Petrol Prices (answer)

[Wraggy]

Just had this email through , makes interesting reading if we can manage it .
See what you think and pass it on if you agree with it

We are hitting 123.9 a litre in some areas now, soon we will be faced
with paying 2.00 a ltr. Philip Hollsworth offered this good idea:

This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the 'don't buy petrol on a certain
day campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil
companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to
hurt ourselves by refusing to buy petrol. It was more of an
inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them. BUT,whoever thought
of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work.

Please read it and join in!

Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to
think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP, we need to take aggressive
action to teach them that BUYERS control the market place not sellers.
With the price of petrol going up more each day, we consumers need to
take action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come
down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their Petrol!
And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.
Here's the idea:

For the rest of this year DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two biggest
oil companies (which now are one), ESSO and BP.


If they are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to reduce
their prices. If they reduce their prices, the
other companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact we
need to reach literally millions of Esso and BP petrol buyers. It's
really simple to do!!

Now, don't wimp out at this point... keep reading and I'll explain how
simple it is to reach millions of people!!

I am sending this note to a lot of people. If each of you send it to
at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at
least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the
message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached
over THREE MILLION consumers! If those three million get excited and
pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been
contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it...
..

THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

Again, all You have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all.(and
not buy at ESSO/BP) How long would all that take? If each of us sends
this email
out to ten more people within one day of receipt,
all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next
8days!!! Acting together we can make a difference . If this makes
sense to you, please pass this message on.

PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 69p a LITRE
RANGE

It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your
petrol at Shell, Asda,Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons Jet etc. i.e.
boycott BP and Esso

[Kopite]

i'm sure someone else posted that a while back???

[telboy]

I buy 99% of my fuel at morrisons anyway, so that will be easy to achieve.:thumbsup: Mainly because its around 3p cheaper round here to buy it from them.:D

[Alfonzo]

Possibly the worst idea I've heard since somebody suggested using Marmite as Diff lubricant..

The vast majority of the price of petrol is TAX. That is the governments depmartment, not the oil companies. So the government is where efforts would have to be focused, perhaps banning Futures Trading on petroleum.

But rest assured, if they drop the tax on fuel they will raise it elsewhere as the government is practically bankrupt.

Happy Days

[Nick Goodall]

I've seen a similar mail going round for a few years now but obviously people either don't do it, or it doesn't work :-(

I for one avoid BP and Esso purely as the two closest to me and cheapest are Sainsbury's, shell and Texaco but i guess most people just don't worry about it??

Maybe there's also that bit of reverse psychology also in that if BP and Esso see a slight reduction in useage they up their prices to make more on the business they do get?? I guess the problem is most of the service stations seem to be BP so the money they make alone probably helps a massive amount to the disgusing profits they make as people stop there are mainly company car drivers who don't pay for their fuel or have a BP fuel card etc, plus service stations charge more for everything anyway and i guess there's also a lot of cases where people NEED fuel at that moment so have to stop wherever they can?

[Nick Goodall]

Possibly the worst idea I've heard since somebody suggested using Marmite as Diff lubricant..

The vast majority of the price of petrol is TAX. That is the governments depmartment, not the oil companies. So the government is where efforts would have to be focused, perhaps banning Futures Trading on petroleum.

But rest assured, if they drop the tax on fuel they will raise it elsewhere as the government is practically bankrupt.

Happy Days

Yeah the tax is really OTT but the profits that most of the Oil companies is still through the roof and breaking records every year so something is obviously still not right.....

[Kopite]

who do you think Sainsburys, Tesco, Morrisons etc get their fuel from???

[sosidge]

This same email was being sent around during the last fuel protests (remember the shock then at petrol reaching £1 a litre?).

It makes no sense whatsoever to only boycott Esso and BP.

Most likely this bit of spam came from the desk of Shell's chief executive.

If you want to use market forces to cut the cost of fuel - stop buying it! Use your feet (or bike/bus/train) for more journeys, cut out the unnecessary car journeys, get rid of your gas-guzzler and buy something fuel efficient.

[Nick Goodall]

who do you think Sainsburys, Tesco, Morrisons etc get their fuel from???

Doh! BP!

http://www.petrolprices.com/sainsburys.html

[Southwell]

I only go to shell, unless im on fumes.

[Nick Goodall]

This is quite interesting - posted on Lycos:

I used to work for this industry and can confirm that the supermarkets buy their petrol from the same refineries as the major brands such as Shell and Esso but, they are not the same petrol / diesel. It is the additives that differentiate between the branded products and the not quite so good quality supermarket own brands. I’m surprised to say there is no branding on the tankers you see delivering the petrol to your supermarket though. They are commonly branded with the name of a petrol company. This is because they are no longer owned by the petrol companies so can transport fuel for who ever they want and you frequently see branded tankers delivering to supermarkets but they do not contain the same fuel.

All fuels come from the same refinery (s) and are essentially the same, the difference is in the additives. At our local oil terminal at Buncefield in Hemel Hempstead (scene of the recent fire), petrol is received by pipeline from BP, Total/Fina and Shell refineries.
Each type of fuel is kept in the separate brands at the terminal, they don’t have special tanks for fuel destined for supermarkets.

The tankers are filled from the appropriate tanks regardless of their destination but the additives are added before the tanker leaves the depot. All fuels have additives included … the difference is that the branded petrol has additives that enhance the performance and the supermarket petrol has additives to make it cheaper. Mineral oil is often added to diesel fuel for example. There is a maximum level of contamination of mineral oil permitted and the supermarkets regard this as a standard and not a maximum.

