Building a table top/whip table tops at outdoor venue...?

[Gavin Collingwood]

Now this is just a thought and I don't know the logistics of it but I was thinking the outdoor track would be so much better and a lot more character (like the old track or southport) with some more permanant features. My proposal is we build a table top/ whip jumps like Robin Hood raceway in front of the rostrum. I would gladly give up my time to build that as I think the track is a bit bare with very little permant features. What do we think about doing it over winter while the track is not in use? Again I dot know the logistics but want to see if there's a demand which I reckon there is and more importantly who would be up for it?
I think this would boost the club and attract more racers to club meetings

Gavin

[Spencer Mulcahy]

I have been noseying round on line at 1/8th nitro clubs and I have noticed how good the tracks look with many features jumps table tops woops rytham (spelling) sections. Have a look at Stoke and Frankley track Gav to see what they are like.

[Gavin Collingwood]

I think the section of whip/whoops whatever they're called at RHR dirt if front of the rostrum are brilliant think the track would benefit hugely if it had something like that.
i know it's a lot of work but if we all mucked in could we do it?

[Si Coe]

The thing is the old track had a big jump that:

1: Many complained was a car breaker
2: Used to get massive puddles around it
3: Attracted a lot of unwanted attention

Its point 3 that matters here.
It was quite normal to turn up at the old track and have to turf a bunch of bashers with nitros off to set up the track. Then when we started to pack away there would be a crowd of kids waiting to ride it on their BMXes.
The nitros used to attract complaints from the neighbours about noise, and even though we are an electric club they are still technically 'our fault'. The kids used to damage the lips on the jump with their wheels, drop litter (broken glass especially) and generally vandalise the track. Furthermore if any of them got seriously hurt messing up to jump, legally we are responsible even though they are trespassing!
The new track was intentionally designed to be dull without track markings on it. It doesn't get so many nitros and bikes, hasn't had too much vandalism and isn't a PR/Legal liability.

In other words - by all means make a jump, but please make it removable. That setup was chosen for a good reason and the reason remains.
What we need is a removable jump that is neither the size of the massive tabletop monster, nor as violent as the ski jump. Something more like typical indoor jumps, but painted in a suitable coating that it will still grip when wet.

[johnnygibbon]

do it
bury needs jumps
but it also needs storage space
i think rogs jump could be modified to be a bit more user friendly
weve been going on about features for ages what about the lifting astro and reshaping of some features
or adding some differant surfaces i no it would be a bit costly both in manpower and funds
but it would add a bit of spice to track , an it does need something ..........

[Gavin Collingwood]

It seems the club since I've returned to racing and to the new track are cutting their noses to spite their face, it sounds so PC gone mad!? Same thing with the roof from the rostrum... We all get wet coz of a few kids.
All we're talking about is moderate sized table tops/whip jumps. Surely we can handle a few kids?
Temporary jumps are just not the same as shaped jumps under the astro. I'm just putting this out there from a racers point of view, other local clubs are attracting far greater numbers than we are and there must be one main reason and I'm sure it's the track. our track and the size of it is great and it's got huge potential. But at the moment it's basically touring cars with the double jump the only standout feature. I just think some new features (preferably a jump/table top) but something new would be an improvement to make over the winter?...

[johnnygibbon]

+1......

[Gavin Collingwood]

I get the feeling it'll be left falling on deaf ears but we'll see on Sunday what roger reckons

[Gavin Collingwood]

Also if jumps are a concern from kids then Why not put a bumpy section in like the back section at southport? Jumps would be nice but it just needs some more permanent features whether its a table top, jumps, bumpy section, level changes. Like I said I'd happily give loads of time to make this happen. But obviously need the go ahead from the club and other members and other people to help (preferably with experience from building the track in the first place

[Si Coe]

I'm not sure I get how the track is supposed to effect our standing in terms of local clubs.
Southport is always the busiest, but their track actually has less jumps and features than ours has!
Ribble run indoors on a Friday night, and get a somewhat different crowd as a result. Their track is completely flat bar one or two tiny hops, but they are busy every week.

Its not a case of cutting our noses - its the harsh reality of 2012. Our problems are not unique (lots of tracks get vandalised) but unfortunately our circumstances make it exceptionally bad. Our track is on public land in a built up area (Unlike say RHR which is on private land in the middle of nowhere, but still got smashed up!) and very visible (Southport is in a public park, but tucked away to one side) so it is an obvious target.
We also don't (or didn't when the new track was being built) have a large team of willing helpers to repair damage.
We do intend to have a roof on the rostrum - but a secure one.
Removable jumps might not have the same feel, but fixed jumps have one major disadvantage - they are fixed! Our track may look featureless, but it offers limitless layout options, and with movable jumps we need never race the same layout twice. Other clubs pretty much run the same track every week......

[Gavin Collingwood]

Yes that's exactly my point southport has no jumps yet it has character and load of feature. The best bit being the bumpy back section, why couldn't we build a bumpy section? Kids wouldn't be bothered to rides their bike on that? Just something else if not jumps. A good well designed bumpy section would be brilliant. Surely there's no case against that?

[Si Coe]

Yes that's exactly my point southport has no jumps yet it has character and load of feature. The best bit being the bumpy back section, why couldn't we build a bumpy section? Kids wouldn't be bothered to rides their bike on that? Just something else if not jumps. A good well designed bumpy section would be brilliant. Surely there's no case against that?

Southports members complain about the bumpy section. It wears down tyres fast and scratches chassis.

Now before you say it yes, I know - Offroad racing!
All I'm saying is that you can't please everyone, and all track 'improvements' also have a downside.
I was in favor of concreting over the big central dome, with a Bury logo painted on as a change of surface - but then I did the Woodvale Rally meeting at Southport and killed a set of tyres. In an entire outdoor season with my 210 I've used up just 2 sets of Minispikes, and both were fine till I went to Southport. Our current track just doesn't wear tyres much which means the real cost of racing is a lot less. Might not sound much but if you add a bumpy section and tyres suddenly last meetings instead of months that won't help numbers either.

[Gavin Collingwood]

And southport has miles more feature than bury. It has concrete, cobbles, bumpy sections ect. Now I'm not saying do all that but surely we could build something new?

[Gavin Collingwood]

Southport wears tyres because of the concrete asphalt and cobbles not because of the bumpy bits. If we made a bumpy section under the astro, bingo tyre wear the same.

[Si Coe]

And southport has miles more feature than bury. It has concrete, cobbles, bumpy sections ect. Now I'm not saying do all that but surely we could build something new?

