A Double and Three Halves

[bbkRob]

can't say more today, but there will be a bit more tomorrow. Please feel free to speculate.............................

[Garry]

Rob's first order at the bar? :thumbsup:

[GRIFF55]

All it took to make stants miss racing sunday? (they were vodka halves):lol:

[Gaz_Stanton]

All it took to make stants miss racing sunday? (they were vodka halves):lol:

:o :woot: :lol:

[ryanlownie]

So it's about the new transponder?

[wylie]

Maybe thats the amount they've cut the price of there new PT, PERHAPS NOT

[ryanlownie]

I was thinking the price they've increased it by.

It better be a special announcement to post like this.

[Chris Doughty]

3.5 ?

[c0sie]

Double - 2
Three halves - 1.5
21.5

Is that the new price of a mylaps/AMB PT? Would be nice too see them sold at a sensible price :) £60 for a new one when I first started in this hobby back in 2005 :/

[bigred5765]

the amount of clashes/probs caused buy cloned bugs??

[Garry]

Double - 2
Three halves - 1.5
21.5

Is that the new price of a mylaps/AMB PT? Would be nice too see them sold at a sensible price :) £60 for a new one when I first started in this hobby back in 2005 :/

When I bought my very first AMB PT, it wsa 2003/4ish I think, and £45 new from John Robson at Stafford!

[chris68nufc]

I cant deal with the suspense. I hate it when people do that.....It had better be good:thumbsup:

[David Church]

I know it is Rob's birthday today, Happy birthday rob!!!!

Is it anything to do with this???

[MatJohnson]

Even google doesn't hold any ideas http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=A+Double+and+Three+Halves+&meta=&aq=f&oq= I bet its a new software version or somit

[MRD]

There was just one more thing I wanted to do at the race, but the date was just 1 week too soon. Just watch out for "A Double and three halves" announcement over the next few days. I may make it to the race on 20th December so all is not lost! Save some spends for a bargain Christmas Pressy.

Nuf said..................................

Sounds like a discount on the new PT's to me ;)

[dave g]

yes send your old one in and get a tenner off the price of a new one lol

[steelie600]

no its the current price £90 ish doubled and plus a half 3 times thats what the price has gone up to!!!!

so 90x2 = 180+90 = 270+135 = 405+202.25 = 607.25 sounds like a fair price increase if you use the Amb It philosophy

[bbkRob]

Some really interesting interpretations! My favourite is "You have three wives and you are taking them all to the pub tomorrow to tell all?" and the next best is "The main jump on the Neo 2010 track". Good idea but I'm sure DXR can do much better than that. BTW The Neo2010 race is announced today. Tomorrow I'll reveal the Double or maybe one of the Halves.

I'm kinda putting myself on the line with this tease, so I really hope you all think it is worth it in the end!

[DCM]

come on, do tell, or at least give us another criptic clue!!

[mikeyscott]

New timing software / product... It's got to be as that's Rob's business. Putting things on the line etc... well that's my take.

[c0sie]

Whatever it is I doubt ill be able to afford it :)

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Methinks that 'a double and three halves' is all Rob could afford to buy from the donate button on his live coverage of the players event...

[SlowOne]

http://deepwest.com/rasta/giveadamn.gif

[bbkRob]

Sorry you don't dive a damn SlowOne, maybe the clue is in the name LOL.

So here are 2 bits of information.

First the Halve, or in fact two Halves (Don't worry, they only count as one in the total).

About Half the size and weight. Nothing very exiting, if you can't halve the size of something in 9 years you just aren't trying.

The Double? Double the signal frequency. Can you tell what it is yet? Of course you can.

The current one sends an ID signal 300 times a second, the one I'm talking about sends the ID 600 times a second. This has two benefits. The accuracy of the passing time is twice as good, still not to within 0.001s, so don't be fooled by results to three decimal places, the accuracy is still only to 2DP at best.

I'll just give a brief explanation about accuracy. If I'm sailing across the Atlantic to Barbados and you want to know when I arrive, if you phone me every other day and ask me if I am in Barbados, when I say yes you cannot be sure exactly which day I arrived, if you phone every day you can. So double the frequency and double the accuracy.

Now the other benefit. Doubling the frequency will reduce the possibility of missed laps. I sit and watch signal quality all the time at races and in general the strength of the signal is not an issue, what is an issue is the number of ID signals (hits). When the hits start to get to single figures there is a chance of a miss. With double the frequency the chances of a miss reduce.

Reasons for low hits are often the mounting position, although it might be a defective device. I noticed an apparently defective handout at the Players 2.

So know you should know what I'm talking about. What you don't know is what else is new/different, who makes it, when you can have one and how much it will cost. I'll be trickling little bits out every day so start guessing!

[Kifogrande]

So when are the new transponders likeley to be released? Like the idea of halving the size in 9 years, hopefully you've managed to halve the price too:thumbsup:

[bbkRob]

So when are the new transponders likeley to be released? Like the idea of halving the size in 9 years, hopefully you've managed to halve the price too:thumbsup:

Patience is a virtue, virtue is a grace, happy is the little boy who has it on his face.

I though that was so innocent until I realised that Patience and Grace are girl's names................

[Dazzler]

We can only hope that the last two halves are half price on the key equipment - Transponders and decoders....

[mikeyscott]

We can only hope that the last two halves are half price on the key equipment - Transponders and decoders....

Indeed... I've I've just bought a MRT :(

If these are well positioned I may consider putting one in the Cat SX

[ryanlownie]

hopefully you've managed to halve the price too:thumbsup:

Well most other electronics seem to get better, smaller and cheaper over the years!

However, it's not going to happen with these is it.

[MALLET]

Rob this will be great news as 2 races I've been to I've had missed laps and its not been every heat. I end up with a double count lap half way through my times.

Eg:- say like I'm doing 22 second laps, I'd get one 44 in there.

[ben]

Half the size must = half the price Rob? I think id rather put a handout in rather than paying £90 for a PT! :thumbdown:

[MALLET]

I cannot understand what everyone is moaning about. Once you've got a PT in there's no worries at track side.

I'd say Rob will be building it half size as he's said and the components have come down in price so I'd say he'll be doing them cheaper that the originals, and no missed laps is a double bonus :thumbsup:

[ryanlownie]

Half the size.
Half the price.
It already exists and you know what it is.

[mark christopher]

I cannot understand what everyone is moaning about. Once you've got a PT in there's no worries at track side.

I'd say Rob will be building it half size as he's said and the components have come down in price so I'd say he'll be doing them cheaper that the originals, and no missed laps is a double bonus :thumbsup:
does BBK own AMB then?
taken from bbk site
We design, develop and supply computer software for Club and Race Administration and
Race Timing of R/C Cars & Boats.
We also sell AMB I-T Identification and Timing Equipment.

Half the size.
Half the price.
It already exists and you know what it is.
MRT!!

[mikeyscott]

Price will come down from the natural competition on the market place then..

[MALLET]

does BBK own AMB then?
taken from bbk site
We design, develop and supply computer software for Club and Race Administration and
Race Timing of R/C Cars & Boats.
We also sell AMB I-T Identification and Timing Equipment.



I thought that Rob was part of AMB Mark sorry :blush:

Well it looks like Rob will be bringing his own out then

[c0sie]

I think that bbk design the software, where as the AMB PT's are hardware designed by some foreign dude.
Wasnt he summat to do with Serpent once?

Anyways, I wonder iof Rob is releasing a new software??

[MALLET]

Off of BBK site

AMB now have a new name - Mylaps Sports Timing
AMB products, prices and contact details remain the same. The new name recognises the merger in November 2008 of AMB-it and Champion Chip. Both are Dutch companies. Champion Chip originally developed passive RFID technology for timing running events. 12th October 2009.

[bbkRob]

OK, a little clarification. bbk is a software and services company. We do not make hardware, we sell it under its original manufacturers name. Our relationship with Mylaps (I'm going to stop using the AMB name now, but remember Mylaps is just AMB with another name and with stuff from Champion Chip) is that of a reseller. I don't own them and they don't own me.

OK, today's reveal.

What you know so far is that we are talking about something that is twice the power and about half the size and weight of something else. What you have guessed is that it is a direct powered RC car (and boat) identification device. I can confitm that this is correct. Oops, gave something away then, direct powered! It might have contained a long term battery, like the Mylaps transponders used for active sports and rental karting. Well it is direct powered from your car electrics and it uses about half the power. So that's two of the three halves used up, just another one to go. I bet you are all hoping the remaining half is price. Well it might be and it might not be but I would suggest that if you are looking to buy a PT you hang on a bit and if you have a used one to sell you get cracking. In the past I have seen quite old (>4 years) sell on Ebay for more than the cost of a brand new one so you might get lucky if you are quick.

