losi 22 set ups

[cryer-evo]

hi all can people put there losi 22 set ups here for astro / carpet

here is mine

Front suspension
Toe +1
Ride height 21mm
Camber -1 deg
Caster 5deg
Kick angle 25deg
Sway bar no
Oil 27.5
Piston 55
Spring black
Spindle type trailing
Shock limiters 2mm
Shock location 2 on tower outside on arm
Bump steer 1mm on spindle
Camber link 2 with no spacers

Rear suspension

Toe 4 deg
Anti squat 3 deg
Roll centre lrc
Ride height 20mm
Camber 2 deg
Rear hub spacing foreword short
Hex width stock
Sway bar no
Oil 22.5
Piston 54
Spring yellow
Shock limiters no
Camber link 1 with 2mm under and E with 2mm under
Shock location 3 on tower/ outside on arm
Battery saddle

Tyres Schumacher yellow cut staggers mid insert front
Schumacher yellow mini spike soft insert rear
http://www.oople.com/forums/images/misc/progress.gif
next time out will be
front oil 37.5 black spring 55 piston
rear oil 32.5 pink spring 54 piston

think it might be to stiff thow

[Ross]

Have a look at the link below. Personally I like Darren's silverstone set up.

http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/SetupSheetsLosiTwentyTwo.html

[cryer-evo]

forgive me i cant find it :eh?:

[Ross]

forgive me i cant find it :eh?:


Lol it's under a different name :)


http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/setuptwentytwo/22_DarrenBloomfield_SRMCC20121110/

[cryer-evo]

lol thanks got it now .also could any one let me know what affect putting spacers under the front camber link on the front does as it would apear most people are running up to 2.5mm

[Chris Elworthy]

It will alter the roll centre of the front. From my experience with the 22 less or no spacer under the inner ball stud will make the front end bite less thus making the car slightly less aggressive in high grip conditions. More spacers under the inner ball stud will do the opposite making the car feel more direct and aggressive.


Chris

[cryer-evo]

got ya thanks

[Chris Elworthy]

It will alter the roll centre of the front. From my experience with the 22 less or no spacer under the inner ball stud will make the front end bite less thus making the car slightly less aggressive in high grip conditions. More spacers under the inner ball stud will do the opposite making the car feel more direct and aggressive.


Chris

[Ron Burgundy]

Mate, doing a good job. Keep asking and discussing cause i find it really interesting to see what other ideas people have, awesome to have different outlooks! Cheers

[cryer-evo]

For got to add to my set up the only weight I run is the cream one

[vrooom]

I didnt realise adding spacer inside would incease the "grip" on front end but wouldnt that cause more bump steer?

[cryer-evo]

Hi there yes it changed the angle of the wheel wene the car leans over giving you more front end grip as for bump stair yes it could do but not 100% on that I run no spacers on the chassis side and 1mm on the stering side . Bump steir is not always a bad thing ether so long as its not ridiculous like it can be on old tamiya cars hope this helps

[cryer-evo]

Help needed peaple right the
rear of my 22
I have gone up in oil from 20 oil to 27.5 oil to stiffen the rear up
No change to position off shocks so tower out side hole and wishbone out side hole :-) fills lots stiffer

Haw ever I then change shock position to middle on tower and inside of wishbone like peaple have sir-chested I do
Then pushed car down and to me it fills a lot softer almost to the point it fills like there is 20 oil in there but I no there isn't could some one shed some light on this for me I'm sorry if I sound like a dick but I am confused

[paul whittock]

You need to use middle holes top outside bottem don't ever change this , try the 6 hole inserts in rear . Once you have a setup that works don't change it just spring rate , and a good pair of thumbs :thumbsup:

[Frecklychimp]

You need to use middle holes top outside bottem don't ever change this ,

Why?

[paul whittock]

If it ain't broke don't try and fix it :p

[Frecklychimp]

If it ain't broke don't try and fix it :p

?

so far your advice has been very poor, and if you cant back it up then maybe keep it to yourself.

[paul whittock]

All I'm trying to say is when you have found the right setup ON THE DAY just try racing the buggy. Easy for me to say I could drive a shoe box fast :thumbsup:

[Ron Burgundy]

On advice from another oOpler, the ignore function makes the losi thread so much better. :thumbsup:

[Shaun_TLR]

On advice from another oOpler, the ignore function makes the losi thread so much better. :thumbsup:

Give that boy a pack of oreos! great suggestion :D

[Chris56]

I like that suggestion!

