Renault Mechanic's / Scenic Intermittent Starting Fault

[Chequered Flag Racing]

SIL has a 53 Plate Scenic

hot or cold it has this annoying Intermittent Starting Fault

engine runs fine when it's running, no misfire etc

one minute it'll start the next it won't, it's becoming a nusiance for her

have changed the battery in the remote

any other ideas http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/images/smilies/confused.gif

[showtime]

Glenn i work for Renault & know exactly what this is
i've gotta get to work now, PM me your number, i'll log in later on & call you back ;)

been working for Renault main dealer since 1985 :cry:

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Glenn i work for Renault & know exactly what this is
i've gotta get to work now, PM me your number, i'll log in later on & call you back ;)

been working for Renault main dealer since 1985 :cry:

cheers it's 07079 919217, see your pm's:lol:

[cjm_2008]

crankcase position sensor?

[Chequered Flag Racing]

crankcase position sensor?

Showtime reckons the TDC, guess you mean the same;)

just got to track one down now

looks like this is what I have to do

http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10062&highlight=tdc

[showtime]

yeah same thing just different name
the one in that link is the one you need to change
i didn't read all 11 pages but i guess in there it will mention the blue coloured modified part & the wiring plug & harness change ;)

[cjm_2008]

rip out the whole engine management system and replace with one of these....

http://img.en.china.cn/0/0,0,265,6020,352,356,a8841172.jpg

... then if it fails to start, all you need is a bit of emery cloth and some WD40.

:thumbsup:

[Chequered Flag Racing]

yeah same thing just different name
the one in that link is the one you need to change
i didn't read all 11 pages but i guess in there it will mention the blue coloured modified part & the wiring plug & harness change ;)

I haven't yet but phone local Renault dealer and it's circa £50 for both parts needed

[justleanitupabit]

I haven't yet but phone local Renault dealer and it's circa £50 for both parts needed

Don't buy the parts yet - my inlaws had the same issue tdc sensor - take the old one out (a bit of a pain to be honest) get some emery and some wd40 / gt85 gently clean the copper "end" on the sensor and put it back in - did this about 6 months ago and they've not had the issue since. (Also you can get the sensor for about £20 if you look around) - Took me about an hour having never been under the bonnet of a scenic before and I'm not a mechanic.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

(Also you can get the sensor for about £20 if you look around)

ebay for less than £7, but they are used:thumbdown: or new for £50

the blue one below

http://i6.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/aa/bc/7eef_2.JPG

still reading up on issues with them but may try your suggestion first if the SIL doesn't take it to a garage before hand

[showtime]

Don't buy the parts yet - my inlaws had the same issue tdc sensor - take the old one out (a bit of a pain to be honest) get some emery and some wd40 / gt85 gently clean the copper "end" on the sensor and put it back in - did this about 6 months ago and they've not had the issue since. (Also you can get the sensor for about £20 if you look around) - Took me about an hour having never been under the bonnet of a scenic before and I'm not a mechanic.


the only reason doing this might have made a difference is that unplugging & plugging the sensor back in may have improved the contact within the plug.
rubbing anything off the end of the sensor tip will just be making the sensor tip further away from the target teeth on the flywheel :rolleyes:

whack a new one in there with the new plug
do it once
do it right ;)

[Chequered Flag Racing]

whack a new one in there with the new plug
do it once
do it right ;)

SIL's a tight arse, not that I've tried mind you :woot::lol:

[DCM]

no harm in cleaning any crud or corrosion off the sensor, that is free at least, then it will give you a few weeks to hunt a cheap one, on the net?

[justleanitupabit]

the only reason doing this might have made a difference is that unplugging & plugging the sensor back in may have improved the contact within the plug.
rubbing anything off the end of the sensor tip will just be making the sensor tip further away from the target teeth on the flywheel :rolleyes:

whack a new one in there with the new plug
do it once
do it right ;)

No the reason it worked was cleaning the crud off the end of the sensor. Hence why I said to do it gently.

I did this interestingly on an 03 scenic....and it worked a treat (and still is) :p

Either way whether it was cleaning the sensor or merely disturbing dirt from plugs if it works and is free.....

