Go Back   oOple.com Forums > General > 12th & 10th On Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 26-04-2010
Timee80 Timee80 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: worksop
Posts: 837
Send a message via Skype™ to Timee80
Default

you have pm losi sam
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 26-04-2010
TrevCoult's Avatar
TrevCoult TrevCoult is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Worksop
Posts: 52
Default

The only reason people say that a T bar car is easier to set up, and a car with cells is easier to drive is because that's what people have been running for years! A LiPo link car is comparatively new and not so many people at club level have much experience of them. I've been running a link car with LiPo since the start of the year and am now faster with that than I was with T bar/cells.

Anyone new to a class needs a bit of help. I suggest coming over to Chesterfield on a Saturday night and talking to a few people, it's worth far more than a few posts on a forum.

Oh, and if you're going to run LiPo DEFINITELY get a link car, as mentioned above. If you get a T bar car and saddle pack LiPo you'll be almost on your own.

There's lots of good advice in the posts above. Take particular notice of SlowOne and Chequered Flag Racing, some good experience there. KRob's not so bad too

Trev
__________________
Schumacher Racing
C.A.R.S. - Chesterfield Auto Racing Society, Sharley Park, Clay Cross
www.carsrcracing.co.uk webmaster
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 26-04-2010
Losi..Sam Losi..Sam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Torbay
Posts: 247
Send a message via MSN to Losi..Sam
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Losi..Sam View Post
Hi mate
personally I would go for a link car because you will find that they are in some ways easter to set up. what sort of budjet do you have, the more info we get the more we can help you
pm me anytime if you want to ask me a question

Sam


Thread above edited
I said the wrong thing :/

Sam
__________________
LRP Shark SC - Tekin RS Novak 10.5 - Yeah Racing - ko 949ics
K.O Esprirt III
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 28-04-2010
Chequered Flag Racing's Avatar
Chequered Flag Racing Chequered Flag Racing is offline
Spends too long on oOple ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In Early Retirment
Posts: 5,987
Default

Quote:
You "could" go for the FTX Phantom which is basically a cheap L4 copy for about £100 as a good starter car, but i'd sooner look for a 2nd hand L4 for about the same money.
DON'T touch the Phantom. Falls apart if it so much as looks like having a crash

You should be able to get a very good L4 pllus spares for a lot less than £100
__________________
o0ple Trader Feedback
NE Venue's New & Old
my space on YouTube
CFR RCTV Channel
Glenn Atterton

BRCA 2005 1/10th Off-Road Veterans Champion
LMP12 National Champion 2003/2004 / F3 class
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 28-04-2010
rocketrob rocketrob is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 404
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevCoult View Post
The only reason people say that a T bar car is easier to set up, and a car with cells is easier to drive is because that's what people have been running for years! A LiPo link car is comparatively new and not so many people at club level have much experience of them. I've been running a link car with LiPo since the start of the year and am now faster with that than I was with T bar/cells.
Trev - isn't it possible that either way you'd be faster this year than last year?
"link" cars have been out for about 20 years now, and until they have been definitively adopted as the industry standard (and t-bar cars never stage a comeback, as surely will happen) I think it's a little early to be making definitive statements either way.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 28-04-2010
Timee80 Timee80 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: worksop
Posts: 837
Send a message via Skype™ to Timee80
Default

I thank everyone who as given advice to me so far, its much appreciated, and for the pm's ive received, but alot of the info im gettng seems to contradict each other with regards to what to buy as a first car and which type of chassis is easier to setup (with or without cells).
It seems the T bar vs link debate is very heated
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 28-04-2010
SlowOne SlowOne is offline
Mad Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,549
Default

It isn't a heated debate. I don't know who hides behind all these handles on this forum, but some of the so-called advice isn't helpful. Like Mad Wolfie i'll tell you my background - 35 years racing RC, most of it 12th, one of the people invited to the 12th Tech-in day on 22nd May, and more experience of the latest 12th technology than most, having raced it at National level all season!

You need a link car, 1S LiPo and a 13.5 or 10.5 motor. A mini-servo (Futaba 9602 or 9650), BL speedo (of which Tekin RS is the most popular in 12th because it is the most suitable) mini receiver and booster (TQ or similar).

