x6 squared setup question

[IceMike]

can someone please post the standard setup for this car please. i tried one for the first time last nite and thought that it was good but still needed improvement on the handling so i want a base comparison.

also i seemed to be struggling for some front end steering, tried dropping the oils down and couple choices of tires, changed the springs and checked all his camber and toe, but it still seemed to lack any front end bite, but then would oversteer out of corners.

any ideas??

[blue_pinky]

Setup will depend on the track/grip levels, as there isn't really a single 'standard' setup...though people use Ellis's setup as a starter for most uk tracks. Craig Harris has posted his indoor setup recently as well if you look out for it, I've been using that for indoor and astro.

Generally though the X6 does lean towards understeer rather than oversteer like a B4 would.

Weight balance is a big player with the feel of the steering...35% front 65% rear is the optimum your looking for, so if your running lipo then weight under the speedo and round the servo helps.

[blue_pinky]

Also, if your running too soft on the front you'll not be getting any initial bite/loading on the tyres.

If your happy with the spring choice for the terrain, then try stiffening the front/increasing the ride height a touch as this will load the outside tyre quicker and increase the inital bite on the steering.

[_sleigh_]

Hi Mike,

Here's the "standard" set-up that most of us start with. I'll make a few assumptions in that you're using Losi shocks and are running on the outdoor Oz track.

Front
35wt - Red piston - Black Spring
Middle on Tower, Outer on Arm
Camber link = outer on tower and hub & 2 washers under inner ball stud
Camber = -1deg
Castor block = 30deg, in the forward position
Bumpsteer = 2 washers
Axle height = bottom
Ride Height = Arms Level

Rear
30wt - Red Piston - Pink Spring
Inner on Tower, Inner on Arm (make sure you have the "BK2" axles for this setup)
Camber Link = E-Speed High, Outer on hub.
Camber = -1deg
Wheelbase = Arms back, Hubs forward
Roll bar = YES, 0.9mm
Toe-In = 4deg
Anti Squat = 4deg (no washers)
Ride Height = Arms just below level

Misc
Wing = No gurney flap
Weight = Overall should be about 1740g with a rough 65/35 split
Gearbox height = lowest (no washers) Increasing the height gives more sidebite.

Couple of things to look out for are that some Losi shocks seem to have a slight variation in internal diameter and this makes the "feel" of the shock different between cars. So you might need to vary the setup by 2.5wt either way. If Doddy or Stan come to a club night, just have a compare betwen cars.

As for understeer issues this could well be the weight configurations, so best to set-up as above and go from there.

I have suggested 2 washers under the inner front ballstud and playing with this will alter your in & out of turn steering, but 2 washers is a good starting point. We do run as high as 4 washers.:thumbsup:

Don't be affraid by the ride height, as it might look more than you've run on other cars. Trust us it just works ;)

I fink thats covered everything, anymore queries just give me a yell.

[super__dan]

Anyone with seemingly large amounts of understeer with no obvious explanations is usually down to two things I've found. The crap servo saver (have you glued it up?) or not having any/not nearly enough weight on the front end.

On the basis you say understeer in and oversteer out I'm suspecting servo saver.

[IceMike]

Hi Mike,

Here's the "standard" set-up that most of us start with. I'll make a few assumptions in that you're using Losi shocks and are running on the outdoor Oz track.

Front
35wt - Red piston - Black Spring
Middle on Tower, Outer on Arm
Camber link = outer on tower and hub & 2 washers under inner ball stud
Camber = -1deg
Castor block = 30deg, in the forward position
Bumpsteer = 2 washers
Axle height = bottom
Ride Height = Arms Level

Rear
30wt - Red Piston - Pink Spring
Inner on Tower, Inner on Arm (make sure you have the "BK2" axles for this setup)
Camber Link = E-Speed High, Outer on hub.
Camber = -1deg
Wheelbase = Arms back, Hubs forward
Roll bar = YES, 0.9mm
Toe-In = 4deg
Anti Squat = 4deg (no washers)
Ride Height = Arms just below level

Misc
Wing = No gurney flap
Weight = Overall should be about 1740g with a rough 65/35 split
Gearbox height = lowest (no washers) Increasing the height gives more sidebite.

