new 4wd tlr?

[Shaun_TLR]

anyone know if there'd going to be a new 4wd losi anytime soon? I currently run a 22 and would like to move to a 4wd car as well at some point but just seems there's a gap in the brand??

[Robby]

How many new cars do you expect them to come out with a year? :lol:

[mes]

According to some rumours, the new 4WD has been in development for a while. Maybe TLR will release the kit in time for the worlds next year. On the other hand, the venerable XX4 was still good enough for a third place at the Euros this year... We'll have to wait and see!

[Shaun_TLR]

I just meant is there one in the pipeline........maybe not this year????

[MOGGIE XL]

There doesn't seem to be much optimism about a new 4wd on the LOSI.COM forum.

[Shaun_TLR]

There doesn't seem to be much optimism about a new 4wd on the LOSI.COM forum.


No? hhmmmm. I think that seems strange given hat most other manufacturers make a 2wd and 4wd derivative. We can but hope I guess !

[till]

not most, look at yokomo they had only a 4 wd for a very long time ^^

I don´t think there will be a 4 wd this year =(

[Robby]

There doesn't seem to be much optimism about a new 4wd on the LOSI.COM forum.

They did the same thing (total denial) when people asked about a 22 SCT variant, so I wouldn't believe anything the factory guys had to say - but at the same time considering the weak sales of 4wd compared to 2wd it doesn't make a whole lot of sense economically to make the investment.

[mes]

Maybe there's something in the pipeline in time for the worlds in California next year...

[MHeadling]

Very good effort here, XX-24 on rctech:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-off-road/95468-xx-4-forum-231.html

[slow coach]

not most, look at yokomo they had only a 4 wd for a very long time ^^

I don´t think there will be a 4 wd this year =(

TBF Yokomo always had a tie in with Associated so never really needed to look at a 2WD car, what is surprising maybe is how long it took them to release one after Associated released the B44 and essentially took the 4WD drivers away from Yokomo.

How many new cars do you expect them to come out with a year? :lol:

The right one :D 4WD has gained popularity throughout europe and the UK, the deciding factor would be if the US market has picked up or not as thats the big one really for all the manufacturers, but I do think Losi is missing a trick and probably a lot of sales by not having both platforms.

[Robby]

The right one :D 4WD has gained popularity throughout europe and the UK, the deciding factor would be if the US market has picked up or not as thats the big one really for all the manufacturers, but I do think Losi is missing a trick and probably a lot of sales by not having both platforms.

I hear you, but at the same time it still doesn't make economic sense. They probably sell 10 times the cars in the U.S. as they do in the UK, and if 4wd buggy only sells 1/10th as many cars as 2wd it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to invest in the R&D and production costs just based on UK sales alone. The numbers just aren't there.

But like I said, They did the same thing (total denial) when people asked about a 22 SCT variant, so I wouldn't believe anything the factory guys had to say - but at the same time considering the weak sales of 4wd compared to 2wd it doesn't make a whole lot of sense economically to make the investment.

[JohnM]

I hear you, but at the same time it still doesn't make economic sense. They probably sell 10 times the cars in the U.S. as they do in the UK, and if 4wd buggy only sells 1/10th as many cars as 2wd it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to invest in the R&D and production costs just based on UK sales alone. The numbers just aren't there.

But like I said, They did the same thing (total denial) when people asked about a 22 SCT variant, so I wouldn't believe anything the factory guys had to say - but at the same time considering the weak sales of 4wd compared to 2wd it doesn't make a whole lot of sense economically to make the investment.

If a small company like XFactory thinks it's worth it & can afford to make a new 4wd then Losi can;)

[adey]

If a small company like XFactory thinks it's worth it & can afford to make a new 4wd then Losi can;)

That's a good point and losi would surely do a rtr version of a 4wd if they released one so it could serve for both ends of the spectrum. I would of thought that there would be a good market for it worldwide.

[Robby]

If a small company like XFactory thinks it's worth it & can afford to make a new 4wd then Losi can;)

No offense to them, but if they actually made all their own pieces and parts instead of relying on those produced by other manufacturers then you might have a viable point. ;) Otherwise, if TLR tried to exist on x-f's puny sales numbers they'd be out of business.

[benl]

No offense to them, but if they actually made all their own pieces and parts instead of relying on those produced by other manufacturers then you might have a point. ;)

I may be wrong but I think the new X7 4WD is being supplied as a complete car rather than a conversion.

[Darren Boyle]

To put to bed the incorrect rumours from post #15 nice and early before they spiral out of control.....