If you want to do that cheaper, then substitute the motor for a 19T BR (of which the Corally Black stand-up is the best) and the speedo for a good BR one (of which an MRT is the best.

I can also give you all my set-ups for tyres and bodies.

As for the car, any of them will work. Try to get a CRC GenXL, AE RC12R5.1 or V-Dezign. None will come cheap because they are the cars to have at the moment. Trev's advice is best - get yourself up to Chesterfield and have Trev talk you through it. If I'm there, you can have a go on the sticks. HTH
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 28-04-2010
TrevCoult's Avatar
TrevCoult TrevCoult is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Worksop
Posts: 52
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timee80 View Post
I thank everyone who as given advice to me so far, its much appreciated, and for the pm's ive received, but alot of the info im gettng seems to contradict each other with regards to what to buy as a first car and which type of chassis is easier to setup (with or without cells).
It seems the T bar vs link debate is very heated
The link/T bar debate isn't heated at all, as SlowOne said you need a link car. There's a difference in the past between the UK and USA, where in the USA link cars have been popular for a good few years. They never really took off in the UK until LiPo, so nearly all cars used here were T bar. Because of that we've had to learn setting up of link cars more or less from scratch. It was also not possible to just use setups straight from the USA as we run on different carpet and use different additive. I think in the UK we are generally getting there with link cars now. It is very rare to see a T bar car even in the UK now, at least where I race. (And I'm saying all that when I still have a T bar car to sell!)

By the way, my experience isn't anything like someone like SlowOne. I raced 12th scale from 1980 until 1985, then gave up until the start of 2007! I've (re) learnt a lot in a short space of time and will also be at the Ardent tech day, but mainly as a student as whatever I've learnt there's still plenty more.

After all that said about link cars, if you have cells lying around there's no harm in getting a second hand T bar car to get started at club level, something like an old Associated L4 or HB 12X can be a good introduction, but if you keep racing in 12th you'll soon want to upgrade.

Trev
__________________
Schumacher Racing
C.A.R.S. - Chesterfield Auto Racing Society, Sharley Park, Clay Cross
www.carsrcracing.co.uk webmaster
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 28-04-2010
Mad-Wolfie's Avatar
Mad-Wolfie Mad-Wolfie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Stoke on Trent (UK)
Posts: 308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowOne View Post
It isn't a heated debate. I don't know who hides behind all these handles on this forum, but some of the so-called advice isn't helpful. Like Mad Wolfie i'll tell you my background - 35 years racing RC, most of it 12th, one of the people invited to the 12th Tech-in day on 22nd May, and more experience of the latest 12th technology than most, having raced it at National level all season!

You need a link car, 1S LiPo and a 13.5 or 10.5 motor. A mini-servo (Futaba 9602 or 9650), BL speedo (of which Tekin RS is the most popular in 12th because it is the most suitable) mini receiver and booster (TQ or similar).
well isn't that nice... as i said in my post, i've not been doing 12th for very long (about 6 months) so a bit of advice from newbie to newbie will probably be just as helpful as your 35 years in the sport.

However i'm sorry but i strongly disagree on one point, the best 12th set-up for any newcomer to 12th scale racing in my opinion would be to use a T-bar car, simply as they are a lot easier to drive. I was told this by people who race in the 12th nationals, the Chesterfield summer series & numerous other people that race at my local clubs who i've spoken to. I have driven a link car a couple of times & found it too "twitchy", so i have to agree with the advice i was initially given, advice which i'm now passing on myself.

A person who has done 12th for years has probably learned how to overcome this "twithy" characteristic but a relative newcomer to me won't have the knowhow yet.. in time i know i'll be able to overcome it so it's a case of running before they are able to walk. a T-bar car is a lot easier to learn with & easier to drive, granted "old pro's" will not notice so much the twitcy behaviour of the car, but a newcomer can & this thread is called "12th newbie questions" so as i say i'm answering based from my newly gained experiences.