If you think that supermarket petrol is the same as from your branded fuel supplier, remember the damage to people’s cars caused by using Tesco and Morrisons petrol last year. The reason for this was that it was made using reclaimed/scrap toluene solvent which had been used to wash PCBs in electronics factories. No reputable oil companies were involved in that scandal as I’m sure none of them would use a cut price additive such as this.

[antnee]

We just need a tax on people coming in the country (like turkey does), only have job seekers allowence for 6months and any one who wants to claim benifits needs to go for an interview. Also anyone that needs an interpreter should have to pay for one themselves, like every other country does!!

Sorted!

O one other thing, motorways should become autobahns

[Kopite]

This is quite interesting - posted on Lycos:

I used to work for this industry and can confirm that the supermarkets buy their petrol from the same refineries as the major brands such as Shell and Esso but, they are not the same petrol / diesel. It is the additives that differentiate between the branded products and the not quite so good quality supermarket own brands. I’m surprised to say there is no branding on the tankers you see delivering the petrol to your supermarket though. They are commonly branded with the name of a petrol company. This is because they are no longer owned by the petrol companies so can transport fuel for who ever they want and you frequently see branded tankers delivering to supermarkets but they do not contain the same fuel.

All fuels come from the same refinery (s) and are essentially the same, the difference is in the additives. At our local oil terminal at Buncefield in Hemel Hempstead (scene of the recent fire), petrol is received by pipeline from BP, Total/Fina and Shell refineries.
Each type of fuel is kept in the separate brands at the terminal, they don’t have special tanks for fuel destined for supermarkets.

The tankers are filled from the appropriate tanks regardless of their destination but the additives are added before the tanker leaves the depot. All fuels have additives included … the difference is that the branded petrol has additives that enhance the performance and the supermarket petrol has additives to make it cheaper. Mineral oil is often added to diesel fuel for example. There is a maximum level of contamination of mineral oil permitted and the supermarkets regard this as a standard and not a maximum.

If you think that supermarket petrol is the same as from your branded fuel supplier, remember the damage to people’s cars caused by using Tesco and Morrisons petrol last year. The reason for this was that it was made using reclaimed/scrap toluene solvent which had been used to wash PCBs in electronics factories. No reputable oil companies were involved in that scandal as I’m sure none of them would use a cut price additive such as this.

confirmed by my old man who works for Shell :thumbsup:

[Alfonzo]

Yeah the tax is really OTT but the profits that most of the Oil companies is still through the roof and breaking records every year so something is obviously still not right.....

Indeed, but you have to understand - even if they reduced their prices by something relatively massive - say 25%, the cost of fuel at the pump would not change by anything like that amount.

The cost of oil is ramping because of many factors, speculative trading being one of the nastier ones plus increased demand from other countries. Basically, there isn't enough to go round so we will have to get used to it.

[Nick Goodall]

Indeed, but you have to understand - even if they reduced their prices by something relatively massive - say 25%, the cost of fuel at the pump would not change by anything like that amount.

The cost of oil is ramping because of many factors, speculative trading being one of the nastier ones plus increased demand from other countries. Basically, there isn't enough to go round so we will have to get used to it.

Until we get really desperate and start hacking down the New Forest you mean :lol: There is a fair amount of oil there apparently but it's never been worth ruining the whole area for (yet)!!

[Lee]

The UK gets virtually no oil from the north sea, it mainly comes in from places like baku and the CIS now, it is cheaper to do that than spend millions on getting the dregs from the north sea. This is the theory anyway.

In reality there is as much oil under the north sea as there was when they first hit upon it back in the 60`s and 70`s, they keep finding new fields of oil and gas all the time. But it does require some extraction where as back in the early days it would come up under its own pressure, now we have to pump gas down into the well to create that pressure, that costs £££ but it is still profitable, just not as profitable as moving out to iraq, baku etc. There will be very little paid in the way of tax over there either as there is a lot of corruption within the governments and things are let go for a bit of cash.

It is also rumoured that bandits were employed by a major oil company in nigeria (beginns with S ends in hell) to come aboard a platform and take a few hostages for a number of days in a bid to deter other oil companies setting up in those waters.

I dont like paying inflated prices for oil etc and it is the government who are shafting us. Oil has not increase by 30% since christmas but the price at the pump has:thumbdown:

[Alfonzo]

I guess if they're planning on ripping up the North and South Poles, the New Forest might be fair game!

As an aside - I drove a Ethanol powered car our in Sweden last weekend. It drove just like a petrol but we got hardly any mileage from the tank, I'm guessing something like half of what it would have been on petrol. Bugger.

[sosidge]

As an aside - I drove a Ethanol powered car our in Sweden last weekend. It drove just like a petrol but we got hardly any mileage from the tank, I'm guessing something like half of what it would have been on petrol. Bugger.

And ethanol/biofuel production is driving up the price of wheat/corn - causing food riots in some developing countries!

There just aren't enough resources in the world for the number of people that want them any more. All it takes is a bad harvest and/or some funny business by OPEC and the world's economy is up the creek!

The only solution is for us to consume less - sod this "ethical consumer" nonsense - just try and get by on less stuff. It's cheaper that way too.