The X7 car will be supplied as a complete kit.

It will be 90% all X-Factory, the diffs and shocks are all that at this point that wont be... As per the X6 all molded parts will be in house, or flat carbon parts will too, only the specialist parts will be outsourced.

Yes parts are made by "industry leaders" for the X7 (and indeed all X-Factory cars), by the likes of JConcepts (bodys and wings), Lunsford (hinge pins, turnbuckles and ballends) and MIP (CVD's, axles, outdrives and top shafts) but this is no different to "ANY" other brand. MIP CVD's featured in cars for years (and with the shocking quality of some of todays efforts I wish they still did), as did Lunsford turnbuckles feature in mnay kits including Losi and Yokomo to name just two and even the latest B44.1 has a JConcepts body in the kit...

As for puny sales, not sure where you have this info from, but in 2008-2010 the X6 dominated the UK tracks in terms of numbers (and results too in many ways), it is only more recently as newer models have come along that numbers have dwindled as the market share gets spread across more and more newer brands, however in the period 08-10 X-Factory sold thousands of X6 kits and as new models like the SCX60CF come out now they continue to do so, the X7 will be no different. Yes, I am more then happy to admit they dont shift 25,000+ RTR kits per annum like some of the other large RC car brands, but then X-Factory have "never" said they wanted to be in the entry level or RTR sector of the market, they have always been and probably always will be a "specialised competition race brand" and with that niche comes smaller sales, but I would not call them puny.....

There is life in the 4wd market and X-Factory have seen that, which is why the X7 project has been ongoing for so long and persevered with and I guess the same reason why the likes of JQ, Xray and others are making new cars too. I am sure TLR are workiong on somthing and I will be shocked if there is not a new TLR 4wd on the grid at the 2013 worlds of some sort.....

[Frecklychimp]

There are no myths or rumours...

The factory drivers are all still running XX4 and XXX4 models,

we will know of any TLR 4WD around 2 months before any release!

In theory TLR now have a full range of up to date r/c models minus a 1/10th 4WD buggy and a touring car, so fingers crossed that is what they are now concentrating on.

[Moose]

No rumours???

There are enough statements by factory drivers that they cant comment on the 4WD etc. Looks 100% sure that they are making one, but it was 100% sure that Yoko did a 2WD aswell and it took years to finish it and to put it in production.
Looking at all Losi stuff and how different every singel car is I cant wait to see the 4WD. The XXX4, JRX S, 8ight and 22 all very special cars so I hope the 4WD will be no different

[GRIFF55]

Hmmm, I could do with a pair of those sexy blue outdrives:drool:

[RDG 40]

New xray, new schumacher, updated b44.2, v3 rango

Cum on plz release one soon losi

[adey]

Anyone know if TLR are working in a 4wd car ?

[OneKiwi]

Wait untill after the big toy fair in January in Germany

[bomber]

Knowing TLR his car will appear from nowhere, ;)

[Shaun_TLR]

was there any hint at all about the 22 being released? It was kinda before I was seriously into the sport so I don't know

[canon67]

Well I think it myth be not for now two company have come out whit new machines so marketing wise it not a good timing but I sure would like to see one dough.

Den.

[Bastos]

I've heard from a commercial "Horizon hobby" that , at the Nuremberg Saloon in Deutschland, Losi will present lots of products...perhaps including a new 4WD across TLR...The worldchampionship is closed.

Wait and see

[Shaun_TLR]

I've heard from a commercial "Horizon hobby" that , at the Nuremberg Saloon in Deutschland, Losi will present lots of products...perhaps including a new 4WD across TLR...The worldchampionship is closed.

Wait and see

Is that show in January?

[Bastos]

Is that show in January?

Yes beginning 2013...30th of January to the 4th of February.
Losi has to present more than 10 products most of them will be for "hobby".

[Superstar]

If you want a Losi 4wd get yourself a XX4. All the TLR team run them and Bloomfield got 3rd at the euros this year with his. I heard he didn't even bother with new tyres just one set for the whole day but I don't know how true that is?

Anyway from a personal prospective this year at NE regionals my best result in 4wd was 9th in the B from roughly 50/60 entries each round with my B44.1. Then at the last round I ran my XX4 and qualified 5th. Every time I have raced it loads of ppl chat about how good it looks on the track and asking me questions.

There's been 4wd rumours for years but nothing comes of it. So it you want to stick to Losi why not run arguable the best 4wd ever made and get a XX4. The parts problem is a huge myth you can get 99% of the parts new still. There's various shops stock parts plus sites such as Losi parts house. I made the plunge this year and I'm am loving it!