Getting back on topic, are many people still running theirs with the front outer ball stud mounted on the spindle carrier? I found it really settled down the steering and made it more predictable.

[paul whittock]

Did bloomers start that idea . Not seen it for awhile . But if its working stick with it . :thumbsup:

[cryer-evo]

Took car out today at yatton club Was a top day set up was as first post but front oil was 32.5 and dropped to a blue spring rear was 27.5 with pink spring mini pin yellow rear and cut staggers on wid rim medium inserts frond and back car was awesome would of had my first b final win if my speedo hadn't of stop working :-( but I ges that's racing .also managed my first ever 20 laps in 5 mins with a 14.8 sec lap well happy with that

[Col]

This thread has been moderated.
Children, please don't let him wind you up.

Robby, you are being watched. Please consider how your tone comes accross before pressing the submit button.

[Chris56]

Did bloomers start that idea

I think so - there was a great deal of talk about the mod soon after the TLR22 came out, but as you said, not heard/seen much about it since.

I have to agree with comments on a similar thread about the Cream weight - single biggest transformation to the car :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Just need to get some blue front springs/pink rears, and maybe a bit of extra driving talent :lol::lol:

[paul whittock]

get silver front and yellow rear as these are commonly used aswell

[Bob_Zahn]

I had great results with green front and pink rear springs on carpet this past weekend. 30 wt front and 25 wt rear with 2 hole 1.6 pistons. Front shocks middle on tower and arm. Rear shocks middle on tower and outside on arm

Rest of my setup posted on my blog

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Thanks for sharing Bob.

If you don't mind - I just want to quote a line from your blog that I think speaks volumes and is sound advice to us all.

"By keeping the car consistent I forced myself to take advantage of where it was working well and adjust my throttle or braking to get through areas where it wasn't ideal"

IMO no setup can be 100% perfect on 100% of the corners or 100% of the track surface. Making the car consistent is the best way of then being able to adapt - making the most out of where your car is fast and protecting yourself in the areas it isn't.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Bob's blog is worth a read

[cryer-evo]

Bob would you post your blog here our a link to it as I can't find it

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Bob would you post your blog here our a link to it as I can't find it


Here you go

http://rczahn.blogspot.com (http://rczahn.blogspot.com)

[cryer-evo]

Thanks will have a read later .

[Frecklychimp]

Thanks for sharing Bob.

If you don't mind - I just want to quote a line from your blog that I think speaks volumes and is sound advice to us all.

"By keeping the car consistent I forced myself to take advantage of where it was working well and adjust my throttle or braking to get through areas where it wasn't ideal"

IMO no setup can be 100% perfect on 100% of the corners or 100% of the track surface. Making the car consistent is the best way of then being able to adapt - making the most out of where your car is fast and protecting yourself in the areas it isn't.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Bob's blog is worth a read

Here here!

we all drive in different ways, it's all about getting the most out of what we have, being in harmony with the car and being consistant.

When i came back to hobby a few years ago i asked advice on mid motored cars from one of he UK's top drivers... he told me to stay on throttle as much as possible rather than sudden braking.... this really works, you have smooth weight transfer and find a lot more grip....

Keeping a cool head and recovering from mistakes quickly will see lap times drop too.

It's worth more for consistant lap times to practice with car as much as possible than spending out on bling newest parts and tweaking every setting between races

I've never found anyone elses set up the perfect cure, but understanding the theory and what each of the setting changes does to the car makes life a lot easier.

TBH the most important setting is tyres, having the right tyres at right time with track conditions is worth much more than having the same coloured camber link spacers as everyone else!

[Robby]

we all drive in different ways, it's all about getting the most out of what we have, being in harmony with the car and being consistant.

TBH the most important setting is tyres, having the right tyres at right time with track conditions is worth much more than having the same coloured camber link spacers as everyone else!

:thumbsup:

[Bob_Zahn]

Thanks for sharing Bob.

If you don't mind - I just want to quote a line from your blog that I think speaks volumes and is sound advice to us all.

"By keeping the car consistent I forced myself to take advantage of where it was working well and adjust my throttle or braking to get through areas where it wasn't ideal"

IMO no setup can be 100% perfect on 100% of the corners or 100% of the track surface. Making the car consistent is the best way of then being able to adapt - making the most out of where your car is fast and protecting yourself in the areas it isn't.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Bob's blog is worth a read

No I don't mind at all and thank you very much for the call out. That's why I wanted to create the blog, to share my experiences.

