More steering on C4.1

[Mowen208fly]

Racing Centro on tight indoor track with a mix of carpet and slippery floor and need to get more steering out of the car have the brass bulk head and Avid steering bell cranks and with big bore shocks on red springs and 35weight oil set to inner hole on arms and middle hole on shock towers and 1 washer under links! with staggered ribs ! Any Ideas?

[MiCk B.]

Hi,

Can you post your full set-up.

It could be the rear of the car generating too much side bite / traction.

MiCk B. :-)

[Mowen208fly]

This is the setup I have been using
http://www.cmldistribution.co.uk/product/C0001/setups/C4%201_G%20Stanton%20Caldicot%20Nov%202011.pdf

[Matt Butcher]

25deg castor would give you more initial steering. is it initial steering your lacking? also whats the diff like? a bad diff can cause major handling issues hth's

[Mowen208fly]

initial steering is what it is lacking the diff is fine rebuilt with carbide diff balls and not over tight or to loose!

[blue_pinky]

If it's just at that venue your lacking, maybe try some mini pin front tyres too?

[Mowen208fly]

Andy
You could be right as at Worm it is fine but struggles when the track gets tight and twisty.

[cornishboy176]

Mine was exactly the same,no front end grip on carpet with staggered ribs,

All I did was add an extra 1mm spacer on the ball stud links on the shock tower,now it is lot better on initial turn in,also -1 camber on front and 32.5 wt shock oil (35wt if quite warm indoors)

HTH

[Mowen208fly]

Iian
That is how I had it yesterday at Yatton and it was almost there someone in a reply above said about rear grip and It is producing loads of that so I think I need to just losses the rear end up abit!

[cornishboy176]

Hiya here is my set up from Yatton

Rear 30wt losi oil losi BB Pink spring (top 2nd hole out)

Front 35wt losi oil losi BB Green spring (try 32.5w if colder room temp) (top middle hole)

Medium wheel base

2 degree Anti Squat (less side traction which should aid front)

30 degree caster blocks (more steering entering corners less exiting corners)

2mm spacers under front ballstud link (initial turn in)

2nd hole down rear camber link

Brass Bulkhead

10g weight under bellcranks and 2 x 5g weights between 3 posts and servo

Rear Yellow Minipins

Front Yellow Cut Staggers no inserts

HTH

Any Questions please just ask

[KennyClark]

Run the rear camber link in the shortest upper hole.
Remove all washers from under front ballstud to make the steering more aggressive.

[cornishboy176]

Run the rear camber link in the shortest upper hole.
Remove all washers from under front ballstud to make the steering more aggressive.


Ok i can agree with the first bit of advice but surely by taking washers out,wouldnt that decrease front end grip?

Or am i wrong?

[neallewis]

No, more washers decreases front end bite, less increases it.

not sure what tyres are being run, other than stagger ribs? Run mini spikes on wide ae wheels, scrubbed in and used, new are a bit useless until they are worn in.

alternatively run yellow minipins again on wide rims. I prefer them with the outer row of pins removed, as this helps with the aggressive nature if the tyres when swapping from low grip floor to high grip carpet.

Obviously front tyre choice to match rears being used. Don't mix pins/spikes front/rear.


You could also try a some weight under the cranks and around servo, if you don't have it.

The issue is solved mostly with tyres. Wide wheels are less aggressive (over narrow Centro wheels) and make it easier to drive. Stagger ribs just don't work in the carpet/Slippy floor tracks I race at.

[highlander]

on rear roll ctrs

this is taken from hudy set up guide

upper holls on tower or adding washers under ball stud = lower roll ctr
affects are
• Decreases rear traction into corner
• Increases steering into corner
• Use to avoid traction rolling mid-corner and corner exit

[cornishboy176]

Glad you agree Highlander

This is straight from the hudy set up guide aswell


EFFECTS OF FRONT ROLL CENTER ADJUSTMENT
FRONT UPPER CAMBER LINK - SHOCKTOWER
Upper holes (lower roll center)
• Increases steering into corner • Car is more responsive
Lower holes (higher roll center)
• Decreases steering into corner • Car is less responsive
• Use in high-grip conditions

[Freakypen]

Don't agree

[Matt Butcher]

Hiya here is my set up from Yatton

Rear 30wt losi oil losi BB Pink spring (top 2nd hole out)

Front 35wt losi oil losi BB Green spring (try 32.5w if colder room temp) (top middle hole)

Medium wheel base

2 degree Anti Squat (less side traction which should aid front)

30 degree caster blocks (more steering entering corners less exiting corners)

2mm spacers under front ballstud link (initial turn in)

2nd hole down rear camber link

Brass Bulkhead

10g weight under bellcranks and 2 x 5g weights between 3 posts and servo

Rear Yellow Minipins

Front Yellow Cut Staggers no inserts

HTH

Any Questions please just ask


You have your castor explanation around the wrong way.

