Brushless ?

[andys]

Now then chaps.

Thinking of getting a brushless setup as I believe they can be run at the regionals / york and batley meetings.

Any thoughts, opinions or reccomendations ?
Any good tips where to get hold of one ?

Ta.

[jimmy]

The new Novak looks good, and the LRP/Nosram/Reedy one looks good also.. I beleive these are the only systems that will be "legal" but i think also you can run the mtroniks at regionals...????

I like the look of that lrp/nosram/reedy system, since you can run proper motors on it when you have to.. Supposed to be pretty nippy also.

[chrislee]

Does the Mtroniks come with a fire extinguisher? :P

As Jimmy said, I believe the Novak is supposed to be the dog's danglies.

You've got to much money you have Mr Shilli.....

Chris

[bruce t]

just fitted the novak brushless to my bj4 will see how it goes on sat at york.

[jimmy]

Blimey, I didnt know you had a computer bruce!

Welcome!

Might pop over, I like the york tracks usually and need to get this kyosho setup better.
Interested to see how the brushless goes also

[andys]

Hey up Bruce.

I'm looking forward to seeing the BJ with the brushless setup, have you run it at all yet, is it as quick / nice to drive etc ?

Andy.

[bruce t]

only had a run with it in the house seems ok hope i have got gearing right and ajusted the slipper seems better now see how it goes on sat.

[andys]

Well.

For anyone that didn't see Bruces car at York on saturday, the only thing to say is FAST.

Bruce went past me so quickly, down the straight that the airflow from his car snapped my front shock tower... no kidding it was that fast, stupidly fast infact.

Brushless is The way forward. No doubt.

[bbq]

The new ones are fast even to fast some times =)
But i dont like the weight of the motor it is lump of lead
and i know it changes the balance alot and you have to
use harder set up in the rear.

/Daniel

[Chris Doughty]

Daniel, the LRP VECTOR Brushless motor is around 10gramms lighter than a 10turn brushed motor

[bbq]

Realy? Thats cool!
Well shame on me then :lol:

There was a rumur about a new BL system from LRP?

[Chris Doughty]

rumours fly around all the time, you can never know whats true or not.

there is always something new in the works, do you think they just release a product and then have a years holiday? :P

[jimmy]

sounds almost like you know somet chris ! :)
the thing i'd like to see from these brushless beasts is smaller esc's, they all seem pretty huge at the moment ??
that wont stop me getting one though, when ive got the cash.

[Chris Doughty]

I actually don't know anything specific, but I do know that they work on stuff all the time.

the brushless speedo's are pretty monster, but thats the problem when you move the pole switching operations from the comm/brushes into the speedo... I am sure things will get better but there is so much more load on the speedo when running a brushless.

you can run the sphere with 2 Quantum worlds kit heatsinks on it instead of the sphere heatsink and that does lower its profile quite a bit

[bbq]

Chris!

Do you personaly think BL is the future?

[andys]

After seeing Bruces run with the new Novak kit, I would say it has to be the way forward. I was so convinced i've ordered mine :)

[Chris Doughty]

Yes I do, who like rebuilding motors, with performance similar to brushed motors if allowed to, why would you run a brushed motor?

[jimmy]

any idea if they will be allowed at nationals next year ? If so i would get one.. we can use them in the north east regionals which int bad, but it has to be the nationals before i get one.

[Bathy]

Nope... not next year save your pennies for 2007!

(That's what I've heard anyway)

[Chris Doughty]

Definately not nationals,

but it is at regions descretion for regionals, also might be allowed for F2's, Juniors, F345's I think, check the minutes of the BRCA off-road AGM on the BRCA site

[andys]

I've run the Novak twice now and compared it back to back with my best brushed motors. It's definatley faster (and that's the 6.5 motor). It seems to keep accelerating on the straight for longer, whereas you can feel the brushed motor reaches it's top speed and hasn't any more to give. I have a setup question though...

I want to set it up to give a smooth a power delivery as possible. To this end i've set the minumum drive at it's lowest setting, otherwise the power is too choppy at the low end. I can also set something called 'dead band' too, but I have no ideas what it is or what it does ? Can anyone give me a clue as to what it does an how I should set it so that I get the smoothest throttle response. Ta.

[chrispattinson]

Andy

The deadband is the area around neutral where the throttle or brakes dont function. So if you have the dead band set to a high value, you will be able to move the stick (or pull the trigger) a little around the neutral mark with no response.

A lower value setting will give instant response when the stick (or trigger) is moved.

I recommend a low value for deadband, that way, you can drive smoother as you have control as soon as you move the stick. Having said that, with a high value deadband, you will automatically compensate for it after a few races, its all what you are used to.

[andys]

Chris.

Thanks for the info.

Andy.

[andys]

Just thought i'd update anyone with how the GTB is going in case they have one / are thinking of getting one.

