. All it takes is someone to get out there and organise it. A few racers to demonstrate, timber, rope or hose to lay out a simple track layout and you have your demo area. A few old cars put together to let the kids try it out, charge them a pound or two for 5 minutes running to cover your costs and breakages and you will have people queuing to have a go. If you don't have spare cars and electrics try contacting shops or distributors for help in return for advertising them. A few leaflets about the club to hand out to anyone looking interested and you are doing everything you can to attract new members.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by sosidge

Quite right on the typical BRCA response!

Your "typical BRCA response" has come from an ordinary club racer, someone who has no interest in national or regional racing and someone who has nothing to do with the BRCA.

Yet I still have respect and a high opinion of those volunteers who do actually spend an awful lot of their spare time helping to run the association, organise the BRCA meetings and help promote the hobby.

There are too many BRCA members who would rather sit at home and complain about decisions made by the BRCA instead of going to the AGM and taking part in the decision making themselves. Many complain about BRCA committee members yet never volunteer for the jobs themselves even though they think they could do it better.

If something is a great success... the individuals that represent the BRCA are to be praised. They give up so much of their time etc. etc.

If something is a failure... it's the BRCA membership as a whole that are to be blamed. You vote on the rules etc. etc.

Yes, the BRCA membership is "to blame" when they vote to do something that fails, in the same way the BRCA membership is also "to blame" when everything goes well.

What have "the BRCA" done that's failed in your eyes, should an individual be to blame and be removed from the committee or from an individual clubs committee if they messed up?

If someone goes out of their way to help the hobby then do you not think they should be thanked for their efforts?

[stuartw]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

Touring cars already have a 'Young Guns' junior championship, it is just a single event rather than a series but it does exist. It came about because someone wanted it to happen and actually did something about it, rather than complain that someone else didn't do it for them. You want a junior championship run by the BRCA offroad section, then propose one at the AGM and get it voted in, or just either organise it yourself or persuade someone else to organise it. There isn't any rule preventing anyone from doing it.

The Offroad section have and do organise a Junior National Championship. This has been in place since the early 90's, and is open to Under 13's & Under 16's. This years event will be held in September at Broxtowe.
Anyone who wishes to enter should contact their Regional Rep for details.

[Lee24h]

I personally think a lack of small level sponsorship
Is missing as well i dont mean anything of large scale
But a little bit of discount here and there a t shirt and decals
Just to keep young drivers racing for a incetive to keep there
Sponsor and then gradly improve.
I personally started when i was 12 seven years ago
Now i can afford to run three cars but back then i had to
Run on a pocket money budget which of course kept me slow
And if had earnt a position i wasn't going to budge to let faster
Cars through and i think thats the problem young driver develop that
Mind set
Plus running a mission back then i had problems i just bodged them which
Ment i couldn't improve its only the the past four years that i have slowly been able to afford to fix things myself.

[Tony Long]

I race (I am in my dads oOple account) every other week at Tipton St John club in Devon and i am the youngest there (I have just turned 13) there is only two other younger guys there that are about 15 one is realy keen (Tom on page 1 on this forum) and the other does not come very often .It is a small club but you would think there would be more younger people

I really enjoy it and I have just bright some LRP lipos and a charger for £140 and I am going to get a DEX210 soon i have been saving up for 1 1/2 years after getting my B4.1 RTR (Really good for beginners or young people) I have also sprayed my bull dog body (see picture)because it looks better and one of my mates said he would love doing spray and customization.I can only afford this because i have no Xbox and no PS3 but most of my friends do so they could not simply afford it. I try to get my mates to go but they can't see the point of paying minimum of £150 to get a chassis (like a FTX or a mad rat)to race they would much rather just get Xbox or PS3 games no doubt.
The only reason that I don't go to a bigger club is the cost of parts and tires it is just to much.Also my dad does not have the time.

I don't think that a demo would work they are just to engrossed in games.But a club car would be a reallly good idea maybe even 2 so mates can race together.

Every body down the club is very helpful .They set up my car /charger give me advise on cars and set up and give me old tires that don't have the grip for them but are fine for me. Thanks to Paul and Mark field especially!

[VincentVisser]

Originally Posted by Tony Long

I have just turned 13

I try to get my mates to go but they can't see the point of paying minimum of £150 to get a chassis (like a FTX or a mad rat)to race they would much rather just get Xbox or PS3 games no doubt.

