Breakage issues

[jasonrcb]

I ran my x pro for the first time tonight and there seems to be as real problem developed,the rear t piece snaps right through the middle and not through bashing but under race conditons

now the problem is that it was not once but 2 races 2 breakages first run was with the x pro t piece second run was a borrowed t piece off my mate's madrat

i hope there is something going to get sorted and fast with this as there will be alot of pissed off people i know i wont be using mine again until there is something sorted and i will definately cancel the 2 i ordered for my girls

come on ansmann lets have something sorted or your car will be dropped before it gets started

[Jamie.T]

You could try boiling the plastic to make it a bit softer. I used to do this on my Ansmann vapor 1/8th lower arms and it seemed to work ok.

[jasonrcb]

I dont think that will make any difference the material is wafer thin and i dont want to have to carry half a dozen t pieces just to get through a meeting

i red somewhere that there is a brass piece along with other parts so when are they likely to be available as boiling wont cure this problem in my opinion

[budgio]

heres mine
:(
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t98/budgio/DSC_0134.jpg

[jasonrcb]

SORRY nick but i have 1 that looks just the same :mad:

[jim76]

ask Mr Atomic nicely!

[Jamie.T]

As many of you may know, the car is made in China by another company and is sold in the UK under the Ansmann name. There will be upgrades available in approx 8 weeks. Heres a list of SOME of the upgrades that will soon be available http://www.teamcracing.net/index_product_view.php?did=74095&didpath=/74095&page=1&imgid=517711

[jasonrcb]

That is an option but i think its something ansmann will have to address as anyone who wants to race the car is going to have the same problem unless you race on a car park with no bumps

[Jamie.T]

Do you or anybody else have any suggestions as to where we could possibly look to get a batch made up in a better material, possibly graphite?

[jim76]

As many of you may know, the car is made in China by another company and is sold in the UK under the Ansmann name. There will be upgrades available in approx 8 weeks. Heres a list of SOME of the upgrades that will soon be available http://www.teamcracing.net/index_product_view.php?did=74095&didpath=/74095&page=1&imgid=517711

no sign of a rear t plate

[jim76]

Do you or anybody else have any suggestions as to where we could possibly look to get a batch made up in a better material, possibly graphite?

fibrelyte or Atomic Carbon

i had a load of brass bulkheads made for the RB5 so could possibly get some brass ones made but i don;t think they would be cheap as the other bulkheads were a labour of love and didn't make any money compared to the manufacture time.

[Doomanic]

Would a Kyosho one fit?

[jasonrcb]

Well as mentioned by jim, jonathan mr atomic is an option i think brass would be good but may work out expensive as well as being expensive

[Nick Goodall]

Ryan on here is in the process of making some Shock towers and possibly steering link out of Carbon so i'll see if he can look at the T-Piece too.

[jasonrcb]

No dom the rear mounts are different already tried that tonight

[Jamie.T]

If you could look into that Nick and let me know, that will be brilliant.

Hopefully we can sort out an upgrade "T" piece soon and get this sorted guys. And a carbon piece would cool good too

[jasonrcb]

Anyone who can come up with something will be good as other than that when the car was going it has alot of potential,drives well once you get the weight in the right place

[jim76]

it's a shame if this is a design flaw as a bargain £50 capable racer is now a £80-90 car after bearings and a carbon t-plate etc

i'm still tempted though!

[jasonrcb]

Jim the car is good think thats what annoyed me the most tonight because it felt good and when it was going it was well on pace with the other 2wds

[Nick Goodall]

it's a shame if this is a design flaw as a bargain £50 capable racer is now a £80-90 car after bearings and a carbon t-plate etc

i'm still tempted though!

I think my Tamiya Madcap was around £80 back in 1992 so it still sounds good to me :lol:

I've msg'd Ryan now so we'll see what he can do, he's got a kit already and is a great little designer, i'm sure he'll be able to come up with something!