It's on it's way back to Novak in the USA !

I e-mailed them with the overheating problems I had at the Super Cup and at York and basically was told there is a problem with the thermal sensor and the unit needed to be returned for repair / exchange. Bummer.

Cost a few quid to send it back, will post how I get on, so back to brushed motors for now, good job I didn't sell the lathe.

If anyone knows of any new brushless systems on the way, please post, I was considering jumping to the Nosram system, but my sensible side says I should wait.....

[Chris Doughty]

LRP Have a Sphere comp in the works, I was told that it was due out end of Jan but I have not seen one yet.

can handle a brushless motor down to 3.5 turns, and they also have a '4-star' motor due out with the speedo that is quicker than the all ready fast 3-start motor.

see mid-way down this page
http://www.rc10.com/shusting/CatalogHub/lrp/sphere.htm

edit - another bonus with the LRP setup is that if you region allows brushless motors, you will be able to use it, the Novak Velocity motor is not BRCA legal
http://www.brca.org/BRCA/elecboard/news/EB%2005%20Size%20Brushless%20Motors%20latest.doc these are the only legal brushless motors for BRCA

[DCM]

I do know Tekin are working on a system, but as of yet, no details have been fed out, and even those in the loop for stuff don't know much if anything about it.

[Northy]

But it will be sensorless! :)

[DCM]

If you have a system that is designed to run as sensorless, then you can run both sensored and sensorless motors, whereas if your ESC is designed for sensored, you are stuck with sensored motors.

But with sensorless, your software got to be realy on the ball. (throttle mapping, shit like that).

[Chris Doughty]

I got my sphere comp and vector 4-star, not tried them yet, but some interesting things to note.

it comes with a 'power' cap pre-installed, it is not wired direcly to the solder tabs and some out the side with the FET lead and reciever plug, I thought this was a neat little trick, you can hide' the cap under the solder tabs as well so no extra floor space is used up.

it has a very cool looking blue LED on it :)

its auto sensing brushed and brushless operation, you don't need to switch profiles when switching motor types

its Li-Po safe, it has auto cut-off when you use Li-Po

vector brushless motor is 8500 KV, and 61200 rpm on 7.2v.... OMG!!!

needless to say... its going in my 2WD :D

[jimmy]

Cool! is the motor a new one chris ?
What is the difference from the previous lrp brushless? will this one remain a bit cooler ? smoother ?

[Chris Doughty]

its just a lower turn brushless motor, more power basically, comparable to a 7turn brushed.

the speedo is a 'racing' version of their 'sport' sphere.

the sphere comp has no reverse and fully 'racing spec' in the same way the QC2 and QC3 are. it also has lower motor limits so it would run whatever is available now cooler and faster.

[wouter.z]

He guys,

This weekend i saw a new brushless system from GM/ graupner, its much smaller then the LRP/ NOvak system and it is also a lot cheaper.

http://shop.graupner.de/webuerp/servlet/AI?ARTN=2894

http://www.gm-racing.de/rwdownload/downloads/gm_neuheiten_06_brushless.pdf

[jimmy]

It looks good, but the price doesn't come with a motor?

[wouter.z]

No it doesnt come with a motor, but i have seen the esc for like 129 euro (+/-86 pounds) and the motors are like 69 euro (+/-46 pounds).

[barnyard]

currently at the 12th euros in gran canaria there appears to be very little difference between the brushed and brushless in terms of speed most using them have opted for the lrp/nosram system mainly due to size .

those running them compare them to a very smooth brushed motor the only advantage appears to be in runtime ideal for the throttle jammers but people are still dumping so isnt the perfect solution most of us were hoping for.

Most people still seem o be stripping the brushless down to clear out all the crap so maintainance is still required just not as labour intensive.

[jimmy]

nice one Ian! good luck btw.

You 12th boys need to take something apart, the cars are so simple theres nothing else to do is there ? need something to pass the time ! :p

[DCM]

I think the advantage will come from the motor being the same run after run, not like a brushed motor. I don't think efficieny will be greatly improved.

[MattW]

Wouter, did you see the GM system running, and if so what was the performance like??

Any idea which motor was in use - GM currently have 2 "legal" motors i believe??

[wouter.z]

well all I can say is that the motor was a evo 2 but i dont know what wind or if it was a ifmar spec(sensored), (I didnt ask because my german sucks)

And it was fast, at least as fast as the competition i think. The guy
(kim sitensky)that drove the system was in my quali and i was driving a 10*2 and he had the same speed as me, he only drove better.

[barnyard]

update from 12th euros

lots of people now reverting to brushed motors complaining of a lack of feel, responsiveness similar to that of massive turbo lag especially around 7 mins when batts have lost their punch

[MattW]

Wouter, thanks, I think the Evo 2 (there are 2 of them i think) are Ifmar spec ones.

