4WD MKI-4

[cmgreen]

Seems like theres another xx-4 take off around.
Any one seen one of these in action?


http://www.iq-tuning.ch/en/4wdmki-4.html

[footey]

i think this is what tyrc is selling:confused:

[BenG]

Hi, I am getting my first MKI4 this week, will let you know how good it is;)

[ryan]

i think it looks pretty impressive, would like to race it and compare it to a xx4 some time:p

Ryan

[jimmy]

I've a load of photos of this car, I will try put them up tonight

[BenG]

Ryan PM me;)

[andys]

Hasn't this car / conversion thing being around for ages, I saw this site ages ago. Does the name indicate it's version 4 ?

It does look a bit 'Scrap-Heap Challenge' to me though

PS TYRC this is not a dig / flame etc, just a comment.

[BenG]

hehe, scrap heap challenge with carbon fiber?

Sounds good:D

[SCOTT DICKINSON]

I realy like it:)
i saw it also a while back
and markus has emailed me a couple of times then all went quiet...
glad to see its back and looks like its doing very well over seas
Markus if your reading this WELL DONE MATE
keep me posted:)

[MattW]

Yeah seen the car before, the guy was at the Belgian GP last year i think. Had a look at the car in his pit.

[jimmy]

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/spy-mki4/ (http://www.oople.com/forums/../rc/photos/spy-mki4/)

[BenG]

Got my MKI4 today, only ordered it on Monday, and its here. I will be building and reviewing it tonight, I cant wait.

Heres a few things I noticed when I ripped open the box this morning:
- The amount of parts used is amazing, great value
- All parts are cracking quality
- You get a screw driver with it ;):D

[daz]

Bit bloody expensive at £350!!!! To say all it is, is a XX4 clone

[BenG]

I wouldn't say a clone, rather, an improvement.

With the MKi4 you get tonnes of extras, like hop-ups, dirtsheilds e.t.c, plus the crash back arms, that are going to save me money, and from losing races. Also, it adds the functionality, that you can use parts from several cars.

I like it;)

[jimmy]

For a low volume exclusive car of any description - you are going to be paying a premium over what everyone else is running.

[Nick Goodall]

I guess it's completely un-proven so the cost / value for money doesn't even come into it until the car's being used in the UK and getting results - that's the only way it will sell to be fair.

[BenG]

dont worry, I am looking for Uk drivers, and the car will come with a set-up by a well known, whoop ass, Uk driver ;)

[Nick Goodall]

Who? lol, i don't know of anyone that runs this car??

[BenG]

Who? lol, i don't know of anyone that runs this car??

They wont be running it, they will just be setting it up;)

[Nick Goodall]

That's quite difficult without running it to be honest...... :wtf:

[DCM]

Bit bloody expensive at £350!!!! To say all it is, is a XX4 clone

I think that is just a little unfair, the guy has done what lots of people think of doing with the XX4, ditching it's drivetrain, and with this, the weight distribution and layou has been kept the same, plus I think it is the best of both worlds.

Proof will be in the running though.

[Funkymojo]

I think the design looks good...the parts looks pretty well made too...i wouldnt mind racing one....Markus Heini, the designer and maker of the MKI-4 is a really nice chap too, i've emailed him..he know's what he's doing and is very friendly with his replies...Cheers ;)

[BenG]

That's quite difficult without running it to be honest...... :wtf:


They won't be running it for the full season I meant. I am 1/3rd of the way through building my MKI4, and I like it.

[Sebastian]

Hi guys. I got an MKI-4 a while ago for a review in Racer Germany. Here are some pics in my tamiyaclub.com showroom. http://tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=57089&sid=14186 Feel free to ask questions about it.

I raced it last weekend at a smaller indoor race in Nothern Germany and I was able to pull the most constant laps with it. It wasn't the fastest but the most consistent. I stood on P2 for the finals but due to my conservative style of driving and a broken crash back arm I dropped to P5 in the final standing.

Cheers

Seb

[BenG]

wow Sabastien, I love your shell and yellow wheels.....


They are cool...

I have nearly finished mine, and will be makign a few adjustments to creating my own edition, a few CNC parts I guess ;)

Thanks,

BEn

[Funkymojo]

wow Sabastien, I love your shell and yellow wheels.....


They are cool...

I have nearly finished mine, and will be makign a few adjustments to creating my own edition, a few CNC parts I guess ;)

Thanks,

BEn


Wow would love to see what adjustments you gonna make, cos as far as i see, the MKI4 is already as good as it is...:D

[DCM]

There are some areas that, structuraly needs sorting, and others, astheticaly plus using common threads, not imperial or metric. The idea is good, it needs finishing.

[Sebastian]

wow Sabastien, I love your shell and yellow wheels.....
I have nearly finished mine, and will be makign a few adjustments to creating my own edition, a few CNC parts I guess

Thanks, Ben.

I agree that it could need a few tewaks here and there. I'd like to get rid of the "woodscrews" or what ever you call it for some proper hex screws. And, most important, I would like to see the middle bulkhead (the part where the layshafts and the motor are attached) in "Hudy style" black alloy. Nicely milled to safe weight but strong enough to hold the hold and the keep the motor even cooler. :)

And Ben: you should do yourself a favour and create some cover for the rear diff! Grab a decal sheet and cut it to slide over the outdrives so that it fit onto the pulley. The "uncovered" diff is the only week point I discovered so far. :(

Cheers

Seb

[BenG]

Thanks, Ben.

I agree that it could need a few tewaks here and there. I'd like to get rid of the "woodscrews" or what ever you call it for some proper hex screws. And, most important, I would like to see the middle bulkhead (the part where the layshafts and the motor are attached) in "Hudy style" black alloy. Nicely milled to safe weight but strong enough to hold the hold and the keep the motor even cooler. :)

And Ben: you should do yourself a favour and create some cover for the rear diff! Grab a decal sheet and cut it to slide over the outdrives so that it fit onto the pulley. The "uncovered" diff is the only week point I discovered so far. :(

Cheers

Seb

Thanks mate.

I had already those in mind, plus maybe new shock towers e.t.c

[xx4-nutter]

i think the car looks cool, but i think the xx4 is still FAR supriour to this .....

the car looks very "90s" ? / yokomo yz10 ish ?:confused: .. maybe just me but i dunno not too keen on this, dont look too bad or good either..

Garry D.

