xx4 review [Archive] - oOple.com Forums

jimmy

13-01-2006, 11:08 AM

He did ? :shock: I got a reply from richard but unless i misread it he didnt answer anything and i assumed he was going to ask this other chap and get back to me. I'll re-read it and see! :D

To be honest i dont desperately need much now, I have enough to make it interesting already with the history i managed to dig up and photos of xx4's in action from last years euros / nationals.
I was mainly after some inside knowlege now on who designed / developed the car, when it was released etc..

Ive only built it up a little so far but hopefully will finish it in time to race it at bury metro on the 22nd (outdoors).

I'll ofcourse come running to you soon with some Questions about your thoughts on the xx4 chris, heck why not even make it interview stylee..

:alien:

jimmy

13-01-2006, 11:11 AM

am I right in assuming the front and rear slipper pads / plates are different so the rear can get more torque ?

Oscar

13-01-2006, 04:03 PM

They are different I believe, so more drive goes one end of the car than the other. I run yellow pads both sides,and this seems to work fine, however i seem to remember reading that if doing this you should expect reduced pad life on one side.
If some one wishes to elaborate on the effects pad choice makes on the handling that would be good.

Chris Doughty

13-01-2006, 06:14 PM

I think it was a Gil Losi Jr thing, not sure though.

the slipper pad is a different material for front/rear balance, but you can't run both yellow to get the same balance because the material for the 'slipper plate' on one side of the assembly is different to the other.

tyreman

13-01-2006, 07:32 PM

the slipper pad is a different material for front/rear balance, but you can't run both yellow to get the same balance because the material for the 'slipper plate' on one side of the assembly is different to the other.

To run both yellow slipper pads you need to get Paul W to turn down a anodized slipper plate so you can have an even balance.

Chris Doughty

18-01-2006, 11:48 AM

Jimmy,

I have posted a 'out of the box' setup on my website.

might be of use to you and anyone else

http://www.doughtyuk.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=983&hl=

I basically transfered my Euro winning setup (which I also used all of the 2002 season on every track) to the standard xx-4we kit with the bits you get.

you have to buy springs though, recomended to buy alu CVD's and some kind of outdrive saver, but that setup would be pretty dialed on most UK tracks.

jimmy

18-01-2006, 12:03 PM

Nice one chris!
im just painting my XX4 up and electrics to install, looking like i might have to steal the QC2 out of my kyosho as theres not much room in the xx4 is there.

Chris Doughty

18-01-2006, 01:32 PM

it quite tight, but you can fit a pretty large LRP sphere in there without much trouble

http://www.doughtyuk.net/index.php?ind=gallery&op=section_view&idev=14

jimmy

18-01-2006, 01:40 PM

youre right! :shock:
I confess ive not even put an ESC near the car yet, I got that from looking at other peoples cars and seeing it was a tight fit.. If i can fit my keyence in i will be happy.

Chris Doughty

18-01-2006, 03:41 PM

its like a tardis for the speedo space (that Dr Who thing)

jimmy

01-02-2006, 02:31 PM

Almost done! :)

_JP_

05-02-2006, 03:30 PM

hope you built it better than I did :)

hows the review coming then?

jimmy

06-02-2006, 12:16 AM

Done!.
Took the car for the test and some photos but not raced it yet.. so I either put it up tomorrow without the race test or i wait until next weekend where im racing it back to back with the zx5 and xxx4g+

Mrs oOple

06-02-2006, 12:17 AM

About time as well! Now come to bed :P

jimmy

06-02-2006, 01:05 AM

Thats me told! :D

jimmy

08-02-2006, 01:00 AM

phew... I just need to pray for a nice day on sunday so I can give it a proper testing.

Chris Doughty

08-02-2006, 10:14 AM

every snippet of the review looks ace Jimmy, can't wait to browse over the full thing.

emzy

08-02-2006, 02:01 PM

phew... I just need to pray for a nice day on sunday so I can give it a proper testing.