I'll speak to Trish about the possibility of making one from Brass but it could be expensive to get made....

[Rebelrc]

what about asking Trish....he is a competant fella

[Nick Goodall]

what about asking Trish....he is a competant fella

He was round here earlier checking the car out so i'll get him on the case too - He can take my plate away for now as i won't be racing for a week or 2 anyway.

[Jez]

how come no one complains about ae or kyosho cars breaking in similar ways?i caned my pro at robin hood on sunday and broke nothing.for the price i cant see why youre moaning,have you tried not hitting as many things or daft as it sounds slow down in tricky places.i cant see how the car just falls apart.if youve got an issue talk to ansmann uk direct,dont just slag em off on a forum.thanks jez.

[jasonrcb]

hold on a minutei dont know where you read anyone slagging the car off but if i had broken another make of car i would of done the same

i also dont hit things i do know how to drive the car has a weak point and with this thread lets hope it gets sorted out now just because you didnt break anything maybe you should try harder

[super sparks]

JEZ.
should have no problem with it at batleys regional the track is alot tamer than york and you had no problems with it there even though it ran straight out of the box:p

[JJ The Boat Wizzard]

how come no one complains about ae or kyosho cars breaking in similar ways?i caned my pro at robin hood on sunday and broke nothing.for the price i cant see why youre moaning,have you tried not hitting as many things or daft as it sounds slow down in tricky places.i cant see how the car just falls apart.if youve got an issue talk to ansmann uk direct,dont just slag em off on a forum.thanks jez.

calm down jez :woot: they probobly are strong cars but some peoples driving just isnt to the standard of and yours (and mine :blush:) (by the way i will beat you next time:p im not so great outdoors! offroad) plus there talking to a ansmann rep on here i think , but guys jez is right we dont slag kyosho cars off so calm down with calling it rubbish, we didnt complain about the cat outdrives (2 much:blush:) and now thats sorted so lets hope the same thing happens here , i know someone who makes custom rc parts so mabi he can knock a few up in carbon or CNC mechined ali:drool:

John :lol:

[Nick Goodall]

And............ breathe.....

I can see this one quickly getting out of hand - i think you'll all agree people like Jamie from Ansmann have been very quick to react and promptly reply so give them a minute to come up with an option.

All new cars have a weakness and by the sounds of it not everyone has found it yet so all in all it's a good start!

I was at the National Debut of the XX-4 and i think every single Team Losi driver snapped the front towers, it was soon changed and people were happy.

This problem has been reported for less then 1 hour and there are already 20 replys or so.

It WILL be sorted i'm sure :thumbsup::cool:

[JJ The Boat Wizzard]

And............ breathe.....

I can see this one quickly getting out of hand - i think you'll all agree people like Jamie from Ansmann have been very quick to react and promptly reply so give them a minute to come up with an option.

All new cars have a weakness and by the sounds of it not everyone has found it yet so all in all it's a good start!

I was at the National Debut of the XX-4 and i think every single Team Losi driver snapped the front towers, it was soon changed and people were happy.

This problem has been reported for less then 1 hour and there are already 20 replys or so.

It WILL be sorted i'm sure :thumbsup::cool:


:thumbsup::thumbsup: Totally AGREE memory's of cat outdrives breaking after every heat :cry: now thats fixed and is a ace car , this will be fixed as well just be patient :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Rebelrc]

could i machine a beefed up delrin MOFO:lol: for it do you think:)

[Jez]

hold on a minutei dont know where you read anyone slagging the car off but if i had broken another make of car i would of done the same

i also dont hit things i do know how to drive the car has a weak point and with this thread lets hope it gets sorted out now just because you didnt break anything maybe you should try harderim not dissing you or your driving.ive seen many rb5s and b4s etc break t pieces yet still not done one myself,sure i drive a lot tamer than most but many times slower can be quicker.i just dont see how it just fell apart without hitting anything.pm your address and i will send you a t piece from my spare madrat when it returns from eden park at no charge to you.i will even pay for the postage.if i gets you racing the car im happy with that.many thanks jez.