Lets go back to the power thing. With the advent of Lipo single cell racing the power in the car is quite a low voltage. That is a bit of a challenge for servos and radios. I can confirm that this new device, lets call it Harry, will work with voltage down to 2.8v (1c) and up to 16v (4c). And the cable is PTFE and so nitro and petrol (gasoline) resistant.

Harry also sends its operating voltage and temperature as part of the ID. Of course telemetry from the car to the driver/pit crew is not allowed (paraphrase from BRCA General Rule 10), but as a Race Director I'm sure you would be interested to know if an IC car's throttle servo was being controlled by a very low voltage. Yes, I know there are failsafes, but when it comes to safely a belt and braces are always helped by a piece of string. Operating temperature is up to 50c, so don't strap it to the engine or speedo!

So, another big one there, new data from the transponder! So what does that mean for the Decoder?

Rest assured that Harry will work with AMBrc and AMBrc3 Decoders. I'll talk more about Decoders tomorrow. I also need to talk about availability. I'll do that on Sunday, in time for you to write your letter to Santa.

[MatJohnson]

So, its a new PT, thats smaller, uses less power and has a bit more telemetary info about what your other servo's are doing to race control.

[coolcars782]

Does this mean race control can tell you when you are about to burn something out :woot:

[DCM]

Thats all very well and nice, but most people are interested in HOW MUCH WILL THEY COST!!

[jimmy]

You're a big tease Rob - so, there's a new PT coming that we'll all want? I have to say, having a PT is the 'best thing ever' now I have one, but even with a mates-rate from where I got it, it was still a big investment at the time. I don't know how much they are now but realisticly I think they need to come in under 50 quid for us cheap-ass electric off road guys.

[ryanlownie]

Realistically they won't be under £50, I doubt it'll even be cheaper than the current PT.

Think of the outrage if the new one was released with a cheaper price and people have just been rinsed for £100+ on an older model....

[Northy]

So, the telemetry thing is illegal? So the race director can know things, but you can't :cry: What's the point? :confused:

G

[ashleyb4]

Its only illegal for our nationals and regionals if they wish to choice to abide by that rule. Club races its fine and so are other none BRCA meetings aslong as the race officials will alloow it.

A

[DCM]

Is it illegal, I thought it was only if you could adjust things, on the fly that was illegal, will have to dig out the BRCA manual and look.

[saintnitro]

right rob you got me spinning around and i dont know now what to do:confused:
i was just about to buy a pt:thumbsup: but now should i wait or should i go and get one:confused: it realy comes down to price and how many theres going to be and if it will be out before xmas. now stop being a tease and put us out of our missery :p

Ginge

[chalky]

Is it illegal, I thought it was only if you could adjust things, on the fly that was illegal, will have to dig out the BRCA manual and look.


the brca rule is you can transmit information to your car but you can`t receive any data or info back from your car

i think thats about it

[b4pete]

If they were £40 i think everyone would have one, thats around the price mark they need to be I reckon

[GRIFF55]

Will they be out before christmas Rob and would these be able to have cloned numbers to our existing pt's like mrt do?

[mark christopher]

the brca rule is you can transmit information to your car but you can`t receive any data or info back from your car

i think thats about it

nearly chalky, your cars electrics can not tramsmit data to an external source, it does not specify its to the driver/pitman etc.

i would think the BRCA are going to need to clarify this new bug is going to be legal.

ROb does it transmit via radio waves or wireless signal??

10. Radio Equipment
The BRCA recognises the UKRCC as the national authority for the UK on radio equipment. The BRCA will work within the rules and guidelines specified by the UKRCC RC Equipment must be used in accordance with the manufacturers guidelines. Any modification to any component that may affect performance and/or power of original equipments is specifically not allowed. This applies especially to the aerial and power source.
Only published frequencies are allowed (see Handbook). The reversal of crystals is not allowed.
It is not allowed to use any form of active telemetry, which in the opinion of the event officials or steward, is judged to give a competitor an advantage during any race. Therefore, it is not allowed for any radio/wireless signals to be transmitted from the car to an external source during a race, that is judged by the officials to give the driver a competitive advantage during that particular race.

[jimmy]

.......that is judged by the officials to give the driver a competitive advantage during that particular race.



So you can transmit radio signals - just as long as they aren't read live.. Or you can stream MP3's from your rc if you like.

[wacattack]

I think this is the most annoying thread I've ever read

[mark christopher]

So you can transmit radio signals - just as long as they aren't read live.. Or you can stream MP3's from your rc if you like.

reading it all pt's are a benifit to the racer for that race, as its counting your laps.........., kind of contradictory!!

[mikeyscott]

I think this is the most annoying thread I've ever read

Perfect marketing as you're remembering

[c0sie]

More annoying that Stampy?

[DanW]

nearly chalky, your cars electrics can not tramsmit data to an external source, it does not specify its to the driver/pitman etc.

ROb does it transmit via radio waves or wireless signal??


"Harry also sends its operating voltage and temperature as part of the ID"

Transponders are a Radio Frequency ID device, so its transmitted by radio waves.

If yours cars electrics are not allowed to transmit data by radio waves, then essentially our current PT's are illegal (your PT is part of your car electrics and the ID number is data).

Unless your pitman assembles his own loop over/under the track and invests 2K in a decoder kit then the information is only available to race control.

I suppose the usefulness of this is for investigating miss counts / duff transponders, especially for the 1 cell lipo racers. Race control will be able to tell if miscounts are being caused by low voltage to transponder - normally caused by fatigued wire, or in the case of 1 cell lipo could be BEC voltage dip.

Being able to read voltage with lap counts would be really great for handout transponders as you could monitor for a transponder with a battery on its way out. So substitute it before it goes duff in somebodies race.

All good if the price really is going to be half! :p

[DCM]

I would think that the telemetry rule, is more aimed at the 8th market, engine temp etc, or maybe 12th, with 8 min running and managing batteries, but, as you are not allowed to coach your driver either...... it is a very grey area.

It could be used as a data logging device...

[bbkRob]

2009 handbook (printed) page 15, rile 10, paragraph 3.
"It is not allowed to use any form of active telemetary, which in the opinion of the event officials or stewards, is judged to give a competitor an advantage during a race. Therefore, it is not allowed for any radio/wireless signals to be transmitted from the car to an external source during a race, that is judged by the officials to give the driver a competitive advantage during that particular race.

(not sure I'm 100% agreed on the Therefore but that is another issue AND NOT FOR THIS THREAD!)

So...............................

You can't find out how much juice is still in the tank, or indeed monitor voltage, if that is judged to be a competitive advantage.

BUT................................

Race control monitoring (but not disclosing) voltage would not break this rule and would be a distinct advantage for marshal safety.

Re data logging, note the word DURING. No problem getting lots of post race info.

If my handbook is so rare, maybe I should put it on Ebay, or maybe you should all remember where you put your copy.

[b4pete]

2009 handbook (printed) page 15, rile 10, paragraph 3.
"It is not allowed to use any form of active telemetary, which in the opinion of the event officials or stewards, is judged to give a competitor an advantage during a race. Therefore, it is not allowed for any radio/wireless signals to be transmitted from the car to an external source during a race, that is judged by the officials to give the driver a competitive advantage during that particular race.

(not sure I'm 100% agreed on the Therefore but that is another issue AND NOT FOR THIS THREAD!)

So...............................

You can't find out how much juice is still in the tank, or indeed monitor voltage, if that is judged to be a competitive advantage.

BUT................................

Race control monitoring (but not disclosing) voltage would not break this rule and would be a distinct advantage for marshal safety.

Re data logging, note the word DURING. No problem getting lots of post race info.

If my handbook is so rare, maybe I should put it on Ebay, or maybe you should all remember where you put your copy.

So are the new transponders going to be £15 inc P+P or what? lol
:drool: :thumbsup:

[mark christopher]

2009 handbook (printed) page 15, rile 10, paragraph 3.
"It is not allowed to use any form of active telemetary, which in the opinion of the event officials or stewards, is judged to give a competitor an advantage during a race. Therefore, it is not allowed for any radio/wireless signals to be transmitted from the car to an external source during a race, that is judged by the officials to give the driver a competitive advantage during that particular race.

(not sure I'm 100% agreed on the Therefore but that is another issue AND NOT FOR THIS THREAD!)

So...............................

You can't find out how much juice is still in the tank, or indeed monitor voltage, if that is judged to be a competitive advantage.

BUT................................

Race control monitoring (but not disclosing) voltage would not break this rule and would be a distinct advantage for marshal safety.