And we can give it the Emzy thrash test! ;)

jimmy

08-02-2006, 02:43 PM

Oh blummin heck, best get the spares in !!!! :p

daz

08-02-2006, 07:00 PM

is bury metro on this sunday might give lazer a blast out doors

jimmy

08-02-2006, 07:08 PM

Tis from what I know mate aye..
If you are INSANE you can go race at greenhead park in huddersfield, aparently there is some council backed race there from about noon..
mostly (like, 100%) bashers with daft monster trucks and 8th scale buggys...
best bit, its gonna be a small grass track, so any 10th electric should wipe the floor with them..
You even get a kirklees council trophy or somet.. mad!!! haha

Im off to bury tho, all being well.. racing the lazer, xxx4 and xx4

daz

08-02-2006, 07:11 PM

think il stick with bury probably safer bet

ApexSpeed

10-02-2006, 11:36 PM

I just finally got some hot laps around the living room with the car in full race trim, and the slipper seems to slip a LOT, even when cranked on. Diff and slipper setup on 4-wheelers are new to me (I hate slippers to begin with, that's what your left index finger is for), so I'm not positive on the best setup. It seems to have a lot of growl to it. I have also noticed that the flares on the rear sidepods of the body seem to be REALLY close to the rear inner tires. Is this something that anyone else has seen? I'm thinking that maybe some of the car's growl is a bit of plastic vibrating, too. Not sure. I think I need to sit down with the manual some more and a few hand tools to figure out the base setup, unless anyone else has some suggestions.

The 10x2 Checkpoint is flippin' fast, though. :D

Also, does anyone know if Losi made lightweight versions of the summer body? I have two, and the one I cut for the car is VERY thin, like a 12th scale lightweight. The wing is comical, it's so thin.

doug

PaulRotheram

11-02-2006, 02:36 PM

it might be the way there making them now a days.. ive not bought a new losi for a while! make sure your diffs are adjusted correctly if somthing is slipping. if your cranking the slipepr right up and somthing is slipping its definatly the diffs.

theres holes on the 'topdecks' where you have used little screws to cover, and on the layshaft there is a hole, poke a thin driver in to the hole (ooh'err) and then hold one wheel and try to turn the other. you should not be able to move the wheel easy, tighten it up and check again untill its hard to do it. i use the layshaft on the spur to do with btw..

also have you ran the diffs in? im not sure how experienced you are so excuse me if you know how ;) grab a wheel and give it about 1/3 - 1/2 throttle for about 5 seconds on each wheel then readajust the diffs. this is the way ive found best to do it. each to there own though mebbeh?

PaulRotheram

11-02-2006, 02:39 PM

oh also dont tighten the slipper right up, as this is how the belts are known to snap. what some people do is add a few extra washers, tighten it right up then back off so it acts as a safety barrier for the belts under landings (meaning itl slip on a landing to absorb impact). again if you know this stuff sorry :D :p

ApexSpeed

11-02-2006, 04:52 PM

Hi Paul, thanks for the tips. I did bed in the diffs and have them re-adjusted with the front being almost completely locked and the rear being slightly looser. The slipper is set now with a slip at full throttle on carpet at about 3 feet or so, and the clicker is in the stock setting.

Still makes a bit of growl on a hard launch from full stop on carpet, but I probably won't ever see traction like that on any race track. Might just be belts breaking in, or the slipper doing the same.

Thanks for the tips.

doug

jimmy

16-02-2006, 09:14 AM

Phew, Review is up and done... In the end I didnt get a proper race with the car, the racing was rained off.
But I'll be updating the review with how the car is going after its first race and further races.

Chris Doughty

16-02-2006, 10:00 AM

looks great Jimmy, I have only scanned it so far, I will sit down and read it in more detail later.

good work.... but I can't believe you put an image of my car with its 'temporary' body on :P :D

jimmy

16-02-2006, 10:33 AM

hehe apologies mate! Couldnt find many decent ones of yours.. only got 1 at telford and it was a BOD moment.. you were the only one heading for disaster.. :D

P_B

16-02-2006, 11:02 AM

Had a quick scan of this earlier, will give it a proper read when the boss isn't on the prowl. Looks like great work as usual Jimmy, I'll hopefully be around when you're testing if it's held at the usual venue...