Clean it once and save yourself bills from a dealer. :thumbsup:

[showtime]

yes its free

but cleaning the external tip isn't going to fix an internal electrical problem (high resistance) thats exaggerated by heat meaning the vehicle wont start when its been left a short while (still warm) is it!

i've changed enough of these sensors over the years to be able to suggest this is the cause of the fault described

[justleanitupabit]

yes its free

but cleaning the external tip isn't going to fix an internal electrical problem (high resistance) thats exaggerated by heat meaning the vehicle wont start when its been left a short while (still warm) is it!

i've changed enough of these sensors over the years to be able to suggest this is the cause of the fault described

Changed rather than cleaned....interesting......

I would suggest to the OP that its highly probable that the sensor just needs a clean to remove the thin build up of crud on the copper exposed part of the sensor - this gives total resistance to an electrical circuit!! You will have noticed that the problem occurs when the engine is hot OR cold - meaning heat is not a factor. These are the exact symptoms my inlaws encountered on exactly the same year/model (the 1.6? OP).

Take it out, clean it and restore - see if that works - if it does :thumbsup: - Free fix - If not get it changed no harm done. Its certainly worth a go.

Anyway not been on here long so not keen to fall out with anyone...yet!

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Take it out, clean it and restore - see if that works - if it does :thumbsup: - Free fix - If not get it changed no harm done. Its certainly worth a go.



and I'll probably be rewarded with alcohol :thumbsup:

[showtime]

you don't need to clean the tip of the sensor to acheive a better contact as its an inductive sensor that doesn't touch anything! its not copper either its steel!
as previously mentioned the likely fix in your instance was unplugging & plugging back in the plug that restored the connection!

you can have the last word. i lay down my 25 years of relevant experience, years of college & countless manufacturers training courses when armchair mechanics 101 is clearly the definitive champion!

[cjm_2008]

while you're messing around in the general engine area, why not fit a NOS kit?

a bit of nitrous should improve MPG and make the engine easier to start.

[mark christopher]

you don't need to clean the tip of the sensor to acheive a better contact as its an inductive sensor that doesn't touch anything! its not copper either its steel!
as previously mentioned the likely fix in your instance was unplugging & plugging back in the plug that restored the connection!

you can have the last word. i lay down my 25 years of relevant experience, years of college & countless manufacturers training courses when armchair mechanics 101 is clearly the definitive champion!

got to agree fully with this post, the bottom "copper" bit does nothing different from being cleaned., more chance you have moved a bad connection.

[DCM]

So, by your own posts, there is no harm, in doing a typical computer thing, unplug it, squirt of WD40 on both connector, reconnect, if it works for now, top banana, if it don't, the misses can't complain with having to shell out for a new part!! :woot:

Show, I don't think anybody is disagreeing with the diagnosis, just that there are some of us, who would like to rectify a probrlem, than repair it. No point spending £20 - £50 on parts, which, in the end, aren't faulty, just not 'sending' correctly. Thats my 14 years on fast millitary jets, experience for you, lol.

[bodgit]

If I can remember my aircraft training many years ago all metals are prone to electrical potential corrosion when two metals are in contact with each other. Thats what is happening in connectors, so when the connector is taken apart then back together again its sometimes enough to just remove surface corrosion and fix the problem without you knowing what you have done.
Just had this on my lads SP1 sidelight was,nt working but bulb was ok. I took the front fairing off to fix something else undid the connectors and when it was reassembled the bulb magically lit up.

[DCM]

Disimilar metal corrosion, when you join to metal components together, Jointing compound of different varieties were used, to stop it.