[KennyClark]

http://www.petitrc.com/reglages/BasicSuspensionTuning/index.html

If you are in any doubt about setup issues then take a look at this guide from Mark Pavidis.
I think he knows what he is talking about.

[Gaz_Stanton]

This is the setup I have been using
http://www.cmldistribution.co.uk/product/C0001/setups/C4%201_G%20Stanton%20Caldicot%20Nov%202011.pdf

If I've understood correctly you've used my Caldicot setup but are using staggers instead of minipins and harder front springs? Both these reduce steering so correcting this should sort it out.
The biggest difference will be the tyres. If still want more then the AE big bore white front spring will be the equivalent to what is on setup sheet.
If still want more then try adding an under servo weight or the C0036 bulkhead weights, although I expect you'll be happy with it once the right tyres and springs are on it! :thumbsup:

[cornishboy176]

This is taken from the Associated RC Cheat Sheet App on my iPhone

I must be wrong then:

Or they don't know what they are talking about:

Less Caster

less steering entering corners
more steering exiting corners

More Caster

more steering entering corners
less steering exiting corners

[Mowen208fly]

If I've understood correctly you've used my Caldicot setup but are using staggers instead of minipins and harder front springs? Both these reduce steering so correcting this should sort it out.
The biggest difference will be the tyres. If still want more then the AE big bore white front spring will be the equivalent to what is on setup sheet.
If still want more then try adding an under servo weight or the C0036 bulkhead weights, although I expect you'll be happy with it once the right tyres and springs are on it! :thumbsup:

Thanks Gaz
Your setups usually fit my driving style well hence why I stole it:blush: just needed a bit more steering and cheers guys have learned a lot today just for this thread round of applause all round!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Gaz_Stanton]

Thanks Gaz
Your setups usually fit my driving style well hence why I stole it:blush:

Not 'stolen'. That's what it's there for. :)

[Richard Lowe]

EFFECTS OF FRONT ROLL CENTER ADJUSTMENT
FRONT UPPER CAMBER LINK - SHOCKTOWER
Upper holes (lower roll center)
• Increases steering into corner • Car is more responsive
Lower holes (higher roll center)
• Decreases steering into corner • Car is less responsive

That's the wrong way round, raising the ballstud lowers the initial RC, gives less initial steering and more on-power.
Lowering the inner ballstud raises the initial RC and increases initial turn-in but reduces exit steering :)

[cornishboy176]

http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t413/polly176/ACB6DD0D-3327-4E78-AC18-F5D19CECF3E1-2350-000001BAA229688A.jpg

Ah right so this Hudy set up book is wrong

[Matt Butcher]

Re Castor - Try it and see what you think ;)

[Richard Lowe]

Ah right so this Hudy set up book is wrong

Yup that bit is ;)

[The Pookster]

Yup that bit is ;)

I think you are saying the same thing, higher inner ballstud position lowers roll centre, the guide calls this upper holes based on the car it's referring to.

[Chrislong]

With any setup parameter there is a sweet spot - any change in any direction away will give a decrease of what it has optimized..... and changing something else may unoptimize what was optimized elsewhere.

Therefore, very much trial and error... every track is different, every 5minute run is different on same track! due to temperature, weather, track wear etc etc etc...

But in a nutshell, have a good general setup starting point & listen to Rich Lowe.. :)

[Col]

But in a nutshell, have a good general setup starting point & listen to Rich Lowe.. :)

Rich has been a massive help to me over the years. As far as I'm aware, he's never been wrong about my setup changes...

[telboy]

Regarding caster (and I may be wrong, so more technically minded rc legends are allowed to shoot me down) I always thought (and this is going back to my F1 days where it was a good tuning aid) more caster equalled less initial turn in but more agressive exiting corners and the oposite for less caster. If we ever needed more turn in on the F1's we always removed a bit of caster for a touch more bite.

And as far as the roll centre and camber links are concerned, the way Rich said is the way I've always been taught. :)