ZX5 Conversion kit

[OldTimer]

This looks a little interesting - http://www.km-rc.com/oscommerce/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=79&osCsid=2137a6784ffe223c459d34c67409eab5

[jimmy]

WOW! how bj4worlds is that ! looks good.

[AndyG]

can't believe they've used red.

what a faux pas. :D

[jimmy]

AH !! but they do it in GM as well as red... you know, that well known colour!

I mailed them about the conversion to get more details, goodness knows if they will reply, I often come across as a bit, uhmmmm, loopy! :D

[nick oliver]

It looks pettry good but i wonder if it is or not?

[Icey101]

:mad: I can't get the site to load

[jimmy]

enough people hot link my photos, so here I am returning the favour!


http://www.km-rc.com/oscommerce/catalog/images/KML-100-1.JPG
http://www.km-rc.com/oscommerce/catalog/images/KML-100-2.JPG
http://www.km-rc.com/oscommerce/catalog/images/KML-100-3.JPG
http://www.km-rc.com/oscommerce/catalog/images/KML-100-4.JPG

[OldTimer]

I like it, but i think i would of been a bit more radical with the design :) do you think the front prop shaft is connected with a UJ into the front gear box ?.

If it is you could swap around the prop shaft UJ's then have the cells in a Slim4 configuration ;)

[BluesFan]

First of all, who is this company and where are they located? Just curious in case I get an itch to try out this configuration. Secondly, I can't really tell from the pictures, so I'll ask here if people can see if the front drive shaft connects into the front diff in the same way it connects now. If I can't use my center one-way with two diffs then I wouldn't consider it. Lastly, can someone here explain the advantages of having a center-mounted motor in the same way that the BJ4 WE is configured? What is gained? What is lost? It seems to me the weight is still pretty much equally sorted out about the chassis. I wouldn't think it'd be a rear traction issue considering you either have 6 cells near the rear or 3 cells and a motor. Roughly same amount of weight. Either way, it sure does look nice.

[darners]

Mid April release date

[nick oliver]

Sweet!! I am really thinking about getting one of these, But would prefer to see one go round or hear someones veiws on it first really lol

[niggs98]

has anyone got one yet

[darners]

supposed to be despatched next week, So I have been told

[nick oliver]

They look really good.. But i want to see one go before i would get one another thing is what spares do you use?? j concepts or wait 2 weeks for some of them?? but then you would have j concepts blue with there red??:( A blue and red car does nout for me lol:rolleyes: :D :p

[darners]

Kit arrived this morning :D, hopefully build it tonight and post pics later, looks good quality though, instructions say that the original bodyshell has got to be cut for the new motor position :(

[darners]

started building tonight got the main chassis done, quality of the parts is excellent and all holes line up and everything fits together perfectly, the body shell sits a litter higher at the front than with the original chassis but only about 3mm. A hole will have to be cut in the shell (manual says about 56mm x 16mm) to stop it touching the motor, maybe a good thing, because with the added heat sink, it should keep things pretty cool in there :) ,access to the motor will be a little tricky but no more than the BJ4 worlds, anyway heres some pics :

sorry about the quality, taken with a camera phone !!!!

[niggs98]

looking good craig :)

[DCM]

at least not to much of the barbed wire design has to be removed!!! From your shell I mean.

[b4united]

Hi have you been on the track with it?, and have you got some photos of the bodyshell, with the holes in it?

[TAKCHEE]

my kmc lazer

[AndyG]

Cut a hole in the bodyshell? Oh man, that's lame.

Who's got a vacuformer handy then?

[niggs98]

i happen to know of someone who is working on a shell to fit as we speak so will post details as soon as i get them including a pic

[jimmy]

Let me know about that when you have some info also mate, as I might be reviewing the conversion soon.

[niggs98]

shall do jim its one of our local model shops who has just got a vac forming machine to play with it gets wired in this week and the mold is already made so i will post pics n stuff to ya to get them online

[Squintz Palladoris]

Let me know about that when you have some info also mate, as I might be reviewing the conversion soon.

That would be awesome if you did Jimmy. I almost pulled the trigger on one of these the other day, but decided to wait and see what others said about it first:)

Brad

[Squintz Palladoris]

BTW for the yanks, SpeedTech RC has these things in stock in blue right now

http://www.speedtechrc.com/store/ebproductdetail.asp?catmainid=482&id=6029

Brad

[jimmy]

I am reviewing the conversion for Speedtech RC now, well, when a couple of parts arrive that I broke (hubs) oops.

