Chip Chip Chip

[Lee]

Has anyone had any of their diesels chipped, some companies are claiming they will take the bhp from 140 to 175 and an increase in torque and fuel economy etc.

Is this really possible without any side effects?

[ben]

Yeh its possible. I got my mini chipped. It measured about 7hp on the rolling road. Chipped it and we managed to get 7.5 hp out of it. Top speed of 27 mph :lol:

[Lee]

I know its possible ben, all i want to know is will the engine life be shortened:lol:

[ben]

ohhh i have no idea hahahahaha.

[ben]

lol ask google

[Danny McGee]

lol ask google

I know a couple of folks who hav had this done. It increases there efficiency too apparently.

[mark christopher]

lee
most diesel engine are over engineered and undertuned

we have a few chipped and my mate does em, no problems, tho id recomend the ecu remaps over the plug and go if your out of waranty
efficiency can also go up as the enhine is "not restricted" so you dot gun it as much

[Lee]

Thats what i was thinking mark, the ones which are plug and play seem a bit dodgy.

[Kopite]

i thought this thread was gonna be about choc chip cookies/muffins when i first saw it :thumbdown:

you've let me down Lee

[Lee]

Sorry Stan, i think you will be disappointed at the next thread titled "Beaver" as well :lol:

[Kopite]

:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:

[Kopite]

to be honest, the amount of times i notice threads on here about snatch, and get overexcited :mad:

[Nick Goodall]

Have a look at the Rapid Tuning devices - i have a trade account with Collins Performance / Mongoose Exhausts so can get them cheap if you want this sort of thing?

http://www.mongooseexhausts.com/mongoose/rapid-diesel.htm

Have a read as there's some good info there anyway, i'd recommend it for a diesel - the VAG lumps are insane, the standard 1.9 TDi can go from 110/130/150 up to 180 without any problems.

Only thing i'd say though, is if your Clutch is anything like worn then this can put a lot more pressure on it as the torque goes through the roof - that's where the biggest gain is compared to BHP.

[Chrislong]

The plug and play units trick the ECU to think that it is always running cold, and it will up the fueling. Plenty of black smoke. They do up the BHP - but not in a good way.

Having a remap causes no premature wear or issues if done properly. The VAG engines such as the GTI TDI 150 golf is restricted as if unrestricted it would make the flagship petrol GTI look silly. :lol:

What have you bought dude?

[Southwell]

Yeah the 130bhp vag engines will see about 180 on a remap and still returned high mpg.

Are the 110/130/150 engines all the same with diff mappings at the factory?

[chrispattinson]

hmmm, so what can I get out of 2.0 TDI A3? Its about 150 standard I think.

[Lee]

Chris, just got an A3 2.0 TDI, it already goes well but for a few hundred quid it could be a pocket rocket and still have a nice mpg

[Southwell]

hmmm, so what can I get out of 2.0 TDI A3? Its about 150 standard I think.

Probably around 180, if you ran an induction kit and exhaust possibly 200.

[chrispattinson]

So are you going to go first then Lee?

[mark christopher]

The plug and play units trick the ECU to think that it is always running cold, and it will up the fueling. Plenty of black smoke. They do up the BHP - but not in a good way.

Having a remap causes no premature wear or issues if done properly. The VAG engines such as the GTI TDI 150 golf is restricted as if unrestricted it would make the flagship petrol GTI look silly. :lol:

What have you bought dude?
not true

they trick the ecu into thinking the fuel rail pressure is lower than it is, the ecu then ramps the fuel pressure up resulting in more fuel injected into the cylinder and a bigger bang.

the gimics you see for petrols make the pcm think its colder and it increases fuel to run the engine richer, perfect if you want to melt your cat

[Southwell]

perfect if you want to melt your cat

Sounds good to me, my cats are bloody annoying......o wait....:woot:

[ben]

pmsl southwell:lol::thumbsup:

[Lee]

I am tempted, but i am dubious of the plug and play ones, i would like to know it has been remapped properly as i imagine no two engines are the same

[Southwell]

Is it brand new?

[Lee]

No, 04, i wouldn`t buy a brand spanker. the car has halved in value in 3 years as it is:D

[Northy]

Lee,

Be carefull of the plug and play ones, no two engines are the same.

G

[Southwell]

Thats ok then, it's run in. I would get a quote for a custom remap. You best hitting a VAG forum as there will be people who know the best places to go, or speak to Nick.

[Kopite]

Lee,

Be carefull of the plug and play ones, no two engines are the same.