Kim actually speaks fairly good english - although he didn't reply when i got a little upset with him at the BEGP a few years ago !!

Ian, interesting. All i can say is that MarkB's looked good last weekend. Chances of brushless being proposed for 12th at the EGM decreasing then!!

[Chris Doughty]

I just tried the sphere comp and 4star in my 2WD down the street.

OMG!!!

some old taper pins on the rear, we are talking power wheelies from mid throttle punching to full power

I almost destroyed my car, I certainly was not expecting it to be that fast

[jimmy]

I had a look at the specs of that motor in the nosram leaflet from the latest RACER magazine, just looking at the RPM its faster than any brushed motor ive seen.
Do you think that motor will be raceable or would you recommend one of the slower motors ?

[Chris Doughty]

I never thought I would find a motor that would be too fast to race, I will let you know after sunday, I am off to stotfold (yes you did read it right, I am going racing!!! :D :D :D )

after the breif try with it down the street, I have to say I'm scared

[jimmy]

I go best with my 12 / 11 turn motors but I do fancy something far quicker than I can handle just for a laugh and club days like.. :D

[Northy]

Is there any data to work out how it compares with the Novaks?

Samish or faster than a 5.5? Or similar to a 4.5?

I'm thinking of getting a 5.5 for outdoors.

G

[Chris Doughty]

the 4-star is LRP's 5.5 turn brushless motor.

not sure how the Novak motors compare to the LRP's though.

but I seriously think that a 4.5 turn brushless motor is strickly snoring car only, too fast for off-road.

not that it matters how quick the Novak motors are (other than the SS) the Novaks are not BRCA legal last time I checked

[MattW]

The new range of Novak's are on the list now I believe, i also believe there will be more brushless motors on the list before the start of the season - possibly another 4.5 turn.

I have tried a touring car with a Novak 4.5 in it. I would say that it felt similar to my own car that day - which had an 8x1 in it. It was someone else's car, so i can't vouch for his cells or anything like that.

[Northy]

Yeah, Novaks are now BRCA legal :)

[Chris Doughty]

for the track I raced at, I had to take out the 4-star, it was too fast for the conditions.

slippy stotfold astro turf was hard work with that much power.

a nice high grip track and the motor would be pretty good I think

[andys]

Just thought i'd post a message and say that Novak have finally sent me a totally brand new GTB as a replacment for my faulty one ! Nice,

It did take alomost 2 months to turn it around though, I can only guess that someone walked back with it from the States !

At least they came through in the end, just hope the new unit doesn't have the same fault.

Funny isn't it, in the time it's being away, it's now out of date as far as speed is concerned, what with all these 4.5 5.5 turn motors coming onto the scene.

If anyone knows a good UK shop that sells the new novak motors on their own, please post a message as I might 'upgrade' before we go outdoors.

[jimmy]

Bit poor is that andy.
maybe the pigeon kept dropping it ?

Aye you will need to update to keep up with andy Grason, but saying that, you can just wait till the first corner and he'll keep going straight. :D

Seriously tho, indoors dont think they are any advantage, but outdoors on some of those track we run on, the speed is really gonna be a benefit, durham usually have a massive straight you could fall asleep on.

[G30RGE]

:rolleyes:
well maybe not this year:p

[Northy]

I have a new brushless motor in the post as we speak! :-)

[Bathy]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… be nice when we can use brushless motors at all events including 1/10th off road nationals, 2007 fingers crossed. :)

[andys]

Jimmy.

I like the bit about Mr Grason ! I think there's some truth there....

Graham, which motor have you gone for and from where did you procure it ?

Has anyone except Chris tried a brushless in 2wd yet ? Is anyone goint to run one in 2wd at the regionals ? I think Jimmy has got a point, serious speed would knock a good few seconds off lap times at some of the NE tracks.

Ta.

[andys]

Just done a bit of fishing around on the web...

Basically found the new Novak 4.5 at motor and it says in the description at Microtech, that it will work with the GTB speedo, or the LRP / Nosram units ?

Is this the case, if so I didn't know that !

Does this mean then the LRP / Nosram / Reedy brushless motors work with the GTB ? Is the sensor plug exactly the same ? Is there any known dissadvantage to using a non novak motor on the GTB ?

Lastly does anyone know what wind the Novak 4.5 motor is equivilant to, will it be ok in a buggy ?

I'm confused now...

[Northy]

I've already got a 6.5 Novak that came with my GTB, I've got a 5.5 coming. I think a 4.5 would be too fast for offroad, great down the straights but too much elsewhere. I think its the equivalent of a 6-7 turn brushed! :)

I'm tempted to put the brushless in the 2wd for Teesdale as its got to come out of the Pred for the National the week after anyway :(

[andys]

Cheers for the info Graham.

I've gone for broke and ordered the 4.5 from microtech !

I think i'll just put it in the 4wd for now.