Any idea when shells might be around niggs ? I cant use my old shell for the conversion (its "knackered" ) I have a brand new one - but it'd be a shame to cut up a brand new shell and make it look a bit poor - so this shell would be ideal to use in the review.

[Crim3Wav3]

Hi Guys,

I bought the KMC conversion and here's my first impressions before the build...

1.) You will need to buy an extra stock layshaft kit that comes with the extra outdrive cup (the same one thats used for the slipper assembly drive cup).

2.) The conversion is NOT compatible with the shaft one-way bearing assebly. This kit is solid shaft only. Unfortunately, they don't tell you that or show this part of the car in any way.

3.) The countersunk holes on the bottom of the chassis were not countersunk deep enough, and the head sticks out by a .25mm or so.

4.) The center top plate (the aluminum bulkhead cap) is a VERY tight fit...some might say a little too aggresive with the annodizing....

5.) They don't include the correct size screws for the battery straps...they SAY it is supposed to be an 8mm long m3 cap, but they include only the 16mm long caps and some 12mm long philips caps....no 8mm's.

6.) The graphite is very nice though..

7.) The anodizing is spot on Kyosho blue!

8.) The CVD's only have one set of pin holes (unlike, say, a Mugen MBX5 cvd's where they have another set of holes once the originals get worn)...i guess you can drill your own set but...

9.) Still pissed about the shaft one-way thing...

Anyway, let hope the rest of the build goes smoothly...i will update with any additional findings...

[Squintz Palladoris]

Thanks CrimeWave, Keep us updated:)

Brad

[bert digler]

cant you use the one diff assembly

[Crim3Wav3]

I could, but Ive been down that road before....and it was not a pretty road!

I had terrible luck without the front diff installed. On power steering was a NIGHTMARE! I dont race on open grass fields...i race on a tight, indoor, large jump track.

But, I guess i will have to try now, or switch to the solid shaft and front diff (which shouldnt be too bad)...

[Crim3Wav3]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/mechEngineer/IMG_20751.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/mechEngineer/IMG_20761.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/mechEngineer/IMG_20801.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/mechEngineer/IMG_20771.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/mechEngineer/IMG_20781.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/mechEngineer/IMG_20811.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/mechEngineer/IMG_20821.jpg

Car is SUPER stiff and should do real well on hard-packed tracks....if you run in the bumpy stuff, i would stickwith the stock chassis, which has some flex.

Also note the front aluminum hubs (Kenon Hobbies) and the rear pivot blocks, also Kenon.

Gonna test this thing soon, so stay tuned!

[jimmy]

Good stuff.. Im still building mine, looks good so far tho. The carbon is all very nice.

[Crim3Wav3]

also, news from a reliable source says that KMC are working on the center dogbone to use the center one-way...praise!

[Squintz Palladoris]

Looks great Man. Where are you located? You in the states?

Brad

[TAKCHEE]

also, news from a reliable source says that KMC are working on the center dogbone to use the center one-way...praise!
I saw that they will make 1 dog bone and cvd can use the center one-way!!!!

[Crim3Wav3]

yep, im in the U.S.

Track i race on is www.rcexcitement.com and www.glowplug.com....

RCE is indoor, where this car spends most of its time...still trying to acquire some sort of protection for the chassis underside...may have to go to the BJ4WE stuff...

[jimmy]

How are you mounting the rear of the shell on the converted car ? I managed to find a way to mount the front body mounts without the suggested 20mm screws and nuts (because I didnt have any) but no idea about the rear..

I do have a body post on from the ZX5 kit which wasnt used on the ZX5 at all, but it needed drilling to fit- not ideal for everyone..
since im doing a review on the conversion I'd just like to know the best / easiest way for people to mount the shells / cut them out etc..

So, anyone have any suggestions ?

[niggs98]

How are you mounting the rear of the shell on the converted car ? I managed to find a way to mount the front body mounts without the suggested 20mm screws and nuts (because I didnt have any) but no idea about the rear..

I do have a body post on from the ZX5 kit which wasnt used on the ZX5 at all, but it needed drilling to fit- not ideal for everyone..
since im doing a review on the conversion I'd just like to know the best / easiest way for people to mount the shells / cut them out etc..