G

:woot::woot:

[Lee]

Stan, i have made the beaver thread just for you:thumbsup:

[phil c]

hi guys my sister company does ecu remapping for most popular makes , common performance gains are around 25% on power and torque and up to 5% on fuel economy if driven correctly , the increases are kept within the mechanical limits of the engine thus not compromising the reliability of the vehicle
01482 210053

[Darren Boyle]

We have chipped our Mondeo ST diesel with the Superchips Bluefin and it has made a big differance. Top end and in particular pick up is far better and if anything fuel economy too is improved certainly no worse. I had one before on my Focus RS and was impressed with it and when me and the wife picked up the Mondeo I convinced her it was for the better to do the sameto this car too!! :D

[mw02veg]

ive got a festa st i know its petrol but alot of ppl had trouble with the bluefin units caused all sorts of trouble! dream science is the one!! can have 3 different settings stored on the handset and a custom map on the car so u can swop and change as u like. its worth ringing a few specialist and find out ur options

[MattW]

I've got a Leon TDi 150 and keep thinking about getting it done. Is still under warrenty for a couple months, so will leave till after then at least.

Jabbasport aren't all that far from me, so there's a good chance i'll go there, as they have a fairly good rep in VAG circles. There are others, i know some that talk about REVO as being good, but i seem to remember Gem saying she wasn't so convinced about them.

[bigred5765]

lee we ran a plug and play one in the Peugeot 206tdi we had it was ace, better fuel economy faster right the way through the range miles better, and the advantage of being able to unplug it for service to not void warranty
try here (http://tunit.co.uk) not cheap but they work and are guaranteed

[RogerM]

Right then guys before I drone on I feel the need to qualify what I am about to say buy saying that for the last decade I have worked in the design, development and specification of diesel fuel systems.
The major driving force in diesel engine development is the advancing emissions regulations. Whenever the regs tighten the fuel injection equipment (here in called FIE) in terms of both hardware and has to take a leap forward in terms of pressures and actuation delays. The number of injection events per engine cycle increase and nozzle opening pressures both increase in absolute terms and achievable range.
All of this requires more of the engines power to drive the system. This is why older engines like my rotary pump based unit in my Passat can be more efficient than the more modern unit injector (PD) & common rail engines. Also the emission control systems will tend to compromise performance to benefit the emissions. This is a simple fact that many people overlook when buying a diesel car!

The various methods mentioned, and many more, of fooling the ECUs in to throwing more fuel in are all possible and are all used and, to be brutally honest, all kill engines!!!!
The only safe way to improve the performance of a diesel engine by tweaking the ECU is to actually remap, not try and trick it .... it is smarter than you are (especially Ash) but also dumb enoungh not to care.
To this end all the plug in wonder modules will give you a short term performance gain but ultimately will cost you serious money.
The only thing to do is to get the car to a rolling road and have it remapped. Superchips modem dealers can also gain enough info from the self learning mode that VW ECUs have to make imprvoments directly ... still not as good as one with a set of rollers though.
The way these real remap solutions work is to take out some of the restrictions built into the engine map to meet specific emission points, increase the safe maximum boost levels, change the injection timing and yes (at some conditions) throw some more fuel in. I am sure that most of you appreciate that a diesel is a fuel governed engine (unlike a petrol with is air governed) so these tweaks lead directly to sharper performance and importantly a more optimium torque curve.
It is the bulked out and often more linear torque curve that makes the car feel so much nicer to drive, it also improves the transisions from one driving mode to another so you generally don't need to push so hard to keep it going so you get better economy. The increases in boost control and changes in timing improve the thermal efficiency of the motor so again better economy.
It really is a win-win situation!!!

My Passat is a great example of what can be achieved, originally a 110bhp AFN engined car, a roller session took it to 142bhp (with a couple of other little tweaks). When I had the head off next (1 of only 2 pourous blocks VW UK had seen on an AFN) I swapped the cam, changed the injector nozzles and turbo. The result of that little lot is 168bhp, 337NM and 55mpg average on the daily run.

[Chrislong]

Roger, you certainly know your stuff!!!

The work you have done on your Passat, would you do to anyone else's car for them - how much would it cost?

I can see many people buying cheap, middle of the road TDI's and cheating the theiving taxman :thumbsup:

[RogerM]

Chris the short answer is no I can't, I just don't have the time.


I work just around the corner from Stonehouse VW AUDI centre who build so fairly hot cars for the VW cup (including VW UK's own entry!) and most of the specific parts knowledge and setup came from them. All I did was bolt some of it together as they were doing the engine return to VW UK (who really do customer service well by the way).

