X6 Squared weight

[Wraggy]

so with everyone getting there X6 squared and lipo what weight is everyone running and where on the chassis you addding it ???

[bigred5765]

1740grms all up

[sime46]

1740g's too. Still experimenting with amount of ballast and location tho. Its working really well tho to be fair.Under servo, under speedo and about 40g under lipo. I'm using thin lead sheet so its easy to cut and fit.

[warped]

:confused:What's the thinking behind running that amount of weight?

Sounds surprisingly heavy!

[bigred5765]

helps keep the car on the track,weight isnt as much a issue to speed or duration now as it use to be,

[jono83]

lipo and brushless more than makes up for the extra weight

[bigred5765]

what jono said

[super__dan]

Well there's a little bit more to it than that. First of all there is front/rear distribution and then there's overall weight.

Distribution if you weight your car up front to rear you want something around 35% front and 65% rear. This is more important than overall weight.

If you run a big lipo then chances are by the time you've added wieght to the front you'll be in that overall weight ball park, however this is not a bad thing as often weight is grip and it almost always makes the car easier to drive.

[warped]

So you're saying you need to weigh the car to 1740g to get the correct front to rear weight distribution?

[bigred5765]

depends on your cells / lipos but thats were ares is at around the weight distribution Dans suggested

[Body Paint]

Weight does not only apply to the X-6, it's all cars. A light 2wd car doesn't have much grip and with the amount of power we have nowadays you need a bit of weight to keep the wheels on the ground.

What dan is saying is that don't just add weight and expect the car to be perfectly balanced.

The optimum weight/grip ratio seems to be around 1740g, this is something that the X team have speant a lot of time figuring out. Once you have figured out how much weight you want to add you then need to think about where you want to position the weight to affect the balance of the car. Again the X team have also worked hard on figuring the best front to rear ratio for the X-6 and Super_Dan has worked hardest to figure out that the dream figure is 35% front 65% rear.

[jono83]

well i jus checked mine and it s 35% front and 65% rear!!

[elektrobuggy]

Concerning the fairly high weight for a 2WD buggy:
Do the guys in the States add a similar weight in the car, for instance at Cactus Classic? :confused:

The AE team uses a so called 'lightweight setup' for LIPO with a weight of the B4 of 1515g ready to race.

/norbert

P.S.: I received my Squared just right now and couldn't give it a go up to now...

[Body Paint]

good job Jono :thumbsup:

[bert digler]

Well there's a little bit more to it than that. First of all there is front/rear distribution and then there's overall weight.

Distribution if you weight your car up front to rear you want something around 35% front and 65% rear. This is more important than overall weight.

If you run a big lipo then chances are by the time you've added wieght to the front you'll be in that overall weight ball park, however this is not a bad thing as often weight is grip and it almost always makes the car easier to drive.

where is the centre line:confused:split 35 65

[jono83]

good job Jono :thumbsup: if am being honest its down to luck more than skill lol!!

[Body Paint]

where is the centre line:confused:split 35 65

If you weigh your car up to 1740g then you want the weight on the front wheels to be 609g and the weight on the rear wheels 1131g

[Danosborne6661]

Interesting reading all this!
I've been running a light X6 with a Tekin 3400mah lipo which only weighs 204g!!

Just put some full strip lead sheet under the lipo and under the ESC to take it up to 1700g :D

[warped]

Well I don't run an x6 and to get to 1740g I would have to run 420g of ballast which simply wouldn't fit without a redesign of the chassis (unless anybody has a load of spare tungsten they don't need.)

I currently have a 65 / 35 weight distribution at the minimum weight limit.

It sort of seems counter intuative to be running that much ballast on a racing car.

Dan / Body Paint. Out of interest what sort of tracks were you testing on to come up with that weight?

Were they particularly bumpy?

The reason I ask is that yes heavy cars generate more grip but they also generate more momentum and higher lateral loads too. - So I can see weight being an advantage on rough tracks., but on a smooth track I would expect cornering speed to be worse than for a light car.

This is certainly what you see in touring cars and 1/12.