Granted i know a link car is the way forward & once a driver has a link car dialed in it will be insanely quick compared to any t-bar car. Even so there is a T-bar conversion available for an R5 so it may be an idea to try at least until you get used to running 12th & have a few seasons of driving experience behind you & there must be some good reason why they have released a conversion kit to convert what is essentially a new technology car & reverse engineer it to run with the old technology.

As i also said though, if going LiPo the only option is to go for a link car. I know that sounds like a contradiction, but a T-bar car has been designed & engineered to run on cells so fitting LiPo is probably going to be a bit like putting pram wheels onto a ferrari & the reason a lot of drivers are going for link cars is simply because they can run 1S LiPo's & not upset the car too much.. again not my words, simply advice i'm passing on from some of the top drivers who i've spoken to.

Also saying "run 10.5 & LiPo" to a newbie is probably not the best advice. When i started out running what is a 2nd hand T-bar car, i decided i was going to go mad so decided to start by running this with a 21t brushed motor & 3300 NiMh's which i'd stripped from a couple of old 6-cell packs that had been left in a drawer & stuck with these at least until i got used to the quick handling of the car - even so i was still capable of running mid table at club meetings, i then felt i'd reached the limits of the 21t & switched to a 19t Checkpoint & 4500 cells, i wasn't lapping any quicker or finishing much higher up the table but i was crashing a lot quicker, i've now switched to Brushless (still on 4500 cells) & to be honest it's quite frightening, i think if i'd stuck a brushless & the 4500's into the car on Day one, on Day 2 the car would of probably been on eBay & i would washed my hands with 12th & stuck to racing tourers which kind of defeated the reason why i wanted to go 12th which was to try to improve my touring car driving skills & to be able to do some race series over the winter.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 29-04-2010
SlowOne SlowOne is offline
Mad Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,549
Default

Guys, he wanted advice, not a debate!! An AE RC12R5.1, built as kit, is a link car that is easy to drive. The T-bar car isn't good advice any longer, as you can't buy BRCA-legal cells easily, and after this summer, probably not at all.

I appreciate everyone is trying to help, so a trip to Chesterfield to see it all in the flesh is still your best plan.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 29-04-2010
steelie600 steelie600 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Crewe, Cheshire.
Posts: 456
Default

YOU DONT NEED BRCA LEGAL CELLS FOR CLUB RACING!!! that is bollocks!! its down to the clubs discretion.

Wolfie knows me, he knows my main class is nitro off road of which im pretty good, and he knows my 12th scale.

Basically I bought a second hand S120 full setup for a steal. rebuilt it to kit standard setup, put some new tyres on it and drove it. The kit setup was very easy to drive, the brushed motor complimented the chassis very well wasnt too powerful but was as fast as the brushless on the straights, maybe it lacked a little out of the corners but top end it was fine. Now I dont want to blow my own trumpet but at my first ever 12th meeting i was 2nd overall with a second hand t-bar car!!! the only person I couldnt beat was Jim Spencer!

Now I know this isnt a debate but yet again a noob asking for advise is getting told to buy the latest and greatest and I heartily disagree. YOU DONT NEED the latest kit to be competitive, what ever happened to racing for fun??? You dont need to be challenging for the win to enjoy yourself, but if your car is hard to drive and you wont enjoy yourself, but if your car works well and YOU drive crap ill guarantee youll enjoy it!!!

To the OP if you want and we can arrange a date that doesnt clash with my nitro racing ill meet you at chesterfield and you can drive my 12th for the meeting and Ill spanner for you. Cos even with all the advice on here, you may not even like 12th scales and therefore you could be wasting a lot of money. Try before you buy if you will
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 29-04-2010
Mad-Wolfie's Avatar
Mad-Wolfie Mad-Wolfie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Stoke on Trent (UK)
Posts: 308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelie600 View Post
YOU DONT NEED BRCA LEGAL CELLS FOR CLUB RACING!!! that is bollocks!! its down to the clubs discretion.

Wolfie knows me, he knows my main class is nitro off road of which im pretty good, and he knows my 12th scale.