[jasonrcb]

Thats very good of you thankyou

im not giving up on the car far from it apart from this issue tonight im impressed with it and will continue to work and improve it as much as i can,and with the ideas and supoport that this has shown tonight it can only be a good thing for the car and its future development

[Rebelrc]

i take it NO! to my question then

[budgio]

i take it NO! to my question then
Yes please :D beef me one

[JJ The Boat Wizzard]

i take it NO! to my question then

lol have a blast i dont think dellrin would work tho as its needs to be thin , plus ali or carbon look better ;)

[Rebelrc]

ive not had much experience with ali or carbon.;)

[jono83]

:lol::lol:

[DCM]

Just reading this thread, so thought I would have a look at mine, mines had about 4 lipo packs through, out the garden and on the track. There are no witness marks on the T-Piece, no stress marks, no bend marks, nothing.

I am just wondering, and this isn't a criticism, how tight are you doing those fron suspension mount screw, up. Are they nipped up, tightened hard, loose? Also, were the tranny brace screws in properly.

I agree with Nick though... this could well be mountains out of mole hills. I have seen B4's get broken by one person and not another, and I for one, daren't own a Losi car, as they hate me.

[Robbiejuk]

heres mine
:(
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t98/budgio/DSC_0134.jpg

My dad has done about 10 of those on my old losi xxx last year, I broke one when i raced it in five years. I have had two b4's first one I broke one first time out and replaced it with an alloy version, the second b4 still has the original one on and has been raced for two years without even a crack. I guess sometimes you can just be unlucky with bits :D Its not unusual for companies to revise kits soon after release, Look at the b44 top decks from last year, original TC3 wishbones, etc. Both of those items were revised an replaced in kits so I am sure if it is a recurring problem then it will get changed. Plus if ti doesn't then there are enough highly skilled people on oople who will be able craft a more sutiable replacement at little extra cost.

My friend who has an RB5 has done a couple of those and has made just a carbon plate (Well actually i think he said it was part of an old egress chassis so FRP) to run underneath the car between the gearbox screws, hasn't broken one since :)

[jameswilkinson7]

Mines just gone tonite!! Car was driving great... One lap up on everyone after the first heat. Then, just a tap and thats it!!! VERY disapointed!!! I really hope we can get somthing sorted... Its a great car, handled very well and everyone was impressed by it.... Its a silly fault thats spoiling a great car. Im gunna look in to getting some kind of brace made up in steel or alloy for mine untill a proper soloution is sorted.

[ryan]

Hi everyone,

My car should hopefully be here today, so i can get all the new option parts i have in mind drawn up in CAD. I will then get these manufactured within 7-10 days!!!

Hopefully i will be able to get something sorted for the T-Piece!

Ryan

[jameswilkinson7]

Great... What materials were you thinking of using?... I thought at first it would be easy enough to get the T piece cut from stainless or alloy... But there is some machining to do so maybe alloy or carbon fiber?

[DCM]

looking at the breakages, it seems to be a factor of two things.

1. Depth of the countersink, leaving it very thin in that area

2. Insufficient gearbox bracing.

The two allow it to flex, and due the T-Piece being stiff, it is snapping along the line of the front suspension brace.

I think to fully rectify the problem, you would need to beef the material up, in that area, plus give better bracing to the rear gearbox.

[jameswilkinson7]

Yes I agree..Mine has broken in a different place to the one in the picture ... Its broken at the back where the rear part of the hinge holder is connected. The material is VERY thin here... I looked at the B4 T piece and they look to have gusseted it at that point for strength.

[jameswilkinson7]

Hows this?

[jameswilkinson7]

We could do a cad drawing of this and get them cut from 3mm aluminium, then bend them up... Just need chamfering where the gearbox sits. What do you think?