[jono83]

the 1740g is x6 specific not 1/10th offroad specific we have jus found that this weight works best for the x6 with lipo not sure about other off road chassis sorry

[sime46]

Just weighed my squared up on digi kitchen scales and.... 1736g total with 629g up front and 1107 on the rear. Thats not far off and that was done on handling experiments and testing. I was unaware of the ideal distribution figures until 10 mins ago. Proof if it were needed for me that these boys know thier onions/cars!:thumbsup: Mine has tons of steering and traction and balance seems almost perfect. I just need a rear roll bar now, and that will help my weight distribution even more. Its win win here.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[jono83]

and here :)

[shark]

So where ish is the balance point for the 65/35 front to rear?

[bert digler]

So where ish is the balance point for the 65/35 front to rear?
sorry mate to ask this question :D

[Body Paint]

So where ish is the balance point for the 65/35 front to rear?

Approximately 174mm back from the centreline of the front wheels.

[bert digler]

Approximately 174mm back from the centreline of the front wheels.

is that the balance point mate;)

[shark]

Now thats what I call an answer cheers chap :thumbsup:

[jono83]

yeah if you have 35% and 65% weight distribution it will balance at this point

[bert digler]

yeah if you have 35% and 65% weight distribution it will balance at this point

if it dont your in trouble haha;)

[Body Paint]

Well I don't run an x6 and to get to 1740g I would have to run 420g of ballast which simply wouldn't fit without a redesign of the chassis (unless anybody has a load of spare tungsten they don't need.)

I currently have a 65 / 35 weight distribution at the minimum weight limit.

It sort of seems counter intuative to be running that much ballast on a racing car.

Dan / Body Paint. Out of interest what sort of tracks were you testing on to come up with that weight?

Were they particularly bumpy?

The reason I ask is that yes heavy cars generate more grip but they also generate more momentum and higher lateral loads too. - So I can see weight being an advantage on rough tracks., but on a smooth track I would expect cornering speed to be worse than for a light car.

This is certainly what you see in touring cars and 1/12.

This thread is about the optimum weight/balance of the X-6/X-6 sqaured but the general principles still apply to all cars.

[jono83]

lol i should of put "should" balance at this point !!

[bert digler]

lol i should of put "should" balance at this point !!

lol:p

[jono83]

let me know haha

[Body Paint]

if it dont your in trouble haha;)

I just measured the balance point on mine with a tape measure and it seems to match my maths so fingers crossed I will not incure the wrath of Bert ;)

[bert digler]

I just measured the balance point on mine with a tape measure and it seems to match my maths so fingers crossed I will not incure the wrath of Bert ;)

your ok mate i have a welsh relative:cry: thanks for your help and yes im another harris

[jono83]

lol there is nothing wrong with welsh people

[Body Paint]

If you want to keep the neutral feel, try to keep the weight around the balance point of the car.

Under the speedo and lipo seems to be a good place for the majority of the weight.

[bert digler]

lol there is nothing wrong with welsh people

your to close to the border u dontknow what u are;)

[bert digler]

your to close to the border u dontknow what u are;)

mongrel:D

[jono83]

lmao i was born in wales and have welsh parents its noy my fault i have to live this side haha

[Body Paint]

lmao i was born in wales and have welsh parents its noy my fault i have to live this side haha

LMAO

[bert digler]

lmao i was born in wales and have welsh parents its noy my fault i have to live this side haha

haha:p only joking i love you taffys your feckin ace

[jono83]

haha thanks bert your ace too

[turbo_brick]

Stupid question time, how are people weighing the front to back weights???

Peter

[jono83]

i used 2 sets of scales one under the front wheels and one under the rear wheels
you need for 35% 65% weight distibution the centre line should be 174mm from the centre of the front wheels mine weighed 1740 grams and has 35% over the front and 65% over the rear hope the this makes sense

[super__dan]

Well I don't run an x6 and to get to 1740g I would have to run 420g of ballast which simply wouldn't fit without a redesign of the chassis (unless anybody has a load of spare tungsten they don't need.)

I currently have a 65 / 35 weight distribution at the minimum weight limit.

It sort of seems counter intuative to be running that much ballast on a racing car.

Dan / Body Paint. Out of interest what sort of tracks were you testing on to come up with that weight?

Were they particularly bumpy?

The reason I ask is that yes heavy cars generate more grip but they also generate more momentum and higher lateral loads too. - So I can see weight being an advantage on rough tracks., but on a smooth track I would expect cornering speed to be worse than for a light car.

This is certainly what you see in touring cars and 1/12.

Blimey, catching up on this thread.