Absolutely. We certainly need to do some restructuring and reshaping of the existing features, and there is a case of adding some features at the same time. Some bumps under the astro makes sense - it wasn't considered at the time as the old track was very bumpy indeed and we were glad to get somewhere smooth!
But actually we have more features than you'd think already - they just aren't always used or used in the right way. The big dome is actually best employed as an off camber bend, the cross works especially well if approached at an angle, we rarely even use the banked bend. The problem is as they are under the astro you can't see them so people forget they are there!

[johnnygibbon]

just cos your to tight to buy tyres si, doesnt mean we cant have a bit of tarmac or cobbles . the old brick corners were ace . and didnt damage chassis... much . but like you said OFF ROAD
get some materials and let me loose with the rest of the boys who want a bit of mixed surface and airtime .
also a metal bar that bolts across the front of the jump take off would stop any pit bike nitro action
they do it at bmx trails to stop idiots
we could easilly fit it .... in front of the amazing new features that bmrcc need on track

also got an idea for making a wall ride outside with rogs table top . well easy no need to butcher it just a couple of screws

[Chris Elworthy]

All sounds interesting, I suppose we'd need to see what Roger says first.

Chris

[Gavin Collingwood]

Yeah the removable metal bar in front of a whoop jumps is a good idea that would stop idiots, I like the sound of it. I've always wanted a couple of big jumps that have not only a take off but a down ramp to aim for. If we could build something like the whoops at RHR in front of the rostrum it would be awesome. And as for people not seeing features maybe we could spray white lines next to them in a similar way that they do in the US on clay on the take offs and landings of every jump?

[Gavin Collingwood]

Absolutely. We certainly need to do some restructuring and reshaping of the existing features, and there is a case of adding some features at the same time. Some bumps under the astro makes sense - it wasn't considered at the time as the old track was very bumpy indeed and we were glad to get somewhere smooth!
But actually we have more features than you'd think already - they just aren't always used or used in the right way. The big dome is actually best employed as an off camber bend, the cross works especially well if approached at an angle, we rarely even use the banked bend. The problem is as they are under the astro you can't see them so people forget they are there!

Also about the banked bend, the problem is that it's too far into the corner and too sudden a banking so it's hard to implement it into a track

[Si Coe]

Also about the banked bend, the problem is that it's too far into the corner and too sudden a banking so it's hard to implement it into a track

That why we need to restructure. Remember this track wasn't built by us, just for us. It was meant to be a lot higher but the builders won't take it above the fence - being taller it would have started earlier and had a more gentle curve. Of course there is nothing stopping us making it how it was planned.......

[losichris]

I think we should open up a 2m x 2m and maybe a metre deep bomb hole in front of the rostrum.
This would be a great feature as you can dive into it, and ramp up the other side, like at RHR. Wouldnt be a hard task.
Lift the astro, dig a hole, and nail the astro back down :drool:

[Gavin Collingwood]

Well you would need more astro as if you go up or down the astro has more area to stretch over and cover. That sounds a cool idea too what you reckon about the two whoop jumps a small one followed by a bigger one. It's like a rhythm section where the car flows over each jump

[losichris]

Well you would need more astro as if you go up or down the astro has more area to stretch over and cover. That sounds a cool idea too what you reckon about the two whoop jumps a small one followed by a bigger one. It's like a rhythm section where the car flows over each jump

I think any kind of track update would be good.
It needs something else, as we race there week in week out and tracks are getting very similar.
Maybe we can arrange a work party for Feb/March next year, when hopefully there isnt any snow.

[Gavin Collingwood]

To be honest Chris your most likely to get snow in jan/ feb. if the weather carries on like this it would be possible as its still very mild for the time of year. Obviously digging ect would be difficult when it's frozen

[Big Show]

I think digging a bomb hole in front of the rostrum or any hole for that matter is a bad idea. The track gets water logged after heavy persistant rain and thierfore would be more like a swimming pool. Some of the other ideas sound good.

[budfish]

It's crap because its a single surface and flatter than a lady boys chest!!!����

[johnnygibbon]

So we're in general agreement that the bowling green with dead hamsters buried under it needs turning into a proper off road track
I reckon there's funds
But is there enough willing grafters
There's normally only a bout three people to ten people's job
Bomb holes could be tricky with bury weather
But reshaping some of the features or laying over the top in concrete cobbles or flags would work

C'mon committee listen to your members
We love bury club
But the track is getting beyond boring
Good for learners then two months later when they can drive better they are bored to
Table tops
Doubles
Triples
Wall rides
Drop offs
Step ups
Berms
Off camber
On camber
Brick berms
Tarmac sections
Grassy sections
Kickers
Sweepers
Death or glory
Big air
Power power power
Drift drift drift

Like the old track was
Fun exciting and challenging

Please

[Gavin Collingwood]

Yeah bomb hole =bomb pool. Well first off the bat I'm in so there's 1. We need need a show of genuine helpers. (If we're given the go ahead obviously)

[losichris]

count me in

[Chris Elworthy]

I'll stick my gardening gloves on!

[Si Coe]

Numbers isn't really the problem (well its part of it!) - what matters is skills. Once we start work we are committed to completing it - and lifting that astro is no easy task so whatever we do needs to be right first time.

Therefore what is needed is not just helpers but experts and a project leader. We need a proper design, a single person who will have oversight for the whole project and people who know what they are doing. Someone who knows about astroturf, about jumps, about track design etc.

It won't work just to get a few people down one weekend, knock up a bombhole, then some others another time to do a set of doubles etc. All you'll end up with is a badly designed mess that doesn't flow at all. As has already been said some of the current features suffer already from having been done by builder not racers.

So - we are back where we always end up on this subject. There is no objection in theory to some redesign work, but it needs to be just that - a redesign not just slapping in some random bits. And that means it needs a project leader. If someone is up for that role we can start the ball moving.....

[Gavin Collingwood]

Well the most experienced driver at the club is woody and since he designed the new track originally (albeit then not built as originally designed by the builders) I'm sure he would know what would work and what wouldn't so prob best to bring up the ideas with him tomorrow and see if he'll help?

[budfish]

Well the most experienced driver at the club is woody and since he designed the new track originally (albeit then not built as originally designed by the builders) I'm sure he would know what would work and what wouldn't so prob best to bring up the ideas with him tomorrow and see if he'll help?

That's exactly why he should stay well clear. Just let Johnny go nuts and it'll be fine

[The race controller]

Watch this video:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=roTBwM59Yzg

BUT you'll notice there's not much variation with these permanent features. so the layout can't change much.....just like boring cars.
Sorry Chris.