Basically I bought a second hand S120 full setup for a steal. rebuilt it to kit standard setup, put some new tyres on it and drove it. The kit setup was very easy to drive, the brushed motor complimented the chassis very well wasnt too powerful but was as fast as the brushless on the straights, maybe it lacked a little out of the corners but top end it was fine. Now I dont want to blow my own trumpet but at my first ever 12th meeting i was 2nd overall with a second hand t-bar car!!! the only person I couldnt beat was Jim Spencer!
Thanks Kev, at least you understand where i'm coming from.

Also as for cells, Kev is right, any cells will be OK for club racing, plus i do believe ANY unlisted cell (provided it is pre-stamped or labeled by a manufactuer) & under 3800mah IS classed as BRCA legal - i asked the aforementioned Jim Spencer about this & he confirmed this was the case & companies such as Vapex still sell/make them, so all this talk about Sub C cells being discontinued is utter rot.. Sub C cells are still being manufactured & are widely used in most of the battery operated power tools & the like.

Plus companies like Ansmann, Intellect, GP, Orion, SMC etc are still knocking out 6 cell stick packs which can be easily split to make saddle packs & some are made up of cells still on the BRCA cell list & dare i say it it may be cheaper to buy stick packs & split them rather than buy the cells individually. Granted buying individual cells from the BRCA cell list are getting harder to find, but they are still out there. 2 stick packs will make up 3x 4 cell packs to run in a 12th.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 29-04-2010
Losi..Sam Losi..Sam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Torbay
Posts: 247
Send a message via MSN to Losi..Sam
Default

You would be saving your time just buying lipo. Nihms are alot of effort To maintain. Where as lipos you just charge them once you've finished using them. Then store
them.

Sam
__________________
LRP Shark SC - Tekin RS Novak 10.5 - Yeah Racing - ko 949ics
K.O Esprirt III
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 29-04-2010
Mad-Wolfie's Avatar
Mad-Wolfie Mad-Wolfie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Stoke on Trent (UK)
Posts: 308
Default

One thing i think i must point out though regarding cells, remember some clubs opt to run 8 minute heats for 12th the same as they use for tournaments & nationals, while other clubs may stick with the standard 5 minute heat system, so remember to get cells/LiPo's that can last the 8 minute distance
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 29-04-2010
rocketrob rocketrob is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 404
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad-Wolfie View Post
well isn't that nice... as i said in my post, i've not been doing 12th for very long (about 6 months) so a bit of advice from newbie to newbie will probably be just as helpful as your 35 years in the sport.

However i'm sorry but i strongly disagree on one point, the best 12th set-up for any newcomer to 12th scale racing in my opinion would be to use a T-bar car, simply as they are a lot easier to drive. I was told this by people who race in the 12th nationals, the Chesterfield summer series & numerous other people that race at my local clubs who i've spoken to. I have driven a link car a couple of times & found it too "twitchy", so i have to agree with the advice i was initially given, advice which i'm now passing on myself.

A person who has done 12th for years has probably learned how to overcome this "twithy" characteristic but a relative newcomer to me won't have the knowhow yet.. in time i know i'll be able to overcome it so it's a case of running before they are able to walk. a T-bar car is a lot easier to learn with & easier to drive, granted "old pro's" will not notice so much the twitcy behaviour of the car, but a newcomer can & this thread is called "12th newbie questions" so as i say i'm answering based from my newly gained experiences.

Granted i know a link car is the way forward & once a driver has a link car dialed in it will be insanely quick compared to any t-bar car. Even so there is a T-bar conversion available for an R5 so it may be an idea to try at least until you get used to running 12th & have a few seasons of driving experience behind you & there must be some good reason why they have released a conversion kit to convert what is essentially a new technology car & reverse engineer it to run with the old technology.

As i also said though, if going LiPo the only option is to go for a link car. I know that sounds like a contradiction, but a T-bar car has been designed & engineered to run on cells so fitting LiPo is probably going to be a bit like putting pram wheels onto a ferrari & the reason a lot of drivers are going for link cars is simply because they can run 1S LiPo's & not upset the car too much.. again not my words, simply advice i'm passing on from some of the top drivers who i've spoken to.