I will admit that for the majority of my 20+ years racing I would chase setup and sometimes it would work but as I get older my ability to adapt to the changes isn't as sharp as it was! :)

The last few months I have changed my approach and I have seen incredible results. There is no perfect setup as others have mentioned.

[cryer-evo]

One thing I have noticed like ethers have is the 22 likes being driven like a touring car progressive stering and power my racing lines on track are very different compared to say a Durango our rb6 driver but I am just as fast for a given lape my set up is working and working well for me .

But I have had the chance to drive ether makes of car and out of all of them I might have to get a rb6 but for now I am loving my losi 22 It makes me happy when x 22 drivers say you have got that 22 hooked up looks rily good out there
and smooth

[Pascewan]

Hey Guys,
I got a question. I race my 22 on Dirt/Clay and Carpet. Because i don't wan't to change layout every time i just run the car in rear motor layout.
Another reason is that i use stick packs for TC, and i don't like electrics install in the mid car. Setting the car up and driving fits more my style in rear config.

I usually use 13.5T blinky as per class Rule.
Would make sense to buy a second car for the other layout but that's not the point.

I want to have a bit more corner speed and thought about getting a different toe block, but was wondering which one:

Either the knew 2.5° LRC or 3.5° HRC (lowest toe degrees). in the TLR Blog vid it's said that higher roll center equals less traction, but maybe the one degree less has a bigger impact and also gives less resistance on straights. What do you guys think?

EDIT: I mean which would make more sense on Carpet? would the LRC with less degrees work equally?

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Reducing Toe Angle will help to free-up the rear of the car so you should be able to carry more speed through the corner but I suspect it will still be less than a well set-up mid car will achieve on carpet.

But that said, the rear motor is still a lot of fun and your point about using the same car for both dirt and carpet is a valid one.

In my opinion, LRC will grip harder as you enter the corner but could let go more suddenly. In my opinion, that is not what you are wanting to achieve. If your track is full of hairpin and pivot style corners, then LRC could be a good option but you might find HRC will be more consistent in longer corners.

However, that could lead to more push-understeer on throttle as the rear end is working more effectively.

LRC / HRC is more subtle than the toe angle. If you take a degree off of the toe angle and reduce to a maximum of 3 degrees, that will be felt more than the difference between LRC and HRC. If you want the 2.5 deg block, then you will have to use LRC as it is not available as a HRC option.

Hope this helps

[Pascewan]

Thanks mate, it was very helpful!

The thing is, there is no (or i did not find it) 3 degree HRC block. and i can't believe that half a degree is so much difference.

I guess i have no other choice but to test ist :eh?:

I think i'll get the 2.5 LRC first, as the track i race on actually is quite tight and the rear end is rock solid, and it does not feel right to loosen up the rear and still keeping the high toe.

And i know it should be faster with the mid car, but i could not drive it as consistent as the rear car. But for me it's fast enough and i can still keep up with some of the chaps on my track.

[bomber]

TLR2983
22 Aluminium 3 degree Toe Plate
HRC (High Roll Centre)

[Pascewan]

TLR2983
22 Aluminium 3 degree Toe Plate
HRC (High Roll Centre)


now i feel stupid :cry:

it's neither listed on the hop-up parts page from TLR nor in the webshop i usually order.

thanks

[cryer-evo]

please can a editor post the info from my astr/carpet post to this one as there is a lot of info i need ? please our the guys that posted helpfall set ups like shock positions and oils post agane

[cryer-evo]

Need info peaple mid motor rear spring and oil/ piston combo plus location top bottom suffering bounce on landing of mid size jumps

At the mo I am running
oil 32.5
piston 54
spring pink
outer hole top
outer hole bottom

[Delves]

try 4x55 piston with 25wt oil and a yellow spring. If you are running the TLR rear weight please try removing it. This will help with corner speed and double bouncing issues. My set up is posted on other threads (cant remember where) might be worth having a look at,ive got no real issue with double bouncing off of any size jump at present.

[cryer-evo]

Ok will swop out 54 piston for 55 and give that a go out of intrest are you running low profile staggers our the tall ones our something els ?

[Delves]

I'm not sure what you are asking, but I have found the LP stagger to be more consistent than the larger stagger.