So, anyone have any suggestions ?

if you look at the pics of the one from southport jim im sure he uses the standard lazer battery posts with a small spacer to get the required height

[jimmy]

Cheers mate

did those extra ones come in the kit ? should i have a look on the discarded parts trees on my floor ? :rolleyes:

[Crim3Wav3]

Hey Jimmy,

I used the kit battery post screwed in to the rear top deck as shown in the instructions from KMC. Then i drilled out one of the extra wing-stay washers (the little black washers) and put that down the post a little ways....i will be needing a new body from the holes I put into my old one.....

[jimmy]

Thats how Ive got my old shell mounted at the moment, but with a new hole and body pin thru to support the shell.

[niggs98]

Cheers mate

did those extra ones come in the kit ? should i have a look on the discarded parts trees on my floor ? :rolleyes:

no they come in the bumper kit. i have a spare pair i can give ya at the national this weekend if ya need some

[jimmy]

It does look to hold the shell on well, I'll just mention it I think in mi review (with those photos from southport) and stick to what I have, but thanks anyway mate.

[boomerang]

Howdy

i bought that kmc kit, and drove it. after about 30 driven pacs the carbon chassis was so weak, like you were holding an old sprint 2 hpi touring car with gfk chassis in your hands. i dont drive it anymore, cause it handels awful like this.

next thing, do you guys also feel, that the kmc kit is harder to drive when you slide with the rear end? but it has a bit more strait on traction, your opinions?

greetings from switzerland

Maurice

[Crim3Wav3]

I do not see this happening to the chassis itself....after looking at the car for awhile and trying to decipher how this could happen, i come to realize one huge problem with the design.

Each top plate screws to the center aluminum bulkhead and spans to the rear bulkhead and front bulkhead where two screws are also used....included in the conversion kit are two aluminum spacers that raise the mounting position up to that of the center slipper bulkhead. The rear and front screws, however, are screwing into the plastic camber plate that sits on the diff halves. While this is the stock location of the standard top plate mounting scews one significant difference is present. On the stock top plate, the design is such that it notches into the mounting location whereas the KMC top plate creates a 5mm moment arm centered at the thin section of the camber plate mounting location.....

This all means that as you drive the car, the area where the rear and front top plate mounting screws thread into the camber plate will become weak as the car flexes (and cant flex the chassis before those areas give-way)....

This being said, I believe that I will be designing and machining the correct spacer for this design...one which will notch into the rear and front top diff halves.....

If you look at the KMC chassis in the original pics, you can see that they were running the car with an aluminum front tower mount and this camber brace all machined into one unit.....this would definitely make a difference in the amount of stress this moment arm produces.

food for thought....and I dont think your chassis is failing....check this area of the car and let us know if I am onto something here.

I do have the chassis by the way and have held onto it and tried to bend it while all put together....the top plate diff mounting screws flex WAY before the lower chassis plate.

[boomerang]

Howdy

yes you are absolutly right, when the kit is new everythings has the flex on those points you described.
i think you are right too, when you said that there are missing notches on the kmc brace witch makes the level for the topdecks on the gearbox, that was my first opinion too. i think other braces would help definitliy.

when i started to drive the car with the kmc kit, it was enough stiff, even for an kardan driven car ( i think everbody who has driven an tc3/tc4 knows what i mean, when you look at the poor performance of other kardan cars like yoks and pro4)

but after driving you will discover that the car will start to flex more and more. when i take only the single top deck in my hands, i can flex that thing like rubber, i does not feel like you are flexing carbon. you can flex that thing about 45 degrees without breaking...

not such a big amount of flex i discoverd on the lower deck on the battery location, you can flex it without problems about 15 degrees

i know this sounds crazy. i was thinking i am nuts or something like that, but knowing that i was an race engineer in an car hillclimbing team for a few years working with lots of carbon i would say this explains why this kit has such a good price.

the problem could be solved with good quality carbon...and with your modifications the car would be ultra stiff.

anyway, but do you think too, that the higher center of gravitiy in the front of the car makes the cornering speed lower? i felt like that.

greetings from switzerland

Maurice

[Crim3Wav3]

I have yet to put more than 10 packs on the car, and so far everything flexes the same as it was when it was installed.