[johnnygibbon]

Hmm astro covered jumps look good
and I see ya point but there track hasn't got as much space as ours even enlarging or reshaping what we got would help
Any one on here got any track design or even cad design experience
We could get some 3d plans of features to give us an idea
Photoshop em In we can see how they fit

Sis right if we do it
We do it properly

[Gavin Collingwood]

To be fair roger that's a permanent track isn't it? Our track is huge and there's plenty of things you could built but the variation comes with the placement of the features and the orientation, I.e if you put them in corners or right against the edges then you're restricted. Surely it can't be too hard to build them? You bring a car and try it as you build

[blue_pinky]

Hi Bury,

Spotted your chat about track design, and although I'm not involved in any way with your club, I have been involved in building a new track in Weston (WORM in the South West) over the last few months, so have an idea of what your going through, both on the design front and the manpower and effort!

Prepping to build ours we spent a lot of time looking at other tracks: oople, youtube, UK, US, Europe, japan. I have been doing nationals and picked up many ideas from what are supposidly some of the best tracks in the country.

Our main design goal was to create something that had no hard edges, no obstacles and no geometrically engineered shapes. We specifically did not want to make a touring car track with 'features' (like in that vid above!), or an indoor track outdoors. They can look really nice and well dressed, but are not really offroad IMO.

We tried to create a landscaped and shaped OFFROAD area that could have track markings laid anywhere in any direction, that offers smooth transitions between lumps, banks, bumps, camber changes and elevation changes. Something that makes the most of (and enhances) the natural features that the area we had already possessed. We also then planned in a few areas that would offer jump opportunities if the track was laid correctly, but that even then those features could be run and used with variation.

That was the goal, and we're still finding out how well we've done, but the signs so far are good, and the feedback has been great so we're quietly confident we've achieved some of our goals...so far!

If I could offer any design advice...Features that make you slow to a crawl so you can make them without crashing are not racing features, they are obstacles...it's offroad racing...not rock crawling, and we all want to go fast when we're racing!!!

Think beyond the normal jumps and table tops (although having a bit of that is obviously cool!), and think shapes! Shapes and camber make for technical challenge without severely punishing driving mistakes...this not only makes for fun tracks and better racing, but less marshalling too...and we know how much we all dislike marshalling, and being marshalled ;)

Anyway, good luck, I look forward to seeing the fruits of your labours :)

[Howler]

I have to agree with the general consensus here that we do need more "features" of some sort. I would be more than willing to pitch in and help.

[Gavin Collingwood]

Well maybe we should have a bit of a chat tomorrow at Oldham because it seems the general consensus is that we all agree that we'd like to change;
A. The current features that it seems we've not been happy with from the start (banked bend etc) and
B. add some new features to give it more character

[Chris Elworthy]

We need more track building experience for me, somebody to take charge and keep things moving. If we start hacking away at the astro without proper guidance we could end up making more of a mess.
That said, if we can get it well planned out it will definitely improve the track no end.

Chris

[Howler]

Definitely needs discussion, but if the team of builders who've never seen an RC track before can build what we already have, then i'm sure we can improve on it. I remember building the old double coming off the brickwork on the old track's back straight. Main memory is that it astro packed with sand is REALLY heavy.

We'd need to know what to use underneath for adequate drainage, some grade of gravel i guess, but it has to not move when it's walked on.

We also need to know where to get the same astro as the rest of the track, and the cost of it.

Other than that we need to design and agree on the new features. Get your sketch pads out, and we can all discuss it. Need to keep in mind that all features need to be drivable by kids, and avoid dips and holes where water would collect.

[Gavin Collingwood]

Like I said we should discuss it tomorrow at some point through the day

[Gavin Collingwood]

Would it be builders sand?

[budfish]

:thumbdown::thumbdown:Hmm astro covered jumps look good
and I see ya point but there track hasn't got as much space as ours even enlarging or reshaping what we got would help
Any one on here got any track design or even cad design experience
We could get some 3d plans of features to give us an idea
Photoshop em In we can see how they fit

Sis right if we do it
We do it properly

:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumb down::thumbdown::thumbdown:

[Si Coe]

We need more track building experience for me, somebody to take charge and keep things moving. If we start hacking away at the astro without proper guidance we could end up making more of a mess.
That said, if we can get it well planned out it will definitely improve the track no end.

Chris

This is the key point.
The truth is we already have a good track. Ok, so some members are after some changes, but the track we have does work.
More than a few people have told me that the old tracks big jump down by the cabin is what nearly killed Bury club. People got annoyed with the breakages and stopped coming, to the point when Buds, Johnny and I joined there were about a half dozen racers.
Ill thought out features, especially jumps can kill a track. The old Keighley tracks massive double was a 'do or die' feature some loved and some hated.

The message is clear - just don't f*ck it up!

[tisher]

I thought Stu originally designed the track we have now and the builders built it to his specification. You would have a hell of a lot of work to rebuild the track we have and even if you laid down loads of permanent fixtures they would soon get boring as well..
Surely it would be quicker and more cost effective to make some really nice jumps and features that can be moved around the track and be built and put away easy

[Si Coe]

The track is mostly as designed, but the table top at the far end was meant to be higher and longer with the strange slope in the centre being a wall-ride - and the banked bend much higher.

[Gavin Collingwood]

Stu has told me he designed it but the builders didn't do it how it was supposed to be. Nah temporary jumps are poor, it's not off road it's man made, you may as well race indoor. And si people break cars, not the track. If they don't have the ability to jump properly there's always a safer way to take them (bump slowly over them) and what you said about the jump near the cabin is rubbish that was part of the track for years and years, end of the day if you don't want to break your car then it's simple..... Slow the **** down.

[tisher]

Stu has told me he designed it but the builders didn't do it how it was supposed to be. Nah temporary jumps are poor, it's not off road it's man made, you may as well race indoor. And si people break cars, not the track. If they don't have the ability to jump properly there's always a safer way to take them (bump slowly over them) and what you said about the jump near the cabin is rubbish that was part of the track for years and years, end of the day if you don't want to break your car then it's simple..... Slow the **** down.


So is sticking cobbles down etc.. its all man made:confused: once you build a permanent type track there is only so many ways you can set it out so it would still get boring where as if you build movable decent jumps humps or what ever there is millions of ways of integrating them in to what we already have

[Gavin Collingwood]

I've never said I'd like cobbles, for me all astro is fine. It just needs fast bumpy sections, level changes, whoop jumps just a few more features to make it more like it used to be rather than it being too flat as it is right now. There's quite a lot of other people with the same opinion so I must have a point...

[Si Coe]

I've never said I'd like cobbles, for me all astro is fine. It just needs fast bumpy sections, level changes, whoop jumps just a few more features to make it more like it used to be rather than it being too flat as it is right now. There's quite a lot of other people with the same opinion so I must have a point...


People always want what they don't have
As I said, we were all set to put in some paving a few months back but then I got into a conversation with the Southport committee and found their members were asking to astro over their hard surfaces due to tyre wear. You can't please everyone - and the most vocal people tend to be those not currently pleased.