[MikePimlott]

ive read that the faster brushless systems are not all that good for off road buggies and that the new 2STAR systems (LRP, Nosram) are about 11Turn are supposed to be recomended for off road. But is that fast enough??
Any thought / Recomendations anyone pls?

[Chris Doughty]

sensored brushless systems use a 'standard' 'HALL' sensor wire, I think this might be a BRCA regulation but not sure.

I know that novak and LRP/NOSRAM both use the 'HALL' sensor connector.

the differance is that the novak motors the sensor wire is hard wired to the motor, the LRP/NOSRAM motors have a connection each end and different length wires available.

Novan and LRP/NOSRAM should be able to run each others motors but there might be some special software on the speedo that is more suited to running the 'own brand' motors.

with regard to recomendations for off-road motors, I agree, 2-star would be suited to 2WD and 3-star for 4WD..... on dirt!!!

if the grip is there, why not try the seriously quick motors :D

I ran a 3-star brushless at the model expo last year in 2WD on carpet and it was ace, nice speed but not too much

[MikePimlott]

Cheers,
I think for the moment ill go for the grip rather than all out speed and get the 2star, As a 3star motor can be purchased after.

Mike.

[andys]

I had pretty much the same problem.

The default profiles on the Novak are all a bit silly. The minimum throttle is something silly like 20% !

Once youv'e spent an hour or so watching all the coloured lights in the setup procedure, you can get it to feel nice and smooth.

Saying that though, when i buy abother brushless system I think I'll try a Nosram / Lrp as they fit into the car more easily. It's odd that the Novak uses a fan and the Lrp doesn't ? Is that because the novak 'needs' the fan, or is it just to help a bit, i've seen people running the Lrp and using a small fan to blow some air over the heatsink too ?

[Chris Doughty]

depends on your use of the speedo,

LRP do have a brushless cooling kit which is a reciever plug'able' 25x25mm fan and a power cap.

Touring car using the 4-start motor I think you would need the fan,

off-road I am guessing just the heatsink, but if its a mega high grip track the fan wont do any harm.

12th scale on 4 cells you don't need the fan or even the heatsink from what I am told.

I was doing some 'street running' with my 2WD last night, sphere comp, 4-star motor, no heatsink or fan (not recomended, but I just installed it) and I ran for 10 minutes, the speedo was hot after the run but nothing I was concerned about.

[MikePimlott]

so you can set the limit of the throttle on the speedo (i know i can on my tx).
perhaps its worth getting the faster 3 star and turning it down at first or on low grip tracks, then upping the speed on speedo for high grip tracks?? (is PC s/ware required to alter max speed?)
where as if i get the 2 star one im limited to around 11turn Max
???

[Chris Doughty]

adjustment on the sphere is all done through button pressing, no external equipment is required, once you get used to it, its very simple.

I don't think it would be as driveable if you go for the faster motor and limit the EPO, you can only do this via the transmitter.

on the regular sphere (not the comp) you can use 'sportsman' mode, this limits the max rpm to 24,000 rpm but its still going to have all the power up until that amount of revs.

the sphere comp has a 'low traction' setting, I tried this on a wet road and was suprised at how much it tries to traction control, worth a try just so you know what it does :D

[tyreman]

Chris you have a pm @ doughty.net

[andys]

Hoping to have a run this weekend with the new Novak 4.5 motor in the BJ. Had a quick go with it down the road and it was SILLY.

Will post findings tommorow all being well.

[DCM]

with an rc18t on a 380 size brushless, it is fast enough to be uncontrollable, lol.

[OldTimer]

I ordered yesterday the LRP Sphere Comp and the 3 star Vector motor (9T), should be interesting to see how it goes in 4wd :D

After the Kiddy national it looks like i will not get into any nationals, and that was the only place i had to use brushed motors, and with my QC2 melting seems like a ideal time to go brushless. I guess i will have some checkpoint motors and a hudy comm lathe up for sale soon :(

[DCM]

try it first Jon, brushless is an acquired taste and make sure you keep the ESC cool. Oh, keep your motors for the end of season finals.

[OldTimer]

Don't worry i was not going to sell them all lol, i gear lower than most people so temp's hopefully will not be a major problem, hopefully brushless will be allowed at the year end finals, seems a little crazy if you can use them at regionals but not the finals.

[DCM]

That was left down to the regions to decide whether to allow them as at the time, there wasn't a great choice, but I can see that changing for next year. When Tekin get their one sorted I will be running it exclusively, lol.

[andys]

Ran the new Novak 4.5 today for the first time at Bury Metro in the BJ. Went for the reccomended gearing, and ran a 17t pinion. All I can say is amazing. It's not as smooth as I would like even with all the drive / dead band settings at their lowest and the throttle curve set on the tranny to compensate. But overall it's awesome. I think i'll just gear it up a bit next time to try to tame the amount of torque. It ran for around 8mins on a set of 3700's before dumping, so there's lots of scope for playing with the gearing. Even at the end of 5 mins the amount of power and acceleration was great.