[Col]

So from what I can make out, this car runs XX4 shocks and geometry? Set-up should be exactly the same as a XX4 and X5 then. There you go ben - job done!!;)

[Mr. Ideas]

Hi senior & junior racers!

Let me drop some lines from it's designer point of view :cool: It uses the SAME suspension as the XX-4 (except the rear damper rod is 1.0" and not 1.2" as the XX-4) - dampers, parts, same geometrie. So it handles & drives as a XX-4 WE - and I like that:) The MKI-4 has some goodies that the XX-4 has not: Roll-Center adjustable (can move all 4 blue suspension holders up & down), much better motor cooling and of course faster acceleration & higher top speed.
It's faster & more robust & takes less care time & has more setup-possibilies than the XX-4 WE. Shall we try Garry?;)

One very valuable setup possibility is that You can change the rear roll-center within 2 min. I often raise it by 1-2 mm and this quickens steering & gives more grip in turns. Sometimes I mount the BJ-4 front hub (as run @ the Euros 2006) -> drives as a BJ-4 Worlds.
By the way: The MKI-4 is as fast as the BJ-4 Worlds (current World Champ). In Switzerland (where I live) everyone sees that when looking at these cars. 2006 it was my driver error what let me loose the 2nd consecutive Swiss Champ title - 2005 1st, 2006 2nd place with the MKI-4.

Last but not least: I have fun & it makes fun!
Last week I run it on low grip asphalt outdoors with a similar setup (removed anti-roll bars, softer springs, a bit higher) as I used before on high grip carpet indoors - and it's cool again, it's fun & fast!:)

Markus

[super__dan]

Ben,

sooooooooooooo?

[NeilD]

The car doesn't look "right" i can't explain but on initial impressions i don't like it. (Blinkered, maybe...)

[BenG]

I have built it, lets just say I won't be selling it.

I will run it and see what its like.

Thanks.

[tc2k]

The shell looks rank but the chassis looks nice

[losidan]

i quite like the whole look...including the shell

[Funkymojo]

I have built it, lets just say I won't be selling it.

I will run it and see what its like.

Thanks.

Hi matey..so how's the buggy? You were saying that you wanna make some custom parts for it right? Not selling it anymore? Any reviews? This thread is kinda quiet...i see that you are posting more in the Aero thread...LOL

[losidan]

Hi matey..so how's the buggy? You were saying that you wanna make some custom parts for it right? Not selling it anymore? Any reviews? This thread is kinda quiet...i see that you are posting more in the Aero thread...LOL

i think it might be a bit of a sore point but come on ben...spill the beans

[BenG]

Yes this car is a whopping great sore point.


It cost me £376 (I could of got an Aero A-One :(:(:(:(:(, which has really peed me off).

Instead I got:

-A cardbox filled with a printed (as in normal computer printed), microsoft word made manual, several pounds worth of AE and losi bits, and these really cool woodscrews, with the worlds best cross heads :mad:

-The thinnest carbon money can buy, it flexes if you breathe on it.

- The transmission is soooooooo tight, its unbleivable.

- The shell sucks, and has a 2 holes wider than the atlantic ocean

- The 'structural' parts are, roughly(to say the least) cut from acrylic, and the kick-up plate is just bent aluminum.

And I was sooo happy that for my £376 worth, I got some blue bits :D

The best thing is, the battery mount, which I am using, temporarily on my prototype car, and the body mounts, which arent off the MKI4 anyway, I think they are Losi Items.

Add to this lot, my dad keeps telling me how stupid a buy was, and throwing more salt on my wound, then Aero racing release the A one, which I would have so bought and had money left over, which is the equivalent of 500 portions of mcdonalds fries been pored on the seething gash the MKI4 left on me. :D:D

[tc2k]

Ill take it off your hands free of charge

[Funkymojo]

Got my MKI4 today, only ordered it on Monday, and its here. I will be building and reviewing it tonight, I cant wait.

Heres a few things I noticed when I ripped open the box this morning:
- The amount of parts used is amazing, great value
- All parts are cracking quality
- You get a screw driver with it ;):D


Mate...from your earlier post you seem to rave about the quality of the parts and in your most recent post you described it as though it's a pile of junk...so which is which? Is the car really that bad or you've got a change of heart??...cough...cough...Aero A-One...cough...cough

[BenG]

Mate...from your earlier post you seem to rave about the quality of the parts and in your most recent post you described it as though it's a pile of junk...so which is which? Is the car really that bad or you've got a change of heart??...cough...cough...Aero A-One...cough...cough

Parts quality are great, its just the building methods, cross heads, and carbon is a little thin. ;)

Oh and the woodscrews.

Honestly, perhaps I was previously blinded by other motives, and was foolish to buy this car in the first place.

[andys]

Hasn't this car / conversion thing being around for ages, I saw this site ages ago. Does the name indicate it's version 4 ?

It does look a bit 'Scrap-Heap Challenge' to me though

PS TYRC this is not a dig / flame etc, just a comment.


Enough said, lesson learn't I guess ?

[BenG]

Enough said, lesson learn't I guess ?

definitely, I must start listening to other people more lol.

[Lee Martin]

its one ugly car!

[super__dan]

Ben, you live near Batley right? Are you coming on Sunday, I look forward to meeting you and seeing what car you actually race ;)

[xx4-nutter]

is that servo held in witha blooody cable tie ? :confused:

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/spy-mki4/imagepages/mk09.html (http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/spy-mki4/imagepages/mk09.html)

that isnt any good, or the looks the shell looks shiz lol nearly 400 new ?

jaffers to that lol

Garry D.

[BenG]

Ben, you live near Batley right? Are you coming on Sunday, I look forward to meeting you and seeing what car you actually race ;)

I do live near Batley, but cant race on sunday.

I could pop round and show you my cars, however that would spoil my anonymous car guise :p

[PaulRotheram]

I say get the car built properly, dont look bad on the loss you think you have.. make the car better.

Run the car as standard, improove things, make the car work.. get it on the ruddy track!:)

[BenG]

is that servo held in witha blooody cable tie ? :confused:

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/spy-mki4/imagepages/mk09.html (http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/spy-mki4/imagepages/mk09.html)

that isnt any good, or the looks the shell looks shiz lol nearly 400 new ?

jaffers to that lol

Garry D.

Garry, it is held in with a cable tie, oh wait, and some servo tape :D:D:D:D

Also not the servo arm, it is closer to the spur gear ( Mine touches) than Corgis are to the queen :o

[PaulRotheram]

as my above comment.. stop looking at the bad things.. look at the good things and make the bad things better !