I know drivers break cars not the track, but you know what - if they break their car for whatever reason, go home and don't come back thats a member lost. A harsh reality of our current racing scene is that, whilst its full of people who raced at Bury years ago very few have been back for even 2 years. New members are the clubs lifeblood. In addition, many of the returnee's are now parents, so the track should be newbie and kiddie friendly. That means even a bad driver shouldn't break too much stuff!

People leave the club for money or family reasons - not because of the track. But if the track isn't accessible to the new people that replace them numbers dwindle and the club dies.

[Gavin Collingwood]

Si you seem very negative about this. Once again I will say it. I've never said anything about concrete or cobbles

[Si Coe]

Si you seem very negative about this. Once again I will say it. I've never said anything about concrete or cobbles

Not negative, just tired! (due to baby before anyone takes offense)

We've had the conversation a lot of times already. After weighing up all the factors we normally end up back where we started!
Stu's initial idea remains sound - we just don't work it properly. The question is do we change the track to how we can work it, or change how we work to the track?

[tisher]

Si you seem very negative about this. Once again I will say it. I've never said anything about concrete or cobbles


we not saying that is what you are suggesting that was just an example of a permanent fixture.. All I was suggesting is that it would be a hell of a lot of work just to put some more humps or dips in when you could build movable ones that would be just as good and could be moved around. Where as if its under the astro once you have raced it half a dozen times it would get boring to... I quite like whats there at the moment I dont think its any flatter than alot of clubs I have raced at outside this year

[Gavin Collingwood]

To be honest thinking about it I'd like a bumpy section more than anything and I don't think it would get boring as ther could be a number of ways you could build it and or run the track on it and it would be the easiest to build and cheapest. What do we think?

[Si Coe]

I think another summer like the last one and we'll have a bumpy section without having to do any track lifting!
The old track was very bumpy, Southport is too - so having a bumpy section makes sense. However we'll have to do something to 'mark out' that section for track building or it will get lost - bigger features are clear visible when laying hose but bumps not so much.

[johnnygibbon]

Bumps yeah
Proper jumps Definatly
Looks like goshen is due some updates and hopefully we can improve on what the builders have left using what we no about racing on the track
It's a good space with unique astro and it does race ok , but some new exciting features and reshaping and repairing of current ones will only improve it

[Gavin Collingwood]

Si you're on the commitee, get the ball rolling

[Si Coe]

I've also got a son who is less than a month old! The only reason I'm on here quite a bit is I can Oople on my phone whilst holding him.
I'm most certainly not the person for this job.....

[Gavin Collingwood]

No but you're part of the commitee who can influence other committee members

[johnnygibbon]

It's not just sis job all the rest of the committee will help any way
I reckon they will ant some changes or extras like we do
But organising and actually building what we wants gonna be a task

But at least there's plenty of enthusiastic helpers and ideas coming
Where's Coleman to?
Keeping very quiet in this subject
C'mon matt are you secretly designing new track features on ya works computer
I have a few ideas
Maybe a little meeting is needed
Or another model like woody made

[Si Coe]

No but you're part of the commitee who can influence other committee members

Cheers Gavin :lol: Thats the best laugh I've had all day! Like anyone listens to me......

Seriously though - anyone fancy drawing up a plan view of the current track and sticking it on here so folks can have a play at adding stuff?

One thing that struck me is that right now we have clear track for a straight on both sides. If we start adding features we are likely to encroach on one or other of these - they are the best spaces we have to work with. Normally we build the track with the straight on the far side but as a result I feel we don't always use the rostrum side as effectively. Where would people prefer to have the straight?

[Darren Wales]

All,
I have been reading with interest this thread and what pleases me is the clear passion we have from quite a few members. This is a healthy position to be in. :)

Firstly, we as a club are always open to ideas on improving. We as the committee are there to take on board these ideas, discuss and decide on ways to improve the club.

As Simon has said before this post, we have been discussing ideas for some time now. What we really need is actual drawn plans, costings for materials and an idea of how long such improvements would take. Once we have this information, we the committee will approve, provided it is in the interests of the club as a whole. The current financial position of the club is good and it will be for the whole committee to agree on spending funds, not just Roger. (although he remains the key figure at the club)

I can see that ALL the comments on here are in the interests of the club, but what is the clubs biggest hurdle is the gathering of the manpower needed to carry out these such ideas and plans.

As for any ideas on adding more features, it is my personal view that the most efficient way of adding bumpy sections or similar would be to purchase additional astro-turf, of any type, to lay over any added feature and fix down, clearly one new feature at a time would avoid ruining the versatility of the track as is.

Darren
Chairman BMRCC

p.s i am awaiting further update from the council and our friends at the cycle- speedway on the external works, so will update as soon as i get further. ;)

[Gavin Collingwood]

Yeah si we gotta keep the back straight as its huge! I was thinking of the area I front of the rostrum for a big jump table top. You could even do it so it was a three way table top to add to the versatility? So imagine how the ramp thing in the top left of the track looks but imagine another ramp opposite to the ramp that goes down towards the straight. This way there would be countless ways you could set up on it. This way You could go bank to bank in the standard table top direction from right to left or left to right as you stand looking at the track from the rostrum or you could go from the left or right banks to the bank going away from you as you're stood on the rostrum
Here's something similar
http://www.f-bomproducts.com/wiki/images/e/e0/TableTop_web.jpg

[Darren Wales]

Yeah si we gotta keep the back straight as its huge! I was thinking of the area I front of the rostrum for a big jump table top. You could even do it so it was a three way table top to add to the versatility? So imagine how the ramp thing in the top left of the track looks but imagine another ramp opposite to the ramp that goes down towards the straight. This way there would be countless ways you could set up on it. This way You could go bank to bank in the standard table top direction from right to left or left to right as you stand looking at the track from the rostrum or you could go from the left or right banks to the bank going away from you as you're stood on the rostrum
Here's something similar
http://www.f-bomproducts.com/wiki/images/e/e0/TableTop_web.jpg

Gavin, I do like this. Where would be your idea it should be positioned on the current track. Your explanation is not clear. :eh?:

Starting in the centre of the track as you look from on top of the rostrum ,How many paces/feet away from the rostrum forward and how many left or right?

:)

[Gavin Collingwood]

If you were on the rostrum I'd have it directly in front of the rostrum as you can get the best view of the car jumping from bank to bank with the lowest chance of crashing as you can see both landing and take off clearly. And if you're looking at the drawing the rostrum would be behind it. It would have to be a few feet on as you don't want it right next to the fence but it can't be too far on as it would interfere with the dome in the centre of the track. I think it would work brilliantly as it could work if four different possible ways
1. Right to left bank
2. Left to right bank
3. Right to centre bank
4. Left to centre bank

[Si Coe]

That makes sense. Every time we've used Rog's massive tabletop its been located there, so its got to be a good choice.