[M.Andrews]

Is the XX4 better than the XXX4?.

[JohnM]

Is the XX4 better than the XXX4?.

Yes, lots:thumbsup:

The XXX4 was really a touring car made to look like a buggy, bumps weren't it's favorite things, but would still be bloody fast on a smooth track.

[PaulJCentro]

XXX4 Needed quite a few mods, mainly steering to get it to be quick.

Rutted out tracks were definitely its enemy!

As for TLR releasing a 4WD buggy. I for one, and this has been discussed quite a lot in depth in other forums, think that it will NOT happen. For many reasons of course, but the biggest one being money.

There is not much of a large market in the US for 4WD anymore, yes you will have people saying, "that is bullshit" "Where I race its huge" but in reality, it is not. It will come back around I am sure, but right now, it is not feasible. I am actually surprised XRAY dropped into it. Horizon Hobby are a Hobby company, not a racing company, and they want to see TLR make money, they can do that with SC's and 2WD. Why produce a massively expensive new car when they don't need to.

The Horizon Hobby bean counters are NOT racers, passionate racers. They are figures people with no "nostalgia" about the good'ol days of Team Losi. They want to see money no matter how it is made. Gil Jr no longer is involved, old school racers no longer call the shots in Team Losi.

Now why don't they just rerelease the XX4WE car and be done with it as it was an awesome car you ask?? Well, there is a story behind that too. And it comes down to money once again. The XX4 was a heavily plastic/composite moulded masterpiece, and the age has unfortunately worked against it. The moulds used to create this car, are old, worn out, and in some instances, not even available. To remake these beautiful moulds is another huge exercise in futility as it costs money.

Maybe this will clear some q's up, maybe it will create more questions than answers, but the bottom line is TLR will not release a 4WD until the current economic climate changes, the industry is not flooded with new 4WD cars and the class, as a whole, regains popularity.

[PaulJCentro]

oh and Shaun_TLR, it's a good question mate, a valid one and that is what a forum is for, good discussion about things that interest us :) So cheers and thanks for keeping this discussion up and running!

[Shaun_TLR]

oh and Shaun_TLR, it's a good question mate, a valid one and that is what a forum is for, good discussion about things that interest us :) So cheers and thanks for keeping this discussion up and running!

Cheers. I appreciate that speculation annoys some people, but Im reasonably new to the forum so I've not witnessed any posts like this prior. I only asked the question as Im new and not in the know Re up and coming models. I currently run a 22, 22T and an sx3........so a tlr branded 4wd would fill the void nicely. :)

[Superstar]

So do you not fancy a XX4 then Shaun? :)

[Shaun_TLR]

So do you not fancy a XX4 then Shaun? :)

If Im honest, im not really sure as I dont know much about it. I've recently bought an sx3 (prior to k1 release) that was cheap at the time - just wanted to get into 4wd. Are there any issues with parts etc etc?

[Superstar]

If Im honest, im not really sure as I dont know much about it. I've recently bought an sx3 (prior to k1 release) that was cheap at the time - just wanted to get into 4wd. Are there any issues with parts etc etc?

Parts are quite easy to get hold of and you can get most of the parts new. I mentioned it earlier on in time thread above.

Set up wise when I got my latest one I reAd all the posts in the locked threads on this Losi section. I just read through it. Once you get a good base set u you don't have to change it around much but I read set ups from Tom C and Danny M as they were TLR drivers when the posts were made.

If you want to know anymore feel free to dro me a PM :)

Ps I posted pics of my XX4 the other day in the 1/10 section in the show me your 1/10 thread

[Shaun_TLR]

Hmmmm food for thought. Ill have a look round the post thanks :)

[RDG 40]

Ive just finished replaceing the ballcups on my XX4 that completes my restoration as i had some left over from another build, i managed to purchase my old car last year pure coincidence it was on ebay and i saw it after 10-15 years lol

I did use it last year and it was much nicer to drive than my B44.1 its just i wanted to shelf it as it had memories attached.

If you can get one as said parts are available and to drive its mint, im hunting now for a sedcond one so I can have it as a spare car.

[Superstar]

Ive just finished replaceing the ballcups on my XX4 that completes my restoration as i had some left over from another build, i managed to purchase my old car last year pure coincidence it was on ebay and i saw it after 10-15 years lol

I did use it last year and it was much nicer to drive than my B44.1 its just i wanted to shelf it as it had memories attached.