[cryer-evo]

That's the answer I was looking for thanks will get some as at the mo I am running the wide tall cut staggers

[cryer-evo]

well that was intreresting the lp stagger gave my car so much more steering that i had to go back to the black spring and mount shock middle top and outer bottom as for the rear put 55 in with pink spring and 32.5 oil middle top iner bottom and for me it was terrible didnt have time to mess about to much but changed rear spring to yello and moved to outer top and outer bottom made it much better but still getting a lot of bounce i think my car is just to low if you look from the back my drive shafts are just below level

[Delves]

Of course that would be worse, but I did tell you to do 4hole 55 with 25wt oil and yellow spring. NOT 4x55 with 32.5wt oil and pink. Guess you live and learn. With regards to ride height, indoor I run at 20mm.

[cryer-evo]

Lol yes you did just thought I would give it a go lol haw ever I did get the car settled and drive aball with the changes I made above lol gone to a white rear spring see haw that goes . If that's no better will swop out the oil to 25/30 ish as for ride hight I think I am running it to low but have no way of checking it properly 19 front 20 rear seems to be the norm but I think I am running much lower could some one get ther car and put some coins under there car then tell me wot coins and haw meny so I can get a ruff ider :-)

[Dombrasky]

Hi mate
2 pence = 2mm
:)

[cryer-evo]

right then gone
front
55 piston
32.5 oil
blue spring
2 tower
outer on arm
ride height 19mm

rear
55 piston
27.5 oil
yellow spring
3 tower
outer on arm
ride height 20mm

fills much better on the desk top
but will have to try it out on track

[cryer-evo]

Now that was more like it got 20 laps in all races apart from the first one where I got 19 so much better more consistent still got a bit of bounce thow

[Delves]

Try 25wt, rear could have too much pack now.

[cryer-evo]

Will give it a go when I get some 25w oil closest to I have is 22.5 and 27.5

[mr. losi]

you the double bounce on landing is from too much pack???

[cryer-evo]

right then bin running rear 55 piston 25w oil and yellow spring rid hight
19-20mm still getting a lot off bounce there must be a fix :mad:

[Frecklychimp]

Are you running any weight in the car? if so, where?

This is set up mid config?

It's very hard to follow your changes and results across the threads and to be able to give sound advice or see a potential issue, how about posting a full detailed set up list, not just how the shocks are set up

[cryer-evo]

only weight i have in the car is the cream one and yes it is in mm config

[cryer-evo]

full set up is

Front suspension
Toe +1
Ride height 19mm
Camber -1 deg
Caster 5deg
Kick angle 25deg
Sway bar no
Oil 27.5
Piston 55
Spring blue
Spindle type trailing
Shock limiters 2mm
Shock location 2 on tower outside on arm
Bump steer 1mm on spindle
Camber link 2 with no spacers

Rear suspension

Toe 4 deg
Anti squat 3 deg
Roll centre lrc
Ride height 20mm
Camber 2 deg
Rear hub spacing foreword short
Hex width stock
Sway bar no
Oil 25
Piston 55
Spring yellow
Shock limiters no
Camber link 1 with 1mm under and E with 1mm under
Shock location 3 on tower/ outside on arm
Battery saddle

Tyres Schumacher yellow cut staggers mid insert front
Schumacher yellow mini spike soft insert rear

love the way the car drives and handles but just getting to much bounce on landings

[Frecklychimp]

What is the track surface?

And this bouncing is only after landing from jumps? if so, are you talking kickers landing on a flat hard surface or landing on an angled down ramp?

and its just the rear bouncing?

[Gnarly Old Dog]

The fix will be to make small changes and observe how the car responds. That's something that not even the best advise or help on a forum can offer.
But if it helps:
My setups and those of Delves rely on the use of rounded pistons. If you're not doing this then our setups won't behave the same on your car. Also, our shocks are set up with low friction O-rings and the use of the emulsion style caps. We set our dampers up to have the least amount of internal stiction caused by the lower o-ring assembly - so as the o-rings swell over time, with each re-build, we make sure that the piston is still free to move and we back off the lower seal cartridge cap to the point whereby the shafts move most freely.

Without knowing the nature of the track you are racing on and the height of the jump landing you are grappling with, it's very difficult to do much more than offer guiding advice. If the car is landing onto a flat surface, you are asking the damper to do much more work than if you are down-siding the jump. If the surface is hard or hard packed, again, you are asking the damper to work harder to absorb all the jump energy than if the surface is softer.