On the straight at Bury I only managed full throttle for a second or 2 as the car would just take off over the crest leading into the straight, it was tricky to catch and could easily have being nasty.

The sound is bizzare, sort of as though it's not quite meshed properly !

I reckon an a higher grip / grass track the power will be really nice. The lowest wind brushed i've ever run is a 9 single, so it's hard to tell if this is a fast as say a 7 or 8, all I know is that the car wasn't lacking for speed compared to anyone else on the track, and thats good enough for me, now if I could only master driving it quickly without crashing.....

[Northy]

Andy, what ratio did you run the 4.5 on? Did it get hot at all?

Trying to figure out what ratio to run the 5.5 on this weekend, are you running yours?

G

[andys]

Hi Graham.

I'm useless with ratio's and stuff, way too complicated.
All I can say is I ran a 17 tooth pinion on the BJ worlds and it was fine. I ran it until it dumped, around 7-8 mins and the motor was hot, but not untouchable, nicely warm i'd say.
I used the guide that came with the Novak motor I think it said around 3 teeth lower than i'd run normally, so i'd just drop a tooth if your going from the 6.5 to the 4.5.

I might try gearing it up this weekend to calm the torque down, I know it won't dump and the track at Bury offers very little resistance, so I guess that's one of the reasons it all stayed quite cool.

It was awesome, if anything too fast down the straight, it scared me a bit !

[Northy]

Cheers Andy.

Does anyone know what ratio a 17 tooth pinion is on a BJ worlds then?

G

[Cockerill]

11.47:1 :)

[PaulRotheram]

Cheers Andy.

Does anyone know what ratio a 17 tooth pinion is on a BJ worlds then?

G

wheres the pred? :?

[Northy]

Sat right next to me waiting to be fitted with a suitable pinion to get somewhere near Andys gearing in his BJ4! :D :D :D :D

[PaulRotheram]

need to read the entire thread then dont i.. sigh lazyness :p

[craigosh]

So do you guys reckon it's worth investing in a brushless system now? i'm looking at buying some new racing kit for the new season and was going to buy a new esc and checkpoint but i'm tempted now by the brushless..

How long do you think it'll be competitive for though? will i be able to run it two or more years and not be left behind by newer faster setups? I'd of thought that the 4.5 novak would be the fastest you'd ever want for offroad....!

[DCM]

if it is a sensored system, then as long as the motor got the Hall connector on it, then in theory it should work, just watch the ESC temperatures.

Brushless is a fuss free system, just remember, it will still need cleaning out inside, just no skimming or brushes.

[craigosh]

well it getting more appealing the more i look at it really.. I'm useless when it comes to getting motors serviced, hate soldering brushes and dont think i've ever skimmed a motor...!!! just need to decide if my old dynastorm will take the power from a brushless.. handles my 10x2 checkpoint fine though..

[DCM]

Ahh, your Dynastorm in the pics from Southport... ACE...

You just need to choose the motor with an 'equivalent' rating to a 10x2 to be honest.... and go from there, just ensure the motor is on the Brushless list on the BRCA site.

[craigosh]

eh? what pics??? not seen em...

looks like it'll be either the lrp/nosram 3 star or novak gtb 6.5.
Any idea if the gtb will fit in the dark impact?

[Northy]

I'd say either of those would be a good choice. I've got a Novak 6.5 for indoors and a 5.5 for outdoors in da Pred! :D

[DCM]

yes, brushless fits the DI... I think I have seen pics of a Novak system in there.

[Rob]

To revive this topic again.

I'm going to buy the LRP Sphere Competition and 4 star motor. This is mainly for my 1/12th car (legal for nationals now :D).

I also want to use it in my 2WD B4. Should I just set the punch to the lowest low grip setting? I'm only really going to run at Bury Metro, Southport & Batley in regionals, club days.

Also has anyone tried the Sphere Comp with a brushed motor? Wondered what it would be like with a 19t in my 1/12th to save swapping ESC's.

[OldTimer]

Rob, i have just installed the Sphere Comp in my 4wd tonight with the 3 star motor, hopefully have its 1st run this weekend at the mid-west regional :) fits nice and the setup of the speedo is straight forward, but lots of wires.

From what i have been told the lowest punch setting is very good on low traction surfaces, almost like traction control. Would of been handy at the tiverton national if you could use brushless.

[Rob]

Would it probably be better to get a 4 star & 3 star? 4 star for 1/12 and 3 star for 2wd off road?

[OldTimer]

3 star is around a 9-10 turn brushed motor, not sure of the 4 star but i guess that should be good in the 1/12, i can tell you after sunday what the 3 star is like ;) but it would be good to have a couple of motors to switch between.