[BenG]

as my above comment.. stop looking at the bad things.. look at the good things and make the bad things better !

I can see what your saying, but I dont want to have the burden of re-designing the car, as its a scary thought, plus, I wouldnt want to spend sub £380 on a car, that I have to spend countless more £'s on to improove :(

[PaulRotheram]

You dont have to! :) get the car built to a worthy standard and hit the track! get a good set up and make it better that way.

you dont have to improove things by re designing the car.. a set up is a big change in its own right. The car looks as though it has a good weight distribution, and could handle with some work.

You can only make it better with track time.. get down to the track and start playing.. that's where the fun is to be had.

There are pleanty of people to help you to make it better, ask a question and an answer will be given.. if you want the car to do somthing.. ask.. and people can give input on what to do.

It's even better to do this at race meetings.. as it always gets done there and then.. I'm so appreciative of the people who helped me out at tivvy, i normally do everything my self, but with asking peoples opinions, it made my weekend.

[BenG]

You dont have to! :) get the car built to a worthy standard and hit the track! get a good set up and make it better that way.

you dont have to improove things by re designing the car.. a set up is a big change in its own right. The car looks as though it has a good weight distribution, and could handle with some work.

You can only make it better with track time.. get down to the track and start playing.. that's where the fun is to be had.

There are pleanty of people to help you to make it better, ask a question and an answer will be given.. if you want the car to do somthing.. ask.. and people can give input on what to do.

It's even better to do this at race meetings.. as it always gets done there and then.. I'm so appreciative of the people who helped me out at tivvy, i normally do everything my self, but with asking peoples opinions, it made my weekend.

spose, I will get it put back together then, and give it some serious track time.

There aint no way on this earth am gonna get my money back.

SO I should make use of it ;)
Thganks man

[Ron Burgundy]

I wouldn't say a clone, rather, an improvement.

With the MKi4 you get tonnes of extras, like hop-ups, dirtsheilds e.t.c, plus the crash back arms, that are going to save me money, and from losing races. Also, it adds the functionality, that you can use parts from several cars.

I like it;)

funny stuff:D

[Ron Burgundy]

Yes this car is a whopping great sore point.


It cost me £376 (I could of got an Aero A-One :(:(:(:(:(, which has really peed me off).

Instead I got:

-A cardbox filled with a printed (as in normal computer printed), microsoft word made manual, several pounds worth of AE and losi bits, and these really cool woodscrews, with the worlds best cross heads :mad:

-The thinnest carbon money can buy, it flexes if you breathe on it.

- The transmission is soooooooo tight, its unbleivable.

- The shell sucks, and has a 2 holes wider than the atlantic ocean

- The 'structural' parts are, roughly(to say the least) cut from acrylic, and the kick-up plate is just bent aluminum.

And I was sooo happy that for my £376 worth, I got some blue bits :D

The best thing is, the battery mount, which I am using, temporarily on my prototype car, and the body mounts, which arent off the MKI4 anyway, I think they are Losi Items.

Add to this lot, my dad keeps telling me how stupid a buy was, and throwing more salt on my wound, then Aero racing release the A one, which I would have so bought and had money left over, which is the equivalent of 500 portions of mcdonalds fries been pored on the seething gash the MKI4 left on me. :D:D

THIS IS THE FUNNIEST QUOTE, ESPECIALLY THE FIRST LINE (WHEN PUT INTO CONTEXT FROM THE START OF THE THREAD) BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

IN FACT THE WHOLE THREAD IS LIKE A GOOD DREAM GONE BAD!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA SORRY BENNYBOY BUT ITS SO FUNNY (NOT YOUR MISFORTUNE, JUST THE WHOLE THING!)

[jimmy]

I can't disagree with you Ron, it makes me chuckle out loud.

[BenG]

lol, well I aim to make people chuckle with my outlandish and impulsive buying.

I guess I will just have to stick with this car, stop beefing and make it fly.

I would just like to point out, when I debut this car, if I win, I could of done better with another car ;):D

[jimmy]

Fair enough, but I did meet the designer and - OK he is a good driver, but the car looks very good to me on the track.

If you want a car that looks the part, maybe go with something else - but if you don't care then theres nothing stopping this car winning at all, only your driving :D

[BenG]

haha.

I must admit, not its all together, its not so bad.

I recon with some improvements, I can get it going round Batley and York on a Saturday night nicely.

Not that I will win, with my photo-chopped veloc2, and a swiss made 1980 style RC car tribute

[jimmy]

What improvements do you mean though, cosmetic or design or setup?
All most cars need is a setup, if you can't get there with a setup then a slight design change might be in order. But everything i know about this car suggests it is capable.

[BenG]

Design and set-up;)

[Mr. Ideas]

Looks like it's time for some objectiv facts and not subjective I-think-that:

Tell us Ben, did You race it? On which tracks were You with the MKI-4? How many laps did You do without an error?

Let me just remind You that the MKI-4 is as good as the current World Champ 4 WD car. Why? I almost won my 2nd consecutive Swiss Champ title agains BJ-4 Worlds and equal driver & setup abilities. It was my driver fault :eh?: that led to 2nd place 2006 - it was not the car.:) If the car is really a piece of crap it would not be capable to do this.
Simply check out on http://www.iq-tuning.ch/en/4wdmki-4.html and form Your opinion.

By the way: These are special thermoplast srews, PT-screws, maybe someone knows, not wood-screws, and far better than 4-40 screws for this purpose. And when You use a proper Ph #1 screwdriver You have no problems. I would have supplied Hex-head-screws but these are not available for all sizes used on the MKI-4.

[Lee Martin]

trying to say the MK1-4 is as good as a BJ?

[jimmy]

Trying to say it isn't lee? :D

[Nick Goodall]

Do you think the guy will still want Ben to distribute the car in the UK now he's seen first hand what Ben said about it? :D

[BenG]

Do you think the guy will still want Ben to distribute the car in the UK now he's seen first hand what Ben said about it? :D

I am no longer distributing or selling this car.

I have emailed Markus, and we are on the same page, all is well.

I'd love to continue using this car personally.

[super__dan]

I'd love to continue using this car personally.


Well as you've bought it why not?

Ben, I can't make the meeting this Sunday but come to Batley sometime (or any NE regional) and race the car, let us all see it and meet you, is it just me that's never met you???