[Alfonzo]

Hit the nail on the head there. Consume less - yup, especially when you look at all the fatties about :(:woot:

[terry.sc]

I dont like paying inflated prices for oil etc and it is the government who are shafting us. Oil has not increase by 30% since christmas but the price at the pump has:thumbdown:Yet in that time the government hasn't put up the fuel duty at all, so that points the blame in the direction of the fuel companies and especially the fuel speculators - so why is everyone screaming at the government about the rising cost of fuel? No one seems to be shouting about the government doing something about the rising cost of groceries.:mad:
We are paying around the same amount of tax on fuel as they do in Germany, Finland, Belgium, but not as much as Sweden.

The vast majority of the price of petrol is TAX. That is the governments depmartment, not the oil companies. So the government is where efforts would have to be focused, perhaps banning Futures Trading on petroleum.

Currently 53.65 pence of a litre of unleaded is fuel duty, so currently less than half the price we pay. Usually the vat is added to that to give a much higher figure to throw at the government but we pay vat on most things, no one moans about paying 17.5% vat on TVs, DVDs, the car you put the fuel in, etc. so although over half WAS duty thanks to the oil companies (and OPEC can't/won't supply the demand) duty is no longer over half what we pay at the pump.

Why does this country always scream at the government to do something instead of doing something themselves? If you don't like the cost of fuel get a more economical car.
I had a job which meant a 300 mile per week journey and a big sports coupe that was lucky to manage 25 mpg. I did the sensible thing and swapped it for a little diesel that did 60mpg instead. Now I'm working nearer home I've swapped it for something with a big engine again as I can afford to run it. It's not economical but if fuel prices keep on going up I'll swap it for something cheaper to run, not sit and moan about how expensive it is.

And voting out Labour won't help, it was the Tories before them that pushed duty up so high in the first place. If labour hadn't abandoned the tories fuel escalator policy we would be paying at least another 20p per litre.

[Chrislong]

Why does this country always scream at the government to do something instead of doing something themselves? If you don't like the cost of fuel get a more economical car.
I had a job which meant a 300 mile per week journey and a big sports coupe that was lucky to manage 25 mpg. I did the sensible thing and swapped it for a little diesel that did 60mpg instead. Now I'm working nearer home I've swapped it for something with a big engine again as I can afford to run it. It's not economical but if fuel prices keep on going up I'll swap it for something cheaper to run, not sit and moan about how expensive it is.


So the fix is to roll on your back and loose the freedom of choice?

I like the car I have and I can afford it, it is becoming more expensive to use (VED & Fuel) and I don't like that as that is labour trying to force the public to drive crappy small cars or new breed efficient diesels (still very expensive 2nd hand), but to change cars atall costs money id rather not spend. Because my car costs a lot to run it is likely to depreciate, and I am being more careful now than ever of how much driving I do, and how fast I drive. But its not being changed until im ready.

But I pride myself in my car, I won't be forced to change, and I am all for getting my voice heard, signing petitions, hearing out ideas of boycotting brands, & heck id even be for protests and blockades. But I won't let the greedy "fill my boots" politicians dictate indirectly what choices I make.

[cwilson]

well heres a solution for some. if you have a diesel car you can run you car on used cooking oil! all you have to do is filter it, put it in the tank and drive. and last time i checked used cooking oil is dirt cheap if not free.

[Danny]

The idea of boycotting a particular company seems kind of stupid to me. If it happened it would lower prices in the super short term, ie this week. Everyone would then fill up there & bang, up go the prices & welcome back to square one. If BP were to go out of buisiness their facilities and assests would just be sold on & it would achieve nothing. It isnt a buyers market at all. That is just plain wrong. How can it be a buyers market? Its supply restrained!!

Chrislong why are small cars crappy? Id like to see people leave their egos at home a bit more & think differently when it comes to chosing which cars to run. I know a guy who runs a TVR Tuscan and I know a guy who has a Porsche 928, both awesome cars that cannot fail to leave you with a smile every time you drive them. But they go down to the shops on a saturday afternoon in a Vauxhall Astra & a 10 year old Renault Clio respectively. The money they save enables them to run much better 2nd cars & keep them in proper reliable shape & have enough change to fill em up & go for a spin on Sunday. I dont get why people try to make 1 car tick all the boxes, you just end up making too many comprimises. These days you can get so many excellent, reliable, fuel efficient 2nd hand cars now for small money, its madness the "keeping up with the jones" new car mentality that so many people seem to have.

The government could really help this thinking by giving small cars tax breaks & really hitting the big engines hard. I would love to see this happen, with the rates going up more for expensive, oil-slaughtering cars...4 liter engine? £800 tax per year. 6 liter? £1500. Id like to see a revival of something similar to what happened in Japan with all the tiny Kei cars in the 90s. They ruled.

[Chrislong]

well heres a solution for some. if you have a diesel car you can run you car on used cooking oil! all you have to do is filter it, put it in the tank and drive. and last time i checked used cooking oil is dirt cheap if not free.

Ive just heard about this yesterday, a friend of mine sells Bio fuel and his own vehicles have stop running on it due to a bacteria in the fuel which blocked the fuel filter with gunk. He has had to have his tank steam cleaned, all his fuel lines cleaned etc etc - basically cancels out all saving made by running a cheaper fuel.

Danny (Danny who?), my post was a rant but certainly no Ego included in it. Perhaps small cars are not crappy - but they're not suitable for my needs.