[KingBob]

I just recently dropped a Novak GTB with Velociti 6.5 Motor in my T4, absolutely flies. More efficient, more punch, and better runtimes than brushed.

Considering getting a 5.5 motor as well, might be a tad too much for a truck, the tracks here tend to be on the slippery side.

Maybe a 4.5 when i get my yokomo MR4 BX :D

[sefton]

I've got the GTB 6.5 in my B4, your welcome to come & have a look next time I'm at Bury!

Craig.

[Northy]

I'd have thought a 6.5 would be good in a 2wd, my 5.5 was awesome in the X10 till the speedo went pop. :(

G

[Bathy]

I just recently dropped a Novak GTB with Velociti 6.5 Motor in my T4, absolutely flies. More efficient, more punch, and better runtimes than brushed.

Considering getting a 5.5 motor as well, might be a tad too much for a truck, the tracks here tend to be on the slippery side.

Maybe a 4.5 when i get my yokomo MR4 BX :D

Well I was thinking about getting the novak 6.5 (or an LRP's one) for my MR4 BX, thought 4.5 was meant for touring cars... be way too much for off road would it not? Or is there no such thing as way too much?

[Chris Doughty]

To revive this topic again.

I'm going to buy the LRP Sphere Competition and 4 star motor. This is mainly for my 1/12th car (legal for nationals now :D).

I also want to use it in my 2WD B4. Should I just set the punch to the lowest low grip setting? I'm only really going to run at Bury Metro, Southport & Batley in regionals, club days.

Also has anyone tried the Sphere Comp with a brushed motor? Wondered what it would be like with a 19t in my 1/12th to save swapping ESC's.

Hi Rob,

4-star motor in a 2WD would be fine... if you can drive 12th cars you will have enough throttle control to be able to drive a 2WD with a 4-star motor in it. geared right it will be pretty silly fast though :) I almost destroyed my 2WD trying it out in the street, mid-speed power wheelie onto its back.

the low traction setting is really for where there is very little traction at all, just the setting above that for most off-road applications.

Sphere comp running brushed motors is fine, better than most brushed speedos actually, the comp version it brushed/burshless auto sensing to no need to change any settings, except maybe 'auto brake' which you might run on a brushless motor to make it feel like a brushed motor, but turn it off when using a brushed motor, else it will be locking the rear wheel off power.

a 4-star is supoed to be similar to a 7 turn brushed motor.

If you were to buy an extra brushless motor for off-road, then the 3-star would be a good bet, it has a wider power band than the 4-star, though it does not rev as high.

Hope that helps, its also useful to turn off the 'LiPo' mode, we don't need low voltage protection using nmhi cells, don't risk having it on.

[OldTimer]

You never go to fast :D, the 3 star or equivilant novak would be about right for the Yok.

[KingBob]

Being realistic, i think the 55. should be nice in the Yokomo... the 6.5 is just right in the T4. Though when running the Orion 7.4V 4800mah Lipo it's a bit nuts. Pity I can't shoehorn one of those into a yokomo!

[jimmy]

Some of the tracks cry out for mega speed, Ive almost fallen asleep on a straight at durham n.e regional. So, get the fastest possible!! :)

[Rob]

OK I'm just going to get the 4 star to start off with, If it's too fast then I can always get the 3 star later.

What pinion would you suggest starting with Chris on a B4 with stock spur.

[OldTimer]

Rob, i think the 4 star if it is a lower wind than the 3 star (9t-10t brushed) will be a bit to wild for a B4, maybe start the other way around with a 3 star.

[Rob]

I need the 4 star for my 1/12th. Maximum speed and runtime :)

I'll see how it goes, if it's too fast for the B4 then I'll stick with brushed in that for the moment.

[sefton]

Ive got the gtb 6.5 and I gear my b4 with a 81 spur and 18 pinion.

[Chris Doughty]

OK I'm just going to get the 4 star to start off with, If it's too fast then I can always get the 3 star later.

What pinion would you suggest starting with Chris on a B4 with stock spur.

Rob, whatever the overall ratio states in the manual for the 4-star start with that, it wont be far wrong.

[OldTimer]

Here are a couple of quick photos of the Sphere Comp with 3 star motor fitted in the Slim4 4wd.

[Northy]

What's that in the background? :confused: :D

G

[Chris Doughty]

What's that in the background? :confused: :D

G

looks like an old skool JRX-pro, my first Losi.

[Northy]

Not to me it doesn't! :)

[Stu]

G, what about the JRX that's in ya mates shed?
What's crack?

[DCM]

Doughty, fibber... we knoooooooooooooooow.... roflol

[Northy]

Stu,

Its actually a Junior 2, and I've asked him if he fancies parting with it (but it's his brothers really).