[BenG]

Well as you've bought it why not?

Ben, I can't make the meeting this Sunday but come to Batley sometime (or any NE regional) and race the car, let us all see it and meet you, is it just me that's never met you???

I met Jimmy once, at a touring car club.

I think I gave stickers to someone at Batley once, maybe Chris Long?

till then, I remain the masked avenger. :D

[Sebastian]

I have to say that I still love using the car. I raced it mainly indoors so far but at the weekend we have our first outdoor meeting this year.

Sure, it looks a bit different and DIY-ish but hey - there are a lot of guys out there that love that kind of look. ;)

Some weeks ago I finished 2nd in a large off-road race here in Germany in front of some TTech Predator's, Tamiya TRF501x's and JConcept BJ4's. Not bad for a 'home made' car I guess ... :rolleyes:

Anyway. I think Ben did Markus wrong with the harsh words he used about his car. :o

Cheers

Seb

[BenG]

I have to say that I still love using the car. I raced it mainly indoors so far but at the weekend we have our first outdoor meeting this year.

Sure, it looks a bit different and DIY-ish but hey - there are a lot of guys out there that love that kind of look. ;)

Some weeks ago I finished 2nd in a large off-road race here in Germany in front of some TTech Predator's, Tamiya TRF501x's and JConcept BJ4's. Not bad for a 'home made' car I guess ... :rolleyes:

Anyway. I think Ben did Markus wrong with the harsh words he used about his car. :o

Cheers

Seb

I didn't do Markus wrong. I am allowed to form an opinion. Also, I am equally allowed to not sell this, we didn't enter into any contract of sort. ;)

[Sebastian]

I am allowed to form an opinion.

Sure. Same as I ... ;)

[BenG]

Sure. Same as I ... ;)

lol. Ok

[super__dan]

I met Jimmy once, at a touring car club.

I think I gave stickers to someone at Batley once, maybe Chris Long?

till then, I remain the masked avenger. :D

So have you ever actually been to an off road meeting/race?

I'm not getting funny here, just trying to understand how much expereince you have with 4wd off road.

[daz]

nothing personal BenG.. I just think you are a no0b

[Col]

I was always surprised that a person on Markus's obvious engineering abilities and skill as a driver were never translated into business sense. Wether the build quality is upto scratch or not, the finished product is extremely capeable as seen by Seb's results and the fact that this car was at the Euro's (all be it with a talented driver behind the wheel) When Ben (or "TYRC") said he was selling it, does that mean that he was going to become an importer, or was he just hoping to cream some money from the off-road comunity and place each order with Markus individually and not stock the kit at all? Either way, this was a business error as I believe that you should look into the people who promote your product ( as they are the ones who are looking after your reputation)

That's the long winded version of what I believe Daz was trying to say;)

[BenG]

well, i've been into buggies sinve I got my TC 4 years ago.

I'll be making more race apperances this year

[DCM]

I think I prefer the beleif that if it looks right, it normaly is right. Not trying to ruffle feathers or poke fun, but for someone trying to 'sell' a car, there needs to be some serious attention to detail to make the car more 'presentable' to make it more appealing.

When you are touting the car in the same price bracket as most mainstream 4wd buggies, you got to have something that makes the car worth buying, as it is, all the other offerings have far better quality of look and feel, plus heritage, I know where I would spend my money.

But also, I think you could take some constructive criticism from this thread and look at the car to see if you can improve things to make it more appealing for the majority of racers.

[Mr. Ideas]

DCM, good point "look & feel", let me (as designer & maker) drop some lines to this. First I go back a bit in history:

2004, Euros in Torino: Jörn Neumann & Peter Pinisch won with Durango, Jukka Steenari 3rd on XXX-4 (he was forced to run the XXX-4, could not race the XX-4). Then the following good cars were available for everyone: XXX-4, BJ-4 (not Worlds). I run XXX-4 and did not like it. So in autumn 2004 I started to develop the MKI-4.

2005, Worlds in Torino: 1st Ryan Cavalieri with BJ-4 Worlds Prototype, 2nd Neil Cragg with MR-4 BX Prototype, 3rd Ryan Maifiels with BJ-4 Worlds Prototype, 4th Billy Easton with XX-4 WE, 10th Atsushi Hara with Durango. My MKI-4 prototype was OK, better as the driver, 74th :eh?: ) Soon after the following good cars were available for everyone: BJ-4 Worlds, XX-4 WE (Re-released), XXX-4, MR-4 BX, X-5.

2006: The following good cars are available for everyone: BJ-4 Worlds, XX-4 WE (Re-released), XXX-4, MR-4 BX, X-5, ZX-5, MKI-4 (since Jan 06)

2007: Now available: BJ-4 Worlds, XX-4 WE (Re-released), XXX-4, MR-4 BX, X-5, ZX-5, TRF 501X, MKI-4 - plenty of good cars to choose from! :)

Sure - the MKI-4 has a prototype look & feel. Certainly - DCM "all the other offerings have far better quality of look and feel, plus heritage, I know where I would spend my money". This makes that most racers will choose another car than the MKI-4 - although the MKI-4 has some goodies others don't have. Here is why:
The MKI-4 got developed by one man (with lots of helping hands - thanks guys:cool: ) with his private money & huuuge efforts (Don't do it - unless You are crazy as me). Since I don't have 50'000 £ and excellent relations to a manufacturer there is no way to build moulds & tools to have the look & feel like Losi or Tamiya or Kyosho.
This makes the MKI-4 an excellent 4 WD race car with prototype look & feel that is produced in small series by an "extraordinary" racer for a bunch of other "extraordinary" racers! Clearly the MKI-4 is not for Mr. Everyone.

Finally: The MKI-4 is the better XX-4 and as good as the best cars available. Those guys who have it are happy with it & don't regret to have bought it (except one guy there in Great Britain :p ). Hope You can grab a radio linked to a MKI-4 once to try it Yourself!

[DCM]

Mr Ideas, may I suggest then, you go look at Atomic Carbon, they have made a conversion for a current car, which yours is, the S4 looks stunning, well finished etc. Just because it is made in your garage, don't mean it has to be rough.

[super__dan]

Steve that's hardly fair, look at how much the S4 is, the contacts Jonathan obviously has etc. It's a great car but you have to buy one of the most expensive cars around, then buy the most expensive conversion around, is that then like twice the price of this guys car???