I've only had my car run indoors (some high some low grip Euro tracks with arious sized jumps) since Lipo came to me, but on all my cars our setups indoor & outdoor (grass/multisurface Euro tracks (not clay)) always seem to be pretty much the same.

Having done a little work on suspension previous at Uni we did various things there and when I talked about what we do in model car racing the chassis designers I talked to could not believe it. Conventional theory just does not matter to us, what it feels like on track does. I.e. we pivot our cars on a MUCH smaller radius (even at 10th scale) to any normal racing car in almost any class, therefore IMHO you never want say ultimate rear grip because we usually want it to break away some at the right moment to pivot properly.

Similarly the way our suspension reacts over comparitivly shear faces of jumps etc means again logic goes out the window in some respects. So when it comes to weight and things people should run whatever they want but for me a heavy'er' car usually feels better.

That said just to re-iterate, for me getting the balance right (approx 65% rear 35% front on an X6) is MUCH MORE important than overall weight. But anyone running a big (5200mah Vampire Lipo in my case) will have to add 100g ish lead to the front so you'll end up getting to 1700g+ by default whether you want to or not. People running say TP 3200mah ones can chose to run a lighter overall car and still get the balance. But I'd advise them to try it, then add more weight front and rear and try it again and see what they prefer.

[super__dan]

To weigh mine I have some digital kitchen scales to which I place a narrow peice of wood on as the scales aren't wide enough for the width of a car and reset to 0g. Then (and this is important) jack the other end of the car up to the same height so the car is level). Weight front, Weigh rear, add together for total weight.

This will likely be slightly different to if you just weighed the car in 1 go but should be pretty close. Using the totatl of front and rear axles added together should be marginally more accurate.

[Big E]

Just to say a little about the weight of the car.

As Dan says, to us as in the team drivers, we have worked out for over her to get the car to feel nice, as in a good balance between steering and rear traction, you want about 65% rear weight, this is based on a dry track typical to us.

Now as Dan also says the overall weight is then down to individuals. I have the possiblity with the weights I have to run the 65% rear weight but be anywhere between just over 1600g and anything up to 1830g :woot:

I tend to run that weight split pretty much everywhere.

What lipo gives us with the 6 is the ability to move the weight, with nimh we could not shift the weight around at all (not without adding any extra which would have made them big time heavy) but with lipo we have that ability with the ballast weight. For example in the wet around Eden Park I shift the weight I have at the front to the rear of the car to stop the front hanging on to the turns so much... and it makes a massive difference.

What you have to remember was the 6 was designed with split cells, and you can't just take out 140g of weight from the front and expect it to still steer. For the cars with stick packs up the middle and the motor in the wrong place :p the change to lipo is a balanced one, the weight lose is pretty much over the whole of the car, ours is all off the front. Not that this is a bad thing as from what I have seen this gives us much more scope to tune the car purely with weight, for example if we were running lipo at last years euros I certainly would have shifted the weight back and made the front lighter and the car would have been better, not that it was that bad anyway.

With regards to warped's comment I can't remember when I last raced on a flat track with an off road car and unlike touring car where every last milli second of speed you can gain is worth it in off road we have so much power a bit more weight makes no real difference, other than a safer feeling car. Of course if you went mad it would be bad but don't think many will go over board with weight.

So after all that above basically if you want the car to feel like the car did last year, for those that ran them, then you want a 65% rear weight, how much overall is totally up to what the individual wants but we have a very good way of tunning the car with the weights if needed.

I'm off for a sleep now as at my age that took way too much thinking to type all that in :p

E

[Darren Boyle]

Ellis, could repeat that please........;)

[jono83]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[matdodd]

I have to say Dan & E are spot on.
After running the S2 last year which was very light with lipos in. I ran my X6 light for months with just a Trish bits front bulkhead as ballast & was more than happy with how the car was going, but over the lasts couple of months after speaking to E :)
I have been adding weight to the car at every meeting and found the car just gets easier to drive fast the heavier it gets :thumbsup: the funny thing is after weighing it the other day its at 1742!

[grelland]

I am running the old X6 with 6 cells, and after reading this discussion last night I had to pull out the Wife's kitchen scale, and it weighthed in at 1718g with a 36/64% distribution. I have no extra weight added.

[Body Paint]

sounds perfect !