[Lee]

I agree with chris, why should the government effectively choose our cars for us, if you are a farmer up in the deepest darkest hills you would probably choose to use a landrover or some other large 4x4. Why should they be penalised for something they need to do their job:confused:

How do other govenments get away with taxing people less, in every respect, not just fuel? Are those countries on the verge of going bankrupt as well? Or is it just the fact that they use the funds they have wisely and not spend millions every year furnishing MPs london pads and spending more money on stupid campaigns:thumbdown:

If you or i handled our finances the way two jags has handled the countries money we would be behind bars. FACT!

[Swiss]

I approx. do 30-35K miles per year, and I certainly wouldn't want to be driving a small car.
Our company put us on a private lease scheme because of the ridicolous taxes the government put on 'company cars'. They now pay us a lump sum every month and we choose the car we drive.
When you spend that amount of time in a car, you do appreciate the finner things, size being no.1.
When I first started the job I used my own car for 6mths, and bombing up and down the M4 in a Saxo is no fun day in day out.
My 2pence worth and although slightly irrelative, as the company pay my petrol. The funny thing is they are having to re-calculate the pence per mile we get becuase of these silly petrol prices, (I still have to pay for all my private miles:))

[Alfonzo]

so why is everyone screaming at the government about the rising cost of fuel? No one seems to be shouting about the government doing something about the rising cost of groceries.:mad:
We are paying around the same amount of tax on fuel as they do in Germany, Finland, Belgium, but not as much as Sweden.


Because the government doesn't control half (or more) of the price of groceries! How much tax is directly applied to groceries? Not even VAT.

[burgie]

If you or i handled our finances the way two jags has handled the countries money we would be behind bars. FACT!

Did "two jags" ever handle the countries money? I thought it was our Current PM who did that for the past decade.

It's not the oil companies that are determining the cost of the petrol we buy, it is the government. They are maintaining ridiculously high taxation rates on fuel, whilst saying it's not a tax issue, its all down to supply and demand.

The government want us to buy economical cars because cars are bad for the environment, whilst expanding current airports...:thumbdown:

[Alfonzo]

Who are you talking about there, Chris? Not Gordon 'No more boom and bust' surely? :woot::o I've said some stupid things in my life, but that takes the Pi$$! bet he regrets that :lol::thumbdown:

[mark christopher]

well heres a solution for some. if you have a diesel car you can run you car on used cooking oil! all you have to do is filter it, put it in the tank and drive. and last time i checked used cooking oil is dirt cheap if not free.
utter crap

most modern diesel systems will fail if run on that, it clogs as chris has said and it certainly viods any warranty Ford offer and im sure it will other manufactures

[Danny]

I agree with chris, why should the government effectively choose our cars for us, if you are a farmer up in the deepest darkest hills you would probably choose to use a landrover or some other large 4x4. Why should they be penalised for something they need to do their job:confused:

It doesnt have to be an all-encasing rule that punishes all, there could easily be exceptions for people that "need" the power, but most people with large 4x4s dont need them. The government doesnt need to choose our cars for us, but a lot of people are just wasting oil, doing tescos & the school run in a range rover. They're still allowed to but it would be cool if they pay an extra cost for decadently wasting the earths resources just because they can.

[Lee]

You mean like you are wasting electricity, from your pc by being on oOple instead of doing something constructive:confused:

I agree though it doesnt have to be a tax across the board for all, but it is:thumbdown:

The government are a bunch of cocks who are basicailly in it for their own personal gain. Has anyone ever has an MP sympathise with them and actually go out of their way to help them? I have never heard of this in my local area.

I think it would be interesting to see how much red diesel has increased since the turn of the year and whether or not it is relative to the fuels with duty added. I would love for some truckers to bring the uk to a standstill again.

After Tally though :lol:

[Nick Goodall]

utter crap

most modern diesel systems will fail if run on that, it clogs as chris has said and it certainly viods any warranty Ford offer and im sure it will other manufactures

Haha i'm glad people don't just follow every bit of advice they read on here :lol:

I know of some old Escort vans that have tried it, but the stench alone is feckin terrible, talk about embarrassing too :D

[markwilliamson2001]

I know that this comment most peeps will turn there nose up at, but in an effort to keep 'toy' car racing, I car share to work with a colleague. We both work about the same time, and live in the same town, so car sharing is not quite as easy as driving yourself in, but I worked out that I saved

£300

a year simply by cutting down my miles by car sharing. It also made me less tired at the end of the day, since I wasn't having to concentrate on driving on the way home! (Bonus!!).

I believe for those people who live in cities (Worcester closest to me) is a prime example of how car sharing could benefit everyone... There would be less traffic which would cause less traffic jams, use less fuel, which would then reduce the demand for fuel, causing the price to drop...

I think instead of taxing fuel, either tax those people who drive along in a 14ft box of steel all to themself, OR give benefit to those who car share?

Just an idea..

[Lee]

Do you really notice £300 over a year though, personally i wouldn`t, its less than a pound a day:eh?:

Im not knocking you in anyway and its good that you have managed to do this and it works for you but personally id rather spend the £1 a day and work when i wanted and have my own space in the car and not be relying on anyone else.:)

[Doomanic]

the Transit has just cost £90 to fill up!:mad:
It'll do around 400 miles for that!:mad::mad:

I used biodiesel for a while last year and it was fine, but the supplier got flooded and the fuel was contaminated. The van never ran the same after that til it went back on the ordinary diesel.

I used to car share a few years ago, it's great until you want to work late, or not, and holidays can be a nightmare.