[sosidge]

To give Mr. Ideas his due, the MKI-4 is a significant re-engineering of the XX-4.

Among other things he is running a redesigned transmission and redesigned suspension parts as well as the carbon chassis.

From what I have seen of the Atomic Carbon car it is little more than a chassis conversion, yes it seems to be done to a nice quality but it is the same quality you would expect from their chassis supplier. The only machined parts I can see on it to date are the steering cranks, again that has been done to a good standard. However the transmission and basic suspension components are from a BJ4 but with Losi shocks.

The MKI-4 has a totally different and rather unusual drivetrain layout, to hold that together requires many more custom parts. But I agree that the presentation on some of these parts falls short of what people might expect, regardless of the limited production numbers.

However it is obvious that the car works as it would not get the results it has done to date.

It is just unfortunate that BenG has bought the car. By reading through his posts in this thread you can tell that - to be blunt - he hasn't got a clue.

I'm sure the MKI-4 will survive this minor setback though!

[OldTimer]

From what I have seen of the Atomic Carbon car it is little more than a chassis conversion

There is a lot more to the S4 than just a new chassis ;) the devil is in the detail.

[Doomanic]

nothing personal BenG.. I just think you are a no0b

Are there too many letters in the last word of that quote?:D

[DCM]

Dan, it is fair, if the guy wants people to buy it, careless of the price, if the quality isn't up to scratch then it puts people off. Don't get me wrong, I admire those who go out and make their own chassis, and the rough and ready for a homebrew conversion is fina and fair, but to then sell it, thats like Ben selling his B4 thingy conversion..... most people just wouldn't.

[Col]

.....thats like Ben selling his B4 thingy conversion.....

Isn't that exactly what TYRC intends to do?

[DCM]

is it, oh my......

[matt]

well, i've been into buggies sinve I got my TC 4 years ago.

I'll be making more race apperances this year

BUT how many times have you driven off road.

[Col]

is it, oh my......

Indeed;)
http://www.oople.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34111&postcount=1

[BenG]

ok lets set you lot straight.

1. I'll only sell something commercially viable. You are best buying this direct from Markus.

2. How half of you can comment on me been a 'noob' and 'clueless' tickles me, as non of you will have seen an mki4 in the flesh, let alone after shelling 360+ out, of your own cash. I bet if I said, sell your x10's, bj4we's, xx4's, zx5's, x5's (e.t.c) and get one of these, your 'support' for the mki4 would totter.....

3. I am not selling my b4 convo.


4. The S4 is not even in the same league as the Mki4.

I am sure, when you buy an S4 and build it, you feel happy and contented. The quality is immense.

The mki4 however leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth, and one of feeling you are actually manafacturing, let alone assembling a kit.

That said, Markus has done well to create this. However, if is built in his garage, then the price does not match.

n0ob that.

By the way, only geeky teenagers say 'n0ob'. If you wish to insult me, please do it less ironically.

[Mrs oOple]

By the way, only geeky teenagers say 'n0ob'. If you wish to insult me, please do it less ironically.

Ben, we don't advocate use of offensive language around here due to the number of younger people involved in the hobby, and of course for people who are offended by such words. I believe that noOb in this instance was one persons way of expressing their feelings without causing offence.

[BenG]

I appreciate that.

However, in this case noob (short for newbie or beginner) offended me, sed person having never seen this car in the flesh.

Somebody even suggesting to take a o out.

That's what I get for trying to save people money, and advuse them about this car.

[Funkymojo]

Don't worry Ben..my mate will take the MKI4 off you...both my mate and i like the MKI4's design and concept. You and i already have a deal...the MKI4 won't be in your hands for long :)

[super__dan]

Dan, it is fair, if the guy wants people to buy it, careless of the price, if the quality isn't up to scratch then it puts people off.


:D Weren't you always telling people how good that piece of crap academy was for ages, I can imagine that had far more time/money spent on that and the quality of loads of it was rubbish (monkey metal parts, more flex than a gymnast, etc etc). Whilst I'm not an enormous fan of this car I think this guy has done something inovative and is getting a bum deal on this thread.

[DCM]

Dan thats like you and the X-6, you got to whether you like it or not, when they are offering you stuff, heehee.

Nobody is saying his concept is duff, but his fit and finish leave a little to be desired (a lot in some places) and thats all he would have to do, is make it more presentable and less 'finishing' work required.

[tc2k]

ok lets set you lot straight.
2. How half of you can comment on me been a 'noob' and 'clueless' tickles me, as non of you will have seen an mki4 in the flesh,

4. The S4 is not even in the same league as the Mki4.


Are you not contradicting yourself, youve probably never built an S4 yourself yet are saying its better. Although it looks better, your jumping to conclusions without owning one, exactly what your criticising people for

[BenG]

Are you not contradicting yourself, youve probably never built an S4 yourself yet are saying its better. Although it looks better, your jumping to conclusions without owning one, exactly what your criticising people for

Perhaps maybe I am. Now you see how impossible it is for anyone to comnent truly on this car, except sebastien, mr. ideas and me.

[Funkymojo]

I feel Ben should practice certain discretion when describing the MKI4..the stuff he wrote were pretty uncalled for, if it was me..i'll get really pissed too...Ben, i know you're trying to be mr nice guy by warning others not to get the buggy but ultimately it's personal choice...eventhough the MKI4 didnt work out for you, you shouldnt have said what you've said.

[NeilD]

Well said Sherman.

[Funkymojo]

Well said Sherman.


Thanks Neil...well i think it's not right to put down anyone or anything is such a manner..there are some buggies out there that i simply loathe but i don't go around slacking or bad mouthing it. Well, no one thing can please everyone. It works for some, and for some..it doesnt. Constructive criticism and sarcastic bashing are two different things altogether...Hope you know the difference between the two Ben :)

[BenG]

I do Sherm

This car is unique.

Different to any other, take your time when building it, and you'll have one superb car. Seriously, on track Markus and Sebastien have prooven this.

[Funkymojo]

I do Sherm

This car is unique.

Different to any other, take your time when building it, and you'll have one superb car. Seriously, on track Markus and Sebastien have prooven this.

Hi Ben, i'm sure the car is superb..i like it since the first time i saw it. At times, your words are confusing cause one minute, you're bashing the MKI4 and the next you said it's a superb car but no worries i'll be the judge of it myself. The MKI4 is one of the few buggies i liked since i first saw it..other buggies are the Atomic Carbon S4, Yokomo MR4BX and the Durango... :)

[Welshy40]

Mmmmm Ben it appears to me that you are still very much an amateur, which is by no means a problem.