Only issue I can see is that its right in front of the race control window. This means the timing loop will need to be located elsewhere - not in itself an issue as there is plenty of coax so the loop does not need to be in front. The problem comes if the computer starts playing up again because you can't do manual count if you can't see the line. Nothing major though.

[Darren Wales]

I can see that.

What sort of height would you suggest? (Johnny before you say 6ft+, not going to happen! lol)

We could simply use earth and hardcore to shape it before overlaying with new astro, I guess.

[johnnygibbon]

ok 5ft but on fire hahaha
but seriously i think its more about the shape and transition of the take off and angle and length of landing the jump could be 2 or 3 ft high max but if it had a nice long curved take off the car would fly well allowing it to be controlled in the air and a good landing angle helps stop any harsh landings and car breakages
kinda like the old jump out of the brick berm at far back right corner
a slightly bigger version of that would work it wasnt a car breaker but still gave you some airtime
thats the problem with the current features imo the quad jumps are just about jumpable but very very tricky to do
if they were a bit biggerand slighty wider spaced the bigger take off and landing would mean cars would flow a lot better and we would have some exciting motox style racing rather than cars crashing and rolling over them
they were designed to be jumps not speed bumps ,
simaler with iron cross but i actually think this works quite well on the whole
the centre circle was meant to be bigger with a dish in the middle .i still think paving or tarmacing this would be good
and areshape of the back berm /tabletop would be getting things back to woodys original design
excited for bmrcc track updates now boys

[The race controller]

[QUOTE=Si Coe;717069]That makes sense. Every time we've used Rog's massive tabletop its been located there, so its got to be a good choice.

By calling it a "massive" tabletop, is this the reason it doesn't get used?
You all said you wanted it big but if now it's too big then we can take the saw to it and reduce it in height.
The holes in the side have been enlarged to cater for the warped beams and easier assembly but you've still not used it.

Think on.

[Gavin Collingwood]

Two reason why they don't use it...
1. It takes ages to build
2. More importantly it's not right, too harsh and not smooth enough

We don't need this new table top to be huge you've seen how much height we get from those wooden kickers, it's all about the length of take off and landing and the smoothness of the transition and also the length has to be correct, there's no point getting big air if you're landing to flat and bottoming out. So as we're building it we need to test it with a car as you go, that's the only way you'll get it right

[Howler]

What's under the astro for the current features? I know some of them have moved a little. My worry with building them with gravel underneath is that they will move. I've build a lot of mountain bike/bmx jumps from clay heavy dirt, and they always need maintaining annually anyway. One of the tricks we always used was to use a log at the lip of the jump, keeps the material from crumbling at the lip.

Maintaining them under astro is always going to be a pain, so how coule we make them permanent? Concrete is the obvious solution, but even under astro, its a very hard surface, but it's no porous so it wont turn into a squidgy mess or move gradually as thousands of buggies hit it over the season.

Thoughts?

Also, a lot of talk about a project manager. I was a little bit reluctant to admit it, but i am a project manager by trade, although an IT one. If people like i can project manage this, build a plan, assign people tasks, manage the budget, purchasing etc. All that may be OTT, but again, what do you think?

[Gavin Collingwood]

That sounds superb, I think it's a great idea. Like I've said all along I'm always available to help and give my opinion on things
Gav

[Si Coe]

That makes sense. Every time we've used Rog's massive tabletop its been located there, so its got to be a good choice.

By calling it a "massive" tabletop, is this the reason it doesn't get used?
You all said you wanted it big but if now it's too big then we can take the saw to it and reduce it in height.
The holes in the side have been enlarged to cater for the warped beams and easier assembly but you've still not used it.

Think on.

Its a faff to build, and when it rains its far too slippery. Yes I know you've coated it to solve the later but by then people had given up. Remember I mostly put the track away not get it out!

And it is massive. There is no other way to describe it. Its the largest non-fixed purpose built (as opposed to assembled from table tennis tables) ramp I've seen anywhere. But that doesn't mean its 'too big' when used correctly.

[Darren Wales]

What's under the astro for the current features? I know some of them have moved a little. My worry with building them with gravel underneath is that they will move. I've build a lot of mountain bike/bmx jumps from clay heavy dirt, and they always need maintaining annually anyway. One of the tricks we always used was to use a log at the lip of the jump, keeps the material from crumbling at the lip.

Maintaining them under astro is always going to be a pain, so how coule we make them permanent? Concrete is the obvious solution, but even under astro, its a very hard surface, but it's no porous so it wont turn into a squidgy mess or move gradually as thousands of buggies hit it over the season.

Also, a lot of talk about a project manager. I was a little bit reluctant to admit it, but i am a project manager by trade, although an IT one. If people like i can project manage this, build a plan, assign people tasks, manage the budget, purchasing etc. All that may be OTT, but again, what do you think?


Steve,

I personally don't think this is a bad idea. As we know the issue we actually have is not a desire as a club to further improve the track, which is of course by no way the finished article, just the difficulty with planning and organising!
Funds are good, as all that attended the AGM will know.

As I said in my previous post, we need to take things in stages, to ensure we don't overdo the changes and ruin what is still at present a good track.

If you are willing to step up and project manage this, you certainly have my vote.

Can I ask all my other committee members their views on this suggestion please?

(I will pm them all too!)

Darren

[Gavin Collingwood]

Definitely think the way to go is the three way table top that I proposed that would be the most versatile feature and would just take the track to a better level

[The race controller]

Its a faff to build, and when it rains its far too slippery. Yes I know you've coated it to solve the later but by then people had given up. Remember I mostly put the track away not get it out!

And it is massive. There is no other way to describe it. Its the largest non-fixed purpose built (as opposed to assembled from table tennis tables) ramp I've seen anywhere. But that doesn't mean its 'too big' when used correctly.

So the "OLD MAN" has to show you youngsters how to build it then. As I've said before I can put it up by myself so it's saying a lot for you lot.
If you can't drive it then what hope do we have of "improving" the track. It's going to end up like the old track when 2 or 3 people who couldn't do the double, that it had taken 2 days to build, to turn up on a Saturday and flatten it to a featureless rise.
Then there's the situation of "the concrete bank wears the tyres, let's cover it with Astro".
What happened to the painting that we decided to do to highlight the features we've got?
Come to think of it, what happened to the work party that was going to paint the rostrum fence. We've had the paint for months but each time I go into the container the cans have been shifted.
Sounds to me that there are a few whingers trying to influence a majority who turn up to race whatever the track.