[Chrislong]

It doesnt have to be an all-encasing rule that punishes all, there could easily be exceptions for people that "need" the power, but most people with large 4x4s dont need them. The government doesnt need to choose our cars for us, but a lot of people are just wasting oil, doing tescos & the school run in a range rover. They're still allowed to but it would be cool if they pay an extra cost for decadently wasting the earths resources just because they can.

Hi Danny,
I agree, SOME people with 4x4's don't need them and I whole-heartily agree that they are the ones in the wrong. People who live in urban area's, don't go off-road and have several children should be driving MPV's or saloons. But my hate for them is due to the way they drive - may aswell be a white van in disguise.

BUT, the point I am getting at, is the rules the Government are making and the like, I initially thought would be aimed specifically at this type of 4x4 owner, but it isn't, its also hitting hard the average Mondeo, the mid/large high spec hatchbacks, sports cars and pretty much a big proportion of the country.

[Chrislong]

I think instead of taxing fuel, either tax those people who drive along in a 14ft box of steel all to themself, OR give benefit to those who car share?

Just an idea..

Granted, car sharing is a good plan. But only when it is possible to do so, and more often than not it is already happening, I drop someone off at home every evening.

These schemes I have heard about id not be keen on, I do not want a stranger in my car.

But don't penalise anyone who doesn't car share, the benefit to those who do is the split in the cost of fuel, the penalty for those who don't is they receive no benefit and pay all their own costs. Its nothing the government can force upon people, its a mindset that people need to get into.

[glypo]

The FACT is that the government are taxing our fuel, and it's the major cost. £0.57 is duty a litre, and the VAT is on top of the price and duty. At £1.15 a litre, the petrol station and fuel company are taking 40 pence, and the government are taking 74 pence.

So do your basic maths with that, the government is taxing 281% on fuel.

The price of a barrel of oil has doubled in just a couple of years, and the petrol prices haven't. Fuel companies just a few years ago were making a loss, now they're making a profit. It's supply and demand at the moment, and the demand is too high. And our Prime Minister has the cheek to sit the fuel companies down, and say they are charging too much. What a joke.

The bottom line is, the government won't drop fuel prices. We live in a country with the worlds highest fuel duty, the government can't lower the duty otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford to pay for nice houses and benefits for the unemployed. The demand is far to high, so petrol companies can't drop their prices.

Until a viable alternative comes along, such as fuel cell cars which will likely be the future...... complaining won't help (we don't really live in a democracy), so just buy fuel efficient cars. It's the only way. When that alternative does come along, expect car tax to rocket, as the government has no way of plugging that deficit.

[RogerM]

It's all down to the super high PERCENTAGE tax the gov' have on fuel .... a small increase in the price of the fuel itself is complertely swamped by the huge % increase in tax on that small amount.


As for the comments about food prices ..... why do you think they are going up so much? Something to do with the cost of fuel used to plant / harvest (in the UK), transport the raw materials, engergy costs in making the goods (even fresh stuff has a shed load of engergy applied to it in storage and treatment (huge cold stores / washing plants consume huge amounts!!!!!) and then transport of the finished food products.
The lions share of the cost of that lot is in tax, which is taxed ... then taxed again!!!!


As for running modern diesels on "bio fuel" or worse normal veg oil BE VERY, VERY, VERY CAREFUL.
The company I work for only supports the use of 5% biofuel ...... like most (as in 99%) of the other manufacures.

Just because the engine will burn it doesn't mean it has the right properties to look after the fuel pumps etc. Most people don't realise that the fuel is also the lube in most fuel pumps ...... even those that do don't realise the huge demands on the fuel pumps and the importance in the lubrication properties of the fuel.
If you don't clog your fuel lines, generate cold starting problems or cause nasty deposites in the injectors you will be hurting the pumps and shortening their life ...... anybody got any ideas how much a modern common rail diesel pump costs????

Be careful ........ and point your rage at the right people ...... so shout towards Westminster!

[Doomanic]

This should cheer a few people up.

UK diesel cheapest in Europe (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20080529/tuk-british-diesel-cheapest-pre-tax-6323e80.html)

[Lee]

I paid £1.39 a litre on the way home from EPR :confused:

[ben]

Dom your link doesnt work ;)

[millzy]

ha

i paid 1.19 from EPR

1.16 by me now

[Lee]

Thats Cheap!!!

[millzy]

its not really is it

[Wraggy]

ha

i paid 1.19 from EPR

1.16 by me now
Thats Unleaded i presume ???

[millzy]

yeah

farmer fule is 1.29 somthing by me

[Lee]

Ah i see now :blush:

[millzy]

well come on the title says Petrol

[Lee]

Yeah but wraggy has a diesel now :woot:

[millzy]

i thought it ran on the blood off his beat down victims

[DCM]

I pay 48.5p a litre...... :woot:

[GRIFF55]

yeah

farmer fule is 1.29 somthing by me

£1,37.9 in places by me, 7p a litre cheaper in London:o:o:cry:

[losixxx]

This should cheer a few people up.