However I am hearing words from the grapevine that say the car was not built correctly in the first place by you.

Maybe you need to learn how to build a car before you start annoying people by saying things that lets be honest are not true.

Also I would point out that you also need to learn how to build a diff and also learn about camber and castor as from what I am hearing is almost funny.

You need to read the instructions and follow it step by step and hey presto like the rest of the RC racers here we have a well built car.

If you want to redesign something then buy a well built good car (which I am sorry to say you did) that is doing well and set it up, learn how to drive and on the road to greatness you will find and see alternatives that will improve your car and you.

I have done just this and redesigned a 4wd and it is not that expensive and is well worth it if it is done correctly, no rush jobs as it will never work. heck people are buying it so it must be good.

I will also say this you need to do a hell of a lot of work on your 2wd design. The idea is there but it looks like a chop job, sorry but it does. Where as you could have spent some time and patience and got the items made to suit your design, cheaply from a manufacturer instead of doing it yourself. Do yourself a favour and do it properly and slowly, and use lines that suit the car and are also practical for everyone. I would also use the same screws all round and design the battery holder differently. The screw sizes appear to be the wrong length in certain areas, so it does seem rather a rushed job. Do it in stages, front first, rear second and chassis last. Oh yes and maybe you should reconsider the wheel base as well.

But only when you are a good driver can you slag off individuals and products, and at the moment you are no where near that.

[mattym0310]

i think saying that is abit harsh. all you are going on is what you have heard from other individuals, or things that could have been passed on and exaggerated. yeh, so what if his car doesnt look spot on, look at almost any proto-type car, they arnt supposed to look amazing when they are the first thing. cars can be developed over time, he has said things will be changed on his own car. and about the MKI-4 that is his own opinion of which everyone is entitled too.

[AndyM]

i think pre-judging him like that is a bit harsh!

almost evrything you have sed in that 'rant' is something yoo hav heard off some1 else. You shouldn't just go and blaim him for things that you have 'heard off the grapevine'

give the guy a brake, nd maybe offer kind remarks, not...its all rong! Like matty sed, its only a proto.

Also, you say he is no-where near being a good driver. How would you know that? or is it something else you herd 'off the grape vine?'

rant over:D

[Funkymojo]

I received the MKI4 from Ben...it's really nice of Ben to spray the bodyshell for me. I'll give a fair assessment of the car the way i received it, the parts are pretty well made, but Ben didn't build the car too well. First the shocks were leaking badly, the diffs were extremely gritty, belts way too tight...my mate and i spent the whole day rebuilding the car. We found out that some screws were misplaced and screwed in all the wrong places, the front and rear lower gearbox screw threads were stripped. The whole central motor frame was crooked, car was set up with weird camber angles. Ben, you're a nice chap, easy to deal with and accommodating. Please do not take it the wrong way matey, i'm not angry with you. The car looked ok at first glance, but when my mate and i started rebuilding it, we found loads of mistakes and poor building. It looked as though when you were building it, either you built without looking at the instruction manual or that you were rushing. My mate thought that the MKI4 was built by a first time RC car kit builder and was pretty shocked when i told him i got it from someone who's got experience in RC. After many hours of rebuilding and setting up, the car's tranmission is really smooth and is no longer tight, central motor mount has been straighten out and it's no longer crooked. Overall it's a nice car with a prototype feel to it. Now all we need are some screws, front and rear lower gearbox covers. Once again i'll like to thank you for going thru our deal and spraying the bodyshell. Cheers mate....

[BenG]

Ok, Lets clear a few things up nice and clearly.

I never raced the MKi4. Never drove it. Yes, I built it very quickly, so I have no good reason for rounding the cross head screws in the rear diff. As for the diffs been gritty, that could only be the balls or the diff plates, I used supplied grease and built as weel as I could to the kit instructions.

I found the instruction manual to be highly annoying as it is written in broken english, and pictures appear to be off a camera phone., hence its hard to see anything. Add to this the printed manual has been made in MS word and printed on an ink printer, the quality isnt great. The belts were set-up again to the manual, as was the motor mount. If it isnt right, I cant see why, unless it was the filing I had to do on it to finish off the parts?
Anyway, I am sick to death for trying to help people, and be called, a noob e.t.c.

Yes I am a noob to buggy racing, But I have been into RC for 5 years now, and built around 40 kits, I know what I am doing.

My B4 is purely an experiment, I am not selling it so what does it matter to anyone? Once I am happy with the design, then I will get parts machined through CAD, I am not wasting several hundred pounds on a untested car.

meh, I am off to freindlier acclimes. Cya.......

[BenG]

Also, you say he is no-where near being a good driver. How would you know that? or is it something else you herd 'off the grape vine?'

rant over:D

I find it funny that people say I am a crap driver, when no-oe has seen me race, which I have done. I didnt do too badly for my first race..... ;)

[tc2k]

I think everyone just finds it irritating the way you slammed the kit yet from the pictures, you can see it is not a perfect metal machined beast like the jconcepts etc.

[BenG]

Would also like to point out, by the time I got to turnbuckles nd all things set-up, I had decided I would be selling this car anyway, I saw no reason to waste hours tuning a car I was going to sell.

I have an X10 now, I am happy..

So leave me be. I never walk upto anyone and openly insult them, I offered advice regarding this car, and just get flak back, I've had enough.... :mad::mad::mad:

[BenG]

I think everyone just finds it irritating the way you slammed the kit yet from the pictures, you can see it is not a perfect metal machined beast like the jconcepts etc.

Yes perhaps I could. I guess I am still youing though, and like to proove everyone wrong. I never really thought so much about it, I just wanted a car that was a bit different and was very fast, so now I have an X10..... Great car, superb build qaulity, I love it.

[Funkymojo]

Would also like to point out, by the time I got to turnbuckles nd all things set-up, I had decided I would be selling this car anyway, I saw no reason to waste hours tuning a car I was going to sell.

I have an X10 now, I am happy..