Nearly got the Gold Tub RC10 back together. :D

G

[Oscar]

What's that in the background? :confused: :D

G

looks like some thing missing a driveshaft or 3 ;)

[PaulRotheram]

hmm.. i might have to try one of these brushlesses.. quite a few are starting to get them :confused:

[Chris Doughty]

mine is ace, I might run my sphere comp with a brushed motor at southport.

[sefton]

At the moment my b4 has a gtb 6.5 with a 81 spur & 18 pinion (as suggested by novak). But it just isnt half as quick as I imagined it would be.

what gearing would you guys recomend?

Craig.

[Rob]

Isn't the 6.5 suppose to be the equilivant of a 10 turn? I gear my 10x2 motor about 20 or 21 pinion. I used 21 at Bury on Sunday and was just getting warm.

[sefton]

http://www.teamnovak.com/download/instructions/pdfs/GTB_prg_gearing.pdf

Aparently you should use about 2 teeth lower on the pinion with brushless.

[Chris Doughty]

I agree with that, I have found that 'equivilant' brushless versions of the same motor need to be 2-3 teeth lower (in a Losi)

[sefton]

Whats the best way to make it faster then?

[Chris Doughty]

Whats the best way to make it faster then?

it needs to be seen in person to guage if it is running 'as fast as it should'

what kind of speeds are you getting? is it similar to a 10 turn brushed motor?

[sefton]

Thats difficult for me to answer as I'm a newbie to electric buggies!

at a guess I would say its no quicker than a 10 turn.

Its just I read that these things are stupidly quick, but mine isnt!

Dont get me wrong as a newbie its fast enough at the moment.

[MikePimlott]

Na craig, its deffinatley not as fast as ive seen them, I run my brushless with a 20T pinion and the 81T spur. I think thats the best Way you can get it faster.

Go up 1 pinion size at a time and see if the motor is getting red hot after a run and what the speed increase is like.

[Barry Williams]

My son runs a GTB 5.5 in his B4 on 81/20 gearing & it goes really well, but be aware that it`s not just the motor that gets hot, the speed controller is where we`ve had probs in the past with it overheating & the thermal cutout stops or slows the car dramatically. I have recently had to cut the body shell to allow more airflow to try to cool things down.

[sefton]

Yeah going to try a 19pinion and see how that is!

Should be ok for cooling as I've got quite a few air vent in the shell.

Cheers

Craig.

[Rob]

Is your slipper maybe slipping?

[Chris Doughty]

My son runs a GTB 5.5 in his B4 on 81/20 gearing & it goes really well, but be aware that it`s not just the motor that gets hot, the speed controller is where we`ve had probs in the past with it overheating & the thermal cutout stops or slows the car dramatically. I have recently had to cut the body shell to allow more airflow to try to cool things down.

Indeed, most of the 'work' in brushless setups is done by the speedo, that is normally the thing that will over heat.

[sefton]

Not sure about the slipper, it just set to the factory settings (4 turns from the top of the shaft).

Craig.

[Bathy]

My son runs a GTB 5.5 in his B4 on 81/20 gearing & it goes really well, but be aware that it`s not just the motor that gets hot, the speed controller is where we`ve had probs in the past with it overheating & the thermal cutout stops or slows the car dramatically. I have recently had to cut the body shell to allow more airflow to try to cool things down.

Does the fan not keep up with the heat then?

I have an old SS5800 novak brushless and I had to fit my own fan on that to stop it cutting out, I thought these new ones wouldn't suffer from cutting out. For 2007 I'm going to move away from brushed altogether and so will be looking for a new brushless system, torn between Novak & LRP might be worth waiting until the end of the year I guess.

2007 better see the end of silly rules such as stopping ‘BRCA approved’ Brushless motors at nationals :confused:

:flower:

[DCM]

There will be another system running by then Dave, and one aimed at off-road to, as most of the brushless systems are designed around the touring car market, hence most of the motors are not suitable for off-road or the power mapping of the software.

[Chris Doughty]

There will be another system running by then Dave, and one aimed at off-road to, as most of the brushless systems are designed around the touring car market, hence most of the motors are not suitable for off-road or the power mapping of the software.

I don't know of a more suitable off-road system than the LRP one, no one is making you buy the 'fast' brushless motors, LRP have a 1-star if you want smooth driveable wide power band (but not as much top speed)

the Sphere comp even has a 'low traction' setting, this is completely useless for a touring car, it was put in for off-road, low traction dirt.

its not like LRP have 2 seperate brushed speedo's, one for snoring car, the other for off-road.

[sefton]

Theres already a whole host of different motors & speedo's avalible to suit most types of driving class.

[OldTimer]

2007 better see the end of silly rules such as stopping ‘BRCA approved’ Brushless motors at nationals :confused:

:flower:
David, if you cannot use brushless at the Nationals next year, i wont be doing them. I will give you my thoughts about the LRP system after the weekend when it gets its first test :)

I understand that the Novak motors will work fine with the LRP Comp speedo, so that allows you more choice on the motor front.