Just one tiny nitpick, but I'm an obsessive sod and pick these things up - I think the rear wishbones are 'reversed' in the original XX-4 manual and then in the WE Addennum it says to run them in correct orientation, i.e L on left, R on right. Like you stated though, it's a bit of a bind juggling both manuals and is also a viable tuning option!

jimmy

16-02-2006, 11:07 AM

Really? oops, see how confusing swapping manuals can be. I'll have a look at revising that tonight mate, cheers.

Bathy

16-02-2006, 11:17 AM

Great review Jimmy, I also will read it all in depth when not working, and as good as the XX4 is I just refuse to change to it having spent so much on my XXX4G +… I’ll be saving my pennies for the next ‘new’ release from Losi.

Love the paint job you did as well car looks well wicked... you going to be selling it? Dam, I just said I wouldn't buy one doh!

Chris Doughty

16-02-2006, 03:39 PM

yes, please don't use that bod moment, you chose the best one :D

you should have the wishbones on so that they have the longest wheel base, look at the roll bar mount, the side where the mount sticks out the furthest from the wishbone should go to the front.

the L on L or R on L thing confuses me too.

jimmy

16-02-2006, 03:43 PM

Cheers bathy,
Aye will be selling it soon with all the optional bits i put on for the review taken off tho. So it will be a new built standard car with blank shell.. it did 5 mins for photos and testing.. I have another (older) XX4 worlds for the racing.

jimmy

16-02-2006, 03:45 PM

I thought that was wrong at the time chris, I thought the trend was for longer wheel base... AND you couldnt see the "graphite" properly!
:D

Chris Doughty

16-02-2006, 04:12 PM

one thing I noticed, when you are looking at 'page 1' the link at the top and bottom '6' to page 6 takes to the pred page 6, most of the other pages seem OK.

once you have fixed it, delete this post... :D shhhhh

jimmy

16-02-2006, 04:16 PM

agh!!! lol... I fixed all the other pages and forgot the index.html

thanks chris! ;) vicky was beta testing !! :p

tyreman

16-02-2006, 06:57 PM

Great review Jimmy, nice and clear.

barnyard

16-02-2006, 08:09 PM

Spot on mate

Very clear and objective.

I have to agree it is a shame the instructions and some components ie ball joints and front driveshafts haven't been upgraded for the re-release. But hey changing parts would hike up the cost of the kit for little gain and being cheaper than what i paid for a xx4 some 9 years ago i aint complaining.

Micha_MX4

16-02-2006, 08:13 PM

Thanks for this great review!

Very fair and objektive again I think, so you have to go for the longer or shorter
wheelbase? how much is it btw? Did I overread it?

Greets,
Micha

ApexSpeed

16-02-2006, 08:47 PM

Nice work, Jimmy. It sounds like many people have had parts missing or unusable in their newly re-released kits. The QC for Losi isn't very good, these days. I'm still waiting to find replacement parts that were missing in the main diff/thrust assembly.

It's too bad there isn't a US option for the outdrive savers. Maybe Chris will sell me a bulk load of them and I can be his US distributor. ;)

d

jimmy

16-02-2006, 10:24 PM

Im sure he would mate, give him an email [email protected]

Thanks for the kind comments.
I thought it was quite well done, the shock tower with the missing holes was really odd though

Northy

16-02-2006, 11:26 PM

I saw Stuart (can't remember his last name, Dammo's mate) fit a replacement at York reg that had no holes for the wing mounts at all!

jimmy

16-02-2006, 11:30 PM

Shocking! haha
:p

Weird how no one noticed and they sell loads of them with the same flaw ? I have 2 of them myself, I at least have some holes tho! ooer.

BluesFan

17-02-2006, 02:56 PM

ApexSpeed, I swore I saw the same outdrive savers Jimmy used in his review for sale on ebay. They were listed from somewhere in the UK, so I just assumed they were from the same manufacturer Jimmy was using. I'll check later to see if I can find them.

Jimmy, once again you've written up an excellent review. You have quickly become my favorite R/C magazine! Seriously, I've longed for the days that r/c mags would just write ONE REVIEW that was honest and objective! Too bad its gotta come out of your own pocket, but I guess that's what it takes to get an honest review.