I went to the website where KMC gets their carbon from (KCI), and they have a couple different grades. Obviously, the quasi-isotropic sheets would be the best grade, however, KMC does not specify which the car is made from...this website does also offer lower grade carbon that is in the traditional 90, 90, 90 degree pattern (verses quasiisotropic, which is 90, 45, 0, 90, 45, 0 degree lay)

I would suspect that, based upon what you are describing, the laminated layers are separating at each layer....which seems almost impossible without noticable damage to the edges of the plate....

Anyway, i will be on SolidWorks tonight to design the part (upper deck bulkhead spacer) and will be fabricating it this week at work.

Have you contacted KMC yet Boomerang? Im sure they would love to see what is happeing with their chassis...and I would be pissed if it happened to mine....I would more or less demand a new one if no foul play is obvious...

Boomerang, did you notice any diff gear damage as an issue with the kit? It seems with the flexing at the diff cases that the diff gear would get chewed quickly....

[boomerang]

evening...

i took one of my upperdecks an used a sandpaper to determine if its 90-90 or quasi isotropic...i would say its 90-90. i just remeberd that when i was building my 4wd prototype a few months ago, i had 90-90 carbon too. and after loads of packs it was the same problem, it was soft like GFK. and i m sure that this was 90-90 because they only sell that one. and you can t see any damage with the human eye, i mean i cant see any damage...

i do not have contacted kmc, because if i will ride that layout again, i will produce some chassis with the carbon from www.swiss-composite.ch (http://www.swiss-composite.ch) , they have quasi isotropic one, which i already used in an touring car prototype. there it works fine.

but thats the thing, i have two cars, with specific setups to both layouts, same tires same engine etc. and the car with the original layout is faster most of the time. its got usually more grip. but it has less strait on traction. when you are faster in the corner especially out of it, you don t need so much rear traction, maybe thats why its faster?
to be sure about the test, i gave both cars to a friend of mine without telling him wich car it is.

about the diff gear damage, yes the kmc car needs more diffs. definitly, i cant say how much more but it is more.
your modification could help with that. at the momemt im trying to do the brace around the diff cage with carbon, if it helps, i will tell you.

by the way, the last testride with the kmc was on this track in germany:

www.mac-inzell.de (http://www.mac-inzell.de)

probably it was to hard for the kmc kit. not to say that the original was faster on this track than the worn out kmc.
there was only one track i know where the kmc was faster: in koppl, a very slippery track with slow lots of 180 turns.

just saw your braces for the damper stay. good thing, how can i get them to switzerland?

greetings from at the moment rainy switzerland

Maurice

[jarkkom]

Thanks for great information Maurice. The BJ4WE layout is very tempting tho'. Kyosho even had one or more prototypes with similar layout so there must be a reason why the actual kit is like it is.

[kentech]

Here's a Japanese body made for the conversion.

More here: http://www.team-azarashi.com

http://www.team-azarashi.com/DSCF0217.JPG

[notlawnomis]

Like the shell, not sure on the wing though!!

[paulc]

same he like the shell shame about the wing though i suppose it's different !!

[omen1975]

Hi guys,

Im an off-road ZX-5 racer here in Australia, I use and test KM/RC products and have yet to have any problems with what yas have mentioned, I will keep a close eye out on them problems and let yas know if I come across them.

I notice that someone has made a body to fit the chassis, I personally use the standard body with a BJ4 undertray and find the undertray lifts the body 5-8mm and it clears the motor ok, also I found the undertray handy when it comes to holding the body in the car with a small strip of velcro down the sides of body and tray, its a quick and simple way of removing the body. I also have extended my brushless novak ESC switch and mounted it on the inside on the back of my carbon works shock tower hole, it allows easy switching on and off of the car with out removing the body, also I placed the ESC fan next to the ESC. (will post more pics if anyone is interested).

Anyway keep up the good information and if you need any info or have any questions to do with any ZX-5 KM/RC products let me know as I have a close relationship with them.

P.S. they have a new Shock tower mount out now that might fix a problems you mentioned with flexing.

Take it easy guys and good luck racing

Damien

[Squintz Palladoris]

Hey Damien, Who's shock towers are those?

Thanks,
Brad

[omen1975]

G'day Brad, They are Carbon works shock towers, try (A Main Hobbies) for them, hope this helps.

Damien