[N7ELA]

To weigh mine I have some digital kitchen scales to which I place a narrow peice of wood on as the scales aren't wide enough for the width of a car and reset to 0g. Then (and this is important) jack the other end of the car up to the same height so the car is level). Weight front, Weigh rear, add together for total weight.

This will likely be slightly different to if you just weighed the car in 1 go but should be pretty close. Using the totatl of front and rear axles added together should be marginally more accurate.

If i weigh my x6 in 1 go its 1510g. If I weigh the front and jack the back up so the car is level, then do the same with the rear and add them together I get 2250g total.

However the weigh distribution is 63.5% - 37.5%. Do I need the total weight to be 1740g weighing it in 1 go but getting a 35 - 65 split.

Also is it better to keep most of the weight central or at the extremeties?

[Lee]

approx 1740 in 1 go is about right.

I dont think many people run a front head as it adds too much weight too far forward and causes the car to keep on turning and it will effect it more jumping, i think the weight is from under the servo, speedo, and a couple in the odd pod here and there to balance things up. the servo weight comes out in the wet and goes under the cells :thumbsup:

I had thought about running lighter but with the weight at the extremeties to get the feel the same but it just doesn't feel quite right in practice. The heavier car just feels much nicer.

[mark christopher]

so how much lead do you put where in the car?

[Lee]

It depends on what cells you run but i think the general rule is about 65g under the servo, 65g under the speedo and 10g in rear pods.

[KevLee]

If i weigh my x6 in 1 go its 1510g. If I weigh the front and jack the back up so the car is level, then do the same with the rear and add them together I get 2250g total.

However the weigh distribution is 63.5% - 37.5%. Do I need the total weight to be 1740g weighing it in 1 go but getting a 35 - 65 split.

Also is it better to keep most of the weight central or at the extremeties?

The total of both ends should be the same as the total car weight. When you are holding the car level are you supporting it by the wheels only (2 on the scales and 2 on a seperate platform)? If you are holding it at further back thats your problem..

[super__dan]

Agreed with Kev, the car should add up the same both ways. It's certainly essential you weight it at the wheels and that the car is level.

I use lead plate that is cut to fit, this totals 40g under speedo, 65g under the servo and 10g on the front bulkhead so 115g total for me. I don't run any in the back but the plate under the servo is only held in by the servo (2 screws for the mounts) so can be very quickly and easily removed to shift the balance back, very helpfull in the wet.

[stuey]

Sorry to drag up such an old post, I still have my squared. My car is set up for the 35/65 weight distribution, and about 1740g total weight. I have been wondering if running saddles in the T config or a shortly would be an opportunity to run the car a bit lighter but keep the distribution the same? Running a car this heavy does not seem to be the fashion these days!

[JoelMaher]

Hi, to lower the overall weight you could try the new Absima Low centre of gravity shorty lipos. These weigh around 50g-100g lighter than saddle lipos but also give you more options for weight distribution and of course a lower CoG.

http://www.insidelinemodels.com/inside-line-shop/batteries-lipo-nimh-alkaline/lipo-batteries/shorty-pack-lipo-7-4v-110c-3800-hardcase-18,5mm-4mm-tubes-p

[stuey]

I have quite a bit of weight in the car I could remove and still maintain the balance. I was wondering if it was worth trying bearing in mind all of the testing which was done some time ago now. Thanks for the response :-)

[AntH]

I have quite a bit of weight in the car I could remove and still maintain the balance. I was wondering if it was worth trying bearing in mind all of the testing which was done some time ago now. Thanks for the response :-)

Adding weight where the weight distribution remains the same is flaky science. (Ducks) :woot:

[stuey]

When the X Factory drivers were testing, I believe they found the extra weight was better. I was wondering if the same could be said today?

[AntH]

When the X Factory drivers were testing, I believe they found the extra weight was better. I was wondering if the same could be said today?

It was, is and always will be complete nonsense. If you don't believe me, check with any qualified motorsport engineer, in any class, worldwide including the off road ones (apart from tractor pulling maybe!). Sure, if you have your car working good with NiMh cells and then lose loads of weight going to lipo, your old setup isn't going to work probably, you need to change it. Anyhoo, suck it and see. If you are still on small bore associated shocks the Ghea #2 Pistons or losi orange worked pretty good at the rear running at 1500g. Run the shorty lipo front to back too to get more weight over the front. Simple Dremel job.