Re data logging, note the word DURING. No problem getting lots of post race info.

If my handbook is so rare, maybe I should put it on Ebay, or maybe you should all remember where you put your copy.

i have one and i qouted off the brca online one????

rob the bit in bold
in my ic car you notice the reciever pack voltage is down, how is that going to help the saftey of the marshal??, unless you tell me or ask me to pull of the track,(which im not going to do with dam good reason) but by doing that your giving me info transmitted by my car,
see what i mean?

[DCM]

2009 handbook (printed) page 15, rile 10, paragraph 3.
"It is not allowed to use any form of active telemetary, which in the opinion of the event officials or stewards, is judged to give a competitor an advantage during a race. Therefore, it is not allowed for any radio/wireless signals to be transmitted from the car to an external source during a race, that is judged by the officials to give the driver a competitive advantage during that particular race.

(not sure I'm 100% agreed on the Therefore but that is another issue AND NOT FOR THIS THREAD!)

So...............................

You can't find out how much juice is still in the tank, or indeed monitor voltage, if that is judged to be a competitive advantage.

BUT................................

Race control monitoring (but not disclosing) voltage would not break this rule and would be a distinct advantage for marshal safety.

Re data logging, note the word DURING. No problem getting lots of post race info.

If my handbook is so rare, maybe I should put it on Ebay, or maybe you should all remember where you put your copy.

nope, your not the only one, I have 4 here, and read the online one too.

[bbkRob]

i have one and i qouted off the brca online one????

rob the bit in bold
in my ic car you notice the reciever pack voltage is down, how is that going to help the saftey of the marshal??, unless you tell me or ask me to pull of the track,(which im not going to do with dam good reason) but by doing that your giving me info transmitted by my car,
see what i mean?

"Black flag car 7, indicated voltage below x volts" or "Warning to marshals, Car 7 indicates a low voltage and may loose control" or maybe "Videos on car 7, this might be good" or after the race "Car 7 check your receiver power supply". Hardly a driver advantage either way.

Depends on how the risk of low voltage is assessed. Maybe it is of no use whatsoever.

[bbkRob]

Going to eat now, next update bright and early tomorrow.

[mark christopher]

"Black flag car 7, indicated voltage below x volts" or "Warning to marshals, Car 7 indicates a low voltage and may loose control" or maybe "Videos on car 7, this might be good" or after the race "Car 7 check your receiver power supply". Hardly a driver advantage either way.

Depends on how the risk of low voltage is assessed. Maybe it is of no use whatsoever.
lol rob i like the car 7 may loose control, you can shout that every run with my driving :D

[coolcars782]

I have a DX3s and i have the temperature wire set up arund the motor in my b4, will i be able to keep it there for regionals or what? :confused:

[MALLET]

Yes you can cool, this rule was set toward 1/8th nitro only, as someone thought that while you are racing you can read what it says on your hand set....As if I've got enough on looking at me bloody buggy never mind that. I doubt anyone can give off the readings that are coming up on their hand sets while they are racing flat out.

[coolcars782]

well ive got it on there only to see how the batteries get at the end of the race

[mark christopher]

Yes you can cool, this rule was set toward 1/8th nitro only, as someone thought that while you are racing you can read what it says on your hand set....As if I've got enough on looking at me bloody buggy never mind that. I doubt anyone can give off the readings that are coming up on their hand sets while they are racing flat out.
i disagree mallet as a regional offroad meeting would use the brca "general rules" so it would not be allowed

all sections have to comply to general rules, and its NOT just 8th

taken from the Handbook read the red bit
http://www.brca.org/BRCA/library/BRCA2009.pdf

expect to see a totally different handbook layout this year ;)

General Rules
These Rules are applicable to all sections
1. Members
It is accepted that all BRCA members have read the rules, contained within this publication, understand them, and agree to be bound by them during the period of their membership.

[mark christopher]

I have a DX3s and i have the temperature wire set up arund the motor in my b4, will i be able to keep it there for regionals or what? :confused:

well ive got it on there only to see how the batteries get at the end of the race
general rules ban any telementry, so i would think practice only, race meeting nope as above post all sections have to use general rules and as a brca regional is a santioned meeting general rules apply

[MALLET]

I was just answering what I was told by someone who was at the BRCA meeting and was arguing about this situation. He then told us that it was just aimed towards the 1/8th national nitro buggy and truggy meetings.

I know what it says in the book, as I keep doing same as you, telling people to read and abide the rules.

[mark christopher]

I was just answering what I was told by someone who was at the BRCA meeting and was arguing about this situation. He then told us that it was just aimed towards the 1/8th national nitro buggy and truggy meetings.

I know what it says in the book, as I keep doing same as you, telling people to read and abide the rules.
nope 10th ic ban it too as do snoring cars, as you know if its in the book, its there for a reason....... hence the new look hand book due this year

[coolcars782]

hmm i guess i will be taking it out then :thumbdown:

[DaveG28]

Yes you can cool, this rule was set toward 1/8th nitro only, as someone thought that while you are racing you can read what it says on your hand set....As if I've got enough on looking at me bloody buggy never mind that. I doubt anyone can give off the readings that are coming up on their hand sets while they are racing flat out.

I put a stopwatch on my handset for 8th so I know when I am going to need to pitstop.


Have yet to successfully read the watchface without crashing....

[MALLET]

Yeah it true Dave. Just try racing with your eyes watering you can crash twice a lap :woot::woot:

[chalky]

Going to eat now, next update bright and early tomorrow.


well its early ,but not that bright in sunny bradford.

[b4pete]

well its early ,but not that bright in sunny bradford.

Foggy in Durham

[saintnitro]

its always sunny in bournemouth:thumbsup:

Ginge

[Dazzler]

Wakey, Wakey Rob.... I first checked in on here at 6:15am - Bright and early... And still nothing :lol:

[chris68nufc]

Sunny in Morpeth!! No update. Dont think Rob is doing himself any favours with this thread. I think hes lying and hes got nothing new to tell:thumbdown:

[bbkRob]

Sorry fellas, last Saturday I was up at 6am so today I sorta compensated.

There is always someone worse off than yourself, those poor souls on RaceChat won't get anything 'cos poor Harry got chopped on there yesterday!

I can't do much about.

Today I'm going to talk about the other bit of the system, the Decoder and reveal why Harry was not just a name I made up on the spur of the moment yesterday.

Harry is short for Harry the Hybrid. Hybrid means it will work on any AMB/Mylaps RC Decoder. That is the 2002 Red Box (RC2) decoder and the 2006 Buttons and Screen (RC3) one. The original RC1 Decoders were upgraded to RC2 by a factory update that enabled the USB port back in 2002. There is also a new RC4 Decoder. The RC4 looks like the RC3 but it has some new features.

Yesterday I mentioned the voltage and temperature data that is sent by Harry. You will need an RC4 Decoder to get this and of course some new race software. Or will you? Maybe not.

Since the introduction of the RC3 Decoder there has been the option to send passing data direct from the decoder to the Mylaps.com web site, provided the decoder was hooked up the internet. This connectivity is not uncommon in Europe, as is mains power and covered pits. It is not so common in the UK, so as a feature it did not make the headlines. With an RC4 Decoder hooked up to the internet, maybe via a Mobile Data Dongle, you will have access to that data via the internet, even if you are using non updated race software.

So, do all the clubs need to rush out and buy the RC4 Decoder? No, if you have an RC3 Decoder then it is able to take a free firmware update that can be downloaded. If you have an RC2 Decoder, then there is a trade in program that has been running about a year now to upgrade to an RC3. I'm waiting for details of what I can do in the UK to avoid you having to ship your RC2 Decoder back to the Netherlands. I'm also trying to short circuit the firmware upgrade as well, to provide support. Please don't bombard me with requests for details, there is a process that has to be gone through before that can happen. I'll be making sure the process is well publicised.

Introducing Harry

Between next weekend and the end of the year I'm tasked with managing the introduction of Harry to the UK. What that means is I will be visiting as many RC races to offer the drivers the opportunity to get a Harry. I'll hook up an RC4 Decoder, independently of the Decoder and race Software being used and stream the passing data back to Mylaps in order that they can get lots of data prior to the worldwide launch. Rest assured Harry has been through a lot of testing already and is a production unit. Some of you may remember that back in 2000/2001 I did a similar thing with Harry's predecessor prior to it's product launch.

If you have a race meeting that you think might be suitable please send me an email rather than a PM.

Just to complete the picture, the RC4 Decoder has more sensitive signal detection. The RC3 decoder was more sensitive than the RC2 so this is not that surprising. There is also a feature known as a Ping Box that will allow track temperature to be monitored and also test the loop. This ties in with the other features that allow the loop to be active 24/7 with internet based passing data, so you can test at a track any time. As I mentioned this augments the way some tracks operate.