So leave me be. I never walk upto anyone and openly insult them, I offered advice regarding this car, and just get flak back, I've had enough.... :mad::mad::mad:

Mate..i think what you could have done is to atleast do some basic set up. The car came with the most weird camber adjustments i've ever seen in my life...from the way it was built and set up, you can't blame me or my mate for thinking that the car was built by a total newbie. The instruction manual does have broken english, don't think you have a choice as we both know that english is definately not Markus's first language. My mate and i found the manual to be pretty good, it's detailed and it was easily understood, the pictures helped too. People who have bought/trade cars from me are often very pleased caused my cars come well built and they are well set up too. It's kinda strange mate that you seem to have a problems with the manual. I think all you need is just some time to read and understand it carefully cos that's what my mate and i did and the car is really smooth now...Overall the MKI4 is a good buggy... :)

[BenG]

Mate..i think what you could have done is to atleast do some basic set up. The car came with the most wierd camber adjustments i've ever seen in my life...from the way it was built and set up, you can't blame me or my mate for thinking that the car was built by a total newbie. The instruction manual does have broken english, don't think you have a choice as we both know that english is definately not Markus's first language. My mate and i found the manual to be pretty good, it's detailed and it was easily understood, the pictures helped too. People who have bought/trade cars from me are often very pleased caused my cars come well built and they are well set up too. It's kinda strange mate that you seem to have a problems with the manual. I think all you need is just some time to read and understand it carefully cos that's what my mate and i did and the car is really smooth now...Overall the MKI4 is a good buggy... :)

Ok thanks for your tip.

Your car was well built. ;)

[Funkymojo]

Ok thanks for your tip.

Your car was well built. ;)


Thanks mate..once again no offence...i'm just giving an honest assessment of the car the way i received it...you're a good guy to deal with...i'll definately deal with you again in the future if the opportunity arises... ;)

[Welshy40]

Ben,

Fiar enough, no harm done. Your 2wd needs some work mate, and as you said its for you, which is cool.

But if you can develop it slowly whilst you are having fun racing it then the benefits are there for you, as you will design a better car to suit your style of driving, but you have now got to do it in stages as it would be silly to do all at once before trying it first.

As all the top drivers say whilst racing you cannot change everything at once as you dont know how the car is going to react, so in stages youll get more of a feel and develop it into something better.

[DCM]

Crikey, talk about retro sigs.... Team Fabiix, thats going back a few years....!!! Mad Mike Barton with his spaghettie wiring....

[matt]

Crikey, talk about retro sigs.... Team Fabiix, thats going back a few years....!!! Mad Mike Barton with his spaghettie wiring....
I've still got a FAB 2000. They were a bit crap on grass but did o.k indoors.

[Welshy40]

Hehehe Team fabiix, yup thats some years back isnt it. The Fabiix 2000 was originally driven by Craig Harris, but lets be honest he was and still is much better than that pile, so I got dragged in to drive it. Any way Harris was then offered a drive by Traxxas, as well as Stu Wood. TRX1 was sweet.

I did quite well considering at the Southport British Grand Prix about twenty five of the top drivers in the world appeared after the worlds and raced so to make 57th against the top drivers of the time was impressive, and shocked me considering it wasnt easy to set up. this was the proto type and wasnt built as well as the car he sold. He wouldnt let me make it better.

Besides the car had the gearbox back to front and understeered so bad you needed magnets to get around the corners. Still interesting drive.

Maybe someone should ask Stu Wood what he did for me at the event as Jon Tucker backed out at the last minute, due to sitting infront of me and Mike. I wonder if he remembers what he did, as without his help I would have been twenty places lower. I will give a hint, read the quote below and you will understand. The batteries were no good outdoors, but indoors they were quite good.

[BenG]

Hehehe Team fabiix, yup thats some years back isnt it. The Fabiix 2000 was originally driven by Craig Harris, but lets be honest he was and still is much better than that pile, so I got dragged in to drive it. Any way Harris was then offered a drive by Traxxas, as well as Stu Wood. TRX1 was sweet.

I did quite well considering at the Southport British Grand Prix about twenty five of the top drivers in the world appeared after the worlds and raced so to make 57th against the top drivers of the time was impressive, and shocked me considering it wasnt easy to set up. this was the proto type and wasnt built as well as the car he sold. He wouldnt let me make it better.

Besides the car had the gearbox back to front and understeered so bad you needed magnets to get around the corners. Still interesting drive.

Maybe someone should ask Stu Wood what he did for me at the event as Jon Tucker backed out at the last minute, due to sitting infront of me and Mike. I wonder if he remembers what he did, as without his help I would have been twenty places lower. I will give a hint, read the quote below and you will understand. The batteries were no good outdoors, but indoors they were quite good.#

Sweet, any pics of this magentic machine? :D Sounds very interesting. I searched google, but it returned little results.. :(

[Funkymojo]

#

Sweet, any pics of this magentic machine? :D Sounds very interesting. I searched google, but it returned little results.. :(

How's the X10? Well i'm dying to test run the MKI4 but i can't cos both front and rear lower gearbox covers screw threads are stripped and there's like a couple of missing screws mate...any chance you'll be replacing new parts for me? Hahahahaha...no harm trying my luck eh?.... :D

[NeilD]

I've just read this thread again from start to finish and i've got a bit of a headache. BenG you are full of contradictions and i don't think you are quite as clued up as you make out. Some very good racers have questioned your posts and you come back with nothing of any substance. These guys are good because they race regularly on various tracks. You, it seems, have never been seen at a race meet. Why not come to Durham tomorrow and show your face you might enjoy yourself.

[losidan]

i just wonder if part of the issue here is the level of expectation ben had. I know you've built loads of kits ben but if that, like me, is always kits from established manafacturers like tamiya, losi and corally etc (I know some of the car's you've had from the tyrc forum days) when a more prototype kit comes along it is a bit of a shock compared to what you've had in the past as it is much more rough round the edges......making you feel it's a poor standard kit.

Could be wrong here but reading the thread it seems to pop out at me.

[PaulRotheram]

How's the X10? Well i'm dying to test run the MKI4 but i can't cos both front and rear lower gearbox covers screw threads are stripped and there's like a couple of missing screws mate...any chance you'll be replacing new parts for me? Hahahahaha...no harm trying my luck eh?.... :D

use a bigger thread screw? or a longer one

[AndyM]

or...even fill the hole with a bit of super glue...let it dry, then put the screw in :)

works a treat

[BenG]

I've just read this thread again from start to finish and i've got a bit of a headache. BenG you are full of contradictions and i don't think you are quite as clued up as you make out. Some very good racers have questioned your posts and you come back with nothing of any substance. These guys are good because they race regularly on various tracks. You, it seems, have never been seen at a race meet. Why not come to Durham tomorrow and show your face you might enjoy yourself.

congratulations you are the tenth person to notice a who
e month later......