So, for what it's worth. If the track is characterised by large jumps and landings onto flat surfaces, I would increase the pack of the damper and run a 5556 or a 5566 piston. This will mean that you will have to drill out the holes of the normal TLR pistons or get someone to make some pistons up for you. When I say 5566, that is a combination of a normal 4 hole 56 piston with to of the holes drilled out to a 55 size. Similarly, a 5556 means that you start with a 4 hole 56 piston and drill 3 of the holes out.

The difference that 1 hole makes in these big bore shock absorbers is noticeable and this is often how I will tune my car.
Don't forget though that as you increase pack, you will want to consider the effect that a 'stiffer' shock is going to have elsewhere around the lap. You will also want to alter the weight of your shock oil to help retain a balance of small bump activity and large jump impact absorption. The life of a simple damper is far from easy :-)

However, the most critical element to understand first is how much time the bounce is actually costing you overall. You might find that you will get a better overall lap time by accepting a bounce on one jump if the car remains stable and the overall set up is a better compromise throughout the rest of the lap. However, if the jump landing is causing you to crash and roll over, then it's time to change the setup so it works better on that feature.

For most of us, it's virtually impossible to get a perfectly set up car that reacts perfectly across the wide gamut of corners, features and surfaces that make up a single lap - so it's getting to a point where the car is consistent and the overall compromise is one that costs you the least amount of lost time.

Also, try also to consider what you are doing with the throttle at the point of landing. If you are on the throttle early (before the wheels have touched the ground) then you will be stiffening the entire suspension due to the power you re applying. If you're off the throttle, you'll allow the suspension to collapse more readily but perhaps you're then not getting on the throttle early enough to stiffen the suspension action and effectively 'help out' the damper.

Lastly don't under-estimate the effect that Anti-Squat has on both the suspension movement on and off power and also the jump arc the car will carry in the air. If you are running more anti-squat, you will jump higher over any given jump and so your car has more energy to absorb on landing. Again, Delves and my setups are currently using 2 degrees of anti-squat - if we changed the Anti-squat to alter a characteristic, I wouldn't be surprised if it then had a knock on effect (either good or bad) to other areas of the car's handling/ Remember, we often make a change and consider the positive effects that the change will have. The very best guys are those that also consider the negative effect that the change will impart. Its a yin and a yang thing :-)

[cryer-evo]

thanks for the replies track is small to averege indoor mix of astro carpet and bare concrete and as for landing it would apear i have to land a lot higher up the down ramps compared to every one else running a mix of cars from durango 210 /schumacher cougers / kyosho rb6 / and a mix of ae cars
on a good day i can beat them all. i havent tried emolshion shocks yet so will give it a go i dont run any rebound in my shocks either

[cryer-evo]

hi there wot size drill bit would i need to do this ?
4 hole 56 piston with to of the holes drilled out to a 55 size

[cryer-evo]

just put the 56 pistons in with 25w oil and yellow spring up at yatton track tomorrow so will see haw it goes

[RDG 40]

If you try delves set up exactly its near perfection

I ran it again today on carpet type surface with amall mat sections it was dialed! Jus im only f3 hence i dont do it justice

I will say u need to do it as close if not exactly tho. Ive missed bits off or a amall alteration like 2.5wt in oil. And it is still good but the exact same set up is mint!

Try it rather than doin bits of ur own theories and bits of other peoples is my advice

[cryer-evo]

Car went rilly rilly well today :-) still got bounce but a lot better

Could you post a link to this set up you won't me to try ?

Apart from doing the rear shocks with 56 pistons changed shock tower
To middle to get a bit more rear end whent rilly well today
At the yatton track set a lap time of 14.398sec so well happy with that

[Razer]

Gnarly and Delves:

Have any of you tested the 30/0 kickup/caster combination? or 25/0, 30/3-5 and so on?

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Hi Martin,
Yes I've tested 30/0 and found that whilst it seemed to make the car feel more stable , I always seemed to make more mistakes with it fitted.
I have run 25/3 but prefer 25/5
I've also run 20/10 and 25/10 but I've never run 30/3, or 30/5 or 30/10

30/3 or 30/5 might be interesting in wet conditions... Hmmm - might have to think about that :-)

HTH

[Robby]

Have any of you tested the 30/0 kickup/caster combination? or 25/0, 30/3-5 and so on?

I think at one time or another I've tried/tested about every combination, usually track dependent - and it seems I always end up going back to 25/5.