Couple of things to look out for are that some Losi shocks seem to have a slight variation in internal diameter and this makes the "feel" of the shock different between cars. So you might need to vary the setup by 2.5wt either way. If Doddy or Stan come to a club night, just have a compare betwen cars.

As for understeer issues this could well be the weight configurations, so best to set-up as above and go from there.

I have suggested 2 washers under the inner front ballstud and playing with this will alter your in & out of turn steering, but 2 washers is a good starting point. We do run as high as 4 washers.:thumbsup:

Don't be affraid by the ride height, as it might look more than you've run on other cars. Trust us it just works ;)

I fink thats covered everything, anymore queries just give me a yell.


thanks phil, that was wot i was looking for, something to start from. i will set the car up 2 those settings and see from there what i wanna do to it.

dont see y ppl always jump to critisism of ppls gear or thinkin that ppl are stupid on this straight away.

i had a valid question about a car that i had never run or built. Not my gear so i dont have alot of things i can do to it in that way.

[MHeadling]

I have some Losi shocks I am going to put on the X6, I have the red pistons already, just need to order up some springs,

I take it Black front, Pink and Red Rear should see me ok for most conditions?

Is there anything else I will need to bolt them on?Losi Shock bushings?

[_sleigh_]

Got it in one... Losi shock bushings as the AE one's are far to small.

As for springs you should be sorted with the ones you mentioned. I dont think the black fronts have ever come off the car.

[super__dan]

dont see y ppl always jump to critisism of ppls gear or thinkin that ppl are stupid on this straight away.

i had a valid question about a car that i had never run or built. Not my gear so i dont have alot of things i can do to it in that way.


I've really no idea who you mean by that. Pinky, Phil and myself have all replied with sensible ideas to your issue. Nobody has critisised anyones gear or seemingly thought they were stupid?

My personal post is purely factual, most people who I've seen either at the track or on here and have seemingly unusual amounts of understeer is because of the crap AE servo saver or becaue they've put little/no weight in the front.

Of those two, the understeer in, oversteer out is usually the saver as it slips on initial turn in hence the understeer, then in the middle and exit of the corner as the front unloads it slips back which as the servo still has lock on means you get more lock, hence the oversteer coming out of the corner.

[MHeadling]

Cheers Phil! I will give DMS a buzz and get the bits on order!

Just one more quick question, are your set ups with Losi oil, or AE?

[_sleigh_]

Losi oil is pretty much a standard across the team.

[super__dan]

Agreed, I know Ellis, Tom and myself all use Losi oil for consistency. You won that time Phil ;)

[MHeadling]

Cheers chaps! Helpfull as ever! :thumbsup:

[Paul_Sinclair]

It sounds like I'm a little late to the party, but the new set-up page is here:
http://www.xfactoryrc.com/rc/Tech/SetupSheets.php

I've just posted the 'UK Starting set-up' on there, which is identical to what Phil has posted above with the exception of the rear sway-bar. We've got some new set-up sheets to go along with the new website! :woot::D

[IceMike]

I've really no idea who you mean by that. Pinky, Phil and myself have all replied with sensible ideas to your issue. Nobody has critisised anyones gear or seemingly thought they were stupid?

My personal post is purely factual, most people who I've seen either at the track or on here and have seemingly unusual amounts of understeer is because of the crap AE servo saver or becaue they've put little/no weight in the front.

Of those two, the understeer in, oversteer out is usually the saver as it slips on initial turn in hence the understeer, then in the middle and exit of the corner as the front unloads it slips back which as the servo still has lock on means you get more lock, hence the oversteer coming out of the corner.

jsut weight and the servo saver are the first things ppl try so dont need to be said everytime someone asks for advice, because evryone knows about it and everyone does it.

personally i dont glue my servo saver because ive never found the need to do it. some ppl i think get the wrong idea when someone says glue it up anyways, and i find that because my car is stripped an cleaned regularly i check it and have never found it to loosen off.

and weight in the car, well it has a full trish bits front brace and bulkhead.

have ppl forgotten of the times when we use to set the car up without all this extra weight and made the car ballance without it???

sorry if i snap but i dont like ppl always offering the same ideas

[Darren Boyle]

Mike to be fair to Dan though, the AE servo saver even with the tougher spring is still "weak" compared to others around, even "built correct" and regularly maintained it will be slack, this is why all the team and many, many privateers glue it up. When the B4 came out and was designed, there were no LIPO powered 5.5/6.5 propelled bullets around the track and the loads on it were far less, now we ask more of the saver than ever before and to be frank it does struggle to cope.