Agh I think the point is to try and get kids under 13 involved as soon as possible. As soon as they have PS3 and XBOX360's it’s even harder to get kids involved. You want kids to enjoy the racing and it’s all about fun not the actual race part they enjoy. It’s more looked at as time with dad or time with friends away from home.

I do understand the PS3 and Xbox Generation. I have a PS3 and the only reason I do racing is to get away from it and this is up to parents that think PS3 is like a babysitter that you switch it on and the kids are taken care of...but when they get older it’s the only thing they on and then parents don’t understand why kids of today just want to be on the PS3 all the time? (Irony)

[VincentVisser]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

I would just like to point out I have no connection with the BRCA committees, I am just an ordinary member like the majority of us here. I have no connection with the running of it at all, but I do know how it is run. I am only a BRCA member because I sometimes race at clubs that require BRCA membership and the insurance cover is useful.

That’s why I said that it’s not pointed to you as a individual but rather the BRCA in general. + I stated I take my hat off to you for doing the demos and trying to promote it.

What I mean by BRCA in general is that they seem to wait for people to come up with new ideas and that’s very responsive type of thinking. Something gets brought up and then they deal with it.

This seems to be working but you would think that the BRCA must notice that young member counts are dropping. (They get the registration forms every year.) And surely they should have looked at this and gone "hold on our under 13 driver registration numbers are dropping. Maybe we should look into this?"

By reading all of the people’s comments it is clear that we all play a massive part in this.

as a BRCA member
as a Club
as Sponsors
as Manufacturers
as Race Event Organisers

We all play a massive role in promoting what we do as a RC community to young drivers. I don’t think there is one solution to the problem but to advertise what we do more around schools and so on.

The problem is that when people buy into all this RC racing business. You have to have in place a "new person" heat or under 13 heats where younger drivers can come and just have fun with their own age. Yes we will have to fight with PS3 and Xbox but if you don’t at least try and get new young drivers involved then you might as well stop racing now as it will just get to a point that your club slowly gets smaller and smaller and stops functioning as the drivers are all in retirement. (Nothing wrong with retirement drivers...they still beat myself )

[Barry Williams]

"On the day there where I think I counted only 4 kids under 13, and the rest where well adults with toy cars and we had 1 woman driver."

Just a quick point, the Woman you mention I believe was my Daughter Natalie who is still only 14, so you can class her as another "young" driver on the day

Barry

[Thom]

Am I the lucky father? My son is 9 he wanted to start racing without any pushing. For the cost he bought a mad monkey kit out of his birthday money, with a brushed Tamiya race tuned motor with a 104 ESC. Some cheap second hand low powered Lipo batterys for a few pound and a cheap 2.4 wheel from ebay. All in just over £100. Not the fastest car but controllable. The Telstar Racing on the wednesday night on school holidays and the winter series has been great and he always looks forward to his next race. Everybody has been great and understanding even downtown swopping the marshall points to a safer place for him.
For a cheap setup in a good club he has learnt about good control hitting the corner with the right line and that staying on the track saves time. He now holds his own against far faster cars.
When the car gets broken, the price of the parts are cheap. we split the cost with some pocket money and I pay the rest.
What I am trying to say is racing does not need to be expensive, the RC car racers are generally great people and very understanding. Everything is already in place in most clubs for the kids to have a great time. People just don't know what's on there doorsteps. Unless you already race it is not easy to find your local club. After all how many posts are there on here asking where to race in the local area. Maybe it's as simple as a few flyers placed in the right area just for people to come and watch and chat just to see what they are missing out on. its all father son time.