UK diesel cheapest in Europe (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20080529/tuk-british-diesel-cheapest-pre-tax-6323e80.html)



its not!

http://cite-europe.carrefour.fr/modulosite2/new-gb.htm#

£1.13 per litre for diesel in france

[bigred5765]

I paid £1.39 a litre on the way home from EPR :confused:

i preferred it buy the pint it was cheaper then :woot:,£108 worth of petrol to get to EPR and back, how did everyone else do,

[Southwell]

I did it on £20 lol. Southport will be about £70-80 though :(

[Wraggy]

i did it there and back on £35 quid . 300 mile round trip :thumbsup:

[Lee]

580 mile round trip and it cost me £60:thumbsup: with a bit to spare


May have had my foot down on the way home too

[millzy]

80 quid 360 miles

should have been no more than 40quid but that F****ING sat nav that took me to every place in london apart from where i wanted to go

[Richard Lowe]

I managed to squeak 49mpg out of my (petrol!) Astra to and from EPR, 455 mile round trip on about £47 :)

You feel like a right tool doing 65mph on the motorway though :bored:

[Chequered Flag Racing]

You feel like a right tool doing 65mph on the motorway though :bored:

I'm :blush: to say I sometimes sit @ 60mph on cruise in a Passat TDI to go some places but I do get more than 55mpg :)

[Lee]

Well im pleased to see that it is 20p a litre cheaper in france at the moment that means i can go 16% faster and still spend the same :thumbsup:

[rcracer]

were you find the prices lee ?

[Lee]

here http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html

Its may 08 so there is probably a bigger gap now :thumbsup:

[losixxx]

80 quid 360 miles

should have been no more than 40quid but that F****ING sat nav that took me to every place in london apart from where i wanted to go


did you buy it from uncle bryn?

[rcracer]

unleaded more expensive in belguim than uk :(

http://www.theaa.com/onlinenews/allaboutcars/fuel/2008/June2008.pdf

[millzy]

did you buy it from uncle bryn?

hahah no i got it from Halfords

[Wraggy]

I managed to squeak 49mpg out of my (petrol!) Astra to and from EPR, 455 mile round trip on about £47 :)

You feel like a right tool doing 65mph on the motorway though :bored:
i manged 49.7 mpg and that was doing about 80-90 mph :p

[Kopite]

me and Doddy car shared, so it was 60 quid for about 520 miles (but 30 quid each, sweeeeeeet!)

i don't think the fuel economy was helped by that fcuking car park they call the M25. We were delayed by a Mondeo inferno and a suicidal motorbiker, which meant we were on that motorway for nearly 3 hours, doing about 10 miles in total. GAY

[B44&501xRacerEX]

Yep nitro fuel prices are getting insane, so insane that most people
at my local track are running electric classes now.

The traxxas slash is getting popular at my local track.
I just wish we had modified 4-wheel though. I had to get a E-firestorm
because of that reason, I know it sux you have to spend more money
to fit in to the crowd....:yawn:

[RcRob]

I know it sux you have to spend more money
to fit in to the crowd....:yawn:

The crowd should follow you becasue your ACE :thumbsup:

[sparrow.2]

Yep nitro fuel prices are getting insane, so insane that most people
at my local track are running electric classes now.

The traxxas slash is getting popular at my local track.
I just wish we had modified 4-wheel though. I had to get a E-firestorm
because of that reason, I know it sux you have to spend more money
to fit in to the crowd....:yawn:


Classic randomness :thumbsup:

[Garry Driffill]

Juding by the above B-mag there actually talking about "Petrol" (In youre country " Gas "), not Nitro fuel ? :lol:

[B44&501xRacerEX]

Thanks Gary I have no clue what they were talking about.
So "Petrol "is "Gasoline". my bad:(
It's not getting any cheaper in the United States either.
About $3.99 a gallon in US dollars.

[Chrislong]

To and from EPR I did 560 miles and it cost me around £80. For me this is really good MPG, and I think I did it by sitting at a constant 85-ish (less on GPS). My car does suck gas like a $5 hooker.

Im wondering if fitting cruise control will make it even better. I recently fitted K&N which has made a big difference, and I know the remap it is going to get will help the MPG even more (except when I decide to go out for a play).

Chris

[Garry Driffill]

About $3.99 a gallon in US dollars.

Thats Mag-Tastic ! :o

[Chrislong]

Thanks Gary I have no clue what they were talking about.
So "Petrol "is "Gasoline". my bad:(
It's not getting any cheaper in the United States either.
About $3.99 a gallon in US dollars.

3.75 litres = 1 US Gallon.
UK£1 = US$2 (approx)

Therefore you are paying UK£0.532 per 1 litre in the USA
or another perspecting, we are paying equivalent to US$9 per US Gallon

We are paying around £1.20 (approx) per 1 litre in the UK

Bmag, for all but IQ, you got it good mate.

[cjm_2008]

I managed to squeak 49mpg out of my (petrol!) Astra to and from EPR, 455 mile round trip on about £47 :)

You feel like a right tool doing 65mph on the motorway though :bored:

my yam fazer 600 (02 model, carbed :thumbsup:) gives me 57mpg at an indicated 80mph cruise. biking - it's the way forward :p

[B44&501xRacerEX]

we are paying equivalent to US$9 per US Gallon

Jesus!!:woot: Id just stay home, or ride a bike.

No wonder this thread was created.....my word....
So basically your paying double what we are.....craziness

[Chrislong]

Jesus!!:woot: Id just stay home, or ride a bike.



Tell me 'bout it Meg, its bad, I tried doing both to save double the money but it didn't help. :thumbsup: :lol:

[Chrislong]

So basically your paying double what we are.....craziness

Mal, its 2.25 time more expensive for us!
Yes, its nuts. agreed.

[B44&501xRacerEX]

It's surprized me why electric racing is more popular in Europe than it is in the USA.
OMG I cannot stand Nitro!! Electric is faster and always has been, and it's more safe to the enviroment.