As far as weight goes, even though you have the Trish bulkhead and front brace these two combined are WAAAYY less weight than we run in the front, to (as you say) balance the car, we often run as much as 120g in the front, plus weight under the ESC (Ellis even doubled up on the ESC weights at Stotfold)

I certainly have not forgotten the days we "balanced the cars up" and am glad they are behind us now, I much prefer bundles if insane LIPO power and bags of 6.5 brushless speed to boot, I am happy to accept that I need to plant my car to floor with a big chunk of suitable weight, The team guys dont offer this advice as a get out, they offer it becasue it is the most obviuos solution to your troubles......

[Body Paint]

Mike: Phil, Ellis, Tom, Dodd, Dan and me all pretty much run that setup but believe me you need the extra weight or it will understeer into a corner and oversteer out. To be fair to Dan the first thing I though was "there's not enough weight in it"

In fact, if the only weight in the car is a bulkhead and brace then the weight balance will be too far forward, which will almost definately cause the handling traits that you mention.

I ran 200 grams under the speedo and nothing else, no bulkhead etc. and the car felt really easy to drive.

Stan runs his car on the weight limit but with a slightly different setup and lots of aero, I have tried the Stan setup and find it very quick but really hard to drive without throwing the car on it's roof all the time.

I guess it is up to you if you want to use setups that the team have perfected over the last few years or if you want to go your own way, as long as you are having fun who cares :thumbsup:

[_sleigh_]

I'd be pretty confident in saying that weight distribution has been the biggest set-up tool this year.

Although you might have the right % split with your bulkhead and brace fitted, I would definately suggest replacing them with the stock plastic/alloy parts and moving the weight toward the "2 cell" area of the car. It will give a much more balanced feel out on track.

As for the overall weight being so high, I've tried the car "light" and found that it becomes quite nervous on the high grip UK style tracks. The added weight calms things down.

I know Stan has run his X6 (albeit the original car) with a light set-up, so it might be worth speaking to him and see how different his set-up is.

[IceMike]

thanks darren, i have the car in bits now doin the changes phil suggested, just want a meeting this weekend now to go to.

[_sleigh_]

Will you two get back to work :p

[IceMike]

I'd be pretty confident in saying that weight distribution has been the biggest set-up tool this year.

Although you might have the right % split with your bulkhead and brace fitted, I would definately suggest replacing them with the stock plastic/alloy parts and moving the weight toward the "2 cell" area of the car. It will give a much more balanced feel out on track.

As for the overall weight being so high, I've tried the car "light" and found that it becomes quite nervous on the high grip UK style tracks. The added weight calms things down.

I know Stan has run his X6 (albeit the original car) with a light set-up, so it might be worth speaking to him and see how different his set-up is.

the car is in no way light, its got lead under the lipo and in other areas, just i like to try the car a couple ways first.

hell my s44 is almost 2kg atm about 30g off. just wanted a few options to see if i like the car or not.

[Body Paint]

Will you two get back to work :p

It's factory fortnight, I am sat at my desk bored out of my mind :bored:

[IceMike]

It's factory fortnight, I am sat at my desk bored out of my mind :bored:


haha i took a half day cos i didnt wanna be sat about bored all afternoon

[GRIFF55]

dont i know it's factory fortnight:(:lol:

[matdodd]

Mike the setup Phil has posted is what I run most of the time & run at Osfest!

The trish bulkhead is perfect for indoors but makes the car hangon to the corner outdoors a bit to much so is a bad idea for a track like Os on a club night.

[fastinfastout]

so if the AE servo saver is crap, what servo saver are people running?

[jono83]

Most dont bother with one at all jus use a decent metal gear servo

[fastinfastout]

so you mean just glueing up the AE servo saver, like some here have suggested?