[bodgit]

Thats it the differance in electrical potentiality causes RUST.this just sounds posher though. Thats from 30 years ago

[mark christopher]

So, by your own posts, there is no harm, in doing a typical computer thing, unplug it, squirt of WD40 on both connector, reconnect, if it works for now, top banana, if it don't, the misses can't complain with having to shell out for a new part!! :woot:

Show, I don't think anybody is disagreeing with the diagnosis, just that there are some of us, who would like to rectify a probrlem, than repair it. No point spending £20 - £50 on parts, which, in the end, aren't faulty, just not 'sending' correctly. Thats my 14 years on fast millitary jets, experience for you, lol.

yup worth a try but if you try that on a cam senser on certain fords it wont do chuff all as the sensers were found to fail in service, they found the cause and now the new ones are modified and a differet colour, which looks like what the renault one is, one of our reasons for colour change was gold connecters and we had to fit new loom too (as renault by the looks of the picture)

[showtime]

Show, I don't think anybody is disagreeing with the diagnosis, just that there are some of us, who would like to rectify a probrlem, than repair it. No point spending £20 - £50 on parts, which, in the end, aren't faulty, just not 'sending' correctly. Thats my 14 years on fast millitary jets, experience for you, lol.

we're talking about an inductive magnetic sensor here. as everyone on here should know magnetic strength is affected by heat (ever had a brushed motor "go off" when the can gets hot?) weak magnet = weak signal. weak signal thru poor connection = no signal.
no signal = no running

i'm just trying to get the point across that this has been such a common problem that a modified part/s have been released to permanently resolve any issues!

the newer sensors have better thermal protection & have been modified to give a stronger more reliable signal

for a while people were just replacing the sensors for the fault to remanifest itself further down the line due to corrosion/loose connections in the wiring

by replacing both the sensor & wiring you are prety much guaranteed a permanent repair

Mark has found the same thing with some Ford parts so its not a Renault specific situation/fix

like i said early on

do it once
do it right ;)

[justleanitupabit]

we're talking about an inductive magnetic sensor here. as everyone on here should know magnetic strength is affected by heat (ever had a brushed motor "go off" when the can gets hot?) weak magnet = weak signal. weak signal thru poor connection = no signal.
no signal = no running

i'm just trying to get the point across that this has been such a common problem that a modified part/s have been released to permanently resolve any issues!

the newer sensors have better thermal protection & have been modified to give a stronger more reliable signal

for a while people were just replacing the sensors for the fault to remanifest itself further down the line due to corrosion/loose connections in the wiring

by replacing both the sensor & wiring you are prety much guaranteed a permanent repair

Mark has found the same thing with some Ford parts so its not a Renault specific situation/fix

like i said early on

do it once
do it right ;)

Only pretty much?

THIS PROBLEM IS NOT RELATED TO HEAT!!!! The opening post quite clearly states the problems occurs HOT OR COLD!

Agree do it once and do it right - doing it right might just be taking it out and cleaning it.

Quite why you have such an aversion to someone cleaning something is beyond me.

To the OP - don't bother cleaning/taking it out it is clearly much better to replace the whole thing rather than even trying to sort it for free.

[showtime]

lets just consider my RELEVANT FULL TIME EXPERIENCE with the Renault product over your "got lucky by inadvertently cleaning a connection fumbling" by POINTLESS cleaning for a moment shall we?

yes. now the problem will now happen hot or cold (the component in question has pretty much completely failed after all) but i'm willing to bet it was more prevalent with a warm engine in the early phases of failure.
well actually this was confirmed during a phonecall with the OP not long after the original post this morning :rolleyes:

and the pretty much you analy chose to focus on was only described as such because as with ANY electrical component there is a fail rate where parts are either DOA or die very early during their service lifetime!

this was posted pure & simple because i can't personally guarantee the lifespan of any new parts fitted. Renault will waranty the part for 12 months so you do have some cover in the event of premature failure;)

a bit like your "Changed rather than cleaned....interesting...... ... (http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?p=280719#post280719)" line.
yes changed rather than cleaned as RELEVANT EVERYDAY EXPERIENCE has been PROVEN does actually fix the problem rather than the pointless cleaning you seem to have some kind of fixation with!

actually seeing as we're picking words to focus on the title of the thread asked for Renault mechanics. are you sure you are qualified to be taking such moral high ground in a topic that your posted experinces seem to show you're not really that clued up about?? yet seem more than prepared to argue your point all day??
and also state that you're not that keen to fall out with anyone just yet as you are new here??

good start :rolleyes:

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00506/bellend-682_506248a.jpg


what are you going to tell us next???

cracking an egg into your radiator fixes a blown head gasket!