[oldboy]

I must be another lucky dad as i used to race when i was about 16ish more years ago than i wish to remember but my son last year showed an interest in rc cars as i used to run off-road we looked for a club to go to but only found clubs running on week nights no good for a 7 year old but then i stumbled across aylesbury offroad club (aorrc) only to find that they run touring cars and minis only now ( strange but true) we went to have a look one friday night (hurray no late school night) and was struck by how freindly the racers were with one (Chris Ely) coming over and introducing himself and explaining what was happening and what we would need to race we probably went another 3 or 4 times gleaning information (and yes there are people with expensive kit who tell you thats the best to get but also realistic ones who will tell you whats best to start off with and where to try when buying it, most of my sons and my cars are 2nd hand nobody cares) while we were there looking we met Pete and Mike who run the club and are both top guys but i am now just waffling my point being the racers are freindly and helpfull, there is a good mixture of ages and standards and the race night is right. we only run 2 qualifiers and a final and i often think that i would like another race but then realise that by keeping the number of races down we keep the stress down and have a good fun but competetive nights racing.my son races in the bottom heat against drivers of around the same standard (no juniors heat here) and he loves it, we have maybe 6 fairly regular juniors spread across the heats (not in top heat yet) and i agree with one of the earlier posters talk to them make them feel they are welcome and yes please help them, understand we all start somewhere.
I am probably the most vocal to my son (you understand if you are a dad) but i think some of that is down to the fact it will be me paying and fixing his car, but the rest of the racers have been great to us both and i must thank them for that.

ps slower is faster does not compute with a 7 year old ( well not for a long time anyway)

anyway thanks for reading my waffle i hope you can glean something from it and thanks to aorrc for renewing my passion for rc.

[kartstuffer]

Ha ha ,I just had to laugh at that last comment.
My son is now 9 and is going into his 3rd year racing (along with me)and it still rings true but he is now sometimes realizing that slower is faster.
We started off in minis which didnt run this winter so we had to go the buggy route and he now loves it, the main thing is car set up for a young kid who just wants to go flat out all the time.If i set the car ( x6 ) up for me to be quick he just keeps crashing, it has to be set up so it slides around a lot and with slow steering,even if i put new tyres on he will grip roll and with his set up i cant get near his times.
We have tried a few cars Losi BK2,Associated B4,Schumacher Cougar and settled on the X6 as being the most robust and easiest for him to drive.
The guys at the club DMCC have all been very helpful and given loads of advice and encouragement.
He is progressing well and now the problem is that qualifies for the back of the A final and instead af the front of the B ( try telling a 9 year old that it is better to come 3rd or 4th in the A than winning a B or C final)
And now my 11 year old daughter has just started as well !!!
But the main thing is to get young people interested in our hobby and keep their interest as if they dont see any improvement they get fed up very quickly and they are the future.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by VincentVisser

What I mean by BRCA in general is that they seem to wait for people to come up with new ideas and that’s very responsive type of thinking. Something gets brought up and then they deal with it.

That's how the BRCA works though, the constitution states that the committees are set up to "administer for the individual needs for the members racing interests". In other words, the committees can only do what we tell them. To allow the BRCA as an organisation to go ahead and do what the committee wants to do would require a change to the constitution to be voted in at the AGM. If you want to know exactly how it works and how change things, read this about the structure.

We all play a massive role in promoting what we do as a RC community to young drivers. I don’t think there is one solution to the problem but to advertise what we do more around schools and so on.

The problem is that when people buy into all this RC racing business. You have to have in place a "new person" heat or under 13 heats where younger drivers can come and just have fun with their own age. Yes we will have to fight with PS3 and Xbox but if you don’t at least try and get new young drivers involved then you might as well stop racing now as it will just get to a point that your club slowly gets smaller and smaller and stops functioning as the drivers are all in retirement.

Definitely. Macclesfield club disappeared because the racers there took everything so seriously, and it frightened off the new racers they needed to replace the old drivers that left. If we don't keep on bringing in new racers then we run out of racers.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by VincentVisser

Agh I think the point is to try and get kids under 13 involved as soon as possible. As soon as they have PS3 and XBOX360's it’s even harder to get kids involved. You want kids to enjoy the racing and it’s all about fun not the actual race part they enjoy. It’s more looked at as time with dad or time with friends away from home.

I agree, the younger the better. One of our fastest drivers is only 14.

From around age 7 they seem to get a grasp of racing even if they are just concentrating on not hitting the barriers, and if the kids are kept together they are happy to just race against each other and look forwards to meeting all their race mates each week. Get them before they become videogame junkies and the social aspect as well as the racing will keep them coming back.
Even though we know that r/c cars is about as near to full size racing as you can get, once the youngsters have played on consoles when they are a bit older they seem to see r/c as 'toy' cars, while they think they can race a 'real' car in the games, and they don't have to fix them when they crash.