There is no rocket science in the build, just the majic touch in the set-up on the rollers for which I can claim no credit.

As for the tax comment I must admit that I really want another car, a newer A6 TDI, but I can not justify the increase in running costs (especially tax) and I am only going to turn it into a dented rolling kennel with added garage stains so what's the point. I actually can't see myself buying a post 2001 car now the tax rules have changed, not that I would be able to afford one anyway :(

Thanks for the comments .... glad my new boss agrees .. LOL

[Chrislong]

Ive just been reading Junes Evo, and what I mean about cheating the taxman is: If buy a post 2001 average TDI, the tax bands are quite reasonable compared to the hotter versions, especially petrol, but then the cars can be tuned to high specs - and the car is still rated on same emmisions and therefore remains a god taxband.

For example, a BMW 118d ;)

[super__dan]

Rog,

There is a chance I might end up losing my company car in a couple of months and therefore will be looking at buying an old, cheap (1k ish) VW motored diesel. However there are so many differnet versions, do you know which are ones to go for and which to avoid (if any)?

[Stu]

Have they finally worked out who caused all them derailments?

[super__dan]

all them derailments?

??? Assuming you're talking to me Stu, asside from the one at Grayrigg I'm not sure what other ones you're refering to? Rail continues to be the safest form of UK transport

We might have to take this conversation offline if you're interested?

[RogerM]

Rog,

There is a chance I might end up losing my company car in a couple of months and therefore will be looking at buying an old, cheap (1k ish) VW motored diesel. However there are so many differnet versions, do you know which are ones to go for and which to avoid (if any)?

Dan,

For a grand your not going to get much but you should, if you look hard enough, find a Passat or Golf with the AFN engine (110bhp in stock form). The AFN is the best "overall", all things considered, VW diesel engine. Yes the later PD lumps are hotter in stock form, yes the very recent common rail engines are as smooth as silk. None of those have the bang-per-buck that the AFN can give. The AFN was fitted from 97 to 2000 in Golf, Bora, Passat and Leon.

I know several people with 200K+ old AFN lumps running as sweet as the day they left the factory.
The other thing to consider is that running anything other than regular pump diesel in the PD engines is a bit risky and down right stupid in the common rail units.
Obviously you still have to pay the duty on veg oil if you do decide to run it. The rotary pump on the AFN will run 100% "biofuel" with no grief but the resulting performance and visual emissions will put you off ..... it's like sharing a tent with Doom .... a gradual wind up with an unpleasant exhaust odour! I have personally known people run 80% bio 20% diesel with no issues.

The 90bhp rotary pump engine is just about ok in the Golf but in the Passat it's just not man enough.


If you can find a later PD (Eelectronic Unit Injector based engine) then just make sure it's not the early 105bhp unit ..... its a dog in stock form as it was only really done to make a tax break in Germany! It was very quickly replaced in the UK by the 100bhp unit which was much more flexible and had far more mid-range torque.

The 115bhp units are good but you'll struggle to get one for £1K and they aren't as good on fuel as the older rotary pump based engines.


If you decide not to go VW based be careful and a lot of companies shared their diesels. If I had to make a choice of a non VW it would be either the Vaux' 1.7 TD (Iveco lump) or the Toyota (if you can stay awake long enough to complete the test drive .... all the chassis were crap).

Stay clear of the Nissans, Renaults and Volvos. The Pugs engine was no bad (talking about the HDi unit) but the normal warnings about French cars apply (but you had a 306 S16 IIRC so maybe you won't be so bothered).


Biggest things to look for are smoke on start up and smoke on lift off. A little bit on hard acceleration is common so don't worry about that.
With diesels I'd rather have a high milage car that has spent all it's time on motorways than a lower milage car that's been a town based shopping trolley. It is really important to let the turbo cool after a run, I normally either try to do the last mile off boost or let her idle for 30secs to a minute before switching off.

It's a said thing to say but now I've lived with a VW diesel estate for so long there is no way I could consider anything else for my daily driver!!!

[Chrislong]

Daneth,
Don't get me wrong, I detest anything that is French with passion, including the cars. But for 1k you could get a 1995-1996 Pug 306 Tdi or Citroen Xsara. Don't get me wrong, I know little about the engines, but I do hear Scott Davis drone on about how good they are.

The other suggestion is a last of the Mk's Escort Tdi.

As you know, my dad has plenty of contacts in the trade. Do you want me to get the word out to find a car for you?