Few things I thought were worth mentioning:
1. The 'graphite' or plastic wrench included in each losi kit is usually pretty good for the wheels. I have three losi kits and those wrenches never give me problems.... for the wheels. The 1/4" size strips out quite easily and won't work very well for the 1/4" nut on the top of the shocks or front wheels on a 2WD buggy. I suggest just buying Dynamite's 5-piece nut driver set. It's only 15$ here in the states so I figure it would be some comparable price in the UK. The setup you have for your wheels on the XX4 right now should be the 3/8" size. The CVD setup should be 11/32". All these sizes are included in that set. I know its a pain to own two different sets of wrenches and nut drivers (I know, I feel the same way), but there's no changing it anytime soon. I wish everything here was just metric. It'd make things a lot easier. :)

2. I'm amazed you were given UJs in your kit! The new released kits over here are packed with doggies (or so I'm told)! It's mentioned on the 4wdrc.com site and other friends of mine that have picked up the new re-released kits..... hmmm... Maybe they meant 'UJs' when they said dog bones? I'll have to check. When I originally heard dogbones I thought they meant the old sliders (like what is on the rear of the ZX-5). Anyways, I just thought of that when I was reading your review. If the kits over here are packed with the UJs, I don't understand why people would complain using them over CVDs.

3. Taper pins are the bomb! lol. :) Hopefully sometime in your life you'll get an opportunity to run on a track where Losi taper pins are useful..... much the same as I hope to run a track someday where I get to use Schumacher mini spikes. We don't even have those for sale over here in the states. I've never seen them. Just curious, does Schumacher make them for the front too or are you guys cutting and gluing rear ones to fit the front? Also, what other tires do you guys use on your tracks? Does Schumacher make a wide variety of other tires?

Northy

17-02-2006, 03:09 PM

Chris (the same person)was selling the outdrive savers on EBay recently. They will be the same ones.

G

jimmy

17-02-2006, 03:38 PM

Hi bluesfan

Thanks for the kind comments like, makes it worthwhile.

There is a plastic nut wrench ? I didnt have one in my kit, unless I somehow missed it, and I did look. Thats a shame If I missed out on that as I ended up using pliars and scratching the nuts and rims..

I dont know why, but people call UJ's dogbones ? a dogbone is a single bone shaped shaft which floats between the outdrive and axle (like on the back of the zx5 like you say)..
The XX4 comes with UJ's, I think people are just confused when they say dogbone.
Shame it didnt come with the new LCD shafts really, if they are better.

hehe, to be fair with the tyres im sure they are good over there, I just cant imagine where anyone would use them over here, but yes, would love to race on more dirt tracks, cars look ace in photos on dirt also. The schumacher mini spikes are available in 4wd front yes. Outdoors at most tracks mini spikes are the only tyre to use, they work well on most surfaces with the occasional bit of spike-clipping to tame them down.

Oh, and yet, the out drive savers on ebay are being sold by chris long.

jimmy

ApexSpeed

17-02-2006, 03:40 PM

Chris (the same person)was selling the outdrive savers on EBay recently. They will be the same ones.

G

There is someone selling a truckload of them in titanium on eBay, too... and a painful $48 a pair.

:o

jimmy

17-02-2006, 03:46 PM

blimey!! wonder if they are old stock ? I had some Ti ones on my old XXX, very posh they were.
$48 tho! mad.

ApexSpeed

17-02-2006, 04:12 PM

Yeah, it looks like the guy bought up some old hobby shop stock. He has 22 pairs to sell... at $48 a pair, he might be selling those for a LONG time. Gotta love people who are trying to get rich off of eBay.

jimmy

17-02-2006, 04:18 PM

Im guessing he saw some maniac pay that much once, so thinks everyone will pay it!?
If they are that necesarry though, I cant understand why they aren't included.

BluesFan

17-02-2006, 04:35 PM

Jimmy, when I get home from work this evening I'll take a pic of the Losi plastic wrench. Hopefully for the time being it isn't too difficult for you all to find US standard size nut drivers over there. I can't imagine trying to install those wheel nuts with pliers!

Secondly, I have a small request of you: If I recall you mentioned one of the updates to the re-released kits are new, stronger belts? If so, could you post the part #'s for them if they are listed in the manual? My friends that have the new re-released kits will not be racing this weekend and another friend of mine just bought a used 'old' XX4 with the older belts. He obviously would like to get the new ones so as to avoid opening that tunnel as little as possible.