[Jamie.T]

Looks tidy, good work dude......

[DCM]

sorry, I am not a fan of alluminium, as it can tweak, be un-noticed, and cause wierd handling problems.

[jameswilkinson7]

Make it from what ever! the pattern is there!

[jameswilkinson7]

3mm Stainless wont "tweak"!

[Doomanic]

Yes it will.

[jameswilkinson7]

only if your an animal!:lol:

[losixxx]

you know Dom then! :woot:

[Doomanic]

Why do you think I've gone over to electric 1/8...:woot:

[jameswilkinson7]

LOL:D

[losixxx]

Why do you think I've gone over to electric 1/8...:woot:


errr cause Callum was beating you :o:lol:

[DCM]

3mm Stainless wont "tweak"!

you need it made from a material that will 'give' a little, but after that little, fail. With any alloy, it will give a little, then return back to it's correct shape, but you bend it past that point, and it will not return back to the original designed shape.

so it is better to have a material that will give a little, then break if you push it too far, than a material that will bend.

[jameswilkinson7]

What do you recon would be suitable? What about duraluminium? I've seen this used on rc panes under carrages where a degree of flex is needed.

[DCM]

carbon fibre, a better plastic moulding... maybe even cnc'd delrin.

[Doomanic]

errr cause Callum was beating you :o:lol:

Nah, I did a runner before he managed it.
Presumably, you'll be moving to 1/8 very soon...:woot:

[DCM]

Nah, I did a runner before he managed it.
Presumably, you'll be moving to 1/8 very soon...:woot:

I got a couple of years yet, before I become a 'tester' lol

[jameswilkinson7]

Ive done a cad drawing of the rear end including the "T" piece... Ready for laser cutting.

[JJ The Boat Wizzard]

Instead of holes on the motor guard m8 , do a fancy design perhaps a J , then i could have one too. lol but you know what i mean ive never been a big fan of just plain boaring holes

JJ

[jameswilkinson7]

Holes are easy to draw... You cant have everything!!:D

[stox217]

it be better with out the hole's i think
how about a rat face etched in :p (ovs for the madrat :lol:)

[jameswilkinson7]

Everyone hates holes!!:D

[jameswilkinson7]

Ill see what i can do!

[DCM]

this may have an abvious answer, but why are you making the t-piece with the motor guard built in, as that means, and rear hits can transfer the force, to the T-piece and cause twistage?

[jameswilkinson7]

Because where the T piece fastens to the motor guard the material is at its thinnest.
If the T piece was made to take the standard motor guard it would be weak if made from any material.
Bering in mind the way that the unit is connected to the rest of the chassis and the material thickness. I don't think there will be a problem.

[DCM]

hmmm, my engineers nose and far to long in the hobby tells me, that will just cause problems, rather than curing. If you don't get the metal rolled at the right degree of roll, correct radius and what not, then you will be forcing the guard to line up, putting a twist in the T-piece.

If you make the T-Piece out of slightly thicker, or just the same thickness but stronger material, the problem should be cured.

[jameswilkinson7]

I could do the t piece as per the kit and get it laser cut ... However this would then need an extra machining process.
I know exactly what your saying about getting bumped and it causing breakages.
Ive also thought that if the t piece is beefed up will that put stresses on the chassis in a different place that would break a different component in a bump?
Like you said previously the material needs to flex, not be rigid or break. We also need to keep the item simple so as not to make it expensive.

[Spoolio]

I'm at work and my RC10 and 'Rat are at home so I can't check but doesn't the motor guard fit in the same way on a B4? They don't break - well not often - so wouldn't it be an idea to mimic that layout. As DCM said earlier in the thread the issue is not helped by the gearbox mounting allowing some flex, but the plate being too stiff and thin to do the same hence it just fractures. I'll be fascinated to see how long mine lasts under the stresses of the kit motor :lol:.