Id imagine since there is a nitro methane shortage here, that fuel there would be insane.
It went up to $45 dollars a gallon here. Glad I just run electric.
They shut down the USRA dragsters because of this.

[SlowOne]

Jesus!!:woot: Id just stay home, or ride a bike.

No wonder this thread was created.....my word....
So basically your paying double what we are.....crazinessBut... our cars do double the mileage of US cars, and more. So, to get from A to B, we pay about the same. ;)

[cjm_2008]

I don't think many people realise just how close we are to total meltdown.

the governments of the US and the UK daren't admit that we've reached peak oil - and the stuff that's still in the ground will cost an absolute fortune to refine. the OPEC countries will keep the last of the good stuff for themselves. a close friend of mine works in the oil surveying industry and gets a lot of inside info... but this isn't isn't a particularly well kept secret.

the fact that this has been coming for a very long time makes governmental incompetence even more annoying! if funding was ploughed into alternatives to fossil fuels, we'd have a viable alternative to use by now. but it's a catch 22 - our government relies on the motorist to prop up the benefit system.

this is a bit deep for an RC forum but it vexes me :p

[Lee]

Not entirely true.

I agree that the government relies on the motorists to pay for the benefit sysetm. But there is still a lot of oil in the north sea alone. There is also a huge amount of Black gold around russia CIS, Kazakhstan, azeri, not to mention up north around the arctic circle.
According to a major oil company i worked for last year there is as much oil in the north sea now as they thought they had back in the 70`s. Granted, its not as easy to get out as there is less pressure down there now. but there are ways to raise the pressure and make the baby gush :thumbsup:

There is not a shortage of oil, at the moment most platforms run at about 50-70% capacity. Why create an excess of oil when you can keep the price of oil high by keeping it a supply and demand situation ;)

[sparrow.2]

There is not a shortage of oil, at the moment most platforms run at about 50-70% capacity. Why create an excess of oil when you can keep the price of oil high by keeping it a supply and demand situation ;)

I was reading somewhere that about 25% of the price of a barrel of oil is dictated by speculation on the international marketplace.

Even if the reserves are still plentifull, prices aren't going to drop as consumption hasn't gone down significantly since the price increses of the last months. If anything they are going to be rising further. In Germany now the most I've seen it at was 1.60€ per litre, which works out at 1.27quid.

And we still drive everywhere and don't form carpools and don't use the bike like everyone says when the prices rise again.

I don't know how many times I've said I'd quit smoking at the next price increase and I'm still at 20 odd cigs a day.
I'm off down the halfmile to the shops in my car to buy a single packet of fags...

ARGHHH :woot:

[cjm_2008]

Not entirely true.

I agree that the government relies on the motorists to pay for the benefit sysetm. But there is still a lot of oil in the north sea alone. There is also a huge amount of Black gold around russia CIS, Kazakhstan, azeri, not to mention up north around the arctic circle.
According to a major oil company i worked for last year there is as much oil in the north sea now as they thought they had back in the 70`s. Granted, its not as easy to get out as there is less pressure down there now. but there are ways to raise the pressure and make the baby gush :thumbsup:

There is not a shortage of oil, at the moment most platforms run at about 50-70% capacity. Why create an excess of oil when you can keep the price of oil high by keeping it a supply and demand situation ;)

even if there is still oil out there - which there is, without a doubt, don't you think that we - and those in charge - should be doing as much as possible to wean the economy off fossil fuels?

it's going to run out soon (in our lifetime). if something isn't done, we'll find ourselves in a mad max film.

it's pretty bonkers that a lot of us have our lives built almost entirely around the availability of a tin box, propelled by controlled explosions in a smaller tin box, fuelled by black sludge produced over millions of years of heat and pressure.:woot:

[Lee]

I last heard that there was 200+ years of oil left, and that is what we know about. I really wouldnt believe the press or even so called experts on the news. Its all a form of marketing and keeping the prices high.

There is also a lot of money being invested in nuclear energy, 6 power stations will be built over the next 20 years. Then there is the wind farms that are being built all the time.

I really wouldnt worry about running out of oil, we will never see it happen neither will our kids or theirs. :D

[_JP_]

the answer is to steal it!

Well I'm surprised more and more petrol thefts aren't common
I guess when people start having number plates stolen we will know whats coming next.

[SlowOne]

I don't think many people realise just how close we are to total meltdown.

the governments of the US and the UK daren't admit that we've reached peak oil - and the stuff that's still in the ground will cost an absolute fortune to refine. the OPEC countries will keep the last of the good stuff for themselves. a close friend of mine works in the oil surveying industry and gets a lot of inside info... but this isn't isn't a particularly well kept secret.

the fact that this has been coming for a very long time makes governmental incompetence even more annoying! if funding was ploughed into alternatives to fossil fuels, we'd have a viable alternative to use by now. but it's a catch 22 - our government relies on the motorist to prop up the benefit system.

this is a bit deep for an RC forum but it vexes me :pI can't agree with this on so many levels, and tend to agree with the posters that followed.

The Governments don't have to admit to something that isn't true - there is oil in the ground. The refining capacity is an issue, so even if it was pumped out, there might not be enough capacity to refine it.

This is not Government incompetence, it is our incompetence! We have not done anything to change our behaviour in the near-40 years that this has been known. In 1975, they said there would be no oil by 2000. In 1995, they said there would be no oil by 2010. The fact is we don't know the truth, and anyway, the truth is that truth depends on where you are sitting looking at things at the time.