Anyways, I look forward to your racing review of the buggy. I'm curious how you think it handles compared to the ZX-5. I'm also curious how you think the buggy handles once installing the new LCDs.

Icey101

17-02-2006, 04:49 PM

He had 22 of them, now hes down to 15.

ApexSpeed

17-02-2006, 05:25 PM

He had 22 of them, now hes down to 15.

Ugh. That's sick. :( :eek:

BluesFan

17-02-2006, 06:18 PM

OH! I almost forgot to mention something else about your review. You mentioned something that I swear no one else has ever noticed except for you and I about Losi kits.... well, at least I never hear anyone else complain about this: Why, oh why doesn't Losi include a turnbuckle wrench that actually fits the turnbuckles?! At one point, Losi did make a turnbuckle wrench that fit, but they don't include it in the kits anymore. I've got one. It sez 'Team Losi Performance' down the side. I'll snap a pic of that too tonight. Also, the turnbuckles included are in fact Lunsford.... but Lunsford isn't too proud of 'em. Losi asked Lunsford to make them to Losi's specs. That is why if they bend Lunsford won't replace them under any sort of warranty. If you try to, they send you a letter that tells you Losi asked them to make them to a certain specification that Lunsford didn't approve, so that's why they bend so easily.

Lastly, I used to think the Losi UJs on the rear were difficult to put together as well, but I have a certain way that makes it a lot easier. First connect the ball joint to the axle. Next, screw the yoke to the drive bone. Take some needle nose pliers and pry up one end of the yoke while pushing one end of the pin (on the ball joint connected to the axle) into the other side of the yoke 'not' being pryed up. While keeping the yoke 'pryed up' angle the axle towards the pryed up end and push. It'll snap right in. Sorry if this sounds awkward, but I couldn't think of any other way to say it. Maybe I should make one of those short vids Jimmy puts in his reviews. :)

barnyard

17-02-2006, 08:21 PM

The biggest problem with the turnbuckles is losi have had the pitch of the thread increased meaning they have a tendancy to be ripped out of the ball joints.

I have to agree about the losi QC it hes got worse in the last few years i now have a nice selection of 2 hole losi pistons ons even one without holes from this kit.

how many people are having problems with the front wishbones snapping at the wheel end have 1 broken and 2 cracked.

ApexSpeed

17-02-2006, 08:33 PM

The biggest problem with the turnbuckles is losi have had the pitch of the thread increased meaning they have a tendancy to be ripped out of the ball joints.

Nice catch. The stock t-buckles are standard 5-40 threads, and the Lunsford t-buckles are metric, IIRC.

how many people are having problems with the front wishbones snapping at the wheel end have 1 broken and 2 cracked.

Funny, I am chasing down an odd problem I am having with the car surging and shutting down on hard launches from a dead stop, and while I was running around the basement last night, I tore the right front corner off in a test of Newton's first law of physics with the couch. :mad: I just ordered a couple packs of front A-arms about 10 minutes ago.

They are a bit frail, in my opinion. Then again, I don't think many parts would have won in the car vs. couch confrontation.

DCM

17-02-2006, 08:52 PM

Jim, yet another great reveiw.

Sweet paint job, your colour blends around the cockpit are ace.... want a source for cheap Faskolor??

jimmy

17-02-2006, 10:16 PM

Cheers steve!
And yes, I do want a cheap source of faskolor! :) I do need a bigger range of colours like.

Northy

17-02-2006, 10:26 PM

Makes the QC of the Pred sound good guys! :)

ApexSpeed

17-02-2006, 10:46 PM

Cheers steve!
And yes, I do want a cheap source of faskolor! :) I do need a bigger range of colours like.

Jimmy, check the arts & crafts stores for Creatix brand water-based paints. Creatix paints are re-labled and sold for more money as "special" R/C paints as Parma FasKolor. Same exact paint, all of the colors.