So, today you found out that Harry is a Mylaps product that is backwards compatible with your existing RC decoders. The new data features can be available free if you have an RC3 Decoder and there is a trade in available if you have an RC2 Decoder. You might also realise why I have to tell you all about it before I can tell you all about it, so I can get it introduced in the UK before the rest of the world get it next year.

Got to go now, tomorrow I'll tackle the main moan about Harry's predecessor, it's price.

[bbkRob]

It's a nice day in Newmarket as well! I should be out there already!

[MatJohnson]

You know the old saying "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" anyone else thinking this is an example of that?

From a technical point of view, its sounds really interesting, will be good to see it working sometime.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

If you have a race meeting that you think might be suitable please send me an email rather than a PM.



I have ;)

[showtime]

i can't understand all the negativity :confused:

its newer, smaller, lighter, more efficient & should be better as it sends its code twice as often! add this to the fact that it will be able to indicate potential runaways to race control ( obviously more important in nitro racing) then it all sounds like a very good idea :thumbsup:

Rob i'd be more than happy to help you test them & i hope it all goes well ;)
we'll all be using them this time next year anyway :lol:

[mikeyscott]

If it's a better product then I'd get one. Price doesn't come into it, if you can't afford it stick with whatever you have.

[Col]

All sounds very good, technical and clever. But to be perfectly blunt is there realy a market for this (especially the decoder)? Presumably the majority of sales ill go to clubs (such as mine - York) who manage more than fine with what we have already. Although I've heard we might be looking for another to use at RHR...
I know I for one have not had a problem with my PT and have no interest in temps, etc...

Good luck anyway!

[mark christopher]

i have 4 pts all cloned, so unless it can be ordered with a my number, its not a move forward for me or anyone with the same

[mikeyscott]

i have 4 pts all cloned, so unless it can be ordered with a my number, its not a move forward for me or anyone with the same

That's a vaild point

[showtime]

i have 4 pts all cloned, so unless it can be ordered with a my number, its not a move forward for me or anyone with the same

yes but you don't HAVE to change do you
if what you have is working well & is still supported where you race then there is no problem ;)

[mikeyscott]

At the end of the day it's a case of if it ain't broke don't fix it scenario

Myself I've just entered into the world of PTs and I know a number of my fellow club memebers will be getting PTs over time.

So it's these people that need to be targetted first?

[showtime]

well i think its of interest to anyone who runs a PT who has ever had a lap missed. ;)

it doesn't happen often but its a pain when it does so anything that should make that better has to be a good thing

last time i was regularly missing laps was down to me jumping the loop so sometimes its not the transponder at fault :rolleyes:

[MRD]

I have an MRT at the mo but Ive been told that for some reason they can't/won't clone a number issued by themselves so I cant get another with the same number, BUT, If I can get a new MyLaps PT (if the price is right) would I be able to have my MRT custom number changed to my new MyLaps one, making it into a clone? Mmmm.

[Darren Boyle]

The same thing happened when brushless came along, everyone who had invested in a "box full" of good brushed motors, an expensive lathe and a stock pile of brushes vowed "never to change to brushless", but sure enough over time those same people sold on the lathe etc and moved with the times to the "newer/better" replacements. I am sure the same will happen with these too, they will save space in cars which are tight on chassis room (Durango for one springs to mind) save weight for classes that this effects more (like TC and 1/12th) and bring the added "data" bonus that may benefit nitro classes too.

As showtime says, we will all probably have them this time next year.....

[mark christopher]

my point being is they should offer a cloning service!! its so m uch easier to have bugs with the same numbers in them, after all its its the dogs nuts, then it should be offered when an independant can do it.

[SlowOne]

lol rob i like the car 7 may loose control, you can shout that every run with my driving :DIf that's what it does, I need one too!! :D

i can't understand all the negativity :confused:

its newer, smaller, lighter, more efficient & should be better as it sends its code twice as often! add this to the fact that it will be able to indicate potential runaways to race control ( obviously more important in nitro racing) then it all sounds like a very good idea :thumbsup:

Rob i'd be more than happy to help you test them & i hope it all goes well ;)
we'll all be using them this time next year anyway :lol:Er... it counts laps. So does the two I have now. I don't need telemetry on temps, and I run a booster to power the electrics, so it won't tell me anything about the car, leave alone the fact that I can't see computer on race control. Negative? Positive I don't need one!! :D

i have 4 pts all cloned, so unless it can be ordered with a my number, its not a move forward for me or anyone with the sameSpot on Mr. C!!

The same thing happened when brushless came along, everyone who had invested in a "box full" of good brushed motors, an expensive lathe and a stock pile of brushes vowed "never to change to brushless", but sure enough over time those same people sold on the lathe etc and moved with the times to the "newer/better" replacements. I am sure the same will happen with these too, they will save space in cars which are tight on chassis room (Durango for one springs to mind) save weight for classes that this effects more (like TC and 1/12th) and bring the added "data" bonus that may benefit nitro classes too.

As showtime says, we will all probably have them this time next year.....MRT do a PTX transponder that is smaller and lighter, can accept your cloned number, or generate any of the current AMB numbers 1-10. In 12th they are very popular, so we've already done the size and weight thing, and as indicated above, we've can't use any of the telemetry. Wouldn't this fit a Durango today, or indeed any other electric car that won't be able to use the telemetry? Just a thought...

[showtime]

i think you're getting a little distracted by the telemetry thing

posted earlier was the section in the rulebook that prohibits the use of telemetry or sending information back to the driver.
these don't send information back to the driver they send to the timing computer via the loop. the driver(unless he's driving from racecontrol) wont be able to see this information :rolleyes:

he'll just benefit from using a smaller, lighter, more power efficient transponder that sends its code twice as often

[Rocking Donkey]

If this is going to be a straight swap for the PT's available now, surely the only important things are if the new PT's will work with the old decoders (not sure how much a trade-in for a newer decoder costs but I bet it isn't cheap), are they cheaper to buy an original than at present, will there be better availability and will MRT still be able to make clones. If you already have a PT then great, but if, like me, the price has put you off then this is a bonus! Am I right that the MRT transponders already run at a lower voltage, are lighter and cheaper? Its about time that AMB caught up.

[bigred5765]

just read through the whole thread, to sum up it needs to be clone able(is that a real word?) so we can have more than one one the same number,
half the cost, obviously.
half size is good but doesn't make it worth anymore,
and no one is bothered that it has telemetry because to us its worth less,BRCA wont let us use that,the better signal sounds ok

the big question you need to answer rob which you seem to have skirted all the way around so far is HOW MUCH,

[mark christopher]

i think you're getting a little distracted by the telemetry thing

posted earlier was the section in the rulebook that prohibits the use of telemetry or sending information back to the driver.
these don't send information back to the driver they send to the timing computer via the loop. the driver(unless he's driving from racecontrol) wont be able to see this information :rolleyes:

he'll just benefit from using a smaller, lighter, more power efficient transponder that sends its code twice as often

the rule does NOT say transmitted to the driver, it says may NOT be tra nsmited if you want to quote rules do it properly

[rob8246]

Any piece of technology which improves our hobby is good in my opinion :thumbsup:

[showtime]

if you want to be pedantic i didn't actually quote any of the rules i merely mentioned that somebody had posted a section form the book earlier in the thread :rolleyes:

[mark christopher]

if you want to be pedantic i didn't actually quote any of the rules i merely mentioned that somebody had posted a section form the book earlier in the thread :rolleyes:

i think you're getting a little distracted by the telemetry thing

posted earlier was the section in the rulebook that prohibits the use of telemetry or sending information back to the driver.
these don't send information back to the driver they send to the timing computer via the loop. the driver(unless he's driving from racecontrol) wont be able to see this information :rolleyes:

he'll just benefit from using a smaller, lighter, more power efficient transponder that sends its code twice as often
your post says that it can not send info back to the driver, not what it says in the rule i qouted from the book!!

[bbkRob]

Well here we are and if you are racing outdoors today good for you. I was talking to Adrian at Remote World last evening and they have a meeting planned for today. I was hoping to take some Harrys there but they didn't make the journey across the North Sea last week. I'm hoping to have some coming week and as soon as I have them there will be a picture AND a price.

On the subject of price, I'm painfully aware that PTs have got more and more expensive since they were released in 2002, so let me explain why.