[qatmix]

I cover the ridges with shoe glue. It strengthens the parts and still allows flex.

I'll let you know if my std (shoe glued part) snapps with my 8t brushless.

[Spoolio]

Anybody else having trouble with this? When I put the screws into the plate that came in the kit, all four holes stripped their threads before the screws got anywhere near tight. Believe me, NO force was used in fact I rolled the allen key between my finger and thumb to rotate the screws and used less effort on each one, mindful of the fact that each previous hole had stripped. I'm not a hamfisted clot (driver yes) and this must be at least the 20th car I've built so while I don't profess to know it all, I do have a vague idea what I'm doing. A new plate has arrived today which looks marginal darker green than the kit one but it's just done the same effin' thing on the first screw I've put into it. It's currently on the bench and I've put the remaining 3 screws in and every one is mega-baggy, but an M3x10 screw goes with much less play. I'm wondering if A) the screws are not right, B) the plate is substandard or C) I don't know my own strength. Whatever, it is really peeing me off as it's basically a fiver down the can every time.

[DCM]

I believe there is an issue there, with that, contact the shop or Ansmann, as I believe there was a batch, that got released with holes slightly over sized before tapping, so the threads were shallow.

[budgio]

Yep i have the same problem...Highly annoying isnt it :mad:
Both my kits had the same problem.

[Spoolio]

Yep i have the same problem...Highly annoying isnt it :mad:
Both my kits had the same problem.

Did you eventually get a replacement plate that was OK?

[budgio]

Not tried yet,only stripped 1 hole/screw on each plate so they are just holding.But i know exactly what you mean when you say NO FORCE.
I,ll give the shop a ring where i bought mine and see what they say.

[carty]

mine did exactly the same! looks like we have found another issue, 2 of the 4 holes failed first time with little or no force, not good :mad:
To be honest quality control could spoil a good car as i was going to buy the macnum truck aswell. Im now not so sure

[carty]

looking at some m/sport pictures the pro seems to have silver motor plate in it, is that the case? as the mad rat is a green alloy and maybe inferior to it

[Spoolio]

Anybody with an X-Pro care to comment? DCM, Mr Goodall?

[DCM]

X-pro, had no motor plate issue's, and mine is green.

[Nick Goodall]

Anybody with an X-Pro care to comment? DCM, Mr Goodall?

Yeah mine is the X-Pro and has the Green plate - No issues so far!

[carty]

you can of course use a nut and fraction longer machine screw on the plate as it works and has room to clear, its what ive done

[Colinevan]

As its been mentioned now. Yes there is a problem...

My Madrat, all 4 screws were rubbish, finger tight on the thread and it wouldnt tighten up.

Ansmann were really good, and supplied a new plate, which is of much higher quality. It actually looks different as if it has also had the sides machined to be super smooth, rather than resembling a rough casting type finish if that makes sense. A slight variant of green as well.

I also had a rubber diaphram missing on one of my shocks, when i filled it with oil, i was checking the rebound pack, and wondered at first why it didnt drop down at all lol.

Col.

[Bazzokajoe]

any solution to the t plate breakeages yet? :( really need one as im intending on racing next weekend...

[Nick Goodall]

any solution to the t plate breakeages yet? :( really need one as im intending on racing next weekend...

The Carbon ones are nearly done i'm told and should be available through Ansmann direct - I'll try and find out exactly when but i'm sure you should be able to get another standard plastic one from somewhere?

[Battle_axe]

The Carbon ones are nearly done i'm told and should be available through Ansmann direct - I'll try and find out exactly when but i'm sure you should be able to get another standard plastic one from somewhere?

j&l have them great service from them aswell

[Bazzokajoe]

do you have a link to the plastic one? i can only see them as out of stock...
i have mine braced with aluminum at the moment, keeps the crack together and doesnt change the angles at the back too much :)