Also, when you find the art store, you can also find those same little plastic bottles for paint, empty (and they are cheap, too). I use them for mixing new colors and creating new hues.

doug

jimmy

17-02-2006, 11:50 PM

Makes the QC of the Pred sound good guys! :)

I want my free plastic wheel nut wrench !! :(

jimmy

18-02-2006, 12:18 AM

Cant find Createx over here, I asked at a shop that had some in a kit with an airbrush and they reckoned it wasnt imported any more.. :(
I got some in canada on my honeymoon, good stuff.. wish i had got more.

not been able to find any suitable pots / bottles for mixed paints either yet..

DCM

18-02-2006, 12:44 AM

Jim, PM me and I will give yo ua link for sealed jars and for createx, you can get the same size bottle for about £1.50 cheaper than Faskolor, and twice as much for about £1.50 more, plus there is lighteners and all sorts of stuff.

jimmy

22-02-2006, 07:19 PM

Added a few big photos to the XX4 Review (in a seperate gallery linked from the review). Shame it was a dull overcast day!

tyreman

22-02-2006, 09:56 PM

I want my free plastic wheel nut wrench !! :(

Think they only come in the truck kits so you will have to review one of those to get your plastic wheel nut wrench:)

jimmy

22-02-2006, 10:53 PM

ah I dont feel so bad now!.. need to buy some nut drivers anyway, all I have is the AE plastic ones and a couple of tamiya jobs! :D

GAZ

23-02-2006, 06:59 PM

Hey Jimmy how did you get your servo horn's so white cause they are normally a dirty yellow white color.

jimmy

27-02-2006, 11:31 AM

Drove the XX4 in anger yesterday, I was surprised how much steering it had, (cells forward), once I got used to the car it was really quick. I was on the wrong tyres but the car was easy to drive fast- felt a bit distant, not sure how to describe it but even though it was going over the bumps and where I pointed it, it was almost driving its self, the zx5 was a lot more direct and felt like it needed a lot more 'driving'.
A rear belt broke, not sure if this was slipper tension or just an old belt (this was my other XX4, older worlds edition).

Looking forward to driving it again, apart from the old belt breaking, the car held up well, I was sure I would need a one way in the front but it felt good with just the clicker.

ApexSpeed

28-02-2006, 03:14 AM

How heavy did you have the clicker/slipper, Jimmy?

I've been patiently waiting for the announcement that DCRacing has released their front one-way, but it never comes. :(

jimmy

28-02-2006, 10:11 AM

It was quite tight, but still had a decent one way effect. The car had plenty of steering and was fast without a one way diff.
I would like to try it with a one way diff but the front drive shafts need upgrading so its an expensive proposition.

Oscar

28-02-2006, 11:55 AM

Why not just use the Losi one way? It fits without modification and if you build them correctly, I have found them more than up to the job. I'd be happy to let you know how I build mine. Plus they are cheaper to buy [if you know where to shop ;) ]

ApexSpeed

28-02-2006, 01:47 PM

Yeah, I built the car with CVDs up front planning ahead, so that's one thing I don't need.

I've thought about the Losi one-way, but the prices that I have found were less than good with the kind of reputation they have for breaking. I haven't heard a lot of good things about the sturdiness of the Losi part, at all. What are you doing differently, Oscar?

Oscar

01-03-2006, 05:51 PM

Basically what i have found , is the reason the Losi 1-way fails is due to the outdrive cup moving partially out of the one way roller bearing (which is quite small). If you can prevent this they should run fine.
The way I run mine is, firstly glue the alu saver rings in place on the outdrive cups. Secondly (possibly most important) grind down the pins on the driveshafts until they pass easily under the saver rings at all levels of suspension travel. Thirdly take a scalpel (or xacto knife or similar) to all the plastic faces which come into contact with a bearing including the outdrive cup. By scribing a cross hatch pattern or similar to all the surfaces, this will effectively raise some of the material slightly and make everything a tight push fit.
Should the worst still happen (possibly after a heavy collision) rather than replace the whole "diff" half at a cost of $27, simply dissasemble and push out the one way roller. This small bearing can be purchased quite cheaply from any good bearing supplier (approx £4 localy here).
I would post some pictures to illustrate this, but Jimmy has my 1-way at the moment for an upcoming review. If this description is not easy to understand let me know, and I'll see if I can arrange some photo's.