[Gavin Collingwood]

Its a big Big no to concrete from me. All these things didn't happen roger as there's no organisation. If Steve project manages surely its a start

[johnnygibbon]

Excellent work boys this is wha bmrcc needs I will obviously help but as my work is random and i could bd here for a week and then london or wherever I cannot commit to an official role as I don't want to let people down
Steve I'm happy to work with you as an junior project manager though so your not doing I all alone
I also have big experience with building dirt jumps and trails and also wood ramps and equipment so I understandthe shapes and sizes of jumps and how they have to built
I can get the guys who built Radcliffe concrete sk8 park to help out a bit to
Maybe with the design and or build
Although he may want a small payment if he does any serious designs or work
But this would not be silly money I think the expertise especially in the design stage would save any mess ups afterwards in the building stage
Underneath the astro is road plannings I think either a little concrete or even chicken wire or mesh wrapped over , some way of stopping them moving and sagging like it had done on the back tabletop berm would help
Reshaping and adding a couple of proper features to this track will do wonders
So Steves project manager
I'm his unofficial junior ( I will send my number )
An other volonteers we still need to pair loads of metalwork an I ain't doing it on my own
And we need to find someone who can refix astro
But I think I might no someone for that
Positive things are happening lets keep ip the good work

[Gavin Collingwood]

Yep I'm in pm me for my number
Gav

[johnnygibbon]

Nothing wrong with concrete bricks paving or Tarmac these work well on off raod tracks
tyre wear happens whatever we race on (admittedly less at bury)
But a little section here or there that changes grip or the racing surface is great fun and challenging and doesn't have to be a car breaker
Again the old block paved berms were Awsome to race on
Stop being tight on tyres gav and get drifting hahaha
Rog I think with a few tweaks to the angles of take off your ramp would work ok
But some bigger better features are needed on track
And we seem to be getting a decent team together to do it

[Gavin Collingwood]

Waste of time, lets concentrate on one thing at a time. Lets build that thre way table top first. Should be the priority

[The race controller]

Waste of time, lets concentrate on one thing at a time. Lets build that thre way table top first. Should be the priority

No way Gav. Priority goes to jobs that we talked about at the AGM.

[Howler]

What we talked about at the AGM isnt a huge amount of work, painting the rostrum just needs plenty of bods, and painting the features with lines across their tops should be very easy.

I see no reason we cant get that done before Christmas if we get enough help. Then after Christmas we can start work on the table-top.

Do we have any suitable paint for the features Roger? I think Johnny has an idea what would work, but we'd be best to test it on a small area out of the way first.

[Br00kie]

I'm happy to steer a paintbrush if that helps. Just let me know when

Steve

[Si Coe]

Ironically I suspect it might help to do a slightly larger project anyway as it gets people out, and we can then use them for other jobs.
For example - its a long way for me to drive to paint a fence, but if we were having a tabletop building session and I'm there you'll soon find I'm useless with a shovel. So to get me out of the way I'll be handed a paintbrush and told to get on.......
Little jobs are the ones that tend to get left till later!

[Gavin Collingwood]

Tell you what you should use for highlighting the features, touch line spray that they use for football pitches. that would work a treat and be much easier to use and would look better too

[fil6907]

That why we need to restructure. Remember this track wasn't built by us, just for us. It was meant to be a lot higher but the builders won't take it above the fence - being taller it would have started earlier and had a more gentle curve. Of course there is nothing stopping us making it how it was planned.......

Can I ask whats wrong with the wooden table top? I think putting a table top in perm on the track would be like the old huge
Hump in the middle of the track which always ended up having to be used as was to big and also
Small kids couldn't see over it!! would also have thought maybe making few more smaller changes if anything and movable unless someone planing on living in a caravan to stop kids going on lol

[Gavin Collingwood]

The wooden table top isn't right, the cars bottom out when they hit it as the angles are so harsh. It's not got smooth transitions that a permanent designed one will have and also if we designed one that was three directions it makes the track open to loads of ideas for tracks.
It would be placed in front of the rostrum and the new track is so big you could easily not use it on the odd occasion if you wanted. But as it would be a three way tabletop as well, you have four different combos of use.

[Si Coe]

TBH entirely honest I'm not sure we need a new table top, after all we've already got 2 corner tabletops as it is. But my understanding of Gav's suggestion is something more like the little one they have at Southport which is also a 3 way- it doesn't need to be anything like as high as our other ones.
I also see it as a 'set of doubles without a gap in between them' ie the whole plan is that good drivers will simply land on the down slope. Slower and less talented drivers will find it easier than doubles though as they can land on the top instead of crashing into the second hump!

There is a certain feeling from some members we need some new bits on the track. If thats what people want - this is the best idea I've heard as its simple, in keeping with the track and the club and really can't hurt.

If we plan the dimensions carefully if people really want Rogers mega tabletop out it should be able to fit over this!

[Gavin Collingwood]

Yeah like I said doesn't need to be huge, those wooden kickers give big air and they're only small. I'd say around 3 ft high would be enough

[The race controller]

Yeah like I said doesn't need to be huge, those wooden kickers give big air and they're only small. I'd say around 3 ft high would be enough

3ft high, Oh, you want it BIGGER than the wooden one then.

[Gavin Collingwood]

Bloody hell roger you grumpy sod. :-)I did say "about" plus why not? 2-3 ft isn't much

[fil6907]

Yes but putting a fixed table top there would the do a few things in my view wen we already have 2 corner tabletops its would in affect be in the middle of what is normally a main straight and i think go back to the old track were that huge hump 9 times out of 10 had to be used do you not think we could maybe alter the large wooden 1 and not only save a lot of money and time then still gave money to maybe add other things .. I just think be far simpler to make the wooden one so people are happy with it little diff by changing the angels abit would only take few people and roger a day or so with bit testing it also because going back to the old track i remember wen they put the double humps on the back straight how much work was involed in somthing so small and then because some people didnt like them mainly rc10 drivers they all moaned and think spending that time and money and there proberly be no great benefit as 50% people will ether moan or not really care and get on with it... I think if angels need to be changed on older one be far easier and to be honest would be better to make a model of what is planed to see how people react to it

[fil6907]

Also just quick point but if thinking of making the track diff and stand out bring new people why would we be copying somthing from southports track would it not be a better idea to have new ideas of our own if thats the reason we doing it

[4cells]

Last time i was there they tried to build the tabletop but when they tried it they were bashing thier chasis because they left out the strips at the bottom of the up-ramp. I dont think anybody complained at the regionals when it was great.
If the same clowns are going to build a new one out of astroturf then god help you.