[DCM]

I think where I got mis-interpretd, the throttle and power mapping for an on-road car would and IS different to a buggy, as grip, tyres and everything is different. With brushed, you would buy motors with different winding techniques to alter how a motor reacted and gave it's power, not with Brushless, as it is the magnets that rotate and not the windings, you have to alter how a motor 'feels' with, easiest way to describe it, is like engine mapping in your car. You can have the same engine but alter the ignition timming and fuel input to get the engine to have differing characteristics.

Brshless is somewhat the same, and as the visible market initialy has been touring cars, thats what the profiles have been aimed at, and the motors. So a slightly different approach on the throttle mapping is needed for off-road to make the units more driveable.

[MattW]

Depends how you mean aimed at "Off Road". I mean, if it's from the US, then you're looking at 2wd fairly low traction dirt. Which is nothing like what we race on at the majority of tracks.

You're kind of right when you say that most of the brushless stuff is aimed at touring car racing. However, i can't help thinking that this is actually much cl oser to 4wd high traction that the other scenario i mention. I suspect that a 5.5 or similar would be quite good in 4wd. From what i've seen.

[DCM]

Maybe, I can't help but think after seeing a few B4's go with Novak Brushless in them, they seem waaaaaay over powered even for grass, guess you will STILL have to invest in a few motors though.

[Chris Doughty]

but the LRP sphere does have 'low traction' 'off-road' maps, it also has Aggressive Touring car maps.

also, I don't think LRP's 1 or 2 star brushless motors were developed for 'mod' Touring car racing, they can't be used in stock or super stock, what do you think they were developed for?

LRP can't stop people buying 4-star motors and running them in off-road on low traction dirt. or slippy grass.

[OldTimer]

Its a shame LRP don't give more info about the motors on there website, i think if they listed the different motors and winds, it would help people select the correct wind. I wonder if this is why people may get the 4 star and not realise how low a wind it is :D

I guess you are going to show were on the site the info is now lol :)

[Chris Doughty]

Its a shame LRP don't give more info about the motors on there website, i think if they listed the different motors and winds, it would help people select the correct wind. I wonder if this is why people may get the 4 star and not realise how low a wind it is :D

I guess you are going to show were on the site the info is now lol :)

I don't have the info, but I thought somewhere it stated that the star rating is the 'speed' of the motor, more stars, faster the motor, and it does say that the 3-star is similar to a 9 turn brushed

[DCM]

I don't understand why they just don't rate the motor by it's RPM per volt, which is how they are doing it in the other classes of brushless, so you have say a 5.4KV motor, which is 5,400rpm per volt, so put 7.2v to it and it will rev free-load at 38,880rpm you can then have some sort of 'comparison' rather than the 'mystery' of it being an equivalent to a x turn motor.

[Chris Doughty]

I don't understand why they just don't rate the motor by it's RPM per volt, which is how they are doing it in the other classes of brushless, so you have say a 5.4KV motor, which is 5,400rpm per volt, so put 7.2v to it and it will rev free-load at 38,880rpm you can then have some sort of 'comparison' rather than the 'mystery' of it being an equivalent to a x turn motor.

on the LRP website it should give the sepcs.

here is a direct link to the page
http://www.lrp-electronic.com/e/lis/05_Electric-Motors/E-Motors-technical.html#E-Motor_Tech_Vector

the 4-star is 8500 kv from memory

[PaulRotheram]

where is everyone getting their full brushless systems froim, and how much ££ incl postage etc?

[PaulRotheram]

cmon, spill the beans then, no one want to cough details up? :-| :p pm me if it's so bad :o

thanks vicky for the grammar. although you missed somthing :jimmeh

[Rob]

Got my LRP Sphere competition and Vector 4 star for £188 including 3 day shipping and insurance from www.rcmart.com (http://www.rcmart.com) Ordered it Thursday it came this morning (Monday).

[OldTimer]

I had my 1st outing with the Sphere Comp and 3star motor yesterday at the Mid-West regional, plenty of grunt but the top end was not great, i think it was a little undergeared but i was playing it safe with it being wet and the grass you may pickup and slow down the car.

In practise the car stoped after around 3 1/2 minutes, dead as a doo doo so i guess the speedo had got to hot and cutout but when i touched the heatsink it was not to hot. After leaving the car for a good 20 minutes checked the car again, just a blue light on the speedo and nothing else :( so i guesssed the speedo had gone. Which with the weather i did not try another speedo and called it a day. Meeting was stoped after 2 rounds due to the rain.

When i got home i checked the car out, still doing the same so i started to change items, first the receiver, switched on and worked fine, so i can only guess that some damp or water maybe of got into the receiver, but really happy that speedo and motor are ok.

Was geared 16/78 on the Slim4 so next time 17 or 18 i would guess.

Btw paul i got the speedo and motor from Dom at DCracing.