Also saying "run 10.5 & LiPo" to a newbie is probably not the best advice. When i started out running what is a 2nd hand T-bar car, i decided i was going to go mad so decided to start by running this with a 21t brushed motor & 3300 NiMh's which i'd stripped from a couple of old 6-cell packs that had been left in a drawer & stuck with these at least until i got used to the quick handling of the car - even so i was still capable of running mid table at club meetings, i then felt i'd reached the limits of the 21t & switched to a 19t Checkpoint & 4500 cells, i wasn't lapping any quicker or finishing much higher up the table but i was crashing a lot quicker, i've now switched to Brushless (still on 4500 cells) & to be honest it's quite frightening, i think if i'd stuck a brushless & the 4500's into the car on Day one, on Day 2 the car would of probably been on eBay & i would washed my hands with 12th & stuck to racing tourers which kind of defeated the reason why i wanted to go 12th which was to try to improve my touring car driving skills & to be able to do some race series over the winter.

well said

As I also suggested earlier, if link cars were "IT" and there was no argument then the industry would have made the change over enmass 20 years ago when the first link car hit the market... (maybe the earlier poster with 35 years of experience was asleep back then, I dunno)
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 29-04-2010
Timee80 Timee80 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: worksop
Posts: 837
Send a message via Skype™ to Timee80
Default

Ok guys. I definately want to run lipo so i know now that i need a link car. I am going to get to chesterfield soon hopefully and have a look round and chat with people. Ive been offered a bmi 12rr setup as swaps for my 4wd buggy i have for sale, hopefully sort out the deal this weekend. Ive bought some wheels off ebay to get me started so with luck will be at a meeting fairly soon. I realise theres alot still to learn
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 29-04-2010
Mad-Wolfie's Avatar
Mad-Wolfie Mad-Wolfie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Stoke on Trent (UK)
Posts: 308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timee80 View Post
Ok guys. I definately want to run lipo so i know now that i need a link car. I am going to get to chesterfield soon hopefully and have a look round and chat with people. Ive been offered a bmi 12rr setup as swaps for my 4wd buggy i have for sale, hopefully sort out the deal this weekend. Ive bought some wheels off ebay to get me started so with luck will be at a meeting fairly soon. I realise theres alot still to learn
No Problems Timee - have a realisitc goal i mind of where you want to be in the future but take small steps to get there, it's certainly working for me. 12th racing is a lot harder than it looks because the cars are so much faster & the handling is lightning fast - it's probably a lot easier to go from 12th into other electric classes but not easy to go the other way, but i must say it is the most enjoyable class to race in once you start getting things dialed in & have taken a few heat wins.. so enjoy it .
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 29-04-2010
Chequered Flag Racing's Avatar
Chequered Flag Racing Chequered Flag Racing is offline
Spends too long on oOple ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In Early Retirment
Posts: 5,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad-Wolfie View Post
but i must say it is the most enjoyable class to race in once you start getting things dialed in & have taken a few heat wins.. so enjoy it .
no arguments from me on that one
__________________
o0ple Trader Feedback
NE Venue's New & Old
my space on YouTube
CFR RCTV Channel
Glenn Atterton

BRCA 2005 1/10th Off-Road Veterans Champion
LMP12 National Champion 2003/2004 / F3 class
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 29-04-2010
steelie600 steelie600 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Crewe, Cheshire.
Posts: 456
Default

Same here, very satisfying when youve been slinging the car round the track watching it buck and weave cos your pushing like mad and then you take a win!!!
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 29-04-2010
Losi..Sam Losi..Sam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Torbay
Posts: 247
Send a message via MSN to Losi..Sam
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad-Wolfie
but i must say it is the most enjoyable class to race in once you start getting things dialed in & have taken a few heat wins.. so enjoy it .
+1
i went from 8th to 12th
not the easyist move over, but i must say how much more i enjoy 12th.
with the setting up and everything im still getting there !
but im sure that everyone will agree when i say that there is always more to learn.
brilliant scale.

sam
__________________
LRP Shark SC - Tekin RS Novak 10.5 - Yeah Racing - ko 949ics
K.O Esprirt III
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
oOple.com