[fil6907]

Last time i was there they tried to build the tabletop but when they tried it they were bashing thier chasis because they left out the strips at the bottom of the up-ramp. I dont think anybody complained at the regionals when it was great.
If the same clowns are going to build a new one out of astroturf then god help you.

think that says it all really lol

[The race controller]

Last time i was there they tried to build the tabletop but when they tried it they were bashing thier chasis because they left out the strips at the bottom of the up-ramp. I dont think anybody complained at the regionals when it was great.
If the same clowns are going to build a new one out of astroturf then god help you.

Well said Mr 4 Cells. Nice to know spectators know what's going on.

[Gavin Collingwood]

What table tops in the corners?! They're aren't jumps? Theyre just level changes, The majority of people seem to want this. And the old track the hump in the middle was fantastic. In fact the old track was fantastic.

[Gavin Collingwood]

Also just quick point but if thinking of making the track diff and stand out bring new people why would we be copying somthing from southports track would it not be a better idea to have new ideas of our own if thats the reason we doing it

Also if you look at the drawing I posted back in the thread I don't recall southport having a three way table top do you?....

[The race controller]

What table tops in the corners?! They're aren't jumps? Theyre just level changes, The majority of people seem to want this. And the old track the hump in the middle was fantastic. In fact the old track was fantastic.

I think you'd better get a dictionary and look up "majority".
Then ask "how many members do we have".

[Si Coe]

Can I make a suggestion?

If the mega tabletop has been fixed, can we take it to the indoor track? There is plenty of room in the store room and many of our previous jumps got a bit of a soaking in the old store so we could do with some more.

We spent a lot of time on the tabletop last weekend and used up the only 4 surviving ramps in the process. Rogers tabletop is quicker to build than that, and would leave the ramps free. Plus covered in carpet it would be a lot less harsh both in terms of transitions and on your chassis.

[Alan Reeves]

+1 for Rogers jump at the indoor track :))

[Gavin Collingwood]

That big table top needs some flexible ply at the bottom of both sides and that would smooth out the transition a bit

[fil6907]

What table tops in the corners?! They're aren't jumps? Theyre just level changes, The majority of people seem to want this. And the old track the hump in the middle was fantastic. In fact the old track was fantastic.

Well again i think your wrong the old hump was used in every race near enough and was boring and small kids who are the future of such a club couldn't see it proper so if we voting as members then i vote againest one as think
If people put the wooden one up proper we wouldn't need 1

[fil6907]

Now this is just a thought and I don't know the logistics of it but I was thinking the outdoor track would be so much better and a lot more character (like the old track or southport) with some more permanant features. My proposal is we build a table top/ whip jumps like Robin Hood raceway in front of the rostrum. I would gladly give up my time to build that as I think the track is a bit bare with very little permant features. What do we think about doing it over winter while the track is not in use? Again I dot know the logistics but want to see if there's a demand which I reckon there is and more importantly who would be up for it?
I think this would boost the club and attract more racers to club meetings

Gavin
Sorry i did read it wrong was Robin Hood we would be copying not southport my mistake

[bigred5765]

Well again i think your wrong the old hump was used in every race near enough and was boring and small kids who are the future of such a club couldn't see it proper so if we voting as members then i vote againest one as think
If people put the wooden one up proper we wouldn't need 1

the old track was night and day better than the new one, there is nothing challenging about the new track at the minuet, don't get me wrong i love the bury track, it just lacks features proof in the pudding why do you think no one comes racing at bury like we all use to,and for those who have already posted about damaging there car on big jumps, OK i see your point but remember it you driving it its up to you to learn how to race of road if all your going to do is drive around on flat tracks so you don't break your cars then your never going to learn anything,and may as well just go run mardaves and be safe,

[fil6907]

It not the breaking or not breaking a car. It's more there not much point in building sumthing perm on the track when there is a wooden one which hasn't been put together right for proper use i raced all over when i was younger and have seen alot diff tracks and think if you use the example of what I put to good use dont copy sumthing make sumat new new ideas all ways better than copying whole point is to make sumthing diff and that takes time but think the use of moveable ramps etc works well indoors so why not outdoors

[Gavin Collingwood]

Well again i think your wrong the old hump was used in every race near enough and was boring and small kids who are the future of such a club couldn't see it proper so if we voting as members then i vote againest one as think
If people put the wooden one up proper we wouldn't need 1

For one. The proposed three way table rope would be directly in front of the rostrum and not in the middle of the track so I do t see how kids could see over a 2-3ft jump from a rostrum that's 10-15ft high?..... And if you mean for marshalling well it would be in front of the rostrum not in the middle of the track...

[Gavin Collingwood]

the old track was night and day better than the new one, there is nothing challenging about the new track at the minuet, don't get me wrong i love the bury track, it just lacks features proof in the pudding why do you think no one comes racing at bury like we all use to,and for those who have already posted about damaging there car on big jumps, OK i see your point but remember it you driving it its up to you to learn how to race of road if all your going to do is drive around on flat tracks so you don't break your cars then your never going to learn anything,and may as well just go run mardaves and be safe,

EXACTLY!! Totally agree

[bigred5765]

i always said ramps/ obstacles don't break cars only poor drivers, it doesn't have to be permanent if there built right but remember if there not fixed or perm someone has to drag them in and out at the beginning and end of the day, not fun if the a descent ramp as they will be big and heavy,

[fil6907]

For one. The proposed three way table rope would be directly in front of the rostrum and not in the middle of the track so I do t see how kids could see over a 2-3ft jump from a rostrum that's 10-15ft high?..... And if you mean for marshalling well it would be in front of the rostrum not in the middle of the track...

Think wooden 1 do same thing just dont see point at all and that's my opinion think there are other things that can be done which would make more improvement

[Gavin Collingwood]

It not the breaking or not breaking a car. It's more there not much point in building sumthing perm on the track when there is a wooden one which hasn't been put together right for proper use i raced all over when i was younger and have seen alot diff tracks and think if you use the example of what I put to good use dont copy sumthing make sumat new new ideas all ways better than copying whole point is to make sumthing diff and that takes time but think the use of moveable ramps etc works well indoors so why not outdoors

If you look at the proposed three way table top
http://www.f-bomproducts.com/wiki/images/e/e0/TableTop_web.jpg
I've not seen a jump like this at any other local track so your argument is totally flawed...