[GLYN WARD]

i ran a succesfull shop for 10 years we used to go to school summer fairs and put on demos and had 4 mardave cobras to let kids have a go with.we used to charge 50p a go and give funds to school. we where always booked up all through summer. the problem you have now is no local shops we used to have 3 in chesterfield. i blame distributors 1 in particular.
shops lead to more clubs which leads to more sales for shops.Round here when i had my shop mr booth and bailey could race every night of week and not have to drive more than 30min,

[Chris56]

About 1 year ago I was in Hobbystores in Beeston and there was a family with a youngster interested in getting into an RC hobby. I nearly lynched the shop assistant when I overheard him say "don't bother with RC cars, they're boring". I know that Hobbystores are a Ripmax outlet and tend to be bigger on RC planes etc, however out of the few high street model shops out there in Nottinghamshire I thought that they would be doing more to promote the hobby and not turn potential newbies away from it

[tnx king]

When i first started our club the most important thing to me was that anyone any car can turn up and have a race,

Young,old,mid life crisis, it didnt matter who or what car.
Last year i really started to notice that the young guns had not been coming through, we have quite a few but not enough.

So that got me thinking, why ?
1 we race on a tuesday night competition can be tight and to a newbie very scarry seeing grown men shouting at marshall

2. they would feel that they was getting in the way!

3.they dont know we exist

4.they feel there car is not good enough.

So this year we have set up practice,newbie nights, this happens on a thursday were they can bring anything down we help them and support and give advice like a buddy system really.,.

i have also set up going down to the local carnival with the local shop so we can set a track up and let kids have a go, get them involved...

my next step is to visit local schools have a demonstration show them all the cars that are available let them have a go, let them realise it doesnt cost the earth. and there is life after xbox

Another thing that was mentioned at our regional meeting was to have a regional at a public event, it didnt happen this year but i would champion this to every region in the country to show off and get what we do out there,(we sometimes get to rapped up in what we do that forget we have got to get out and promote!!!

we as a club are really focusing on grass roots and i feel that in a couple of years we should start to see the difference..

justa few thoughts and hopefully productive measures

[Sportp4ck]

Originally Posted by tnx king

When i first started our club the most important thing to me was that anyone any car can turn up and have a race,

Young,old,mid life crisis, it didnt matter who or what car.
Last year i really started to notice that the young guns had not been coming through, we have quite a few but not enough.

So that got me thinking, why ?
1 we race on a tuesday night competition can be tight and to a newbie very scarry seeing grown men shouting at marshall

2. they would feel that they was getting in the way!

3.they dont know we exist

4.they feel there car is not good enough.

So this year we have set up practice,newbie nights, this happens on a thursday were they can bring anything down we help them and support and give advice like a buddy system really.,.

i have also set up going down to the local carnival with the local shop so we can set a track up and let kids have a go, get them involved...

my next step is to visit local schools have a demonstration show them all the cars that are available let them have a go, let them realise it doesnt cost the earth. and there is life after xbox

Another thing that was mentioned at our regional meeting was to have a regional at a public event, it didnt happen this year but i would champion this to every region in the country to show off and get what we do out there,(we sometimes get to rapped up in what we do that forget we have got to get out and promote!!!

we as a club are really focusing on grass roots and i feel that in a couple of years we should start to see the difference..

justa few thoughts and hopefully productive measures

Im 15 and have been getting parts for racing october, I race a Hb cyclone at Cotswold running hobby wing 13.5, First race I was excited got there early set up before I knew it I was sooo out classed in the pits I had not a patch on anythink they had people squeezing around me, Xray t3 2012 etc etc, every car wasn`t over a year old, I signed in a managed to set my transponder up and I wish I never came along I was so out clased on the track by a mile I looked like a total Idoit, big drivers getting a bit anoyyed with me for getting in the way, Theres no novice or starters class, it just seems to be the top drivers who pays thousands a year set the standereds.

[Jamesk]

What a shame another youngster was put off by the old and wiser (hehe) drivers. I'm sure there are a few good places near you to start off with. As for equipment it's more to do with driving and being consistent than speed. My friend beats me sometimes with his 1994 YZ10 agaist my 201 tamiya. Keep the faith and go again,Speak to people on here to get a few ideas of good start up places near you.

jK