First off, the way to keep a product cheap is to constantly re engineer it to take advantage of technology and manufacturing advances. If you manufacture in places like China you can expect copies to start coming out of the back door within months, so you have to keep changing the thing to stand a chance of staying in business. Short product life has the effect of devaluing the old model. As someone pointed out, a PT makes it possible to automatically count laps, so you don't have to keep giving it a new name. You don't get a better time if you have a read one or a blue one. One of the unique properties of the PT is that you could have bought one in 2002 for less than £40 and sell it today (OK a couple of weeks ago) for £60 or more. What else in your car could you do that with? Over the years I have regularly seen ebay used transponder auctions go beyond the bbk website price for new.

So why were they so cheap in 2002? When the PT was released it was at an introductory price that was deliberately low. That price was €48 plus VAT. At that time the Euro was worth about 62p. If you do the maths that works out at just under £30 + VAT so I was churning them out at £350 for 10. In retrospect early adopters got a very good deal, which is as it should be. Good Times.

By 2003 the introductory price has come to an end and the price €58 + VAT. The exchange rate was moving slowly and got to the Euro being worth about 74p.

In the early days PTs were being bought in bulk by the clubs, which meant there were savings on shipping and quantity discounts. Some clubs sold on to the drivers at say £5 a week or even subsidised the cost.

Since then PTs have crept upwards the current price of €77 + VAT, which compared with the initial (not introductory price) of €58 + VAT I don't think is that bad. If the exchange rate had held that would be about £50 + VAT today.

Sadly we had the economic miracle! An economy boosted by unsustainable debt.

That has really punished us in the UK with the steady decline in the value of the £ and the sudden collapse in 2008 when the chickens came home to roost. Right now the £ keeps lurching towards parity with the € then it pulls back a little. Most long term predictions are that it will cross the parity point and once it does it will keep going. I really hope not, but there is not much any of us can do about that.

Right, I'm off to buy loads of stuff before VAT goes up after Christmas. More tomorrow.

[SlowOne]

If you believe that, you'll believe anything!! :rolleyes:

Dell, Apple, Sony, Matsushita, Boeing, Airbus, GE, Rolls-Royce, BAe, Westland, Nokia and Motorola are just a few of the companies that have things made in China despite their high-technology content. They have been doing this for upwards of 15 years, and yet I don't see Chinese copies of their products! That angle is paranoia on AMB's part.

Another angle on this is that AMB have no direct competition, and they would be idiots not to take advantage of that position. Where a small competitor has emerged, AMB has refused point blank to co-operate with allocation of numbers (and why would they) leaving the market open only to clones, not originals. Result - AMB have a monopoly that they have ruthlessly exploited - that's business, and that's what any shareholder would expect a business to do.

Please spare me the "exchange rate's gone bad" and "we've been living on borrowed time" excuses. AMB have done what any good company with a technology monopoly would have done, and does do - jacked the price.

I don't blame them for one minute, and it is the price of going racing. I did get one in 2003 which is now worth a lot more than the £32 I paid for it, but when I wanted another one AMB were worse than useless, so I switched to MRT.

If anyone on here is complaining about the price, then I'd be happy to set up a 'number exchange', whereby people living in different countries could 'lease' their numbers out, thus enabling MRT to clone transponders that are almost never going to turn up at the same race meeting. It's called a free market, and AMB had better realise that consumers will not be price gouged forever, and that when they decide not to be, it usually results in that company losing its market. Notice that IBM are not on the list above... ;)

[DCM]

I find it hard to see how, an item so small, can cost so much, even factoring in the cost of re-tooling and what not, global sales can't be 'low' and people only pay the cost as there is no alternative, if you don't already have a PT.

[bodgit]

It costs so much because people are willing to pay. If nobody buys them then they have to sell at lower realistic prices. korea makes phones and Im sure they could make these at a price more affordable to the market.

[MRD]

If AMB are finding it so hard to make the PT's for a reasonable cost then may I sugest hiring the MRT staff, because they manage to make a smaller, cheaper and better PT with no problems :lol:.

[SlowOne]

If AMB are finding it so hard to make the PT's for a reasonable cost then may I sugest hiring the MRT staff, because they manage to make a smaller, cheaper and better PT with no problems :lol:.:thumbsup:

[chris68nufc]

Still think that this thread has just caused the racers to get a bit edgy. I thought hat it was going to end with a great new product for hardly any money! Really doesnt sound like it though does it? I will, like many others stick with my original PT and get MRT to clone one for me.:thumbsup:

[steelie600]

i used to race motorbikes very competitively and obviously i needed a pt. Again it HAD to be an AMB it one, can you guess what i paid for it in 1999??????

175 pounds SECOND HAND!!!!!

When I got invited to do some european races I had to get a BLUE transponder, and oweing to the price I had to hire one. It was just too expensive to buy one for only a few races.

The price of the standard red one is now 368 euros!!!!!!! come on thats chuffin extortion!!!!!!!! the Blue one (its blue cos its reconned to work at speeds over 300kph where as the red one wont apparently) isnt even listed any more but i reckon its double that!! It was double the price in 2002.

the rc tranny is listed as 91 euros which i reckon youd pay the same in pounds by the time its in your hands.

I know AMB have done all the research into race timing etc and they have the lions share, but surely there is no need at all to price them that high. After all, it is only a pulsing transmitter of a certain binary code!!

[Mgtuser]

If AMB are finding it so hard to make the PT's for a reasonable cost then may I sugest hiring the MRT staff, because they manage to make a smaller, cheaper and better PT with no problems :lol:.

yeah amazing how MRT can do it, but AMB cant.......:thumbdown: ( or should we say, WONT... )

[dave g]

no they wont,because they have market monopoly.

and the racer/customer has to pay or do without.

[coolcars782]

If only mrt made pt's that wont clash with other people :wub:

[Rocking Donkey]

I wonder if anyone has ever referred AMB to the monopolies commission :p

[ryanlownie]

no they wont,because they have market monopoly.

and the racer/customer has to pay or do without.

Exactly.

[Dazzler]

Right, I'm off to buy loads of stuff before VAT goes up after Christmas. More tomorrow.


Rob, We are waiting.......................

Or are you still lugging all that shopping back where you saved a whopping 2.5% :lol:

[SlowOne]

If only mrt made pt's that wont clash with other people :wub:They do. The PTX can select any of the numbers from 1 to 10. Buy one, turn up, select the number you are in your heat, drive, have laps counted!

Nonetheless, my offer of setting up a number exchange still stands!! ;)

[Battle_axe]

They do. The PTX can select any of the numbers from 1 to 10. Buy one, turn up, select the number you are in your heat, drive, have laps counted!

Nonetheless, my offer of setting up a number exchange still stands!! ;)


i think the exchange is a good idea would be more than happy to help you out if u like

[HyperFX]

Knock, knock...Rob...you in there?! ...Knock, knock...
This is the prototype, right?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/AdvenTurer/RC/Misc/MyLapsITPT-1.jpg

[HyperFX]

You get to the good part, (pics/price) and then...nothing? :wtf:
Is this a drop-dead thread, now?

[SlowOne]

Yeah, he teased all his girlfriends when we was younger, too!! :D :D

Is this one case where no news is not good news? Just a thought... ;)

[Battle_axe]

Yeah, he teased all his girlfriends when we was younger, too!! :D :D

Is this one case where no news is not good news? Just a thought... ;)

hmm maybe he is just a big tease im sure it will be all clear soon

or maybe not....

[mark christopher]

http://www.redrc.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/AMBITNewPT-21.jpg

[DCM]

As much as a new PT is a good thing, most people just want to know, how much.... not much to ask.

[Marvin]

Here they are! (http://www.mylaps.com/index.php/uk_eng/Websites/B2C/rc/products)

I'd guess in the UK, they'd be about £60 ish...

[Dazzler]

Secrets out on My Laps site...

http://www.mylaps.com/index.php/uk_eng/Websites/B2C/rc/products

All you need to know is there...

[dave g]

lol 60 euros postage..from mars??

[Battle_axe]

lol 60 euros postage..from mars??

what on this earth is going on with the postage its boxed in gold right? and delivered by a man on horse back

[dave g]

they must be smoking something over there..oh wait, its the netherlands :)

[Battle_axe]

they must be smoking something over there..oh wait, its the netherlands :)
i hope its a mistake the ost expensive ups shipping i coul find was £16

[Answer-RC-Pete]

what on this earth is going on with the postage its boxed in gold right? and delivered by a man on horse back

Deliverd to you from Mars via Pluto and Saturn!

[Donutt]

I like the "more than 60% discount for an upgrade" on the website. :thumbsup:

I'll be pinging Rob on that tomorrow morning... ;)

[DaveM]

i hope its a mistake the ost expensive ups shipping i coul find was £16

Would'nt suprise me if it was'nt:thumbdown:

(Im wonder how much the second hand value of the old type will be effected!)