[bigred5765]

Think wooden 1 do same thing just don't see point at all and that's my opinion think there are other things that can be done which would make more improvement

i agree that a wooden one would do the same job just remember you just volunteered to move it in and out every day lol:p

[bigred5765]

If you look at the proposed three way table top
http://www.f-bomproducts.com/wiki/images/e/e0/TableTop_web.jpg
I've not seen a jump like this at any other local track so your argument is totally flawed...

southport have a mini version of that

[fil6907]

i always said ramps/ obstacles don't break cars only poor drivers, it doesn't have to be permanent if there built right but remember if there not fixed or perm someone has to drag them in and out at the beginning and end of the day, not fun if the a descent ramp as they will be big and heavy,

EXACTLY!! Totally agree

Weather a driver is poor or good doesnt make any diff and like i said you will have people may agree or disagree and if put to a vote i disagree think again copying sumthing rather than think of sumthing new is boring and waste of time and money

[Si Coe]

the old track was night and day better than the new one, there is nothing challenging about the new track at the minuet, don't get me wrong i love the bury track, it just lacks features proof in the pudding why do you think no one comes racing at bury like we all use to,and for those who have already posted about damaging there car on big jumps, OK i see your point but remember it you driving it its up to you to learn how to race of road if all your going to do is drive around on flat tracks so you don't break your cars then your never going to learn anything,and may as well just go run mardaves and be safe,


Thing is Carl people do come to the new track, just not when there are meetings on. Not that they came to the old track that much for club meets either - leastways not in the last couple of years.
Stu's no idiot - he knows well enough that several local F1's have been testing at our track. Its part of the reason behind the 'stealth' layout - the theory is that if its a blank canvas except on race days the only way to test on it is at a meeting. Clearly its not blank enough yet!

As for the rest - like I said earlier, the current most regularly attended club in the region isn't us, or Southport, its Ribble Valley where they do run Mardaves! It seems that despite having two outdoor clubs with modern astro tracks in the area 50+ people a week want to race on a carpet track with a couple of small ramps.

[fil6907]

Thing is Carl people do come to the new track, just not when there are meetings on. Not that they came to the old track that much for club meets either - leastways not in the last couple of years.
Stu's no idiot - he knows well enough that several local F1's have been testing at our track. Its part of the reason behind the 'stealth' layout - the theory is that if its a blank canvas except on race days the only way to test on it is at a meeting. Clearly its not blank enough yet!

As for the rest - like I said earlier, the current most regularly attended club in the region isn't us, or Southport, its Ribble Valley where they do run Mardaves! It seems that despite having two outdoor clubs with modern astro tracks in the area 50+ people a week want to race on a carpet track with a couple of small ramps.
I've raced at bury since was 13 on and off iam now 35 and in all those years bury has never been a huge club it's always had people wanting make it so and i totally agree with the above there was alot time and effort put in to the new track design and stu been racing buggys along time and think any change should be somthing small or new idea all together cause if i wanted to jump a table top i would go to Robin Hood

[Si Coe]

Oh, and I've also been told (from several different sources I might add which gives it some credence) that the reason said drivers don't come to the meets isn't the track (why test on it if its that bad?) but the members. Specifically that the club has too many kids and bashers and not enough serious racers.

To which I can only reply - Amen to that! New drivers are the future, anyone who avoids a club because its got so many of them isn't someone I'd be wanting around anyway no matter who they are supposed by.....

[johnnygibbon]

But still old or new racer alike we all no bmrcc needs some better airtime and a decent permanent jump
Constant progression inline with our sport
Lets get a ump build
Old and new will love it

[rob m]

how about raising the height of the circle we have to about 2ft maybe more? (making sure cars can be seen if we use back straight) if we put a table top in front of the rostrum then its limiting the full use of the track e.g can only have straight in one place. thats the reason why the track is the way it is, no limits to track designs. the old track had about 4 layouts which got boring to club members who raced weekly. A problem i think the new track has that gives the impression of being 'boring' is that its not very interesting to look at, its just a sea of green! .

[Gavin Collingwood]

Yeah that's a good idea would be reasonably easy. After speaking to roger on Sunday he showed me plans to alter the current wooden table top by lengthening it and smoothing out the landings and take off and also covering it with a new piece of astro solving the problem with rain and grip

[rob m]

Yeah that's a good idea would be reasonably easy. After speaking to roger on Sunday he showed me plans to alter the current wooden table top by lengthening it and smoothing out the landings and take off and also covering it with a new piece of astro solving the problem with rain and grip
i thought of in idea for smoothing the take off and landings after roger mentioned his idea to us on sunday. we could add some 1/4" ply wood to the take off and landing to create a curve and cut the ends that join the ramp to the astro like a comb to follow the contours of the ground so no part is stuck up in the air to damage cars.

[Gavin Collingwood]

Yeah good idea, it defo needs lengthening though as you have to slow down too much to hit the down ramp, if you hit it at even a moderate speed you can clear it to flat (not good for the car ha) so I reckon another board lie roger said and that would do it, and that would be one monster tabletop!

[johnnygibbon]

good idea rob , making the features like the circle bigger and bettere will add loads to the track, the lengthening idea is good but the take off needs to be steeper and ideally slightly curved
but with some tweaks and obviously proper flight testing it will be great

[Alan Reeves]

good idea rob , making the features like the circle bigger and bettere will add loads to the track, the lengthening idea is good but the take off needs to be steeper and ideally slightly curved
but with some tweaks and obviously proper flight testing it will be great

I think the steeper curved take off is a better idea than lengthening the ramp, the ramp is about the right size I think, it just needs a few tweaks.

[Gavin Collingwood]

Spoke to woody about the ramp I agree, he says its too short in length for the size and angle of the takeoff, hence why you have to slow down too much to land bank to bank, otherwise you jump too far too easliy and land past the downramp and smack to floor.
The angle and size of take off doesnt need touching it just needs lengthening. If its lengthened (which is what roger is going to do to it) then you don't have to slow down so much to jumpt it correctly and effectively flattens the jump a bit too. It'll still be BIG air though :-)
Also the take off and landings will be smoother with the flexible ply fitted and the astro will be rolled out over the top and would finish it off nicely.

[johnnygibbon]

Modifying the wooden jumps all good
And I think angle and length need tweaking

But back to the permenant features , we are still doing a bit to the track itself ain't we
Are we gonna need extra hardcore and if so how much , I will try and draw some designs up this week
They will be pen and paper but at least they will show shape and dimension of stuff

[Gavin Collingwood]

Talk to roger about it,

[Darren Wales]

Modifying the wooden jumps all good
And I think angle and length need tweaking

But back to the permenant features , we are still doing a bit to the track itself ain't we
Are we gonna need extra hardcore and if so how much , I will try and draw some designs up this week
They will be pen and paper but at least they will show shape and dimension of stuff

Johnny, by all means draw some designs, but please if you can, add some coatings. Then, if I could ask you to pass them on to Steve (howler) who is pulling together all that is being considered, this would be much appreciated.

Darren

[johnnygibbon]

nice one darren i will email some scanned pics to steve
been asking my mate to do some computer ones ,hes busy on his computer with sk8 parks at the min but he said he will try
but anything to give us an idea of shape and size should help us see what we dealing with
we could even use cardboard and tape to make a dummy and see how it sits on the track before we go all in