I have never made out I am brilliant, so who's saying I am?

I have other commitments on sundays, and am hardly going to turn round and decide to race tommorow in furham, when I have no batteries charged, 2 un set-up cars, no directions, no transport......

I do enjoy myself, except when I get stupid sarcastic digs and remarks for trying something different, not liking it, and explaing I do not like it.

Yes I had unrealistic expectations of this car. It will neve be as easy as building a main stream buggy due to markus' budget e.t.c and should never have posted anything about this car till I drove it..........

[Funkymojo]

or...even fill the hole with a bit of super glue...let it dry, then put the screw in :)

works a treat


Thanks for the tip mate...i was just hopping to get the parts replaced by Ben cause i passed him a perfect condition X10...

[Doomanic]

or...even fill the hole with a bit of super glue...let it dry, then put the screw in :)

works a treat

If the hole that has stripped is for a 4-40 thread, you can use M3 instead.

[Funkymojo]

If the hole that has stripped is for a 4-40 thread, you can use M3 instead.


Most of the screws are metric and not imperial sizes. Thanks for the tips on repairing the stripped gearbox cover screw threads. I know how to rectify the problem, it's just that i want the parts to be replaced cause i feel it's the right thing to do, i traded with Ben a perfectly mint condition X10 and i expect the MKI4 to be the same....Ben are you listening? ;)

[BenG]

yes.


Send me a price for the parts you need. :rolleyes: if thats the case, can you send me the two screws for the steering arms on the X10 please, I cant find any 12mm in the box? :eh?:;)

[DCM]

remind me never to trade cars with you two, lol.... unless one of you want to swap an X10 for either fully modded DF03 or a Cat3000, lol....

[Funkymojo]

yes.


Send me a price for the parts you need. :rolleyes: if thats the case, can you send me the two screws for the steering arms on the X10 please, I cant find any 12mm in the box? :eh?:;)

No worries matey, just pm me the details and i'll get it for you. As you know the X10 is half built, all the remaining parts are placed in their respective bags, well since you said the 2 screws are missing...i'll get them for you...Cheers

[Funkymojo]

remind me never to trade cars with you two, lol.... unless one of you want to swap an X10 for either fully modded DF03 or a Cat3000, lol....

Lol...i've traded and sold tons of stuff on Rctech and have sold my Kyosho ZX5 to fellow oople member Markoxx4 without any problems. Actually there isnt much problem trading with BenG too. It's just that i was expecting the MKI4 to be well built without any stripped parts since he sounded like he's got vast experience in RC judging from the posts he's been posting over here... ;)

[DCM]

I must admit, I hate it when I buy a car 2nd hand and find it is a bit of a lemon.... my Cat3000 had bits missing here and there, but it is the risk you take in the end, and like most people, I never NEVER trust a sellers build experience and will always strip a transmission down to check for duff bearings and badly build drivetrain, joys of not molesting it from new I guess.

Ben, if you want a sorted Cat in replacement for the X10......

[Funkymojo]

I must admit, I hate it when I buy a car 2nd hand and find it is a bit of a lemon.... my Cat3000 had bits missing here and there, but it is the risk you take in the end, and like most people, I never NEVER trust a sellers build experience and will always strip a transmission down to check for duff bearings and badly build drivetrain, joys of not molesting it from new I guess.

Ben, if you want a sorted Cat in replacement for the X10......

Well said matey..i agree with you on this...well as for my trade with BenG...both the X10 and the MIK4 are totally brand new...so i figured it'd be less of a lemon..LOL...yeah nothing beats the feeling of molesting a brand new unbuilt car kit...hee hee :p

[BenG]

Well said matey..i agree with you on this...well as for my trade with BenG...both the X10 and the MIK4 are totally brand new...so i figured it'd be less than a lemon..LOL...yeah nothing beats the feeling of molesting a brand new unbuilt car kit...hee hee :p


steady on, that sounds illegal :rolleyes:

[Welshy40]

I hate to admit it but its more fun on this thread than any other. I mean the people that are good racers and builders are being slated by a newbie and its highly amusing. Bring it on!!!

[Welshy40]

No pictures as it was a crap car, if you were running it i could guarantee you would be last with it. It was not a good car.

It was a cougar 2000 with the gear box back to front, and this was way before it was done way before the b4 concept was made.

[matt]

Next time i go round my mum and dads i'll take a few pics of it. On another note if any body has a good condition Cougar 2000 shell the would like to sell please PM me.

[NeilD]

congratulations you are the tenth person to notice a who
e month later......

I have never made out I am brilliant, so who's saying I am?

I have other commitments on sundays, and am hardly going to turn round and decide to race tommorow in furham, when I have no batteries charged, 2 un set-up cars, no directions, no transport......

I do enjoy myself, except when I get stupid sarcastic digs and remarks for trying something different, not liking it, and explaing I do not like it.

Yes I had unrealistic expectations of this car. It will neve be as easy as building a main stream buggy due to markus' budget e.t.c and should never have posted anything about this car till I drove it..........

If you gave some thought as to what you were posting before you did you wouldn't look such a twit. I must admit i do enjoy reading your excuses for not showing up at race meetings as they do make me chuckle. I'll now leave you in your own little world.:)

[Medders]

I've just read this thread for the first time and find the whole thing highly amusing :D (no offence intended to the individuals concerned)


BenG> Just turn up at a race meeting for fook sake. You must be able to make one on a Saturday or Sunday at some point soon - otherwise what's the point of spending all that money on cars and bits?

[Funkymojo]

I've just read this thread for the first time and find the whole thing highly amusing :D (no offence intended to the individuals concerned)


BenG> Just turn up at a race meeting for fook sake. You must be able to make one on a Saturday or Sunday at some point soon - otherwise what's the point of spending all that money on cars and bits?

Yeah it's amusing..:D It's good to have a hearty laughter...it relaxes the body and mind... :D

[losidan]

Yeah it's amusing..:D It's good to have a hearty laughter...it relaxes the body and mind... :D

it's easy to do that on here...for one I just look at your profile pic...makes me laff everytimr

[BenG]

Thats it.....

I have had enough off this suckish site and its bitchy members.

[tc2k]

Bye :D