[Battle_axe]

Would'nt suprise me if it was'nt:thumbdown:

(Im wonder how much the second hand value of the old type will be effected!)
thats insane i will go to holland and pick it up myself its got to be cheeper

[jhammond]

Hmmm...

That is a hideously disgusting delivery charge for such a small and lightweight item.

€60.69 P&P?

:thumbdown:




Julius.

[DaveM]

thats insane i will go to holland and pick it up myself its got to be cheeper

I would, but my passport has expired, and to renew will be..... £75:confused: Now thats a rip off!!!!

[mark christopher]

looks like 75 uro normally, and no option of a clone!!

[dave g]

http://www.buggy-sport.info/index.php/news.html

[Rocking Donkey]

I've just checked how much it costs to send a package from the MyLaps address to my home address by UPS, and it quotes £40.22. It does cost more than I thought it would, but that is £20 less than the MyLaps charge

[HyperFX]

oops:cry:

[steelie600]

Im close to swearing here, are they takin the ***king p**s!!!!

Everyone should burn the amb pts and get mrt ones. If we boycott them and they lose their strangle hold it can only be a good thing surely!!!!.

[Big G]

regardless of how much they cost when new their value is what people are willing to pay for them. just like the house your parents bought 30 years ago for £18k is now worth £100k. No one moans about that.

At the end of the day a PT isn't essential. It's a luxury. A connivence thing. Sure it's annoying the price keeps going up. Personally I paid £62 for mine and I don't regret the purchase 1 bit. It's probably the best thing I've ever bought RC wise.

If you don't like the price use handouts. Or buy one and think what a godsend it is. :)

just my 2p

[mark christopher]

regardless of how much they cost when new their value is what people are willing to pay for them. just like the house your parents bought 30 years ago for £18k is now worth £100k. No one moans about that.

At the end of the day a PT isn't essential. It's a luxury. A connivence thing. Sure it's annoying the price keeps going up. Personally I paid £62 for mine and I don't regret the purchase 1 bit. It's probably the best thing I've ever bought RC wise.

If you don't like the price use handouts. Or buy one and think what a godsend it is. :)

just my 2p

wrong.... Some brca classes you HAVE to run a pt, it is compulsary.

[Big G]

I wasn't aware of that sorry. I've only returned to racing for less than a year so only done a few different club's nights and the winter MAM which all had handouts.

still my bit about the price stands

[MattADH]

wrong.... Some brca classes you HAVE to run a pt, it is compulsary.


I may have misheard (and please correct me if I am wrong) but I believe all EFRA events in 2010 will see PTs mandatory - in other words, there won't be any handouts available!

[DanW]

and no option of a clone!!

Looks like they have adopted the clone principle....
from My-Laps,

"Car ID: the Car ID allows you to use multiple transponders that share the same unique Transponder ID, but are tagged with different Car IDs. More information will follow soon"

"It will be your parent transponder and it comes with Car ID 0 (zero), the default Car ID. You can add child transponders, with Car ID 1, 2, 3, etc. (available soon)
Any MYLAPS RC4 transponder can always be replaced by a new one that inherits the same Transponder ID and Car ID"

BBK site says they will sell them at an introductory special price equivalent to 65Euro - so at the moment thats £65 near enough. Not as cheap as MRT, but a significant drop from the £104 for the current PT model!

[Si Coe]

Don't forget that if you think PT's are pricy you should see what handouts cost! As a result quite a few clubs insist on PT's because they have no handouts and no money to buy them. Its more a nitro thing currently, but will drift to electric soon enough......

[Big G]

buy them on ebay (AMBrc) for £66 :confused:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AMBrc-1302-AMB-Personal-Transponder-NEW-NIB_W0QQitemZ200408467661QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio_ Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2ea94688cd

[mark christopher]

I may have misheard (and please correct me if I am wrong) but I believe all EFRA events in 2010 will see PTs mandatory - in other words, there won't be any handouts available!

could easy be correct.

[Bungleaio]

I think I'll be keeping with my AMB pt from 2004 and the two clones from MRT. The prices quoted now, especially for the postage are unbelievable!

[DanW]

The silly postage price is just from MYlaps international online store...

I'm sure if you buy from BBK (the UK agent) - the postage cost will just be normal first class royal mail!

I've just seen an AMB PT second hand on EBAY bid up to £81 with 2 days to go... OR £65 for the new type brand new???

Based on that you could trade up and to the new style and pocket the change!

[ryanlownie]

Who fancies a multiple buy on the new transponders direct from mylaps? By splitting the postage between a few of us they will be worth it.

[Ben Turner]

What happened to all the rumours of them being substantially cheaper??? Cant see how its any different myself. I understand everyone needs to make a living, but I would love to know how much it actually costs to produce a PT

[MatJohnson]

Who fancies a multiple buy on the new transponders direct from mylaps? By splitting the postage between a few of us they will be worth it.

I'd be up for a group buy. Perhaps if there are a few of us we can get them cheaper than advertised on t'internet by contacting them direct?

If you went for the 6 of them, it works out 65 euro ish delivered to a uk address. So its just moving them onto folks houses. In theory, you could get them for £60 - £65?? after conversion that is

[ryanlownie]

They offer 20% off on 3 or 25% 6 packs. With 25% off and postage split between 6 people they should work out around £60 each.

[ashleyb4]

Ide be up for one on a multi buy.

A

[b4pete]

+1! for me!

[MatJohnson]

Thats 4 without trying :) Might be worth getting a few numbers and sending an email to them to see what they can do for more than 6.

[ryanlownie]

Go here guys:

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?p=317954

[alteredoggy]

Who fancies a multiple buy on the new transponders direct from mylaps? By splitting the postage between a few of us they will be worth it.
why not just do a multi buy from bbk and save on the postage?

[alteredoggy]

then there is the trade in offer too:)

[MALLET]

I hope you all order them for the questiment price of £60 and Rob brings them out at £45/50 that will shit on your strawberries wont it :woot: :woot: :woot:

[ryanlownie]

I've already discovered the UK price Mallet and they will be just under £60. No strawberries shat on here as we can still order from the UK.

[MALLET]

Cool :thumbsup:

[SlowOne]

Just out of interest, why are you guys buying one of these? Do you all use handouts at the moment, or are you replacing existing PTs? Just being nosey... :)

[Rocking Donkey]

I've just put my name down on the other thread to be part of the multibuy. I'm after one as one of my local clubs, Aylesbury AORRC, only run PT's. They only have a couple of spare PT's for people who don't have their own, so time for me to jump on the band wagon.

[mark christopher]

http://www.mylaps.com/index.php/uk_eng/Websites/B2C/rc/products/upgrade_offers

question, can you replace the wires,and can you pre order a set number you already own?

but the BIG question to Rob/amb/mylaps

do the old bugs work with the new decoders? if they DO the WHY offer such a discount on old amb and "cloned ones"
me has a feeling we could be getting shafted by AMb again!!

[steelie600]

Me's thinking the exact same thing. Yes i have a pt for convenience and i also have 4 cars so i need 3 more but no way can i justify the mylaps price. And this send your old pt back for discount thing just stinks of summat, I dont know what but Im not convinced at all. Ryan i want yer old one, ill bring the cash on sunday!!

[bbkRob]

http://www.mylaps.com/index.php/uk_eng/Websites/B2C/rc/products/upgrade_offers

question, can you replace the wires,and can you pre order a set number you already own?

but the BIG question to Rob/amb/mylaps

do the old bugs work with the new decoders? if they DO the WHY offer such a discount on old amb and "cloned ones"
me has a feeling we could be getting shafted by AMb again!!

No, No, Yes. Even the clones. I'll be demonstrating that at Rug Racers on Sunday, West Suffolk Model Car Club on Monday, somewhere the next weekend (TBA) and at Worksop on the 20th. I'm open to offers for weekend of 12/13 and evenings with 50 or so miles of Newmarket. Can't promise but you can ask, by proper email please.

Relax, no ones going to shaft you! You are being offered a trade in that values an item you could have bought 8 years ago for more than you paid for it in a currency that has dropped in value by nearly 40%. You are also being offered a trade in on a product that you bought from someone else. Best of all YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY OR TRADE IN ANYTHING BECAUSE YOUR OLD PRODUCT STILL WORKS.

I sometimes wonder why I bother.

[mark christopher]

cheers rob

not sure if you can answer this one, as i own my number i have now, why would it be not possible for mylaps to make me a new bug to that number, reason its better for me is
i have 5 and im registered on many clubs as thats my number!

[RogerM]

Watching with interest ....

To be honest I bought a PT when I was racing rallycross as it is just about an essential in that formula but now I am back to 1/10th off-road I see real point in having a PT for major meetings because;

1) there is very little space in my 4WD chassis to mount one (original red PT won't fit anywhere even close to how far forward I can mount a handout in the shell

2) if there is a problem with my PT I won't get my laps counted where as if I had a problem with a handout I would have some grounds to request my time is updated by race control

3) cost of a 2nd unit Vs benefits ... no point having one in my 2wd and not my 4wd for example

That said I WAS considering getting a cloned PT (if I had to have 2 separate numbers I'd always be booked in on the wrong one, I know myself too well and that is a given;) ) to help with running two cars over the winter at meetings which are much more hurried than regional / nationals. Again I know myself too well and the best run of the day would be with a car without a transponder in if I had to rush.
Still undecided as to the benefits.



Rob,

if it's not possible to order two (or more) with the number at the same time then I think you might have lost a section of the market for exactly the reason I mention above ... the risk of booking in on the wrong number for people liek me who have to book in on-line from work without the cars infront of them to remind which PT is in which car. Just a thought

[DaSloth]

but if you have the quick change device to hold it in your cars, you could swap between cars. I know it might not be convenient for racing two classes in a day, but i don't spose many people do that anyway?

Personally ill be putting a holder in my durango and B4 and then just swapping it between cars for things like the nationals next year.

[mark christopher]

but if you have the quick change device to hold it in your cars, you could swap between cars. I know it might not be convenient for racing two classes in a day, but i don't spose many people do that anyway?

Personally ill be putting a holder in my durango and B4 and then just swapping it between cars for things like the nationals next year.
so what if you mount it in a sealed radio box?

[dave g]

then you would buy an mrt one cloned with your number?

[bbkRob]

cheers rob

not sure if you can answer this one, as i own my number i have now, why would it be not possible for mylaps to make me a new bug to that number, reason its better for me is
i have 5 and im registered on many clubs as thats my number!

The reason why you MYLAPS won't make you an indistinguishable copy of your transponder is that the whole point of a unique number is to make cheating impossible. Remember their market is all of motorsport and unquestionable race results are vital. If you don't know how to cheat with a clone I'll tell you.

Get your mate to put a powered clone in his trouser bottoms and as you are coming round on your last lap, get him to go close to the loop. There are plenty of tracks where this is possible. Most timing software sets the decoder in standard mode where it will ignore duplicate transponder signals for 2 seconds after the first detection. If your mate is handy, no one will ever know. Its a bit more difficult with bbkRC because the decoder is in speed trap mode, so it sends every passing. You may have noticed a nasty noise if someone fumbles on the loop and crosses it more than once in a short space of time. That is the only clue that something might be wrong. Getting a 2 second advantage on a couple of results might be the difference between an A or B final. Imagine that at a worlds? I have no proof that this has ever happened because there is no way I, or anyone can prove it after the event. As long as there is only one transponder in the world with a given number, if that number is detected at a particular time then the car it is in must have been there. If there are two transponders with the same number then you can't be certain. Ever.

MYLAPS have stated that they will make transponders with the same Number, but there is a Car ID which will be different for each transponder with the same number. This Car ID will be exposed to the timing system so the Timekeeper will know if a different transponder is used. Depending on the event this might be quite acceptable, or it might not. The important thing is that it will be known to have happened.

Let me finish by telling you what I was told a few days ago by a well known Official in our sport.

"Consider this. A driver buys a new PT off you, he then send it off for cloning. When he gets it back he sells it on as brand new, never been in a car. The person who buys it has no way of knowing that it has been cloned and he thinks he has a unique number. Of course this is fine until he turns up at a meeting with the person who sold him the transponder." Do you know someone who would do that?

If you want multiple MYLAPS transponders with the same Transponder number (but different car ID) you can have them but not yet, and before you ask I don't have a date. You can buy one now (which has car ID 0) and have a same number transponder with a different Car ID in the future.

But relax, you don't actually have to buy anything.

[mark christopher]

cheers rob makes sence even though i have my original, id not sell it and id not cheat, if i ever sell my set they will be sold as a package.

it looks like my only option to get another bug with my number is to get another "clone", as you know i run ic car mainly and i need to be able to replace wires too, this is also a down side to the new one, as when my old amb failed it was simply a broken wire going into the bug, amb did not want to know and tried selling me a new bug, even though it was operating fine,

[MRD]

"Consider this. A driver buys a new PT off you, he then send it off for cloning. When he gets it back he sells it on as brand new, never been in a car. The person who buys it has no way of knowing that it has been cloned and he thinks he has a unique number. Of course this is fine until he turns up at a meeting with the person who sold him the transponder." Do you know someone who would do that?

So somebody would buy a new transponder, get it cloned, then sell it for what he paid for it or even less? Ending up possibly out of pocket. Nobody on earth would do this unless they had brain damage. Its not even a scam, its just a very pointless excersize.

[SlowOne]

I sometimes wonder why I bother.Because it is your business, and how you make a living - have you got a more difficult question for us? :rolleyes: :D

Internet marketing is a difficult skill, and one best practiced by professionals. As I know to my cost, the marketing skills of an engineer simply do not cut the mustard. If you wanted to conduct a marketing campaign in this medium, then an engineer's wits are, regrettably, wholly inadequate. You reap what you sow, Rob. ;)

And thanks for that final, convincing argument for me to rush out and splash the cash - "But relax, you don't actually have to buy anything." :lol: :lol:

[Rocking Donkey]

Ok, so MyLaps won't give me a PT with the same transponder number as I already own. I can understand the reasons for this and I accept them.

As I understand it, the new PT's have an extra digit compared to the older model. This number is only to tell the difference between clones of transponders with the same ID.

If this is the case, and I have an older transponder, can I get the new version with the same number but with an added car ID? Say, the same number but with a 2 at the end?

If the decoder can read this extra digit, then there is no way to cheat, as outlined above.

I'm not trying to complain, just trying to open up your market to people with existing PT's. Otherwise you are just ferrying trade to the clone manufactures.

Ben

[bbkRob]

So somebody would buy a new transponder, get it cloned, then sell it for what he paid for it or even less? Ending up possibly out of pocket. Nobody on earth would do this unless they had brain damage. Its not even a scam, its just a very pointless excersize.

Perhaps an example will make this clearer.

Driver wants 2 transponders with the same number, He buys an AMB PT (price approximately £100), sends it for cloning and has 1 clone, £50. He now has 2 transponders with the same number, total cost £150.

Driver wants 2 transponders with the same number, He buys an AMB PT (price approximately £100), sends it for cloning and has 2 clones, £100. He now has 3 transponders with the same number, total cost £200. He sells the original, unused AMB PT. Provided he gets more than £50 for it he is winning. If he gets £80 he is ahead of the game by £30. He now has 2 transponders with the same number, total price £120.

To get an even lower price for his 2 transponders he could buy the AMB PT in Hong Kong and then sell it here.

Of course the pricing of Harrys more or less puts a stop to this.

[PTRU]

Rob
if you wish to do anytesting with your system, you are more than welcome at Proline Dirt Arena. we run every Wednesday and on Sunday once a month.

If you wish to do a private test this can be arranged. Indoor track all ways down just plug and play.

[Piman]

Does anyone know when these will actually be available? I have ordered some and paid for them but no sign or details as to when I will actually get them?

James

[MatJohnson]

There just waiting for stock at the mo, I wouldn't expect them before Jan though.

[Mgtuser]

There just waiting for stock at the mo, I wouldn't expect them before Jan though.

according to rob 27th/28th december....although the post will be rubbish at this time so your probably right, beggining of January

[bbkRob]

and those who have ordered will get them in the post in the next couple of days.

They will be posted 17th December 1st Class Signed for so expect them Friday, Saturday or maybe Monday.

If you ordered 2 or more they will be sent Special Delivery Next Day, so Friday is they day they will arrive.

Orders placed after 4pm 17th December will be posted 28th December.

I am planning to be at the Schumacher Indoor at Worksop this Sunday (20th December) before the meeting starts and I'll have some for £50 each (cash only). You will be able to use your new transponder at the meeting.

See you Sunday?

[c0sie]

Rob,

Just out of interest. With your trade-in option, if I was to send you my old AMB PT would the RC4 PT you send me have the same number or a brand new number?

Also, are there any restrictions on trade in? I only ask as my transponder has been hacked about a little in the 3 years that Ive owned it :/

Thanks

[b4pete]

and those who have ordered will get them in the post in the next couple of days.

They will be posted 17th December 1st Class Signed for so expect them Friday, Saturday or maybe Monday.

If you ordered 2 or more they will be sent Special Delivery Next Day, so Friday is they day they will arrive.

Orders placed after 4pm 17th December will be posted 28th December.

I am planning to be at the Schumacher Indoor at Worksop this Sunday (20th December) before the meeting starts and I'll have some for £50 each (cash only). You will be able to use your new transponder at the meeting.

See you Sunday?

WooHoo!! :thumbsup:

[mark christopher]

Rob,

Just out of interest. With your trade-in option, if I was to send you my old AMB PT would the RC4 PT you send me have the same number or a brand new number?

Also, are there any restrictions on trade in? I only ask as my transponder has been hacked about a little in the 3 years that Ive owned it :/

Thanks
as i understand it you will get a new number, and as long as your old unit works.

[IceMike]

Just got mine into the office now, there soooooooooooo tiny!! :p cant wait to fit it to the car and give them a test this weekend. they really could fit anywhere!!!

[MatJohnson]

Less of that!

With a bit of luck the postman should drop mine off, not holding me breath though :)

[Big G]

i thought there were suppose to be cheaper...

personally I don't mind paying £50-60, but the whole arguement was they were too expensive. The last 2 I've watched on ebay went for sub £50

[DCM]

For something that is essentially, a must have item, I think £50 is too expensive, if they were half the price, they would sell a lot more, MRT are a case in point.

[Marvin]

How is £50 not cheaper than £100? :confused:

Don't get too carried away there DCM, the MRT is £42, the AMB is £57.66, it's not a massive amount more.

[DCM]

the MRT was nearly half of the Red AMB PT though, wasn't it.

[Big G]

I've never seen a AMBrc for £100...

one went on ebay for £48 last night.

[IceMike]

right but when was the amb one first produced??? from the development of the original amb, to the mrt the cost of materials and components may have gone down. and the new one is cheap, for wot it is. AND I WOULD NOT CALL A PT AND ESSENTIAL COMPONENT, if a club is using a lap counting software, it should be prepared to supply hand outs, otherwise its adding an extra cost to ppl starting up. this sport is meant to be one of the cheapest forms of motor sport and telling ppl that they have to spend and extra 50quid to be able to race is rediculous. when starting out most ppl keep there gear as cheap as possible

[b4pete]

Postie been, didnt have mine :(

i dont seem to get anything RC-related in the post properly!

[b4pete]

I've never seen a AMBrc for £100...

one went on ebay for £48 last night.
Ive seen one got for £81 in the week before 'Harry' came out!

[DCM]

I beleive even Rob was stating they were going for £80 on eBay. As for clubs and PT's, there are a lot of clubs who have ones they 'loan' out, beut can neither afford to supply for a whole club, or should.

The component count and cost, in a PT, they can be made much cheaper, I would of though.

[Big G]

I too saw that one go for £81. personally I haven't seen any others for £60+ and the common price of the ones I've stuck on my watching list were around £50

[Dunc]

Marvin is quoting new prices. In recent months (maybe longer) bbk were asking in the region of £90-100 for a new AMB personal transponder (the previous model). In this regard a new MRT clone is around half the price.

Hope that clears things up a little bit.

How is £50 not cheaper than £100? :confused:

Don't get too carried away there DCM, the MRT is £42, the AMB is £57.66, it's not a massive amount more.

the MRT was nearly half of the Red AMB PT though, wasn't it.

I've never seen a AMBrc for £100...

one went on ebay for £48 last night.

[DCM]

thanks, thought I was going mad!!

[ashleyb4]

I havent got mine :'(

A

[MatJohnson]

Nor me ash, nor me. Prolly means an early wake up call though

[Jonesy]

I havent got mine :'(

A

Nor me ash, nor me. Prolly means an early wake up call though


You should ordered them from Mike!! Got ours :thumbsup:

[IceMike]

You should ordered them from Mike!! Got ours :thumbsup:
haha yer lol, just opened my one, its nice lookin at loads of them and pickin the number you can remember the best :p but i was just readin the instructions (cos i dont have the car next to me 2 fit it now) and it says that you shouldnt fit it with any metal or carbon fibre between it and the track. well that rules out using them in over half the cars in the field atm as far as i can think.

[Kirby]

haha yer lol, just opened my one, its nice lookin at loads of them and pickin the number you can remember the best :p but i was just readin the instructions (cos i dont have the car next to me 2 fit it now) and it says that you shouldnt fit it with any metal or carbon fibre between it and the track. well that rules out using them in over half the cars in the field atm as far as i can think.

So can't put it on chassis as it's carbon and i cant put it on my servo because its got a metal band round it and has titanium gears :confused:

[IceMike]

i jsut read it all, it recommends that u dont do it, but you can if u need 2. and if your gettin a low signal then try movin it about abit. there basically coverin there backs. nout to worry about im sure, ill let you know on sunday, cos im runnin it in my S44 and thats all carbon

[Kirby]

i jsut read it all, it recommends that u dont do it, but you can if u need 2. and if your gettin a low signal then try movin it about abit. there basically coverin there backs. nout to worry about im sure, ill let you know on sunday, cos im runnin it in my S44 and thats all carbon

Thanks, im sure this would of been thought of so as you said proably nothing to worry about.

[MatJohnson]

Think its just a weak signal but its not a directional signal so it will still get somit, just might need to goto the edge of the car instead of the middle.

and mines not arrived today! chuffin welsh post!

[ashleyb4]

Mines arrived i knew it was harry it bleeped as it went though the letter box.

A

[SlowOne]

What short memories we have! I bought my AMB when they first came out for £32, and they got to be about £100. Am I the only one who thinks that once the fuss is over, AMB will do what they dod before and jack the price? Get 'em while you can at this price - but maybe only one, so you can clone it at the MRT price later... ;)

[mark christopher]

i jsut read it all, it recommends that u dont do it, but you can if u need 2. and if your gettin a low signal then try movin it about abit. there basically coverin there backs. nout to worry about im sure, ill let you know on sunday, cos im runnin it in my S44 and thats all carbon

hmmm ithought it was marketed as having a stronger signal?

[university_dave]

haha yer lol, just opened my one, its nice lookin at loads of them and pickin the number you can remember the best :p but i was just readin the instructions (cos i dont have the car next to me 2 fit it now) and it says that you shouldnt fit it with any metal or carbon fibre between it and the track. well that rules out using them in over half the cars in the field atm as far as i can think.

The original AMBrc PTs also had the same in the instructions.

[Big G]

mine's always been mounted on top of my servo in the B44 so a strong CF chassis too and never missed a lap to my knowledge (I'm a bit anal about looking at lap times to see where I can improve :blush:)

[IceMike]

used mine 2day, worked perfectly, and so did 3 others that we had :P great bit of kit

[MatJohnson]

w00p, mine arrived this morning (so the mrs tells me)

[b4pete]

Got mine here, its so small!!

How do you get it out of the holder though?
Lol

[MatJohnson]

Got mine here, its so small!!

How do you get it out of the holder though?
Lol

there's no smiley for snigger :)

[bbkRob]

put it in a flat surface with the wire away from you. Put your index fingers on the side mounting lugs and push away from you with your thumbs.

[JonyNitro]

thanks got mine today

[MatJohnson]

Used mine last night. Although I was being stupid and mounted it on/near the receiver. Didn't have a lot of control :)

[Kirby]

Ordered mine today before the price goes up :)

Hope i get it before my next race on the 9th of January or i will have to drill a hole in my new shell :(

[Spencer Mulcahy]

Where do you order them from in this country dont want to pay the silly postage cheers. I have looked through this thread but cant see it anywhere.

[Dazzler]

Google BBK software.

[Big G]

seems like they're just as expensive than the old one. I can't see the same not happening again where the price just goes up and up. Weren't the originals like £30 on day 1? now these are £57.50 for harry and that's at a lower VAT rate than before. :thumbdown:

List the introductory rate at £30 and I'll part with £60 for 2 no problem.

[mikeyscott]

Looking at the trade in offer. What condition does the old AMB PT have to be in? Mine needs the wire connectors resoldering and worked fine until then.

Will there be stock before Petit?

[Dazzler]

The MyLaps site says it must be in working order under the T's & C's of the trade in offer.
I'm sure BBK still have some for out-right purchase, no idea on trade in stock, as this seems to separated for some reason.

[mikeyscott]

The MyLaps site says it must be in working order under the T's & C's of the trade in offer.
I'm sure BBK still have some for out-right purchase, no idea on trade in stock, as this seems to separated for some reason.

Time for a pit of soldering then and heat shrink :)

[ashleyb4]

Just ordered a second one save me having to switch between cars.

A

[Spencer Mulcahy]

I have got mine, and lipo in both cars now wow I am fully teched up now yay.