[phil c]

Dan,

For a grand your not going to get much but you should, if you look hard enough, find a Passat or Golf with the AFN engine (110bhp in stock form). The AFN is the best "overall", all things considered, VW diesel engine. Yes the later PD lumps are hotter in stock form, yes the very recent common rail engines are as smooth as silk. None of those have the bang-per-buck that the AFN can give. The AFN was fitted from 97 to 2000 in Golf, Bora, Passat and Leon.

I know several people with 200K+ old AFN lumps running as sweet as the day they left the factory.
The other thing to consider is that running anything other than regular pump diesel in the PD engines is a bit risky and down right stupid in the common rail units.
Obviously you still have to pay the duty on veg oil if you do decide to run it. The rotary pump on the AFN will run 100% "biofuel" with no grief but the resulting performance and visual emissions will put you off ..... it's like sharing a tent with Doom .... a gradual wind up with an unpleasant exhaust odour! I have personally known people run 80% bio 20% diesel with no issues.

The 90bhp rotary pump engine is just about ok in the Golf but in the Passat it's just not man enough.


If you can find a later PD (Eelectronic Unit Injector based engine) then just make sure it's not the early 105bhp unit ..... its a dog in stock form as it was only really done to make a tax break in Germany! It was very quickly replaced in the UK by the 100bhp unit which was much more flexible and had far more mid-range torque.

The 115bhp units are good but you'll struggle to get one for £1K and they aren't as good on fuel as the older rotary pump based engines.


If you decide not to go VW based be careful and a lot of companies shared their diesels. If I had to make a choice of a non VW it would be either the Vaux' 1.7 TD (Iveco lump) or the Toyota (if you can stay awake long enough to complete the test drive .... all the chassis were crap).

Stay clear of the Nissans, Renaults and Volvos. The Pugs engine was no bad (talking about the HDi unit) but the normal warnings about French cars apply (but you had a 306 S16 IIRC so maybe you won't be so bothered).


Biggest things to look for are smoke on start up and smoke on lift off. A little bit on hard acceleration is common so don't worry about that.
With diesels I'd rather have a high milage car that has spent all it's time on motorways than a lower milage car that's been a town based shopping trolley. It is really important to let the turbo cool after a run, I normally either try to do the last mile off boost or let her idle for 30secs to a minute before switching off.

It's a said thing to say but now I've lived with a VW diesel estate for so long there is no way I could consider anything else for my daily driver!!!
what about the skoda fabia tdi or octavia tdi , all the same running gear as above but cheaper to buy than vw , audi ,ect

[RogerM]

Phil .... true enough but too new to really get for Dan's £1k budget with a PD in and they never had the AFN lumps in them from the factory.

Obviously I am basing prices on those down in the South West ..... as they vary so much depending on what you want and which region your looking in it's worth shopping round.

Occassionally I still buy and sell Mk2 Golf GTIs ........ go for about a fiver in London as the insurance makes them a non viable option for many ....... drive them 100 miles up the M40 and you have a £1.5k car potentially!!!!

[Colinevan]

My daily runner is a 95 306 dturbo. (92 bhp std )not the hdi version.

Its now on 164k and i think its had the fuel pump tweaked (its mechanical) and the boost upped slightly (again mechanical).

coming from a 321 bhp M3, the dturbo felt dead, but coupled with very short range gear changes vs relatively low top end gearing meant that the 306 has a top speed of no more than 120 mph with revs at 5k. In gear acceleration in 5th at 70 and 80 puts many newer cars to shame.
Its quite a nippy car.

Iv been experimenting with bio diesel and veg oil, as in my eyes its only a cheap car and at the worst, a replacement engines only going to cost £300 or so. How wrong was i too doubt it...

i reckon with veg oil or bio running upto 80 percent mix, the car runs sweeter, less boost but sounds quiter, poss due to the oil cleaning out the fuel lines, tank etc etc. Iv yet to report anything bad about it. only pro being demand is very high in manchester.

My reccomendation for a sub 1k car is a mint 306 dturbo not hdi for around £700. Iv ran mine for 50k and i think its only cost me £350 to keep healthy.

Col.

[Stu]

The other suggestion is a last of the Mk's Escort Tdi.




Body-shells made from washing machine monkey metal unfortunately, mines on it's way out. My ZX was a much better car, essentially the same as the 306.

[super__dan]

Rog, thanks for the ace advice, if worst happens and I lose my car I'll defo be looking at that.

I used to have a GTi-6 and it was a bloody great car so I'll equally be cosindering those, can't be the motor Vermins dad had though as that was slow to an extent I didn't think possible.

Chris, may very well take you up on that but fingers corssed come July 26th I'll be OK :)