Vintage Series - Proposal for Brushed Motors Only

[peetbee]

It's been proposed to me that we would encourage more vintage runners out if we were all limited to brushed motors.

To make it even more interesting we could even go for everyone running the same motor!
The Ansmann Clash 18T motors are dirt cheap - somewhere around £6ish, I used one in my optima mid briefly last year and in my T3. Ran very well too.
Brushed speedos capable of running these motors are pretty cheap too, even if you bought new, something like the Etronix Probe is only around the £20 mark.

What does everyone think?
Save those transmissions and encourage some more people to dust off their cars or stick to anything goes!
May even break the cars less if you are running slower!

Dave was running brushed in his optima mid last year for the series - using an old LRP brick of a speedo that's normally included in a RTR kit!

I am not proposing to outlaw lipos though and in case anyone thinks I'm biased I don't own any brushed gear.

[Dyna]

This is something we briefly spoke about last year Pete.

I ran a couple of brushed motors last year with 4200 NiMH's, after a couple of meetings the 14D i had in the Top Force the performance dipped and needed a re-build. Just like the old days. And thats a pain in the arse for me, i barely have time to race atm and i certaily dont have time to skim & rebuild motors again....

If you had to buy a cheap brushed set up from scratch its just more expense that you will only use for vintage, but you can buy a Ezrun 8.5 motor & speedo for about 65 quid that you can double up and use in your modern cars and with no worries about having to keep rebuilding it...

But saying that ill do whatever is decided as i want the Top Force to win this year no matter what motor we end up using

[liam]

Will there be different heats for vintage 2+4wd?

I say use brushless cause it saves energy! (50%?) and therefore charging times

[Caine]

I would like to keep it brushless, this series has given me the kick up the arse needed to update and sort out my RC10 and 10T. saying that i have got brushed esc and a couple of motors so whatever will be will be

[peetbee]

Originally Posted by liam

Will there be different heats for vintage 2+4wd?

Wasn't intending to unless we had enough cars to make two heats!

[Welshy40]

Run what you want, as some people do want to take it easy and then theres some like me who prefer sticking a 5.5 in.

[peetbee]

Trouble with going for anything is that if someone is using say a 5.5 then others may be put off as their car may not be capable of running enough power to keep up or they end up with broken transmission.

Whilst we're all doing this for fun, I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to be competitive!

Look at Andy's Thundershot last year, it could barely cope/survive with an 8.5 (I think) and it's staying in retirement as a result.
If we limited the power available then others like that may be tempted out of hibernation!

What I don't want to happen is for this to end up like the trucks series, which ended up with just 2 runners in the last couple of rounds.

Last year I ran a variety of motors in the same car, the Ansmann Clash 18T, Speed Passion 9.5 and an old old 19 turn brushed motor.
The 18T was good but couldn't match speed of the brushless cars.
The 9.5 gave me the speed but my Optima Mid struggled with it hence the change back to brushed. Neither of the brushed motors had any maintenance and the 18T was used in my T3 (and is still running in it as far as I know!)
Each motor did 2 rounds and I didn't do too badly overall did I?

I know Balders and I have looked at 2wds this year as his Lazer & my mid struggled with brushless so much.

Food for thought?

[liam]

Although many people might be more tempted to bring there cars if you limited power just as many people might be put off if you do limit power! I would be less tempted to run my vintage car because i would then have to resolder the 5 wires onto an esc that runs brushed motors, swap over aload of stuff and i cant be bothered cause ive only just put all the brushless gear in! (again!)

You could always have 2 classes in the same race? like at le-mans for example?

The poll results show the direction that needs to be taken. Listen to the customer!

[peetbee]

I am listening, but it's only early days, I want to hear from everyone!

I would have to buy a brushed setup which is not something I have budgeted but as it's been requested I'm trying to play devils advocate.

I'm not at club this week Liam, would you be able to sound out people who haven't been on the forum?

[liam]

yeah of course mate. It is even to a good idea in the interests of being fair to consider lowest punch and advance settings on the esc. I wouldnt mind. Im only interested in actually running a car ive put too many hours into rebulding!

Print off a list of all racers on friday, and get them to tick brushed, brushless or dont mind etc

Not being bias but my RC10 does look as hard as nails!

[blue_pinky]

Originally Posted by peetbee

Look at Andy's Thundershot last year, it could barely cope/survive with an 8.5 (I think) and it's staying in retirement as a result.

LOL...it was a 10.5 actually!

But to be honest, the retirement of the Thundershot is due to many things...the plastics are all soooo soft it broke everytime I drove it...mainly in the steering department...it wasn't really a true 'race car' when it was made...and certainly didn't age well in that department

Setup/tyres...again, it wasn't a true race car, so the options for tuning are sooo limiting that the fun factor soon dried up...it's fun for a few laps/races, but then gets tiresome as it's not a good handling car at all and putting up with that noise as well it just didn't seem worth it!

I shall take up position as the camera man in this series I think...that'll be time better spent for me to be honest

[peetbee]

Blimey 'only' a 10.5!
Well Tamiya believed it to be a racer at the time!

Limiting the available power to everyone may have made it more viable (lower speed crashes to save the plastics) or is it too optimisitc to try and enable cars like that to run as 'competively' as possible?

[Dyna]

Certain cars after a certain age i think can be competitive - Ken Reith ran a RC10 Worlds & a YZ10 at the F3's and did very well with them, and they certainly didnt look the 18 + year old cars they were. A few more like early Cats, Lazer ZXR's, Losi XX's or B2's are also still competitve at club & regional level, let alone a Vintage Series

If the parts are available they can be good cars to run.... thats the only problem for regular use - parts availibility. If your worried about the longevity of the cars then fair enough stipulate a mid-wind brushed motor, but boy will it be slow compared to our normal buggies !

And i agree if there arent enough regular drivers in the vintage series then cut the series short ? I would think the first couple of races would be quite popular, then we'll see if it stays popular ofter that...

Whichever way it goes for the motors, it would be good if the desicions made soonish so we can all get the electronics sorted out in time

[Belsten]

doesnt matter what motor you use, i proved that last year with whatever motor and speedo thing was in my mid beat james with his 5.5 in
Pete you dont need to buy a brushed set up, you can have yours back out of my mid, im going brushless with a 10.5

[DaveG28]

Originally Posted by Belsten

doesnt matter what motor you use, i proved that last year with whatever motor and speedo thing was in my mid beat james with his 5.5 in

Yeah but that's cos your the b******s Louis!

[Balders]

I quite like the idea of a standard motor rule.. 18t at club would be plenty fast enough... plus with a tame motor we might see some more interesting cars being dusted off..

Maybe we could tempt matt out the tamiya closet with one of his Egress'?!

I'd prefer to run lipo though just because its easier..

Plus £6 for a motor and and 2-3 quid booking in that's still only the same cost as a days racing at cobra?

[Col]

Just butting in a little...

A couple of years ago we ran the "vintage masters" series at York. We ran to rules similar to these mentioned.
Any batteries you like (most ran lipo, but a couple went for period!)
Any speedo (again, some opted for period esc's)
1 specific motor - we went for "saturn 20t sealed can" brushed motors.
These were around £20 at the time and as they were sealed can required no maintenence.
The series has not run again, but was a great success at the time because it was felt that some cars simply couldn't take the power.

[Welshy40]

Originally Posted by Belsten

doesnt matter what motor you use, i proved that last year with whatever motor and speedo thing was in my mid beat james with his 5.5 in
Pete you dont need to buy a brushed set up, you can have yours back out of my mid, im going brushless with a 10.5

Only because you cut the track!!! :-)

maybe setting the motor limit in brushless would be the way forward. Losi do cheap motors so i would buy a 10.5 if thats the decision.

[Balders]

If we did opt to go for brushed motors then I have a couple of brushed speedo's kicking about that I'll happily lend to anyone that wants one?

[peetbee]

Originally Posted by Col

The series has not run again, but was a great success at the time because it was felt that some cars simply couldn't take the power.

Cheers Col, interesting to hear another perspective on it.