[Body Paint]

Yes, or the GPM alloy steering arms are what a few of us run ad they have no servo saver at all.

[Jonesy]

Mike,

I leave the country for 2 minutes and you get an X6! What's going on?? Is it yours or you borrowing for a try?

[jono83]

Yes, or the GPM alloy steering arms are what a few of us run ad they have no servo saver at all.


Me included

Jonesy: he is borrowing alan hart's

[IceMike]

Mike,

I leave the country for 2 minutes and you get an X6! What's going on?? Is it yours or you borrowing for a try?

borrowing alans for a play :P but you know i dont like my b4, even though it has bin alot better laterly

[ian h]

Anyone with seemingly large amounts of understeer with no obvious explanations is usually down to two things I've found. The crap servo saver (have you glued it up?) or not having any/not nearly enough weight on the front end.

On the basis you say understeer in and oversteer out I'm suspecting servo saver.
Bang on Dan, this was the case for me. Glued up servo saver and all is well again...:thumbsup:

[MHeadling]

Can any one post up a link where to get the gpm Ali steering bell crank from?

Seems like a good move to run it, what else breaks though when you crash running this part?

[jono83]

Here you go mark.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GPM-ALLOY-STEERING-ASSEMBLY-AB4048-B-fits-ASSOCIATED-B4_W0QQitemZ110425473039QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Toys Games_RadioControlled_JN?hash=item19b5df000f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I run this also with a savox metal gear servo and havnt had any breakages yet i guess the weak link now would be the servo horn but you can run an alloy one also if you wish.

[_sleigh_]

As Jono says the weak point would probably be the servo horn. Definately change from a standard AE horn as they're like butter.

The next weak point could well be the v.small turnbuckle link from the horn to the bellcrank. I've had atleast one pull out the threads on the ballcup.

[super__dan]

Bang on Dan, this was the case for me. Glued up servo saver and all is well again...:thumbsup:



No problem, glad I could help.

[super__dan]

Mark,

You are moving to the next weak point in the chain, but a stronger chain. I run the GPM servo saver replacement part but not the rack as the rack and bushings that come with it have so much play it's a joke. I also use one of the nice Team Losi alloy servo horns. The servo gears will likely be first to go and I wouldn't consider going this far unless you have a good quality metal geared servo/

[MHeadling]

Thanks Jono, Sleigh, Dan, I will be getting me one of those to go with the new plastic chassis!

I have the losi xxx servo horns on it at the moment but may go to a ali servo horn. I am running a KO servo so may stock up on the odd gear for when I have a big one!

Cheers guys :thumbsup:

[Body Paint]

Losi horn should be fine Mark, it is MUCH stronger than the Associated ones.

Sleigh has run the Losi one for quite a while now with his GPM steering and says he's had no bother with it :thumbsup:

[fastinfastout]

Mark,

You are moving to the next weak point in the chain, but a stronger chain. I run the GPM servo saver replacement part but not the rack as the rack and bushings that come with it have so much play it's a joke. I also use one of the nice Team Losi alloy servo horns. The servo gears will likely be first to go and I wouldn't consider going this far unless you have a good quality metal geared servo/
I'm using the team losi alloy servo horns and I find they have alot of 'play' in them, and will be using normal plastic ones when I next fiddle with my RC.:drool:

[YoungChazz]

Dan is right as usual. Paul has been using an aluminum steering rack and servo horn, with no saver. He DNFed a qualifier Saturday with a broken plastic gear in the servo...

[Paul_Sinclair]

That was in my X - 60, Chazz, which I've put the servo saver back in. I still have the aluminum gpm servo-saver replacement part in my 6 Squared and I think it'll stay there for a long time. I ran with the servo saver glued up for a long time, and the only problem I had was breaking that belcrank. I imagine I'll break a plastic gear in the servo eventually, but it'll be a while.

[YoungChazz]

Will he call his dear old dad across town on the phone??? Nooo!

But he will write a post on a web site across the Atlantic to tell the world how wrong I can be...

But the gist of my post is still correct -- his truck did break a servo gear.

[Gayo]

LOL - Poor Chazz :lol: