Any truth in this rumour?

[Smartalec]

Quote on their club section from Scott Westbury, Chairman of Bedfordshire RC Model Car Club

"Interesting to hear through the grapevine that the BRCA are looking at dropping the AMBrc system as their system of choice - so even the big boys realise they have been paying through the nose for what really is just a little circuit board and some clever chips all wrapped up with wires. :thumbsup: "

Anyone else heard this one?

[mark christopher]

it is true the brca were tasked to look at alternative lap counting systems yes

[Smartalec]

What alternatives did they look at?

[DaSloth]

It will be very hard with to move across unless something can be found which works with what drivers and clubs already have. no one likes to have to spend alot money on this sort of thing, but the only thing that's worse is being told its now no longer to be used.

[Battle_axe]

i guess i laps and the system being developed im my shed its only £1000 not £4000 like amb :P

[Dazzler]

This would be all well and good if it were a practical way forwards, but the reality is that there are a considerable number of clubs who currently own AMBrc systems, who having payed out would continue to use the system, and there must be thousands or racers who have invested in compatable transponders. So for this to be really viable, any new system would need to be compatable with current PT's, (AMB or clone) as a minimum, if it were the case that the BRCA had a new 'system of choice', and it was not compatible then there would be a lot of racers with expensive, redundant PT's.. I think they would be equally as unhappy with the sittuation then as clubs are now with the expense.

But then, new pt's might be a fiver and decoders at only a tenner - to hell with the expense!

[Smartalec]

This would be all well and good if it were a practical way forwards, but the reality is that there are a considerable number of clubs who currently own AMBrc systems, who having payed out would continue to use the system, and there must be thousands or racers who have invested in compatable transponders. So for this to be really viable, any new system would need to be compatable with current PT's, (AMB or clone) as a minimum, if it were the case that the BRCA had a new 'system of choice', and it was not compatible then there would be a lot of racers with expensive, redundant PT's.. I think they would be equally as unhappy with the sittuation then as clubs are now with the expense.

But then, new pt's might be a fiver and decoders at only a tenner - to hell with the expense!
The Bedford club who made the quote are using something called I-lap (I think), it's an overhead sensor based system that uses a sensor inside the clear window of the car and is picked up when the car goes underneath a "bridge". I think the driver has to cough up £35 for one of the units or rent one off the club for a couple of quid a night. Personally, I can't see many people spending their hard earned £35 to race there once a week especially as it would be useless anywhere else. You might as well buy yourself a PT and be able to race at 90 per cent of the tracks in the country. :thumbsup:

[Dazzler]

I would expect that there will be a number of PT's changing hands shortly - I would think at a lesser price than they have been selling for recently on our favorite auction site. The difference in cost between a PT which is compatible at all BRCA events and a high number of clubs and that of one which isn't, is unfortunately not enough for the individual racer. For the club, the recieving equipment for I-Laps is fairly cheap (compared to an AMB decoder), but there are limitations which are making it of a much less user friendly system than the AMBrc currently is. In short, unless you have a club full of racers dedicated to that one club alone, then it will still be an extra expense rather than an alternative.
Why can't MRT produce a system that will work with their clones? Anybody know the facts?

[showtime]

they had something similar at Newbury before they invested in an AMB system.
it seemed to work OK most of the time, frustrating when it didn't though
never ever really have a prob when running the AMB stuff

[jim76]

Why can't MRT produce a system that will work with their clones? Anybody know the facts?

think that is the plan, but not sure on timescales

[Si Coe]

I think the point here is that this would be a system for the BRCA nationals. Not a club system, one owned by the BRCA, kept by them and travels to all nationals.
Which means it doesn't need to be compatible with anything at all. They turn up before the national, set their system up in place of the clubs one (which is how it always used to be anyway), issue their transponders as handouts, run the event then pack up.

The racer does not have to buy or rent anything. All they do is use the system as a handout.
The only 'downside' is that your PT is pointless at a national so you'll have to use the handout like all the paupers who can't afford PTs!

[showtime]

so basically its rubbish then :thumbdown:

[Dazzler]

Si, Your signature sums up what I think to that principle.... Pre-historic..

Would be a step backwards for sure, rushing around to get a transponder before your race, then back in after your race, at the same time they want you out marshalling. :thumbdown:

Next we'll be putting Nicads back in our cars and brushed motors so we have even less time between races and more to do..

Are there any BRCA commitee members on here who can advise what progression has been made with regards looking at new systems, compatabillity, commonallity etc. etc..?

[Agt26]

I can't believe they would change for a different system that wouldn't work with an amb transponder :confused:

[Si Coe]

That depends. If you think about it from the point of view of the official timekeeper there are a number of advantages. Critically they maintain complete control over all the timing systems and transponders so can insure each part works perfectly.

Its not exactly unusual - lots of sports do lap timing solely with hand out transponders - even professional motorsport where systems are removed for the cars after each race to avoid tampering. We are odd in that we have and allow PT use.

As for the handing over transponders part - some people already have to do this, so its only fair. I have a PT myself but at the recent Bury indoor series I've been running two classes and using a handout in Truck. I agree its a faff, but all it does it put me on a level footing with those who haven't paid for expensive PT's. I'm not being penalised, I've just had an unfair advantage removed.

[Smartalec]

Personally I think PT's should be compulsory at National level. It makes life a whole lot simpler and would speed up the time in between rounds, making the day end a little sooner (especially Sunday). Most of the people at a National event have travelled a fair way to get there, getting home on the Sunday after is a nightmare at best so any time saved would be welcomed by all. I can't see why they would want to change to anything else that isn't compatible with the AMB.

Clubs purchasing anything else are surely alienating themselves and would struggle to get anyone apart from a few hard-core members to attend their meetings.

In the case of the Bedford club with the I-lap system, they are building an off-road track that would be really welcomed in the area as we need more tracks on the regional map but by running this system they would charge everyone who entered a couple of quid to rent one of their units to race there, or you could of course pay the £35 to race there once a year. It saves the club some initial money but it doesn't really save the user in the long run :thumbdown:

[mark christopher]

I can't believe they would change for a different system that wouldn't work with an amb transponder :confused:

no one said they are, fact is they were tasked to look at other systems. Chris hardisty, chairman of the brca, explained the outcome at the main brca agm.

[Smartalec]

no one said they are, fact is they were tasked to look at other systems. Chris hardisty, chairman of the brca, explained the outcome at the main brca agm.
Which was?

[mark christopher]

i can not fully rember, so instead ill advise you to email the chairman for a direct answer.

[c0sie]

I know that the BRCA are looking at other options, but I dont know about "dropping AMB as their choice timing system".

Its always healthy to look around...

[Big G]

Would be a step backwards for sure, rushing around to get a transponder before your race, then back in after your race, at the same time they want you out marshalling. :thumbdown:


No more handing the car to the missus after the race has finished and going straight from the rostrum to my marshall point then. ("Hold it by the shock tower then if you don't want to get your hands dirty!")

I couldn't go back to hand outs again :(

[knighthawk]

Just been looking at this I-Laps system that's been mentioned.

The main problem I see is that the Transponder has to have a clear view of the Loop, I.E. it must be located so it can see out a clear windscreen.

See this link:
http://www.rclapcounter.com/page2/page2.html

[Dazzler]

Which was?

Taken from the AGM Mins..

'Chris Yardy asked if there was any information about alternative timing systems and Charlie explained that although mentioned at the main
AGM indications were that we were still some way off finding a viable alternative to AMB.'

[Mad-Wolfie]

Taken from the AGM Mins..

'Chris Yardy asked if there was any information about alternative timing systems and Charlie explained that although mentioned at the main
AGM indications were that we were still some way off finding a viable alternative to AMB.'



A rumour i heard (& i must emphasise the fact it is merely rumour at this stage) was that a timing system was being looked at that is low cost & is loosely based on shop security systems.. i.e the security tag you have on your CD's, clothes etc that the sales assistant removes at the till would be adapted into a transponder you stick into your car & the loop that you go through at the door that normally goes off if the tag goes past would be adapted into a timing loop. This does mean though as the technology already exists & is in use pretty much everywhere in shops it would be low cost & transponders would potentially cost peanuts & clubs could sell a transponder to members for something like £1 a time & there is almost a limitless number of transponders - similar technology has been adapted as vehicle tagging systems (Datatag).

There is also the AMBit system on the horizon - don't know a lot about it other than what i've read on the website & heard that it may become the norm by the end of the year. but to quote...

indications were that we were still some way off finding a viable alternative to AMB.

Any new system (regardless of what it is) i know will no doubt be lower cost which will mean that clubs & drivers who have spent a fortune on trasnponders & older / current timing systems will feel put out & feel they have to spend again & dip into their pockets, however it's progress - are you browsing this site using a 486 or did you upgrade when it got old & costly to repair because parts were getting rare?? think how much games consoles cost these days & then look at what they cost in the 80's & then consider how much technology has advanced!! Plus any new system would i imagine be very accurate with lap times counted to the .000th of a second, where older AMB systems i beleive can't go that low.. RC probably wouldn't need that level of accuracy, but it would be there if needed.

[RogerM]

The only 'downside' is that your PT is pointless at a national so you'll have to use the handout like all the paupers who can't afford PTs!

Or those people like myself who have a PT (from 1/8th rallycross days) but choose not to use it as they believe it is a disadvantage!

[c0sie]

Or those people like myself who have a PT (from 1/8th rallycross days) but choose not to use it as they believe it is a disadvantage!

Only you :) ....

[RcRob]

Or those people like myself who have a PT (from 1/8th rallycross days) but choose not to use it as they believe it is a disadvantage!

Are you on Crack? :bored:

You pay £££ for something, then don't bother using it 'cos it's a disadvantage, but don't sell it, yet complain everywhere else (in between the K-Love) how little money you have to spend on racing......

[super__dan]

I'll have it Rog?

[seancormier]

We have been using the I-LAP counting system for two race season so far,and it has worked FLAWLESSLY .
This is the BEST alternative to the MYLAPS/AMB .
Yes,it does have to have a clear line of sight to the sensor ,but it's easy to do.We use our's on a outdoor off road track and the signal will even go through dirt,mud and even some painted bodies.We suggest a small hole in the body just above the transponder for the best result.This system is just as accurate as a AMB.For the price it is worth the money! Tracks who use the I-LAP usually have a track set of transponders for racers to use ,so buying a transponder is not needed for the racers who shows up once in a while.
MYLAPS/AMB has had a monopoly on lap counter's and now they have competition for the club track scene.Plus with a price increase coming on the AMB,new track owners and track who want a new system would foolish not to look into the I-LAP.This is just used to count laps .A die hard racer will race not matter what lap counter is being used,and like i said before can always go back to hand counting!
www.rclapcounter.com

Sean

[MRD]

Lets face it, apart from the cost there's nothing wrong with the current system. I don't to what degree the current system is copyrighted but I'm sure MRT are working on somthing. A cheap repro of the MyLaps system is the Holy Grail of electronics so its only a matter of time before it happens.

[Smartalec]

We have been using the I-LAP counting system for two race season so far,and it has worked FLAWLESSLY .
This is the BEST alternative to the MYLAPS/AMB .
Yes,it does have to have a clear line of sight to the sensor ,but it's easy to do.We use out's on a outdoor off road track and the signal will even go through dirt,mud and even some painted bodies.We suggest a small hole in the body just above the transponder for the best result.This system is just as accurate as a AMB.For the price it is worth the money! Tracks who use the I-LAP usually have a track set of transponders for racers to use ,so buying a transponder is not needed for the racers who shows up once in a while.
MYLAPS/AMB has had a monopoly on lap counter's and now they have competition for the club track scene.Plus with a price increase coming on the AMB,new track owners and track who want a new system would foolish not to look into the I-LAP.This is just used to count laps .A die hard racer will race not matter what lap counter is being used,and like i said before can always go back to hand counting!
www.rclapcounter.com

Sean


WOW, I didn't need glasses to read this one :lol:

[jim76]

WOW, I didn't need glasses to read this one :lol:

you should wear them for driving though from what i've seen!! :p:lol:

[Mad-Wolfie]

I have heard though, because the Ilap system works on an Infra-red system & not microwave radio or whatever other witchcraft the more traditional transponders work on, that ILap is no good for outdoor track use when there is bright sunshine (because the sunshine screws up the signals between the car & the loop) or if the start line is situated on a sun trap, or it only works well indoors. Can anyone confirm this?

Plus i can't imagine Ilap being much use for off-road use - think about it, you are following a car & it sprays up a big rooster tail & coats your car in crud or if a layer of thick dust coats the innards of the car after being sprayed from the tyres.. surely as the Ilap system works from infra-red light, if that light gets blocked out your car will not register as you cross the loop.

[HandyRacing]

Isn't AMB now MyLAPS due to a buy out / merger?

[Smartalec]

you should wear them for driving though from what i've seen!! :p:lol:
LOL, you're probably right judging by my recent results :lol:

........and you need them next time you enter a model shop. The last time you went in you picked up a madrat by mistake (surely it was a mistake?) :p

[Smartalec]

I have heard though, because the Ilap system works on an Infra-red system & not microwave radio or whatever other witchcraft the more traditional transponders work on, that ILap is no good for outdoor track use when there is bright sunshine (because the sunshine screws up the signals between the car & the loop) or if the start line is situated on a sun trap, or it only works well indoors. Can anyone confirm this?

Plus i can't imagine Ilap being much use for off-road use - think about it, you are following a car & it sprays up a big rooster tail & coats your car in crud or if a layer of thick dust coats the innards of the car after being sprayed from the tyres.. surely as the Ilap system works from infra-red light, if that light gets blocked out your car will not register as you cross the loop.
Not sure on the exact ruling but I was under the impression that at BRCA sanctioned events you need three numbers on the car, one of which has to be on the front window. That would make the I-lap sensor very awkward to use wouldn't it?. Yes, as has been said, you can drill holes in your body and mount it under there but who wants to do that to their newly painted shell?

[AlisdairO]

Lets face it, apart from the cost there's nothing wrong with the current system.

That's quite a big 'apart from', though, isn't it?

I know it doesn't matter a great deal to racers at the nat level who are likely to be more willing/able to invest cash in AMB kit, but if the BRCA can encourage alternative lap counters that actually work I'm all for it. The AMB systems aren't just a 'bit' expensive, they're genuinely ludicrous, and a massive cost drag for clubs. Personally I would like to see a bit of real competition for them, and that's not going to happen if every time someone tries an alternative everyone complains that their PTs don't work.

As you say, a cheap copy of the AMB system would be great, but if that's somehow not possible I'm all for the BRCA supporting alternatives.

[MatJohnson]

I would say that AMB have the patents well established for the technology so its going to be a swine to copy but you never know.

[Mad-Wolfie]

Not sure on the exact ruling but I was under the impression that at BRCA sanctioned events you need three numbers on the car, one of which has to be on the front window. That would make the I-lap sensor very awkward to use wouldn't it?. Yes, as has been said, you can drill holes in your body and mount it under there but who wants to do that to their newly painted shell?

i also read somewhere that another option was to leave an unpainted square on your roof (so it looks like an open top or a clear glass sunroof) but as you say BRCA rulings would make this awkward, after all the BRCA rules say the car must be painted apart from the more usual windows - the only other thing you can leave unpainted is a wing. I suppose you could mask out a sunroof & use that special tinting paint that you can use to turn clear windows into tinted windows (but wouldn't be allowed on the windows themselves at a BRCA event), this would get past the "shells must be painted" rule as you have applied paint to the roof, but this seems a bit of a faff plus if 1 track on the BRCA nationals used Ilaps it would put a real spanner in the works with regards the regulations, plus again it would impede the light.

[jim76]

it would be no problem for me, i would just point the sensor in the car to fire through the hole where i usually pin my handout!!! lol

[MRD]

That's quite a big 'apart from', though, isn't it?

I know it doesn't matter a great deal to racers at the nat level who are likely to be more willing/able to invest cash in AMB kit, but if the BRCA can encourage alternative lap counters that actually work I'm all for it. The AMB systems aren't just a 'bit' expensive, they're genuinely ludicrous, and a massive cost drag for clubs. Personally I would like to see a bit of real competition for them, and that's not going to happen if every time someone tries an alternative everyone complains that their PTs don't work.

As you say, a cheap copy of the AMB system would be great, but if that's somehow not possible I'm all for the BRCA supporting alternatives.

I understand exactly what you're saying but I was meaning the techology and reliability is sound. We have a club that needs a complete timing gear set but don't have £3000 to spend so we've have looked into most of the common alternatives but nothing seems to be as easy to use as the MyLaps.

I actually thought of buying the decoder myself. It sounds a bit mad as theyre £2000 but they hold their money and are always in demand. The Old old systems are still selling for silly money. In contrast I have a 1/5 FG Evo that has about £2000 invested in it which if I came to sell it would fetch about £600-700 max even tho its absolutely mint and I hardly use it.

[seancormier]

Mad-wolfie

To answer your question about sun light ,NO it does not affect it.Also the I-LAP will still read even with dirt and mud on it.We use it for outdoor off road and have not had any problems!I think if you and some other's on this forum went to a track using the I-LAP system ,and race for a day with it.You would change your mind about it and would say it is a great system.I believe racers just have to use it and ALL questions about it would be answered!

sean

[bedsrcmcc]

Mad-wolfie

To answer your question about sun light ,NO it does not affect it.Also the I-LAP will still read even with dirt and mud on it.We use it for outdoor off road and have not had any problems!I think if you and some other's on this forum went to a track using the I-LAP system ,and race for a day with it.You would change your mind about it and would say it is a great system.I believe racers just have to use it and ALL questions about it would be answered!

sean

I thought it would be useful to put my side of the story as some smartalec's on here seem intend on spouting off views without even thinking first...

First of all, the club I setup does not run I-Laps yet, but have purchased one and in fact had it delivered today. I have spoken with many 'local' clubs who use it in the UK and everyone has told me it works perfectly, and it's even used by Gokarting clubs so it's very robust.

I have tested the full kit today and everything works, even beneath a painted bodyshell, I think the point about being visible from the windscreen is simply to ensure the best chance of being counted, but I found the sensors worked fine, even with my dark blue painted bodyshell.

Unfortunately, there are some on this forum who think RC racing is only for those who want to participate in National meetings. Well surprise suprise, RC racing can be enjoyed, and should be enjoyed by everyone, even those who have no interest in trying to get their name up in lights!!! The only reason our club affiliated with the BRCA was for insurance purposes as I couldn't find a better deal anywhere. We run a very successful local club that is here for local drivers, not those who like to drive up and down the UK every weekend. You keep doing what you do and we'll keep providing a fun and entertaining environment for those who enjoy what we do.

None of our members have had a problem with paying the £35 we are charging them for their personal transponders. We do in fact have some members who race at bigger meetings and they've also bought the PT's for the I-Laps system we now own and will be racing in 2010.

Sean, I'm with you on this one, we are a local club who've only been going for 6 months, we may have 18 members and a pool of 35 drivers who come from week to week, but there is no way we could afford the AMB system. It's a rip off and the sooner local clubs become aware of this the quicker I-Laps will establish here in the UK.

For what it's worth to those who slag it off (not that they will bother to read this :cry:) I have had lots of PM on this forum from clubs up and down the country who are keen to see how we get on with it as they to feel the same way as we did about the overpriced circuit board and chips that AMB sell.

As to the BRCA, well they did look into changing, but have stuck with AMB - albeit under a new name following the merger of two companies. Still the over priced kit for local clubs to purchase...

Discussion and debate is a great thing, shame it get's ruined by those who are less informed and blinkered :eh?:

PS. A huge thanks to the author of the OP for all the free PR you have given us ;)

[seancormier]

bedsrrmcc

You bought a great system for the club.Please post once the club guy's have had a chance to race with it.If you have any question about it please ask ,i may be able to help.One thing ,even though it read through the blue paint in the body.It would still put it in a clear spot on the body.
Just wondering how many bridge sensor's did you end up getting? we used 8 for a ten foot track width.

Best of luck with the I-LAP and racing!:thumbsup:

Sean

[bedsrcmcc]

bedsrrmcc

You bought a great system for the club.Please post once the club guy's have had a chance to race with it.If you have any question about it please ask ,i may be able to help.One thing ,even though it read through the blue paint in the body.It would still put it in a clear spot on the body.
Just wondering how many bridge sensor's did you end up getting? we used 8 for a ten foot track width.

Best of luck with the I-LAP and racing!:thumbsup:

Sean

Yep, I will still put it into a position where the sensor can see it through the windscreen, but it was just interesting to know that it can still be read through dark paint! Just shows what a good system it is really.

I will certainly be posting reviews of this system as so many people have been keen to know how we get on. I'm just so glad that a guy at our club pointed me to this system :)

Everyone at the club has been waiting months for this to come... :drool:

We've got 5 sensors for a 2m wide start finish line indoors. We shall be ordering a few more once the outdoor track is built, but we are currently going through planning permission so hard to tell what width we shall have, though the size of the land means it's going to be big... NO! VERY BIG :woot:

We already have the JCB ready and waiting to start building the track...

Keep an eye out on our web site at www.bedsrcmcc.co.uk (http://www.bedsrcmcc.co.uk) for news updates about the outdoor track - the wait is really going to be worth it for all our current club members and those who have already shown a strong interest in running off road when we start.

FYI we are going to be running 1:10 and 1:18 buggies / trucks outdoors.

[Marvin]

The only thing about the AMB system is that surely, in this circumstance, it's better for all if there is a monopoly in place? You know that pretty much any club you turn up to will run AMB, and your PT will work.

Even the new RC4 transponders aren't that expensive.

I will say though, an MRT system (copy of the AMB one, but will work in conjunction) would be the best bet - still supports everyones AMB PTs, but also new MRT transponders - perhaps have an extra digit for the MRT PTs, so there is no clashing to worry about?

[bedsrcmcc]

The only thing about the AMB system is that surely, in this circumstance, it's better for all if there is a monopoly in place?

Why?

I'm not interested in having people from all over the country visiting our club and racing. We chose a system that is best for our club and our local drivers.

The problem with having a Monopoly has been clearly shown in the price that the AMB system costs?

I know it's not a great comparision but... I can get a fully functional HD handheld video recorder, high spec PC and software to edit the HD Video, HD DVD burner to burn discs a HD DVD player and a good sized HD LCD TV screen to watch the HD video on and still have change from what it would cost a small start-up club to pay to be 'part of the AMB gang!' :eh?:

Look at all the technology that goes in all the above, then look at the technology that goes into an AMB system and tell me why it costs £1000's instead of £100's to purchase...?

The answer is: MONOPOLY.

That's why it is not good for the sport at local level.

[AlisdairO]

The only thing about the AMB system is that surely, in this circumstance, it's better for all if there is a monopoly in place? You know that pretty much any club you turn up to will run AMB, and your PT will work.

Even the new RC4 transponders aren't that expensive.


Monopolies are rarely a good thing. It's cool that I can take my PT anywhere and it will work and all, but the flipside is that AMB can charge practically whatever they want and people have to pay it. If there were two serious contenders producing lap counting technology, there's no way the kit would cost so much - it's that simple. They might not be that expensive to you, but to club racers who are on more of a budget, it's perhaps a different matter. MRT have shown that there's nothing about the transponders that means they have to cost *that* much - and I'd be willing to bet they could come down further if AMB cut their prices in response.

Really, though, it's not the cost of the transponders that gets me so much: people who don't want to pay the PT tax can always use club handouts. It's the cost of the detection gear, and the fact that it's such a massive hit for the clubs. If the evidence on oople is anything go buy, racers are really intolerant of clubs using non-AMB systems, which hardly helps. While it might be a bit more hassle for you, you should be happy that they're encouraging competition amongst lap counters, so that more clubs will be able to afford such systems in the future.

[Marvin]

In fact, I don't use an AMB (can't afford one - though might get an RC4), I use an MRT.

Using some simple economics, a monopoly is a good thing in this case - hopefully AMB/MyLaps will learn this time that if you raise the price so high, that profit margin will attract competitors (as it has done). This has caused AMB to drop the price of the new RC4 to just a little above the MRT. This is practising predatory pricing - they are trying to force the competitors out of the market. Hopefully this experience that if they charge what they want, people will find alternatives, will cause them to keep the price low enough that competitors won't be attracted by the rediculously high profit margins of before.

I'd agree that the comparison between the AMB system and the HD capable equipment isn't a good one. They are completely different entities - sure they are both electronic equipment, but look at the production numbers! An AMB decoder is hardly going to be more than a 100s or low 1000s production number, whilst an HD TV will be produced in 10,000s at least. Also, TV manufacturers tend to be large companies with resulting efficiency gains - due to economies of scale. Not only that, as I have found with 'RC electronics' vs 'consumer electronics', the RC electrics are made to a far higher quality - just a look at the operating temperature ranges will show you the difference in component quality - for example an ESC - rated to go from about -20°C to 80°C, whilst a TV from 10°C to 40°. The components must be far, far higher quality to be able to withstand that. This does even extend into off-track equipment such as chargers, power supplies et al, so I'd have reason to believe the AMB equipment is made to similar standards - they don't tend to fail!

[dave g]

an led vary rarely fails..but it doesnt cost over £90 :)

there are no moving parts,very minimal power usage so shouldnt really go wrong,the mrt ones are just as reliable and half the cost,as you say,i think thats why they have dropped the price which is great for the consumer.

what i never understood is why,in this age where electronics are getting cheaper and cheaper,does the amb pt double in price over the last few years,its certainly not inflation.

[Smartalec]

I thought it would be useful to put my side of the story as some smartalec's on here seem intend on spouting off views without even thinking first...

Unfortunately, there are some on this forum who think RC racing is only for those who want to participate in National meetings. Well surprise suprise, RC racing can be enjoyed, and should be enjoyed by everyone, even those who have no interest in trying to get their name up in lights!!! The only reason our club affiliated with the BRCA was for insurance purposes as I couldn't find a better deal anywhere. We run a very successful local club that is here for local drivers, not those who like to drive up and down the UK every weekend. You keep doing what you do and we'll keep providing a fun and entertaining environment for those who enjoy what we do.

Sean, I'm with you on this one, we are a local club who've only been going for 6 months, we may have 18 members and a pool of 35 drivers who come from week to week, but there is no way we could afford the AMB system. It's a rip off and the sooner local clubs become aware of this the quicker I-Laps will establish here in the UK.

For what it's worth to those who slag it off (not that they will bother to read this :cry:) I have had lots of PM on this forum from clubs up and down the country who are keen to see how we get on with it as they to feel the same way as we did about the overpriced circuit board and chips that AMB sell.

As to the BRCA, well they did look into changing, but have stuck with AMB - albeit under a new name following the merger of two companies. Still the over priced kit for local clubs to purchase...

Discussion and debate is a great thing, shame it get's ruined by those who are less informed and blinkered :eh?:

PS. A huge thanks to the author of the OP for all the free PR you have given us ;)
Scott, you seem to think that this post was aimed at upsetting you some how when in fact all I asked was a simple question, not a view. And in fact, I did think about it before asking :)

As to "Discussion and debate is a great thing" I agree with you .......... and that's exactly what we are doing in this post. Not so sure I agree with the "less informed and blinkered" bit, as that's what the post was meant to do ......... inform me :)

And the free PR won't do your club much good will it? ............. you don't want anyone to travel to your club to race :):confused:

[David Church]

[QUOTE=bedsrcmcc;320526]Why?

I'm not interested in having people from all over the country visiting our club and racing. We chose a system that is best for our club and our local drivers.







Hi Scott, why are you not interested in having more people come race at your club???
I think the more our sport/hobby has new members the better it is???

[Chequered Flag Racing]

We have been using the I-LAP counting system for two race season so far,and it has worked FLAWLESSLY .
This is the BEST alternative to the MYLAPS/AMB .
Yes,it does have to have a clear line of sight to the sensor

12th scale nationals

Most cars used open cockpit style shell, no clear windscreen for sensor to look through.

Can't see them swapping to this system as it would mean using closed cockpit shells which are considered by most to be inferior to the open cockpit for handling.

And then there's the Mardave Sidecars also

[Si Coe]

So you make a small hole in the shell for the sensor to go through. Not rocket science!

Anyway I'd like to point out that the I-Laps PT costs just £35, which means you could have got an MRT PT for tracks with AMB/MyLaps systems, and an I-Laps PT for the same price as the old AMB PTs! So no extra cost involved at all!

The fact is that even today many small or new clubs still time by the old fashioned manual 'numbers on the car' system. Why? Because its so much cheaper. Smaller clubs simply can't afford AMB/Mylaps, even used ones are pricy.

The result is something I'm sure those older hands can't fail to have noticed - the steady decline of the small 'local' club in favor of the larger 'regional' club. And this in turn leads to a drop in young people joining the sport as most of them can't travel any significant distance to race. As a teacher I work with plenty of kids who are fascinated by my cars and would love to go racing, but couldn't possible convince their parents to drive them 45min-1hr to drop them at the track every Sunday. When I grew up little local clubs of 12-20 were common and these were never far away, so new drivers didn't need to travel much.

I'm not suggesting the current situation is AMB/Mylaps fault - its vastly too complex for that, but anything that helps redress it by helping the small club is a positive in my book

[bedsrcmcc]

[QUOTE=bedsrcmcc;320526]Why?

I'm not interested in having people from all over the country visiting our club and racing. We chose a system that is best for our club and our local drivers.

Hi Scott, why are you not interested in having more people come race at your club???
I think the more our sport/hobby has new members the better it is???

I appreciate that there are some die-hard racers that have AMB PTs who travel up and down the country to go to meetings and I do not have a problem with that.

Our club has been setup for those in the Bedfordshire and surrounding area. We have clearly laid out what we do and how we go about it and we chose the I-Lap system based on cost and the fact that there are many clubs in the UK now using it and the feedback we've had is very very positive. As mentioned, I've been contacted by lots of clubs in PM's to let them know how we get on.

The fact so many have done so via PM says a lot to me. The fact they do not want to be shouted down for not choosing an AMB system maybe? :confused:

If there are drivers who think we should be using an AMB system, fine. We don't so don't bother coming to visit us. We have more than enough people interested in racing with us and other clubs who run it, so in time there will be just as many people using I-Laps as there are AMB which is great for our hobby and therefore I-Laps should be supported by as many as those who support AMB.

The beauty of this world is we all have a choice. Our choice was I-Laps, others have a chocie to visit us and use it or not - simple as that. :thumbsup:

[bedsrcmcc]

So you make a small hole in the shell for the sensor to go through. Not rocket science!

Anyway I'd like to point out that the I-Laps PT costs just £35, which means you could have got an MRT PT for tracks with AMB/MyLaps systems, and an I-Laps PT for the same price as the old AMB PTs! So no extra cost involved at all!

The fact is that even today many small or new clubs still time by the old fashioned manual 'numbers on the car' system. Why? Because its so much cheaper. Smaller clubs simply can't afford AMB/Mylaps, even used ones are pricy.

The result is something I'm sure those older hands can't fail to have noticed - the steady decline of the small 'local' club in favor of the larger 'regional' club. And this in turn leads to a drop in young people joining the sport as most of them can't travel any significant distance to race. As a teacher I work with plenty of kids who are fascinated by my cars and would love to go racing, but couldn't possible convince their parents to drive them 45min-1hr to drop them at the track every Sunday. When I grew up little local clubs of 12-20 were common and these were never far away, so new drivers didn't need to travel much.

I'm not suggesting the current situation is AMB/Mylaps fault - its vastly too complex for that, but anything that helps redress it by helping the small club is a positive in my book

HERE HERE :drool:

I think you've hit the spot with this post.

Too many people on this forum think the world revoles around regional and national meetings - well surpirse surprise it doen't :thumbdown:

Our club is a LOCAL club and that's how I want it to stay. As I've mentioned before, if I could find cheaper public indemnity insurance I would leave the BRCA in a second. That's the only reason we are affiliated with them as they don't really give much support to the small local clubs and are only interested in supporting regional and national meetings/groups.

We have lots of young kids racing with us and it's a great atmosphere for all. I've raced at regional meetings in the past and maybe I had a bad experience, but I wouldn't say it was enjoyable at all. I race because I love racing RC cars. I have no interest in being the best in my region or the UK. I simply enjoy providing an environment where fellow fans of RC cars can have fun too - that's what the goal of our club was and we are doing very well :)

I've also run clubs in the past where we have had 100 drivers turn up for an outdoor meeting and we've managed to keep that same feeling which is a great thing to see. Yes we race competitively, but at the same time we do not want to scare off new blood into the sport.

[bedsrcmcc]

Scott, you seem to think that this post was aimed at upsetting you some how when in fact all I asked was a simple question, not a view. And in fact, I did think about it before asking :)

As to "Discussion and debate is a great thing" I agree with you .......... and that's exactly what we are doing in this post. Not so sure I agree with the "less informed and blinkered" bit, as that's what the post was meant to do ......... inform me :)

And the free PR won't do your club much good will it? ............. you don't want anyone to travel to your club to race :):confused:

One of these days you will read your own posts and realise that your tone upsets people quite a lot - it certainly has at our club!!! :mad:

Just because clubs like ours do not do things your way does not mean you are right, or even that we are right.

It's a matter of choice. You choose your way and be happy, and we'll choose our way and be happy too.

[Marvin]

The I-Laps system is all well and good for onroad - no denying it. But for off-road (where it may have rained?) a sensor that relies on line of sight isn't going to work great. Sure, when it's dry and dusty, it'll work fine, but any weather change (and look at the UK - it's hardly dry all the time), and the system isn't going to be effective, particularly when cars come back looking like this:
http://gallery.neobuggy.net/2008-Races/2008-IFMAR-Worlds/Wet-Tuesday/IMG9952/580245839_Me9NZ-M.jpg

[bedsrcmcc]

I love that shot Marvin :thumbsup:

However, our club's long term goal for the off-road track is to be astro-turf so our cars will never get to look like that one in the photo.

[David Church]

[QUOTE=David Church;320587]

I appreciate that there are some die-hard racers that have AMB PTs who travel up and down the country to go to meetings and I do not have a problem with that.

Our club has been setup for those in the Bedfordshire and surrounding area. We have clearly laid out what we do and how we go about it and we chose the I-Lap system based on cost and the fact that there are many clubs in the UK now using it and the feedback we've had is very very positive. As mentioned, I've been contacted by lots of clubs in PM's to let them know how we get on.

The fact so many have done so via PM says a lot to me. The fact they do not want to be shouted down for not choosing an AMB system maybe? :confused:

If there are drivers who think we should be using an AMB system, fine. We don't so don't bother coming to visit us. We have more than enough people interested in racing with us and other clubs who run it, so in time there will be just as many people using I-Laps as there are AMB which is great for our hobby and therefore I-Laps should be supported by as many as those who support AMB.

The beauty of this world is we all have a choice. Our choice was I-Laps, others have a chocie to visit us and use it or not - simple as that. :thumbsup:

HERE HERE :drool:

I think you've hit the spot with this post.

Too many people on this forum think the world revoles around regional and national meetings - well surpirse surprise it doen't :thumbdown:

Our club is a LOCAL club and that's how I want it to stay. As I've mentioned before, if I could find cheaper public indemnity insurance I would leave the BRCA in a second. That's the only reason we are affiliated with them as they don't really give much support to the small local clubs and are only interested in supporting regional and national meetings/groups.

We have lots of young kids racing with us and it's a great atmosphere for all. I've raced at regional meetings in the past and maybe I had a bad experience, but I wouldn't say it was enjoyable at all. I race because I love racing RC cars. I have no interest in being the best in my region or the UK. I simply enjoy providing an environment where fellow fans of RC cars can have fun too - that's what the goal of our club was and we are doing very well :)

I've also run clubs in the past where we have had 100 drivers turn up for an outdoor meeting and we've managed to keep that same feeling which is a great thing to see. Yes we race competitively, but at the same time we do not want to scare off new blood into the sport.


I don't think it is about die hard racers that travel up and down the country, I think it is about racing full stop, and you have said you only want local racers! Certainly everyone should be welcome, no matter where you live or what transponder you use!!!
And as far as the association you have with the BRCA, well you should appreciate their help, after all they provide you with insurance, and the officials do this with no reward, ie no pay!!! So what do you expect from the BRCA???

[bedsrcmcc]

The overall impression that I'm getting from a minority of some on this forum is that if you do not run an AMB system then your club is not worth visiting :bored:.

It's about choice. I'm happy to welcome anyone to our club, but they have to play by our rules. If they are not happy, fine. Go and find another club that will.

Trust me, I'm getting emails from a lot of people keen to know when our off-road track is up and running and they know we'll be running the I-Laps system.

We as a club have no worries looking forward... :)

I'm just a little sick of the negative comments being made by a small number of people about I-Laps and I bet they have never raced at a club that use them...

Here's to a fantastic 2010 for our club and our members. :thumbsup:

[Marvin]

I'm not saying that the iLaps system is bad - far from it. I think you need to stop taking it so personally. But for certain circumstances, the AMB is better (off-road, with no luxury of astro). Also, at the moment we take for granted that we can go to a club and use our PT, and not have to worry about handouts.

[Smartalec]

One of these days you will read your own posts and realise that your tone upsets people quite a lot - it certainly has at our club!!! :mad:

Just because clubs like ours do not do things your way does not mean you are right, or even that we are right.

It's a matter of choice. You choose your way and be happy, and we'll choose our way and be happy too.
I asked you already in a PM (that you never replied to) what you meant about the "tone" of my posts? and when you say it upsets a lot of people at your club I find that hard to believe as I met three of your member last week when they travelled to look at another club and they didn't seem upset by my posts at all, in fact they introduced themselves and had a thoroughly enjoyable evening. :thumbsup:

My original post on your forum asked what class would I be racing in if I came to your club with my box standard micro 1/18th scale buggy, used by 90 per cent of the country at CLUB level. You deleted that post and the reason for deleting it says "this guy has nothing sensible to say". I pointed out that almost everyone in the country uses the LRP Shark and that it wouldn't fall inside your £150 all-in rule. You replied to my PM stating that perhaps I shouldn't waste my petrol coming to race at your club with my "expensive" kit. My kit isn't "expensive" it's the same as 90 per cent of rest of the club level drivers that have a micro :confused:

I like to travel to other clubs and race, especially when I found out that you race on slippy flooring, and have done so for years and not once has any club I have been to ever asked me to leave because my kit is too expensive :(

The I-laps system is irrelevent, if I liked racing at your club I would carry on racing there regardless of the lap counting system being used, the thing I can't understand the most is the fact that you don't want anyone who races outside of the area to visit your club :thumbdown:

When you say "the area or surrounding area" how far afield are we talking? I race off-road 1/10th the most and the nearest outdoor track is Silverstone, the next nearest is an hours drive away. Silverstone currently run 2 or 3 meetings per year so obviously I have to travel to race regularly. When your off-road track is up and running will you only be catering for "local" drivers, or can anyone come and race? :)

[showtime]

Why?

I'm not interested in having people from all over the country visiting our club and racing. We chose a system that is best for our club and our local drivers.




wow what a warm welcoming attitude :rolleyes:


wishing all you guys at the Royston Vasey RC club every success with your local championship for local drivers!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_lpwrwngWjNg/SmCMhYww2AI/AAAAAAAAEMQ/o-FWjVINwHQ/s400/accuse.jpg

[MALLET]

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[bedsrcmcc]

wow what a warm welcoming attitude :rolleyes:

We welcome anyone to come along and join our club to race indoors with 1:10th scale Touring Cars and from 2010 we will also be catering for the great little bundles of RC fun which are the 1:18th scale buggies and trucks.

As and when our outdoor track planning permission goes through we will have a stunning venue for regular meetings throughout the year every 2 weeks (weather permitting) and we shall be running 1:10th scale buggies and trucks on that track and also entertaining the little cars again with 1:18 scale buggies and trucks, while still racing every Friday indoors.

As a club we decided not to follow the BRCA rules to the letter and therefore are not so strict which allows those who've never raced before to feel very welcome indeed. Our web site has all the details. Currently there are no rules for the smaller cars but the club's committee will be discussing this next year as we see how this new class for the club progresses...

Best news of all is that the club has finally taken delivery of the I-Laps lap counting system which everyone at the club has been waiting several months for now since we first discussed it. Don't worry if you do not own the Personal Transponder for the I-Laps system, the club has purchased some extras which we will be renting out at each meeting.

The goal of the club has always been to encourage competitive driving which we certainly have each week, but more importantly to foster an environment that encourages new fans of racing RC to come along and feel welcomed and not fearful of racing with seasoned drivers. This is one area which the club excels in and everyone who comes along to race for the first time keep coming back for more.

We've welcomed dozens of potential young and old drivers new to the world of RC racing over the past few months and I'm sure that once Santa has dropped off what they were hoping to get that we shall be welcoming more new faces to the club in 2010.

Don't get me wrong, the BRCA is a good yard stick, but that does not mean that local clubs should be prevented from doing things differently, afterall as I've always tried to put across we offer choice - something different...

Make your choice :thumbsup:

That's the last on this matter from me :woot:

[Dazzler]

This system by robitronic seems to have the same basic priciple as the iLaps system.

http://www.robitronic.com/lap-counter-en.html

Are any clubs using this system?

219 Euro's for the basic system - decoder, bridge sensors and 3 PT's

29 Euro's per additional PT.

All plus postage/delivery.

Seems very similar to the i laps system, and looks quite well packaged.

[Smartalec]

We welcome anyone to come along and join our club to race indoors with 1:10th scale Touring Cars and from 2010 we will also be catering for the great little bundles of RC fun which are the 1:18th scale buggies and trucks.

As and when our outdoor track planning permission goes through we will have a stunning venue for regular meetings throughout the year every 2 weeks (weather permitting) and we shall be running 1:10th scale buggies and trucks on that track and also entertaining the little cars again with 1:18 scale buggies and trucks, while still racing every Friday indoors.

As a club we decided not to follow the BRCA rules to the letter and therefore are not so strict which allows those who've never raced before to feel very welcome indeed. Our web site has all the details. Currently there are no rules for the smaller cars but the club's committee will be discussing this next year as we see how this new class for the club progresses...

Best news of all is that the club has finally taken delivery of the I-Laps lap counting system which everyone at the club has been waiting several months for now since we first discussed it. Don't worry if you do not own the Personal Transponder for the I-Laps system, the club has purchased some extras which we will be renting out at each meeting.

The goal of the club has always been to encourage competitive driving which we certainly have each week, but more importantly to foster an environment that encourages new fans of racing RC to come along and feel welcomed and not fearful of racing with seasoned drivers. This is one area which the club excels in and everyone who comes along to race for the first time keep coming back for more.

We've welcomed dozens of potential young and old drivers new to the world of RC racing over the past few months and I'm sure that once Santa has dropped off what they were hoping to get that we shall be welcoming more new faces to the club in 2010.

Don't get me wrong, the BRCA is a good yard stick, but that does not mean that local clubs should be prevented from doing things differently, afterall as I've always tried to put across we offer choice - something different...

Make your choice :thumbsup:

That's the last on this matter from me :woot:Wow, what an amazing turn around from the earlier post where you didn't want any drivers turning up from around the country to race at your club ........... now you want to welcome anyone along with open arms as long as they are total beginners :woot:

What happens when they get better? ........... are they banned :confused:

[fidspeed]

Hi to all
This is my very first oople post so apologies to all if its not very well constructed !!
Having been involved with racing model cars since the late 80's i feel i have a fair bit of experience to fall back on !
I have followed this thread from the start and would like to give my opinion .When i started racing we had manual lap counting with clickers and bits of paper we moved through a sinclair spektrum based system through Amb 20 and now finally AMBRc .
We are now suffering with failure of handout transponders batteries are failing more frequently than we would like, a lot of our clubmembers have PT transponders but they are very expensive !!
I would welcome a competitive rival system .
To Scott well done for trying a new system best of luck and i think your last post was your best effort yet well constructed . A word of friendly advice welcome all drivers from all groups all clubs go through lean times at somepoint ours has . currently 50 drivers is average for a friday night club meeting ,look after the youngsters with little money the most they will be the future of your club.
I will follow the I laps system we may well be looking for an alternative ourselves

Dave Fiddling (Louth Radio Control Car Club)

[hashiriya]

Everyone seems to enjoy moaning a whole lot just because the reality is slightly different from the ideal.

I'm a "non local" driver who races regularly at the beds club.

I'm sure that Scott and the Beds club would love to use AMB/Mylaps for their club if it was an affordable system given the amount of money the club have available. This of course is the ideal but given that they didn't have the buddget for it, they seeked a viable alternative and the solution they reached was ilaps.

As a racer, I already owned an AMB PT. I believe I was 1 of about 3 or 4 regular racers who owned one. Most of the members at beds club are beginners who don't race at other clubs or at higher levels.

Given the above, I think the decision to go with ilaps and ask the 3 or 4 AMB owners to buy a new ilaps PT at £35 makes a lot more sense than asking almost 20 members buy a mylaps PT for almost twice as much and/or have the club shell out for much more expensive decoders/handouts etc.

On a different note, if the ilaps relys on line of sight but can work through paint on a body shell, whats to stop it from working a little bit mud/dirt on it? AMB pt's are not supposed to be mounted vertically or on top of carbon etc. but they still work despite that. I think although it's unlikely to be better than AMB/Mylaps (there I said it), I think that people are underestimating the capabilities of th eilaps system.

Once the club has their system sorted, I'll let you know how I get on with my ilaps PT compared to my AMB.

[Darrane]

We at the momment run the AMB 20 system at our club and there is know way we could afford the rc system i think its well over priced for what it is. So a bit more competition would do know harm at all and may bring the price down on all lap counting systems. i will keep my eye on this system to see how it goes all the best with your club.
Darran (Leverton Raceway)

[c0sie]

Scott,
Living not a trillion miles away from your venue I have kept my eye on these posts and had a look around your website.

Your facility looks great, loving the polished flooring! But I am also abit confused by the clubs stance on micro budget.

http://www.bedsrcmcc.co.uk/images/gallery/the-pits12.jpg

(Taken from the Beds club gallery) An ST, running pro shocks, an MRT ESC and with flipped rear arms (none standard) is no where near £150 unless im missing a trick (in which case, ill take 5 of them!)

Before I even consider taking a trip over to Beds for some pre National practise what is the stance from your club on micros racing?

Just curious...

[learnerdriver]

Scott,
Living not a trillion miles away from your venue I have kept my eye on these posts and had a look around your website.

Your facility looks great, loving the polished flooring! But I am also abit confused by the clubs stance on micro budget.

http://www.bedsrcmcc.co.uk/images/gallery/the-pits12.jpg

(Taken from the Beds club gallery) An ST, running pro shocks, an MRT ESC and with flipped rear arms (none standard) is no where near £150 unless im missing a trick (in which case, ill take 5 of them!)

Before I even consider taking a trip over to Beds for some pre National practise what is the stance from your club on micros racing?

Just curious...

That will be one half of my fleet, Mr oxley sir :thumbsup:

[c0sie]

We shall buy them all Mr Hampson sir! :D

[learnerdriver]

This week that chassis was running the SC18 phat bodies blackjack short course truck shell in domino pizza colours :woot:

[Smartalec]

This week that chassis was running the SC18 phat bodies blackjack short course truck shell in domino pizza colours :woot:
Hi Chris, doesn't that strike you as odd that you run the exact car at Bedford that I have but I was told by the Chairman to "not bother wasting my petrol with my expensive kit" :confused:

So what exactly is the ruling?, are Sharks banned or is it just me?

[hashiriya]

Scott,
Living not a trillion miles away from your venue I have kept my eye on these posts and had a look around your website.

Your facility looks great, loving the polished flooring! But I am also abit confused by the clubs stance on micro budget.

(Taken from the Beds club gallery) An ST, running pro shocks, an MRT ESC and with flipped rear arms (none standard) is no where near £150 unless im missing a trick (in which case, ill take 5 of them!)

Before I even consider taking a trip over to Beds for some pre National practise what is the stance from your club on micros racing?

Just curious...

Maybe I'm not the right person to try and answer this but from the discussions in the forum and at the club meets, the idea is to have 2 classes for Micro. One which is pretty open for anything to run with and then also have a more controlled class where the car spec would be close to that of the RTR kits to encourage some budget racing.

Smartalec then commented on how there is now standard for budget micro racing and so the class would probably not work which Scott must have seen as not contructive for what he was trying to achieve.

The bottom line is that any micro should be able to run, they might just keep some of the cheaper ones seperate to have some controlled budget racing using micros as a platform.

I'm sure there will be an official answer soon enough

[ek9russ]

The plan is to hopefully have two class’s for the Micro cars.

One for stock cars under £150.00 and the other an open class, for the likes of Chris car in the photo.

Chris was the first person to bring a micro car down to the club, and I think most peoples thoughts were this looks like fun! And certainly brought a smile to my face when he was running it with the touring cars :)

The club has been looking at introducing a low cost or stock class (wasn’t necessarily 1/18thoff road micro, had also looked at Tamiya minis, Carismas etc) to help bring new members and was decided that maybe it would be a good idea to combined the two. But also have the open class so we could cater for everyone else that runs the micros :thumbsup:

[Smartalec]

This week that chassis was running the SC18 phat bodies blackjack short course truck shell in domino pizza colours :woot:
Apparently they deliver, but only to the surrounding area :woot:

[Smartalec]

Smartalec then commented on how there is now standard for budget micro racing and so the class would probably not work which Scott must have seen as not contructive for what he was trying to achieve.

The bottom line is that any micro should be able to run, they might just keep some of the cheaper ones seperate to have some controlled budget racing using micros as a platform.

I'm sure there will be an official answer soon enough
Correct, I pointed out that there was no actual stock class for micro's and that almost everyone in the country used the same car, the LRP Shark. Scott didn't seem to like that at all and although two other people on the forum (both regular micro racers) agreed with me he decided that the best option was to delete all the posts, the reason given, "these guys have nothing sensible to say". To be honest, I thought I was offering a new club some advice :confused:. I also replied to a post about control tyres. A suggestion was made about the Schumacher Rally Block in yellow compound and I pointed out that the best option on slippy floor would be WHITE compound. Although they appear to wear out quicker than yellow, on slippy floor only they will last for ages as even when the tread disappears the compound will keep them gripping the floor. This was again aimed at helpiing people at their club and not trying to upset anyone.

As i've said earlier, I would actually like to run at the club as i've never run entirely on slippy floor with the micro and it sounds like fun. :)

[Smartalec]

The plan is to hopefully have two class’s for the Micro cars.

One for stock cars under £150.00 and the other an open class, for the likes of Chris car in the photo.

Chris was the first person to bring a micro car down to the club, and I think most peoples thoughts were this looks like fun! And certainly brought a smile to my face when he was running it with the touring cars :)

The club has been looking at introducing a low cost or stock class (wasn’t necessarily 1/18thoff road micro, had also looked at Tamiya minis, Carismas etc) to help bring new members and was decided that maybe it would be a good idea to combined the two. But also have the open class so we could cater for everyone else that runs the micros :thumbsup:This sounds more sensible but was NOT what I was told by Scott. He said that even the "pro" class would be limited to keep the costs low.

On the Beds forum I also put a post up and said that if anyone needed any help at all with information about micro's then PM me and i'll help out. If I don't know the answer to something, i'll certainly know someone who does :thumbsup:

[hashiriya]

I think the best way to sum up your situation with Scott Alec, is to say you had a "personality clash"

If Chris can run his micro, I don't see why you couldn't run yours. Whether you get on with Scott or not is a completely seperate issue. Although internet arguments are often the result of simple misunderstandings and I'm sure a visit to the club to talk to each other face to face will sort it.

[Smartalec]

I think the best way to sum up your situation with Scott Alec, is to say you had a "personality clash"

If Chris can run his micro, I don't see why you couldn't run yours. Whether you get on with Scott or not is a completely seperate issue. Although internet arguments are often the result of simple misunderstandings and I'm sure a visit to the club to talk to each other face to face will sort it.Sounds good to me :thumbsup:

[Lee]

Why?

I'm not interested in having people from all over the country visiting our club and racing. We chose a system that is best for our club and our local drivers.



I used to race at a club that had a similar attitude to this, guess what, they went tits up. You need to broaden your horizons, get some people in from further affield, if you don't you club could suffer the same fate! And with your attitude to things (see quote above) it probably will because one thing is for certain you have put me off coming to race there. :thumbdown:

[bedsrcmcc]

Scott,
Living not a trillion miles away from your venue I have kept my eye on these posts and had a look around your website.

Your facility looks great, loving the polished flooring! But I am also abit confused by the clubs stance on micro budget.

http://www.bedsrcmcc.co.uk/images/gallery/the-pits12.jpg

(Taken from the Beds club gallery) An ST, running pro shocks, an MRT ESC and with flipped rear arms (none standard) is no where near £150 unless im missing a trick (in which case, ill take 5 of them!)

Before I even consider taking a trip over to Beds for some pre National practise what is the stance from your club on micros racing?

Just curious...

Good evening c0sie

You wouldn't believe how mis-quoted I have been on this forum!!!

You are more than welcome to come along and race your 1:18 scale buggy/truck. This week is our Christmas Party and probably not the best opportunity to get the best out of your car as we are messing around with racing caravans and RC football. Take a look at our racing schedule online at our website for details of all the meetings in 2010 for our indoor venue:

http://www.bedsrcmcc.co.uk/racing-schedule2010.php

I really didn't want to go over old ground again, but trust me c0sie when I tell you that the £150 quotes have all been taken out of context (see PM). The club is running anything in the new year and the committee will in due course formulate some rules for this class running at our club indoors.

If you like, feel free to pop by this Friday if your free to introduce yourself and you'll see that we are all a friendly bunch despite what some may think who've never even been to our club :( ...

[bedsrcmcc]

This system by robitronic seems to have the same basic priciple as the iLaps system.

http://www.robitronic.com/lap-counter-en.html

Are any clubs using this system?

219 Euro's for the basic system - decoder, bridge sensors and 3 PT's

29 Euro's per additional PT.

All plus postage/delivery.

Seems very similar to the i laps system, and looks quite well packaged.


It's good to see more systems coming to market like this. It will be interesting to find out if I-Lap PT work with this system. This is what the local scene has been crying out for a long time. :thumbsup:

[bedsrcmcc]

We at the momment run the AMB 20 system at our club and there is know way we could afford the rc system i think its well over priced for what it is. So a bit more competition would do know harm at all and may bring the price down on all lap counting systems. i will keep my eye on this system to see how it goes all the best with your club.
Darran (Leverton Raceway)

Thanks for the support Darren. We start running I-Laps in the New Year - watch this space :thumbsup:

[DaveG28]

I remember rc caravan racing each Christmas at Frodsham growing up, awesome fun!

Good evening c0sie

You wouldn't believe how mis-quoted I have been on this forum!!!

You are more than welcome to come along and race your 1:18 scale buggy/truck. This week is our Christmas Party and probably not the best opportunity to get the best out of your car as we are messing around with racing caravans and RC football. Take a look at our racing schedule online at our website for details of all the meetings in 2010 for our indoor venue:

http://www.bedsrcmcc.co.uk/racing-schedule2010.php

I really didn't want to go over old ground again, but trust me c0sie when I tell you that the £150 quotes have all been taken out of context (see PM). The club is running anything in the new year and the committee will in due course formulate some rules for this class running at our club indoors.

If you like, feel free to pop by this Friday if your free to introduce yourself and you'll see that we are all a friendly bunch despite what some may think who've never even been to our club :( ...

[bedsrcmcc]

I remember rc caravan racing each Christmas at Frodsham growing up, awesome fun!

Yep, I think it will be a blast.

I remember some 30-odd years ago I raced a Christmas Tree against a Santa and his reindeer :cry: found it almost impossible to drive as we were laughing so much... :lol:

[Mad-Wolfie]

On a personal note, i think i'd be wary of the "line of sight" method of transponders unless used indoors on an on-road circuit where infra-red or UV light can't upset the system or there isn't any clods of mud to obscure the signals. Not saying the system wouldn't work outdoors etc, but i've used AMB for a long time & really can't say i've tried an alternative to the AMB type system so it's every bit a case of "better the devil you know" so i'd want to see it for myself rather than take the word of a few racers or people who use the system before handing over any of the club funds or any cash of my own - preferably on a very sunny day & also on a muddy off-road track. I'm not wanting to "big up" AMB here because i know it as a system has flaws of it's own mainly the cost - it's a lot of wad for what it does & the transponders aren't exactly known for reliability, but as i say, it's a system i know

Plus someone hinted at "national drivers" this may be a discussion for a different day as IMHO there should be an industry standard for the national series which seems to be AMB, but with AMBIT on the horizon (which i think will become the norm come the end of the next year) & more talk of people like Tag Heuer wanting to come into Modelsport as costs of technology fall on the more expensive 1:1 race timing systems etc it puts a lot of burden on the drivers who favour AMB, but then is it the discretion of the driver himself to decide or the clubs to manage the timing system or dare i say even the BRCA to step in & possibly come up with a universal standardised system along with IFMAR & ROAR etc - if only for use on tracks used or deemed suitable for nationals? There is also talk of handout transponders being phased out (there has been for years i know), already in the 12th national it is a rule you have to have your own PT - however i do believe there are a couple on standby that you can borrow should you have a breakdown or if you have not read that rule & turned up without to your 1st ever tournament, but this is a discretionary move on the part of the organisation team.

Yet does this REALLY just apply to national drivers.. I race at 3 local clubs, 2 currently use AMB, 1 still uses manual counting, but 2 clubs have said they considered a change next year to a newer system, so i'd hate to think handout transponders were stopped & i'd have to buy a collection of transponders to suit the individual clubs timing system i.e. have an AMB PT to race at club x & an ILap transponder to race at club Y & perhaps even a Tag-heuer (for arguments sake) transponder to race at club Z.. i'm only a humble club, 2nd tier & regional tournament racer, so haven't got sponsors to bail me out or help me out with finances to buy expensive personal transponders to suit all outcomes, so the whole thing may get costly or i may be restricted to racing at the club that uses a more "industry standard" timing system or still uses handout transponders.

[Battle_axe]

On a personal note, i think i'd be wary of the "line of sight" method of transponders unless used indoors on an on-road circuit where infra-red or UV light can't upset the system or there isn't any clods of mud to obscure the signals. Not saying the system wouldn't work outdoors etc, but i've used AMB for a long time & really can't say i've tried an alternative to the AMB type system so it's every bit a case of "better the devil you know" so i'd want to see it for myself rather than take the word of a few racers or people who use the system before handing over any of the club funds or any cash of my own - preferably on a very sunny day & also on a muddy off-road track. I'm not wanting to "big up" AMB here because i know it as a system has flaws of it's own mainly the cost - it's a lot of wad for what it does & the transponders aren't exactly known for reliability, but as i say, it's a system i know

Plus someone hinted at "national drivers" this may be a discussion for a different day as IMHO there should be an industry standard for the national series which seems to be AMB, but with AMBIT on the horizon (which i think will become the norm come the end of the next year) & more talk of people like Tag Heuer wanting to come into Modelsport as costs of technology fall on the more expensive 1:1 race timing systems etc it puts a lot of burden on the drivers who favour AMB, but then is it the discretion of the driver himself to decide or the clubs to manage the timing system or dare i say even the BRCA to step in & possibly come up with a universal standardised system along with IFMAR & ROAR etc - if only for use on tracks used or deemed suitable for nationals? There is also talk of handout transponders being phased out (there has been for years i know), already in the 12th national it is a rule you have to have your own PT - however i do believe there are a couple on standby that you can borrow should you have a breakdown or if you have not read that rule & turned up without to your 1st ever tournament, but this is a discretionary move on the part of the organisation team.

Yet does this REALLY just apply to national drivers.. I race at 3 local clubs, 2 currently use AMB, 1 still uses manual counting, but 2 clubs have said they considered a change next year to a newer system, so i'd hate to think handout transponders were stopped & i'd have to buy a collection of transponders to suit the individual clubs timing system i.e. have an AMB PT to race at club x & an ILap transponder to race at club Y & perhaps even a Tag-heuer (for arguments sake) transponder to race at club Z.. i'm only a humble club, 2nd tier & regional tournament racer, so haven't got sponsors to bail me out or help me out with finances to buy expensive personal transponders to suit all outcomes, so the whole thing may get costly or i may be restricted to racing at the club that uses a more "industry standard" timing system or still uses handout transponders.


the tag system works with amb transponders in karting as far as i know since it was asked if the track in aylebury could be used and they run tag timing but i was told amb transponders will work to i have no proof but this was said to me

[Lee]

You wouldn't believe how mis-quoted I have been on this forum!!!

.

I think their is a difference in mis-quoting someone and writing something completely different to what you mean.

It is a forum, people see words, they then put those words together and that equates to someone elses opinion. This is what we did with your

I'm not interested in having people from all over the country visiting our club and racing. We chose a system that is best for our club and our local drivers.

How else exactly are we supposed to take that without mis-quoting you :confused:

[seancormier]

As for the ones who post about using the I-LAP for outside racing.Here in the States almost all of the tracks that i know that use I-lap ,use it for outdoor DIRT off road racing.With NO problems at all.
I understand that people who already own AMB PT's can't understand why a track would go to the I-LAP.To them this is another expense for them to buy a I-LAP PT .This is not a big deal.Most track's that have I-LAP have atleast one set of track transponder.This means NO EXTRA expense for the racer who doesn't want to buy one ,but wants to race at the track once in a while.

STOP trying to come up with negative things on system you have no experience with,once you try you will change your mind about!!! because the AMB is not perfect!!:thumbdown:

sean

[bedsrcmcc]

I think their is a difference in mis-quoting someone and writing something completely different to what you mean.

It is a forum, people see words, they then put those words together and that equates to someone elses opinion. This is what we did with your

I'm not interested in having people from all over the country visiting our club and racing. We chose a system that is best for our club and our local drivers.

How else exactly are we supposed to take that without mis-quoting you :confused:

I agree that you have not mis-quoted me here, but it has been taken out of context. I stand by every word I said in that quote in terms of the context that I was saying it.

It was in relation to a discussion about why we chose I-Laps over AMB. Some have said that an AMB system would be the best choice for a club so that anyone visiting would be able to run their existing PT. Well, as I said in my post we made a decision based on sound financial sense for our club and it's members who race week in week out and are fully paid up members to our club. The decision was not taken to please those who currently use AMB systems who might want to come along to our club from time to time in the hope that they can run with the PT they already have.

I appreciate that some may find that offensive, well I'm sorry if you do :(. We welcome anyone to come along and we'll have spare I-Laps PT's which can be hired on a race night. Our club rules are clearly stated on our web site and as I have tried to express several times now, we are a new club with limited funds and we cater for those who've raced before but more so we cater for those new to the sport who might feel daunted at attending more well established larger clubs that might have large numbers of drivers who compete at a regional or national level. Our club offers a warm welcome to all.

Yes we do have some club members who do race at other clubs and enjoy travelling further afield and we never stop them from doing that and they also enjoy racing every Friday with us. These guys have AMB PT's and none of them have even questioned the fact that they will now have to purchase an I-Laps PT too to continue racing with us. It's all part of the hobby.

If I-Laps is good enough for 1000's of Americans then it's good enough for our club members and guests here in the UK. :thumbsup:

Again, as I've said before, for every 1 negative post about I-Laps, I probably have 2 positive enquiries - there are a lot of clubs watching this space, I-Laps is here to stay :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Col]

Not meant as a dig at anyone, but why are clubs charging for handout transpondrs when using the cheap system and people find this acecptable but there would be mass uproar and boycotting of any club that dared to charge users for handouts ith the AMB (expensive) system?

[Mad-Wolfie]

Not meant as a dig at anyone, but why are clubs charging for handout transpondrs when using the cheap system and people find this acecptable but there would be mass uproar and boycotting of any club that dared to charge users for handouts ith the AMB (expensive) system?

I can see your point, but i will say this.. i've seen people at club level leave a handout transponder in their car & (accidentally) take it home with them, so i can see why some clubs may say they require a deposit if using a club transponder or impose hefty annual membership fee's to boost the clubs coffers. Because even if they come back the next week & hand it back in, the transponder battery will be flat & unusable so causes a headache for the race controller & of course replacing stolen, broken or missing transponders is costly.. a few AMB20 transponders going missing may be causing enough of a financial loss to close the club.

Plus i suppose the cheaper the transponder the more tempting it is for people to steal it because they are of the mindset "if its only a cheap transponder, the club make enough money they can afford it, i've paid enough money to this club".. not saying it's right, but that is the mindset of some people.

[Chrislong]

STOP trying to come up with negative things on system you have no experience with,once you try you will change your mind about!!! because the AMB is not perfect!!:thumbdown:

sean

Whether AMB is perfect or not, the fact that many use PT's and clubs have pretty much all gone with one system makes life a whole bunch of convenient for everyone - which outweighs any imperfections it may have in my opinion.

Personally, if a club I raced at went to another system away from PT then id consider racing elsewhere for my own enjoyment (if another club locally were to race that same day). If a club also charged for loan of handouts, it'd be no consideration, id stay at home in protest given no other choices. But whats my opinion matter, its a local club for local people. :thumbdown:

[Lee]

If I-Laps is good enough for 1000's of Americans then it's good enough for our club members and guests here in the UK. :thumbsup:



You nearly had me swaying and then you came out with that corker :thumbsup:

The americans like cars that don't handle and make you sea sick, they can only get 200bhp out of 8 litre engines, they call crisps chips.

But i am sure you are right that they have chosen to go with the cutting edge of timing technology, afterall they are famous for their watches, or was that the swiss?

[Hog]

Plus i suppose the cheaper the transponder the more tempting it is for people to steal it because they are of the mindset "if its only a cheap transponder, the club make enough money they can afford it, i've paid enough money to this club".. not saying it's right, but that is the mindset of some people.

Is there no way of setting up a "hand-out transponder database" then? Clubs can register their transponders, and should one go walkabout, it can be declared as having being unlawfully taken. Then if it's used at another club, it would show up on the database where it's been used, and who used it.

I'm no expert in these matters, but if possible surely it would provide a decent enough deterrent?

[ek9russ]

As Scott has said the club was started with limited funds. It soon came apparent that manually counting laps was becoming a PITA.

We looked into what we could do…

The AMB system was out of the running due to costs, the I lap system was chosen due to it having a good reputation both in the USA and the small number of clubs that use it in the UK. The I lap system still had to be funded somehow. Everyone at the club agreed to add an extra couple of £’s to the cost of the transponder to help cover the cost of the main I lap system, as the club did not have the funds to purchase the system outright.

With the sale of the transponders to the members, funds that the club had and additional contributions by others we had enough money to purchase the I lap system.

I guess the whole thing comes down to money or the lack of it. For the club to have purchased the whole I lap system with funds coming in by weekly revenue it would have still taken a long time before we could afford it and to afford the AMB system even longer

[seancormier]

Chrislong
You have to keep in mind that the AMB/MYLAPS system has had atleast 20+ jump start on selling its lap counters.Up until a few years ago there was no good alternative to the AMB.AMB put most of those companies out of business ,by claiming patent infringment.Which is BS because patents only last for so long !!!! So here comes a company I-lap who develpoed a great system for counting.It keeps cost down ,works the way it is supposed,easy to use and is very accurate.What else do you need.
What do think the comments would be if it was the reverse I-LAP came first then AMB?It just comes down to the AMB has been around longer and at this point has more user's,for now!!with how many I-LAP system being sold around the world it want take long until when you ask about lap counters ,both AMB and I-LAP will be mentioned in the same sentance.
As for charging a fee for use of a track PT ,over her there are some track charging mostly AMB track's because they are using regular AMB personal transponders(the red plug in's) for there handouts.

Lee
If you don't like the statemnt about "its good for Americans" just keep in mind that the I-LAP system is sold all over the world ,so it must be good for them too.
As for your car reference about 200hp out of 8,you are so WRONG .200 hp is nothing getting that out of 4 lit. with out even trying.Not that this matters to me ,but it amazes me how anti-american people can get in a conversation over hobbies.

Sean

[Lee]

Chrislong
You have to keep in mind that the AMB/MYLAPS system has had atleast 20+ jump start on selling its lap counters.Up until a few years ago there was no good alternative to the AMB.AMB put most of those companies out of business ,by claiming patent infringment.Which is BS because patents only last for so long !!!! So here comes a company I-lap who develpoed a great system for counting.It keeps cost down ,works the way it is supposed,easy to use and is very accurate.What else do you need.
What do think the comments would be if it was the reverse I-LAP came first then AMB?It just comes down to the AMB has been around longer and at this point has more user's,for now!!with how many I-LAP system being sold around the world it want take long until when you ask about lap counters ,both AMB and I-LAP will be mentioned in the same sentance.
As for charging a fee for use of a track PT ,over her there are some track charging mostly AMB track's because they are using regular AMB personal transponders(the red plug in's) for there handouts.

Lee
If you don't like the statemnt about "its good for Americans" just keep in mind that the I-LAP system is sold all over the world ,so it must be good for them too.
As for your car reference about 200hp out of 8,you are so WRONG .200 hp is nothing getting that out of 4 lit. with out even trying.Not that this matters to me ,but it amazes me how anti-american people can get in a conversation over hobbies.

Sean

My point was that the American Engineering isn't up to the standard of other parts of the world, i know they can get more power, but the fact is, they don't, they seem to choose to settle for average when they should be setting the world alight, afterall they are world leaders aren't they? :thumbdown:

[seancormier]

Lee

Not true!! but that's OK. We just have too many things going on like most countries.Just can't concentrate on one thing too make our name on:yawn: .Let's get back to talking about RC and lap counters.:thumbsup:


Sean

[Darrane]

I run a club in Lincolnshire quite big running on road and off road outdoors and during the winter months indoors at the local hall built over 15 years.
The one thing to remember is you will never please everyone so do not even try but you must be open to more racers do not close your doors to anyone,as racers are getting more scarce with many other hobbies competing for the same people.
I would say to Scott good luck to your club but the one thing you need is racers to increase your bank balance you will get people you do not like or just pick fault and any and everything you do even i its brillant but you get that in all walks of life. I do applaund trying something diffrent and i really hope it works for you i must say if your outdoor track is brillant i think they will come and forget about the timimng equipment until they do not win and need an excuse:woot::woot:.Just one word of advice when club funds allow you should by some more handout transponders so this can be given out instead of loaned because thats basically how its done, we at the momment run the old amb20 so no PTs can run anyway but we do have 20 hand out transponders some people moan but we would rather spend the money on upgrding the track and facilites. We must all pull in the same direction other wise our hobbie will die we allready have declining numbers as to say 10 years ago i wish you well with your club and i may come an have race during the summer.

all the best Darran (Leverton Raceway)

[Col]

I think my (and Chris's) (and maybe Lee's) point has been missed a little. Wether we own AMB PT's or not, we race at regular clubs and have never paid for the use of a transponder. All clubs have started at the bottom (again no offence) like Scotts club and have worked round to buying AMB decoders without charging for handouts. I do not recieve a discount for usng my AMB PT, nor would I expect to. If my club started charging for the "loan" of it's expensive AMB handouts I would simply find another club.

[Chrislong]

I think my (and Chris's) (and maybe Lee's) point has been missed a little. Wether we own AMB PT's or not, we race at regular clubs and have never paid for the use of a transponder. All clubs have started at the bottom (again no offence) like Scotts club and have worked round to buying AMB decoders without charging for handouts. I do not recieve a discount for usng my AMB PT, nor would I expect to. If my club started charging for the "loan" of it's expensive AMB handouts I would simply find another club.

Yeh thats it, you've hit your head on the nail!

If the handouts were to be free, then fantastic - but then id still (personally) prefer to be able to use my AMB PT, as I bought it for convenience over going getting handouts before each run. BUT if I-Lap PT's are of a reasonable price, and there system prooves to work then id be keen to get an I-Lap PT and encourage other clubs to follow. As lets face it, AMB equipment isn't priced in proportion to what the item is.

Bedford are being brave in trying the equipment in a country dominated by AMB equipment, it will either be a raving success (except for charging for the handouts :thumbdown:) or a catastrophic failure (which I am presuming could end the club :thumbdown:). Good luck.

Also, clubs need races from any location, whether local or not. No racers = no club, and there'll only be a handful of locals - but get travellers coming and you've got a big event! So whatever opinions you have of people travelling to your club (non-locals), a forum isn't the place to air them as it won't just put off any non-locals, it may also put off any possible new locals using the search function and stumbling accross negative comments...... so, BE NICE, its important when your words represent a club, brand or company.

[bedsrcmcc]

Yes we may be brave, but then I've never been one for following the herds :woot:

However, I've been getting PM's and emails directly via our web site from lots of other clubs up and down the UK who are supporting us in our choice and looking forward to the feedback we give about the I-Laps system.

As a previous poster has said, AMB has had a 20 year head start, but I can see I-Laps becoming a firm favourite with many local clubs once they see the cost of running it and our club will certainly look forward in the years ahead to welcoming some of these clubs to meet up and race together.

As to the point about charging a small fee (in the grand scheme of RC racing £2 is a very small fee in my view) I have children who attend various clubs during the week and weekend and often if they do not have certain equipment then they can 'hire' said equipment until such a point that they can (or should I say we as parents) purchase our own equipment for the clubs.

You can't even buy a round of drinks for £2 these days so it's not a lot to ask for. As for other clubs who decide not to charge for loaning out AMB PT's - please refer to my first sentence in this reply :thumbsup:

[Chrislong]

Then just up the booking in fee and disguise it that way, don't mention any other fee, an increase in this way is easier to swallow for the racer. Just an idea. I could be wrong.

[Rocking Donkey]

I think having a "hire" charge for transponders is ok. I race occasionally at the Aylesbury club. They use AMBrc and encourage every member to buy their own. They charge to borrow a PT for racing. The hire charge will very slowly pay for the cost of buying the transponder in the first place. The lifetime for a club PT will always be lower than for one that is owned by a racer due to it constantly being plugged and unplugged.

I think charging is fair enough, and if there is no charge to "Hire" a transponder then there is no incentive to buy your own. I have just ordered one of the new PT's as the price is now right, but with the old prices it would have taken a lot of £1 per night hire charge for it to be worth me buying my own!

I have also tried using optical PT's racing at the Newbury track. This never missed a lap for me, the only problem I had was trying to get line-of-sight through a window in my XX4. Sussed it in the end though.

Ben

[bedsrcmcc]

I have also tried using optical PT's racing at the Newbury track. This never missed a lap for me, the only problem I had was trying to get line-of-sight through a window in my XX4. Sussed it in the end though.

Ben

Was it the I-Laps system or something similar?

How high were the sensors positioned in relation to the track? The guys from I-Laps say the sensors should be approx 20-24in's above the race track for them to work properly.

Have to admit that all the testing I've done so far at home shows that there is no problem in the sensors picking up the PT under my bodyshell, even when I hid the PT under the back of the car where it's painted royal blue. It picked it up everytime. Of course we shall suggest to all racers to have it visible through the windscreen which should be no problem for everyone.

[Rocking Donkey]

I believe it was I-laps, but it might be worth getting in touch with someone from Newbury. I think the bridge holding the sensors was 24-inches high. They run on an indoor track with carpet, jumps and some hardboard sections. The loop was placed at the start of the main straight following a slow technical section. I guess this stopped any problems with out of control buggies hitting the loop. You might be able to see part of their setup on one of the youtube videos of the club, try searching for newburyrc and MKGP. If you are looking for ideas for a buggy track they have had the best tracks I have ever raced on.

Ben

[Mad-Wolfie]

before we get bogged down, a few people have mentioned cost as the deciding factor between Ilap & AMB.. however i'd be curious to know what software they are running the system on, considering RC-Timing is over £300 for the full version & other software is pretty much the same sort of cost. I know Laps-Free is well, erm... free, but i am amazed at these clubs who moan & bicker about the cost of the timing hardware then think nothing of spending hundreds on software & a laptop/PC to run it! I know Ilaps comes with Laps-Free, but i dare bet some clubs have upgraded to more "prefessional" software"

I will admit i'm impressed with laps Free, but can't help thinking because it's free is it really that good, because i would imagine the paid versions are a lot more thought out. But in saying that, a high price on things these days doesn't exactly determine better quality, it may just mean the people who create it are greedy.

[seancormier]

Mad-Wolfie

We run LAPS-FREE on our I-LAP.it works just fine for our use.Many tracks over here that buy there program use ALYCAT it is a full version program,it cost less than Jlap and RC scoring pro and it does the same thing as those. Those program are used alot still.Alycat is being used on both AMB and I-LAP tracks.I believe it cost a little under $300 usd.No matter what system you get ,you need to get software.I think most tracks use inexpensive computer's and as for the software they choose what they can afford.Just like making the decision between I-LAP
and AMB.
Buying lap counting program is just part of the whole process .At least you have a free program option,unlike the lap counters.
Laps-free will work for 95% of the tracks out there,the other 5% just think they need the more expensive programs(jlap and RC scoring pro)!

here is a list in order by popularity in the U.S--PAID programs
1 - RC SCORING PRO
2- ALYCAT
3- JLAP
Laps-free would be some where in the middle.

sean

[bedsrcmcc]

before we get bogged down, a few people have mentioned cost as the deciding factor between Ilap & AMB.. however i'd be curious to know what software they are running the system on, considering RC-Timing is over £300 for the full version & other software is pretty much the same sort of cost. I know Laps-Free is well, erm... free, but i am amazed at these clubs who moan & bicker about the cost of the timing hardware then think nothing of spending hundreds on software & a laptop/PC to run it! I know Ilaps comes with Laps-Free, but i dare bet some clubs have upgraded to more "prefessional" software"

I will admit i'm impressed with laps Free, but can't help thinking because it's free is it really that good, because i would imagine the paid versions are a lot more thought out. But in saying that, a high price on things these days doesn't exactly determine better quality, it may just mean the people who create it are greedy.

Luckily for us, all the hardware and software has been kindly donated to the club so we only had the worry of buying a lap counting/PT system :thumbsup:

[AlisdairO]

before we get bogged down, a few people have mentioned cost as the deciding factor between Ilap & AMB.. however i'd be curious to know what software they are running the system on, considering RC-Timing is over £300 for the full version & other software is pretty much the same sort of cost. I know Laps-Free is well, erm... free, but i am amazed at these clubs who moan & bicker about the cost of the timing hardware then think nothing of spending hundreds on software & a laptop/PC to run it! I know Ilaps comes with Laps-Free, but i dare bet some clubs have upgraded to more "prefessional" software"

I will admit i'm impressed with laps Free, but can't help thinking because it's free is it really that good, because i would imagine the paid versions are a lot more thought out. But in saying that, a high price on things these days doesn't exactly determine better quality, it may just mean the people who create it are greedy.

Regardless of the fact that lapsfree is perfectly usable, there's the fact that even if you do buy software, £300 is still only a small percentage of the cost of an AMB timing system.