[justleanitupabit]

lets just consider my RELEVANT FULL TIME EXPERIENCE with the Renault product over your "got lucky by inadvertently cleaning a connection fumbling" by POINTLESS cleaning for a moment shall we?

yes. now the problem will now happen hot or cold (the component in question has pretty much completely failed after all) but i'm willing to bet it was more prevalent with a warm engine in the early phases of failure.
well actually this was confirmed during a phonecall with the OP not long after the original post this morning :rolleyes:

and the pretty much you analy chose to focus on was only described as such because as with ANY electrical component there is a fail rate where parts are either DOA or die very early during their service lifetime!

this was posted pure & simple because i can't personally guarantee the lifespan of any new parts fitted. Renault will waranty the part for 12 months so you do have some cover in the event of premature failure;)

a bit like your "Changed rather than cleaned....interesting...... ... (http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?p=280719#post280719)" line.
yes changed rather than cleaned as RELEVANT EVERYDAY EXPERIENCE has been PROVEN does actually fix the problem rather than the pointless cleaning you seem to have some kind of fixation with!

actually seeing as we're picking words to focus on the title of the thread asked for Renault mechanics. are you sure you are qualified to be taking such moral high ground in a topic that your posted experinces seem to show you're not really that clued up about?? yet seem more than prepared to argue your point all day??
and also state that you're not that keen to fall out with anyone just yet as you are new here??

good start :rolleyes:

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00506/bellend-682_506248a.jpg


what are you going to tell us next???

cracking an egg into your radiator fixes a blown head gasket!

Put your http://www.pursepage.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/coach-ergo-patent-handbag-pink.jpg down princess your post says a whole load more about you than it does me to be honest.

[showtime]

so you say

what your post says to me is that while i'm at work actually fixing cars you're googling handbags!

looks like you found your niche!

anyway, haven't you got some pointless cleaning to be getting on with?

[c0sie]

*is physically unable to imagine Showtime, the RC Chuck Norris (IMO), and a handbag at the same time*

However, Millzy..now..he would :)

[cjm_2008]

I can't believe these two dudes have been having a raging debate... over a crankcase position sensor on a remo megane pic-i-nic or whatever.

:lol:

[millzy]

*is physically unable to imagine Showtime, the RC Chuck Norris (IMO), and a handbag at the same time*

However, Millzy..now..he would :)



A Handbag- no ta dude so last year :):)

[c0sie]

A Handbag- no ta dude so last year :):)

Oh yeah, sorry, forgot you were having a change of colours/genitals :D :drool:

[bodgit]

Jesus just when lee and stampedevlx boy have finally seemed to have called a truce these two are at it.
Anyway back to the topic. Anyone know if the car is fixed yet and what did he do to it.
http://www.smileyarena.com/preview/mai/largemix.png (http://www.smiliesarena.com/emoticons/main/free-msn-smileys-large-mix-1.aspx)

[Northy]

My money is on Adam (Showtime).

Ding ding, round 1 :thumbsup:

G

[MK Racing]

Not sure if Showtime would look right with a handbag...
http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/neo09/day04pics/bigimages/OOP_9398.jpg

[Belsten]

depends which colour :woot:

[rob8246]

Bloke seems to have shut up now he knows he's dealing with a 25 stone bald bloke.
Or, is it just because he's realised he is actually being a bellend??

You decide.......

[c0sie]

Flanders, you're my f#cking hero :D

[tjf]

Just thought I'd add my 2p

The problem is the connector on the loom which is why it must be replaced with the new sensor. The plug has been changed so it can only be fitted with the new part of the loom. The ends will now be blue so you will know its the new type the old one was black. People think that cleaning the sensor fixes the fault but actually they have cleaned the connection when they have unplugged it to take the sensor off.

Its a very similar fault to the old CVH Escorts and Fiestas.
I have sold hundreds of these and fitted plenty myself.