too much front end grip

[Moose]

I am using the rear motor car, set up like Dustin Evans, driving on clay with quite a few dust, 4rips and holeshots
The car has quite lots of steering and is super hard to drive you have to be very patiant not to spin out.
Feels like there is too much front end grip.
I tried a few changes that made it better but not perfect. (inner shock position front, outer rear, 10 degree front caster)

Do you limit the steering end points and use much expo ?

I am very confused because I didnt have problems with other cars on this track and tires

[russmini]

Where is it too much?

Corner Entry, Mid Corner, Corner Exit ?

All require a slightly different approach...

[Moose]

I would say everywhere, but the worst seems to be the corner exit (and everything on power is very very hard to drive). The corner at the end of the straight off power is not a big problem.

[Robby]

I am using the rear motor car, set up like Dustin Evans, driving on clay with quite a few dust, 4rips and holeshots
The car has quite lots of steering and is super hard to drive you have to be very patiant not to spin out.
Feels like there is too much front end grip.
I tried a few changes that made it better but not perfect. (inner shock position front, outer rear, 10 degree front caster)

Do you limit the steering end points and use much expo ?

I am very confused because I didnt have problems with other cars on this track and tires

Softer rear springs, rear tires that offer more grip.

Yes, limit steering and use front expo (I set my own typically so I can only do a complete u-turn in one lane of the track's width).

[Buggy Driver]

Maybe you could try Darren´s front mod as seen on page two and three here:

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90035&page=2

It´s made for mid motor but obviously to have less steering coming out of a turn so maybe could work for you, too. The little trimming and "stretched" standard length turnbuckles just to test it should give you an impression if it´s any good without having to buy longer ones for racing.
Besides that and setup/ tyres I would doublecheck the diff just to make sure it isn´t responsible for the undesired cornering.

[steveproracing]

sounds like the rear is lacking grip as apose to front end having too much


try more rear toe in
shorten wheelbase
reduce antisquat
move cell to fully rear

try rear shock on inner on wbone
front shock outer on wbone

white rr springs
silver or green front springs


this should really help to numb the car hopefully this will give u a starting point where you could start to dial some steering back in

hth

[Jaune]

Im using the RCRD -5 Chassis with the truck 30deg front block and zero caster block. The more kickup transfer more weight in the back on power and seems to help my car on corner exit. I also have weight on top and in the front of the tranny. My car finally has the same level of traction as my teamc Evo. I had good success with the yellow rear spring but I'll try the white next race day.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-UXQO31dV2wM/T5deeNY0lKI/AAAAAAAABOY/VN0z7_MkNFY/s912/DSC06946.JPG

[Jaune]

I also use the LRC 4deg rear toe block and 1mm raised tranny.

[Moose]

thx everyone!

@Robby: ok I will give it a try with your end point adjustment and expo, this is on my list on the first place now. I usually dont use much expo and never used end point adjustment and it ony came in my mind on the way home. thx !

@Buggy Driver: You are right I should look for some parts to do that mod, I think that will be one of the later things to try. thx

@steveproracing:"try rear shock on inner on wbone, front shock outer on wbone, move cell to fully rear" I did this and made the car a bit higher to get a better reaction when beginning to spin out, it helped a bit but not as much as I hoped."shorten wheelbase" I couldnt try this because I switched the car so this will be the next thing, and I will try the more rear toe in, and reduce antisquat, I will have a look if I can get some springs here, thx !

@Jaune: I had the 25 deg block and 5 caster and switched to 10 caster, it helped but hard to feel the difference, I should ad some weight, I have no weight in it now, only a big normal battery pushed to the rear. I tried a evo too this weekend and my b4 too this weekend- evo is very easy to drive. I also raised the tranny by 1 mm but used the 3 deg rear toe block.

I will try the weight next time and try a limited steering, I switched back to middle shock positions to start than, and I will definately try a shorter wheelbase than. Hope it helps, I was pretty surprised how bad the 22 out of the box compared to a old B4 out of the box.

btw: I used only one deg anti squad, the low grip set ups on tlr racing all use more, like 2.5 deg. Should I go to zero?

[Buggy Driver]

You wouldn´t need any parts to try the front mod. By stretched I meant the normal turnbuckles just normally lengthened, should do it for a few corners to see how it works out.

Less anti-squat should give you less drive which could help as it kind of tames the rear under acceleration.

Try the tips mentioned by all, but maybe have a look at the diff, as the 22´s one can be tricky and sometimes feel fine when it´s actually not (= car drives, but turns rather unevenly).

Maybe you could try someone else´s (well-cornering) 22 to see how it´s set up compared to yours.

[Robby]

@Robby: ok I will give it a try with your end point adjustment and expo, this is on my list on the first place now. I usually dont use much expo and never used end point adjustment and it ony came in my mind on the way home. thx

Also try - Softer rear springs, and Rear tires that offer more grip.

One thing I did on my 22T was to add 15gr of weight behind the shock tower.

[Jaune]

@Jaune: I had the 25 deg block and 5 caster and switched to 10 caster, it helped but hard to feel the difference

Its not really the caster that helped me but the 30 deg block. Read this. http://losiracing.blogspot.com/2011/12/adjusting-kick-on-tlr-22-22t.html

Hope this helped

[Matt Butcher]

whats you diff like? a bad diff can give you a million handling problems! :)

[jaydits]

our setups were realy helped when we moved the front camberlink to the number 2 position and lower the rings under the inside ballstud
it gives you more turn in and less turn out

[Moose]

thanks for all your help. I was testing an a track with a bit more grip last weekend and the car was much better.

I cut the bladders in the shocks and didn't tightend the bottom cap that much and the shocks were much smoother and it helped the car a lot. I read cutting bladders would make the car better on jumps but it made a huge difference for me, maybe I am too stupid to build them proper with the bladders. I had rebound with the bladders, now I built them with zero rebound that helped too to make the car more stable I guess.

I dont know if its right but I changed antisquad from 1 deg to 2 deg and the car was much better for me both on rear and front. (strange but true)

The weight behind the esc helped a lot too, do you run the Losi weights? They are expensive but it seems to be better than gluing them. I will try weight behind the battery this weekend and I will go back to the 5 degree caster block. Really happy at the moment but I should try different tracks with less grip. But I tried a RB5 to compare and I like how the 22 is in rough sections and how it jumbs.

@Matt Butcher: the diff is still great :)

btw: I started with end point adjustment 80 % but got back to 100% very soon as the car is much better now, zero expo.

[fastinfastout]

Im using the RCRD -5 Chassis with the truck 30deg front block and zero caster block. The more kickup transfer more weight in the back on power and seems to help my car on corner exit. I also have weight on top and in the front of the tranny. My car finally has the same level of traction as my teamc Evo. I had good success with the yellow rear spring but I'll try the white next race day.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-UXQO31dV2wM/T5deeNY0lKI/AAAAAAAABOY/VN0z7_MkNFY/s912/DSC06946.JPG
Hi, just by putting the -5 chassis without any other changes, how did you find the steering? more, less ? less stable, more?

I would assume a shorter chassis will just exaggerate the cars steering

[Jaune]

Hi, just by putting the -5 chassis without any other changes, how did you find the steering? more, less ? less stable, more?

I would assume a shorter chassis will just exaggerate the cars steering

It seems to add rear traction so sacrifice some on power steering but not much. Ive been working on a low traction setup so I havent played much with the std chassis lately to compare. We will start to race weekly again after this week so I'll be able to have some good data soon.

[Jaune]

Here is my low traction setup.
JG-22RM-LowBite (http://pages.videotron.ca/jaunerc/TLR0022_RM-JG.pdf)

Yesterday I've ran small bore shock with AE #2 Piston and same oil (27.5/25) but the track is smoother than I though and will be back on big bore next race. I also used Pro-line step pin tire as there is no nice grove on the track yet. The car felt very good, It was pushing as traction was getting higher But I prefer fighting for steering than for rear traction.

[metalmickey0]

Have no-one thought of just changing the front tyres:o.
I had to much steering with stagger ribs on so switched to standard ribs and it was spot on. Just by changing the fronts it helped loads.
Tyres is Always the first thing i try, then springs second

[fastinfastout]

It seems to add rear traction so sacrifice some on power steering but not much. Ive been working on a low traction setup so I havent played much with the std chassis lately to compare. We will start to race weekly again after this week so I'll be able to have some good data soon.
surprised it adds rear traction by shortening the chassis, not that I doubt you at all:wub

it's usually a longer chassis that puts more weight on the rear, but glad to see it's working well for you.

[jkirkwood]

You might consider the new 4mm trailing axles. They make the car a little less responsive and seem to release the front end well on power.