If you can get one as said parts are available and to drive its mint, im hunting now for a sedcond one so I can have it as a spare car.

That's really random! How did you know it was your old one? Yes I use mine now full time and will now never sell it. Your looks good! There's always good ones on here or eBay, saw one the other day and it was very clean with all the right bits on it.

I was going to start a show me your xx4 thread on here but didnt want to look like an idiot. You should start one :p

[Moose]

PAULJCENTRO: As for TLR releasing a 4WD buggy. I for one, and this has been discussed quite a lot in depth in other forums, think that it will NOT happen. For many reasons of course, but the biggest one being money.

It's already confirmed that a new 4WD buggy is in the development. But even the team doesn't know when it will be finished and when they will drive it. It took few years for the 22 between development start and release ... it might take some time for the 4wd too.

[RDG 40]

When was this confirmed?? B great if true

[PaulJCentro]

It's already confirmed that a new 4WD buggy is in the development. But even the team doesn't know when it will be finished and when they will drive it. It took few years for the 22 between development start and release ... it might take some time for the 4wd too.

Really? Where was this confirmed? Would definitley be excellent news if it has been, but sadly, after Dyno has left, I would suggest those plans are either severley delayed or shelved for now.

He was THE driving force behind reviving the XX4 within the team and development of it for future applications.

But as usual with Losi, we will see hey!

[racingdwarf]

I have no idea weather TLR are working on a 4wd or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if one did suddenly appear, they have done the 22truck, and the 22 sct, the 8ight is due an updated version at any minute. I think a 4wd sct from TLR is more likely 1st as it's a big market and I think it will be baised on the losi SCTE but better shocks and in kit form etc. Then I can't imagine their eye has not glanced at the 4wd market and they have started to go hmmmmm.

This said I would also never be surprised to see new 22 also, with a few little tweeks here and their, just to freshen up there 2wd sales

so tbh I wouldn't poo poo the idea of a 4wd:D

[Moose]

I asked one of their team drivers and because I didnt expect that clear answer too I asked again if it is 100% sure.
They are currently testing new 22 parts but no comments on what else they were testing. Dustin was running new caster blocks this weekend with 3 positions for the link thats all I could see.
edit: 4WD was the TEN SCTE wiith normal tlr shocks

[RDG 40]

Keep askin buddy

New 22 and 4wd drive for me then il hold back on any other purchases thats for sure

[Shaun_TLR]

The student loan would prob stretch to a tlr 4wd me thinks :)

[Moose]

nobody knows when it will be there so dont get too excited it might aswell take one more year. But I want to see it as soon as possible too :P

[Holeshot]

Losi still list the XXX4 G+ on their site but not many places actually have them listed (Amain, Losi Parts House etc. etc.). Associated finally bought out a 4wd buggy after Jconcepts did their BJ4 but and the B44 has been revised 3 times now and not one change to the XXX4. Would be nice even if they just revised the XX4 WCE abit and bring it back out.

[Ron Burgundy]

Not gonna happen in the near future...

The main driver behind the XX4 rebirth project no longer works for TLR.

The XXX4 is making A Finals comfortably.

Why bother when the class is slowing and not a main seller? This question keeps going round and round. Not before or after the worlds or in the forseeable future.

[Holeshot]

4wd Buggy class is bigger than what it has ever been. Back when the XXX4 came out which must of been around 2001/2 there was stuff all manufactors that sold them. Now there is Associated, Tamiya, Castor, Durango, Kyosho, Schumacher, Yokomo and even Xray. The XXX4 isn't selling as everyone knows how it performs and who long it has been out and how it performs, maybe Losi are trying to break the AE's record with how long they had the RC10GT out for. The XX4 coming back is just wishful thinking. Was one of my favorite kits to ever come out.

[suparajicon]

Losi still list the XXX4 G+ on their site but not many places actually have them listed (Amain, Losi Parts House etc. etc.). Associated finally bought out a 4wd buggy after Jconcepts did their BJ4 but and the B44 has been revised 3 times now and not one change to the XXX4. Would be nice even if they just revised the XX4 WCE abit and bring it back out.
+1 yeah, again the XX4!

[Origineelreclamebord]

The XXX4 is making A Finals comfortably.

Why bother when the class is slowing and not a main seller? This question keeps going round and round. Not before or after the worlds or in the forseeable future.