OPEC countries have no intention of keeping anything to themselves. They don't want high oil prices, because then it means that alternative fuels become more viable, and alternative fields (Alaska, Bearing Sea, deep North Sea, etc.) become viable too. They have striven for years to keep oil prices affordable so we wouldn't go down those roads.

The tax revenues from North Sea oil was spent by the Thatcher Government on income tax cuts for the rich. Now that revenue stream has dried up. Those taxes have to be replaced. The last Tory Government peaked at 42% of GDP taken in tax, and this Government has only just reached the same figure. You can only raise moeny from people who have it - what else would you tax if not motoring? Do you want your basic rateof tax to be 35% (to replace the motoring taxes added by this Government. Get real!! The tax we pay has to go up because the revenue streams from North Sea oil taxes are drying up - get used to it.

The remedy lies with us. Governments are fundamentally incompetent, so how do you think they are going to suddenly become clever and get us out of this? You can't call them stupid and then expect them to solve the problem. The answer lies with us, and the sound ideas the posters above are talking about. Do something - stop bleating like a victim.

[Lee]

SlowOne you are correct apart from one point, the north sea oil has not dried up, it is just more expensive to get it out nowadays plus the tax charged by the government forces the bigger companies like BP and Shell to go as far as russia and retreive it. It is actually cheaper to build a new field of platforms in CIS and pump it back than use the existing platforms in the North sea.

That tells me that the government is seriously in trouble when options like this become cheaper :(

[Northy]

Mr Jm Dixon knows why fuel is so much, ask him next time you see him :)

G

[Lee]

I think i know what his answer will be ;)

[bigred5765]

is it to rude for here,?

[nobby]

you should try my fuel costs.
monthly fuel cost 10 thousand pounds:cry:

govenment = robbing ba#~ards

[Lee]

Thats like Ishy`s running that Holden/Monaro :thumbsup:


Totally agree on the 2nd point though. if they cut back on their 2nd homes etc then we could be better off :(

[Southwell]

I caught a top gear the other day. It was about 5 years old and the petrol was 80.9p a litre....:(

[nobby]

thats the companys fuel costs by the way.

fuel costs per truck per month have gone up almost one thousand pounds in the last six months.

[B44&501xRacerEX]

But... our cars do double the mileage of US cars, and more. So, to get from A to B, we pay about the same. ;)

Oh...I forgot european cars are more reliable than ours.:yawn:

[Col]

Oh...I forgot european cars are more reliable than ours.:yawn:

Reliabability has nothing to do with it.
A huge lazy American 4litre sedan is going to use loads more fuel than a European 2litre making approx the same amount of power...

[Southwell]

No, their just crap, cheaply made and handle like a bouncy castle....

[ryan]

No, their just crap, cheaply made and handle like a bouncy castle....

This is the wrong thread to be telling us how bad your xx4 is Ian..:p

[Lee]

At least the americans get a choice of engine size to use, they could easily buy a honda or something similar and save on fuel. We dont get that option.:(

[SlowOne]

Oh...I forgot european cars are more reliable than ours.:yawn:Sorry, thought you were American, where mileage means fuel consumption - mpg - not distance. What I meant was that European cars do almost twice as many miles per gallon as US cars, so even though we pay almost twice as much for fuel, the same journey costs the same amount of money.

At least the americans get a choice of engine size to use, they could easily buy a honda or something similar and save on fuel. We dont get that option.:(What? I can buy cars of the same type with engines from 1.2 litre to 2.something litre. In the US, it's usually 3.something to 4.something - where's my lack of choice?

They could buy a Honda, or something similar. Apparently, the biggest reason for not doing so is that they think smaller cars are unsafe when others are running around in pick-up trucks, etc. Almost half the US car market is pick-ups; the biggest selling car by model in the World is the Ford F150 pick-up truck, not any Honda, Toyota, VW, etc.

At least, it used to be. With these fuel prices, no wonder Ford, GM and Chrysler are in the poo, and Honda, Toyota and Nissan are laughing all the way to the bank... ;)

[Lee]

I agree we do have a choice but we still have high fuel bills regardless of what we run compared to the US. If they wanted too they could have very cheap fuel bills but like you say they choose to have the big pick ups etc.

My car does approx 50mpg but i still spend a lot on fuel, if i ran the same car in the US i would be a lot better off. :)

[SlowOne]

For someone of my age, this does have some amusement value. From 1970 to 1973, the price of oil went up four times, from $3 to $12 a barrel. OPEC countries embargoed deliveries to countries that supported Israel, we had rationing coupons issued and many of us simply couldn't get to work as there was no fuel at all. We survived.

The same thing happened in 1979, when oil went to $80 a barrel, and then dropped back to about $40 a barrel within a few years. We survived.

Now the price has doubled, and all of a sudden we are complaining about the tax we pay on the fuel. If we had been in America, we would be paying almost five times what we did three years ago, and not less than double. We'll survive.

The era of cheap money borrowed on the back of ever-rising asset (house) prices is coming to an end. If you have been prudent and kept things in check, you'll be fine. If you've been stupid, borrowed to the hilt, and have no assets to back that up, you'll be screwed. However, it is here, so there's no use complaining.

What amuses me is the attitude of the press and some posters on forums that seems to think this is the worst thing that has ever happened (not) and we are all doomed! Think of it this way - the price of a barrel of oil in 2007 money has only just gone above what is was in the 1860s, and they survived, too!