The XXX4 can indeed work very well but I'm told it can struggle on a bumpy track because it lacks droop? :eh?:

And why bother? Well, I think the statement of 4WD that is 'slowing' is mere illusion with such a quick rise of the 2WD class. Fact is though, Xray entered the class recently, a couple of brands updated their cars, Team Xtreme's effort for their Vega 4 looks promising on the pictures (ok, it's not a Pred but it's nice and refreshing in it's own way), JQ is working on a 4WD buggy and quite a lot of brands recently updated their 4WDs.

It's pace can be extremely good in the right hands, but I'm not sure it would fair as well compared to an up to date 4WD in the hands of a club driver (I haven't tried it, so this is what I'd expect). Also, wasn't the XXX4 discontinued?

[Ron Burgundy]

All valid points...... :)

Apart from the one about Vega....

Yes the XXX4 has been discontinued but still definitely able to get parts much easier than the XX4. Its one of those things really, and if you look at racing numbers and entries to large events, but also club racers, due to the fact the most club racers see 4WD as a huge expense, they go to Shourt Course trucks and 2WD in general. It is slowing, it is much quieter on club level, Horizon and Losi make no money from hardcore racers.... The money is made from bashers and club racers, they dictate where the company places all its eggs.

If you look into this, especially the US and Asia where the only money is made by these companies, you will notice this trend away from 4WD.

[Origineelreclamebord]

Apart from the Vega... :lol:

If that's the case, then maybe there would be an opportunity to re-invent 4WD. Cheaper, less parts and better performance :) Might be a tough challenge but those ones yield the best rewards.

Even if they release a 'normal' take at the 4WD, it's still a profitable product and 'completing' the 10th scale lineup has it's own advantages. Brand representation in all classes (which makes the brand better known to areas and clubs that do drive 4WD more). And like good parts support, TLR owners may also consider the TLR 4WD over other cars being a TLR (if you don't offer that, you're assured that that doesn't happen) :p

I understand you have to consider profitability, but only selling the big ticket car(s) in the long run isn't going to help the profitability of your company (people lose interest in that small lineup you have with a lack of diversity), and it could ruin your income by the time that the popularity of classes starts to switch again.

All that said, I don't see TLR coming up with a 4WD very soon... I would love to see them do it though!

[Shaun_TLR]

I just think its crazy. They make the SCT and stadium truck, both of which are based off the 22 platform (the SCT even has a 4wd derrivative). I might be being naive here, but surely they must be able to port an element of theSCT 4wd technology across to a 4wd buggy?

Its just frustrating for those of us that are brand loyal, but I'm currently using an SX3 due to their gap in model range...........

[Richard Lowe]

...(the SCT even has a 4wd derrivative). I might be being naive here, but surely they must be able to port an element of theSCT 4wd technology across to a 4wd buggy?...

I wouldn't think so unless you you wanted a bit of a tank of a 1:10th 4wd, the TEN-SCTE is based on the 8ight from what I can tell.

[Shaun_TLR]

I wouldn't think so unless you you wanted a bit of a tank of a 1:10th 4wd, the TEN-SCTE is based on the 8ight from what I can tell.


oh?? I thought the 4wd losi sct was 1/10 not 1/8 ? Modelsport list it as 1/10 ? bizzare

[Ron Burgundy]

Richard is saying that it is BASED (only based on design, not scale) on an 8ight, but it is 10th scale. If you have a look at it on the losi site.

At the end of the day, the question keeps coming up. Losi are in the business of making money for Horizon full stop. If they don't see a class as viable, then why pour money into a hole. Which at the moment, is what 4WD buggy racing is. Not in the UK obviously, but definitely in the US, Asia and Scandinavia (definitely Sweden where I am) 4WD is dead. One look at entries can tell you this, as I said above.

:thumbsup:

[johnboy]

oh?? I thought the 4wd losi sct was 1/10 not 1/8 ? Modelsport list it as 1/10 ? bizzare

it is 10th the chassis is a scaled down version of the 8 and looks to be very good

[Origineelreclamebord]

I wouldn't think so unless you you wanted a bit of a tank of a 1:10th 4wd, the TEN-SCTE is based on the 8ight from what I can tell.

Yes, a lighter car breaks less easily (2WD for example), but given a 4WD's ability to accelerate to warp speed on a 5m straight and the unability of human reflexes to keep it from hitting hard obstacles at such speeds... a bit of extra weight will reduce the inevitable evil of barriers :thumbsup:

Anyway, to be a bit more serious... many 4WDs break down (particularly indoors). 4WD suspension is constructed much like 2WD - and that unsurprisingly doesn't hold up anymore these days. And what's the problem with adding weight? I recall many drivers do that all the time, and that doesn't even help the strength of the car :lol: