Nationals preferential entries?

[jimmy]

The UK National series is possibly the worlds highest quality series for 10th off road buggies - fantastic organisation and great quality drivers like Cragg, Bradby, Ellis, Tricky, John Price - the list goes on ;).

Since I've been doing Nationals (2003 I think I did my first) the series has definitely grown quite a lot - to the point that I've only managed to get straight into 2 races (both 4WD), and my wife has only managed to get into one of six events she applied for.
I think for this weekends National I was reserve 25 or so, meaning at least 155 people had applied to race. Great success.

Being the premiere series, and indeed only series which tours the UKs best tracks, there is a great deal of talent and preference is given to the best driver grades - a rule which makes some allowance to keep the series at the top.


Swiftly on to my point - there is a long reserve list at Nationals already, mostly lower drivers who were not good enough to get straight in. Almost everyone has the opportunity to qualify well in regional races and get a good driver grade - which would get them into Nationals.
If anyone remembers the 2005 National at Bury Metro, we had a couple of top International drivers turn up and race, Steenari and Amezcua - these guys simply wouldn't stand a chance of ever racing over here again now.
Similarly, top drivers like Andy Moore and Craig Drescher are capable of A final at the World Championships but can't even get into the National series (Because their off road driver grades are not high enough).

Having top drivers like Moore and Drescher, but also visiting International drivers, would be a big boost in my opinion to the quality and profile of the series. At the moment it won't happen, and the system that is currently in place works well to make it a fair system for gaining National places - but I personally think there could / should be a way for some (possibly a small number, pre-defined) of top drivers that normally wouldn't be able to get in, to some how jump the queue.

Fair enough - I have failed to get an entry to most Nationals this year, and it's been a bit crap to be honest. So I know how it feels. And there are certainly drivers reading this that would get pushed out of the series if a handful of queue-jumpers were allowed places - But I still like the idea and think it would add to the event.



So -what do people think? would it even be possible or fair? Could 5 (lets say) places be 'put aside' for possible top drivers, and who'd decide who qualifies for those places? Does a world champion touring car driver qualify, does a world Champion in Mardaves qualify?:eh?:
And being a points series - do we really want 'guest' drivers throwing spanners in the works? :)


Discuss:

[telboy]

I think it is a good idea and a bad idea. it would be nice to see the like of some of the worlds top drivers race, but it would also stop people that have race hard to get there, from getting an entry.

Maybe an 'exhibition' heat or something like that would be better, and make it for a certain round of the series so that people know when it is going to be.:)

But it would be nice to see them race.

Maybe a yearly one off invitaional organised by the brca.?

[jimmy]

Currently there isn't one BIG race for the top drivers - only the F2 and lower drivers. The best drivers have to make do with the euros or some American races (cactus) or the bi-annual Worlds.
It would be cool to have a 2 day BRCA Invitational, with the top National and International drivers invited - then open entry for the rest of the places.
It would work better than allowing the drivers into the National series - but as that's the only race(s) currently available, that's what I focused on.

[GRIFF55]

I rather the sound of that idea, a big one off seasonal invitational would also get the non entered drivers as spectators. Big marque bar and that would be a cracking weekend!!

[Lee Martin]

im looking to do something like this at CML Raceway!

[Chris Doughty]

I think the term you are looking for Jimmy is 'wildcard' entrys.

I like the idea. 5 reserved places for wildcard drivers, if no wildcards want in the reserve drivers are called up a week or so in advance.

the 'limit' should be set at 125 (for 2WD) for entry to the event with 5 reserved for wildcard or reserve (as long as wildcard entrys were closed and reserves given plenty of notice)

this happens quite a lot in other forms of motorsport, things like superbikes, supermoto etc... 'local' hero's get entry to the 'world' event at their track etc... they normally do quite well :D

[loose]

Yeah a one internationsl/invitational is a good idea, but I dont think queue jumping in a National is fair. I'm new to things but the impression I get is there aren't that many races annually, and a lot of people really look forward to an opportunity to race. Take their chance away to allow a few top guys a place and your making your hobby/sport elitist. These guys get plenty of racing in all over the world, whereas Joe Bloggs works his nuts off all year and maybe gets the chance to race at a decent level only 4 or 5 times.

I can see your point, its good to see high profile racers, I just think you'd have to be careful not to be unfair or alienate the real people that keep the scene going.

Power to the common man yeah. Right on baby! :cool:

[Oscar]

The UK National series is possibly the worlds highest quality series for 10th off road buggies - fantastic organisation and great quality drivers like Cragg, Bradby, Ellis, Tricky, John Price - the list goes on ;).
Discuss:

:o:o:o You been at the Vodka again Jimmy? :D

[jimmy]

Yes, for sure john! :D:D
Wildcard! that's the word I was looking for, hehe.

[loose]

this happens quite a lot in other forms of motorsport, things like superbikes, supermoto etc... 'local' hero's get entry to the 'world' event at their track etc... they normally do quite well :D

Yeah its a great idea when its a local hero getting a wildcard pop at the big boys, not so hot when the local are getting pushed out of their event to give the wildcard to some hero just passing through. ;)

[TRF_Tastic]

Why not give the top drivers 5 wildcard places, but on the proviso that the wildcards do not score points for the series.

[Chris Doughty]

it would not work you would have to remove them from the finals sorting.

if a wildcard made the A but was removed from the points, the guy who is BQ has no shot of 'improving' on his points because he can't race in the A (where he would have been without the wildcard in there)

[jimmy]

Or just allow them to score points

[ashleyb4]

Also as there would be a few extra people the people racing the bottom five people would be on the researve list making the researve list longer and these people dont really support british racing by racing at regionals or going to all the naionals. So it would stop drivers who do want to race at all of them doing so.

Hope that made sence lol im tired.

A

[ashleyb4]

And jimmy who is that on the bike in your avanter???

A

[jimmy]

Thats me on my bike, lol.
Supporting british racing means turning up, and there are people who could do a lot for the sport if they were allowed to compete. It could create interest and make the sport grow even more. The fact that lower drivers (like me and you ash) would find it even harder to get in is a shame, but I'd rather race with a bunch of top drivers than 130 jimmys - that would be a bit pants to watch.. :D

[ashleyb4]

Oh what bike have you got???

yea another possablitly is to add another heat because then it will allow the top people to race and people like me and you jimmy.

A:D

[jimmy]

Well, not neceserally - since as the series continues to grow, adding even more great drivers (albeit in a limited / guest way) would likely draw in yet more racers (growing the sport is the idea anyway) and push us even further down the list!
It's fine and dandy wanting it to remain possible for us all to race, but that view isn't compatible with wanting the sport (10th off road) to get bigger.

That photo is a few years ago before I hurt my back, it's a santacruz super8.

[ashleyb4]

:o Thats one nice bike. Im more of a cross country person myself Ive got a Giant XTC but your bike is alot nicer than mine. I want it.:D


That photo is a few years ago before I hurt my back, it's a santacruz super8.

[jimmy]

Sold it a long time ago, I couldn't ride anymore without my back hurting - I still have my mongoose bmx (that I hurt my back on) and my Kona Kula tho.

[spenner]

If it isn't broke don't fix it !!!
We should look at why our Nationals are so popular ???
I for one would love to see Drescher, Moore, Booth, and others running, but why should the next Cragg be pushed out for these big names ???

The only thing would be to do 1 big meeting for the top drivers, just like the pro line and Neo meeting!!!

When i was first racing back in 98 Lee Martin, Darren Bloomfield and Tony Truman to name a couple were those drivers that were happy to get in. Hope you see what im saying.

Other than a big meeting, get to Regionals and support the sport as a whole.

[loose]

Well, not neceserally - since as the series continues to grow, adding even more great drivers (albeit in a limited / guest way) would likely draw in yet more racers (growing the sport is the idea anyway) and push us even further down the list!
It's fine and dandy wanting it to remain possible for us all to race, but that view isn't compatible with wanting the sport (10th off road) to get bigger.

That photo is a few years ago before I hurt my back, it's a santacruz super8.

Not sure i agree, i think the best way to get people interested is to get them involved. If they're not getting into events cos there's an elite clique getting priority thats only gonna discourage them. I think the idea of one off invitiational events is the best way to get big names in and allow Joe Public to watch. Not nick Joes own series.

Scale it down, if I'd been looking forward to running regionals all year, changing personal commitments in the hope of getting in, then some sponsored bloke got the nod instead of me cos he was in the area and fancied a blast, I'd be a tad cheesed off.

You just gotta remember that for every wildcard you give out, its taking the place of someone who'd probably get waaaay more out of competing.

Not having a pop, I admire you for constantly looking at ways to improve things, just dont quite agree this time. ;)

Out of interest, why dont they have a one off equivalent of the F3,4 and 5 event at the end of the season for the F1 and 2's?

[ashleyb4]

oh how did you hurt your back jimmy?? :(

A

[Lee]

To be honest and this may annoy some people, the national series is to decide who is the best in the uk so i would prefer to see the likes of Craig D get a place over little johnny. I know little johnny has a right to be there but there has to be a point where common sense prevails.

An invitational sounds an awesome idea too;)

[ashleyb4]

Why dont we have oOple international race.

A

[spenner]

Everyone would like to see the best drivers compete for the Championship, but this wasn't the question.
The question was these drivers competing in one off meetings in place of little Johnny.
If they booked in for the whole series then by all means we should look to fit them in.
I bet Jimmy is loving this now, everybody will have a good case. Perhaps we should move nationals to 12 weekends a year!!!
2wd x 6 you could have 250 drivers same as 4wd x6

[loose]

To be honest and this may annoy some people, the national series is to decide who is the best in the uk so i would prefer to see the likes of Craig D get a place over little johnny. I know little johnny has a right to be there but there has to be a point where common sense prevails.

An invitational sounds an awesome idea too;)

Yeah, its a national SERIES. If craig D enters 1 event he's not gonna trouble the overall leaderboard is he. If they want to win the National series cool, they can get their entry in and kick little johnnys butt and no-one will complain. ;)

Dont get me wrong, the few top boys I've seen seem pretty level headed (Cragg's marshalled my car and done a grand job) but its the idea of them cherry picking events when they have no intention of completing the series, pushing out some guy who's had his fingers crossed for a place in the process. Thats what doesn't quite sit right with me.

You can cover the positives of everyone watching the best racers who cant commit to the National series by running an invitational as agreed. If that was anything like as succesful as say the Neo you're laughin! :cool:

I'll stop waffling now :D

[loose]

Everyone would like to see the best drivers compete for the Championship, but this wasn't the question.
The question was these drivers competing in one off meetings in place of little Johnny.
If they booked in for the whole series then by all means we should look to fit them in.
I bet Jimmy is loving this now, everybody will have a good case. Perhaps we should move nationals to 12 weekends a year!!!
2wd x 6 you could have 250 drivers same as 4wd x6

yeah man!!! ;)

[jimmy]

Not sure i agree, i think the best way to get people interested is to get them involved. If they're not getting into events cos there's an elite clique getting priority thats only gonna discourage them. I think the idea of one off invitiational events is the best way to get big names in and allow Joe Public to watch. Not nick Joes own series.

Scale it down, if I'd been looking forward to running regionals all year, changing personal commitments in the hope of getting in, then some sponsored bloke got the nod instead of me cos he was in the area and fancied a blast, I'd be a tad cheesed off.

You just gotta remember that for every wildcard you give out, its taking the place of someone who'd probably get waaaay more out of competing.

Not having a pop, I admire you for constantly looking at ways to improve things, just dont quite agree this time. ;)

Out of interest, why dont they have a one off equivalent of the F3,4 and 5 event at the end of the season for the F1 and 2's?


I appreciate your thoughts mate - and probably a one-off event would be better. But you have to remember the series is one of the best in the world, you just don't get series like this in the USA because the distances are so huge. So right now, the Nationals are the top level in the UK.
What does the so-called 'elite clique' give you? It gives you exposure, it gives sponsors an interest, it brings sponsorship and money and investment into the racing. It means maybe a manufacturer bothers to come to the races, maybe your top F5 gets a free car suddenly - maybe that also filters down to regional and club levels, creating more interest and bringing more racers into the hobby.
Ok - I'm drawing a bit much out of it there, but you can surely see my point. There are plus points above and beyond the visual entertainment of it.


I don't go out of my way exactly to promote 'the hobby' and get new racers involved - but I've had many emails and chats with people who've started racing / re-started because they liked my website. I'm not saying that because I want a medal or somet, I just think that exposure is a good thing.
You get Andy Moore racing at a National - then maybe all those kids who race touring cars will see the light! :D

[jimmy]

Why dont we have oOple international race.

A

lol, we talked about that a while ago - sadly I'm too lazy :D

[Northy]

lol, we talked about that a while ago - sadly I'm too lazy :D

I'm sure with a few of the oOple team (and contributors ;) ) we could sort someting Jimmy :cool:

G

[Lee]

I have seen the light jim!! And enjoying racing again!!!:)

[loose]

yeah I can see where you're coming from Jimmy, I suppose if there's nothing of a similar level in some countries maybe it would be fair enough to allow a few international top boys in occasionally. Is the touring car scene for example so much bigger that it can draw that level of sponsor and manufacturer involvement? If so, maybe the idea could be tried for a year, see if the pros outweight the cons.

Only concern is that of you have such waiting lists already, then isn't the scene already booming? And the sponsors aren't giving that level of backing yet.

I suppose you dont know till you try, would just need to be wary that to keep people interested you need to keep them involved.

I'm prepared to cede a bit of ground if confronted by reasonable arguments ;)

And yeah, your site's groovy. Without it, and the contacts we've made on here, me and my newbie mates might not be having as much fun as we are!

[Chris Doughty]

sorry, I agree with Jimmy here.

also, 120 is the 'max' entrys that are normal, so if you have 125 places plus 5 wildcards that means 5 more 'jonnys' get to race than 'normal'

I know most (proberbly every) 2WD this year is 130 'jonnys' but the BRCA only added the extra 10 to cater for the demand.

the national series is the absolute best series to race in within the UK, why not make sure the best people race?

I know up and coming stars of the future might not get in as 'early' but once they are quick and 'earn' their place through regional series then they will start to get preferance and be well inside the 120 (or 125) cut-off


another note, sponsors follow the big names, thats why Moore and Rheinard got the HotBodies guy over HERE (UK) for the Neo-Race... who knows, some F5 kid might get to keep Rheinards car afterwards because they can't fit it in their luggage on the way home??? what is it really going to cost HB to do that? FAR less than the exposure it would give them

[bigred5765]

stuff that there no different than anyone else if you cant be bothered to put your entries in on time its your problem,
join the Que

[ashleyb4]

Yea northy come on jimmy that would be ace. Im sure one of the tracks wouldnt mind holding it and it would be good publicity for oople.

A

[bigred5765]

good idea on somelike like a race of champions though, once a year would be the b++++++s me think's all the top f1 / f2 drivers and possibly some international drivers, then fillin with us bods

[Chris Doughty]

stuff that there no different than anyone else if you cant be bothered to put your entries in on time its your problem,
join the Que

so someone like Brian Kinward is over to help out his X-Factory boys should enter all the UK nationals just in case and then drop out of the ones he will not do?

I think the thing Jimmy is trying to promote is this kind of thing that happened at Bury Metro a year or so ago, Jukka and Travis over to try a bit of UK racing, this bumped the profile and exposure of UK nationals quite a bit during the time of this event.

other potential situations are things like BK coming over, Rheinard, Moore, Spashett having a go.

then you would get more distributors at UK nationals, they would see some of the super talented up and coming drivers, possibly provide some assistance to their racing etc etc....

[bigred5765]

but if they know there coming over they could book in for the ones they need early enough, so as not to bump some poor Joe out, like soory you poor f4 f5 driver but a yank is coming over and we would rather have him than you,i dont think so

[jimmy]

Uhmmmm, that is exactly how it currently works carl - the top drivers are given preference.
My 'idea' is that 'other' top drivers who don't comply with current entry rules could also get entry, and limit that to a handful.

[Chris Doughty]

Uhmmmm, that is exactly how it currently works carl - the top drivers are given preference.
My 'idea' is that 'other' top drivers who don't comply with current entry rules could also get entry, and limit that to a handful.

exactly...

[Nick Goodall]

To me the main thing is that the Regional series are so under-subscribed as people prefer to just turn up and do Nationals, even if they're F5's etc. It’s all very well having the most over-subscribed national series, but Club and Regional races have really gone down hill since I packed up around 2001/2 – and that’s got to be the grass roots for the hobby as surely if these meetings don’t start growing again, you will literally have 130 people that do nationals in 1/10th R/C and that will be it (extreme I know but you have to look at the worst case scenario)! Plus if nobody else can get in, then the number of people competing can’t increase anywhere if they’re only set on Nat’s.I've always thought that to do Nationals you should have to compete at Regionals first to gain some sort of ability/standard - which is basically how any Motorsport works. You don't get amateur or newbie riders at the Motocross British GP rounds - the riders there have had to qualify by gaining a certain standard, just like our "F" Formula's. I have loved the chance of racing again, albeit only at local(ish) events such as Regionals etc, but it's given me a good chance to gauge if i'm still any good or not, and really get to grips with setting up the cars and racing competitively again. The problem with trying to organise one big invitational is that you would rarely find all those drivers free on the same weekend, at least if you let wild card entries there's always that chance that maybe just 1 (i.e Craig) or 2, 3 racers might turn up unexpectedly and can still race. I know they do it for the big Neo race, but 1/8th scale is far more popular across Europe anyway so it’s easier to get the sort of numbers they do.I think the chance to see the likes of Craig show up at an off road meet and possibly make the A should be something everyone would want to see or witness, he’s pretty much the most famous UK racer of all time and certainly one of the most successful. It doesn’t just apply to Craig but it’s great to see any of these top guys show up and demonstrate to all the kids and newbies just what can be achieved in the hobby. The last thing you need to do is push these kind of guys away as they simply won’t bother to come back next time……I vote for wildcard entries as stated by Chris/Jimmy, this leaves it open and as Chris said actually gives more Little Johnny’s a chance to race anyway so where’s the problem?I personally think if you can’t get into nationals and find this a big pain, you should keep racing at Regionals etc until your Formula is high enough to not have to rely on getting your entry in first – it will only improve your driving anyway as you’ll be in heats with people that are a higher standard then F5 or a complete beginner which personally I don’t think belong at nationals.

[Kopite]

When i used to race years ago, i didn't do the nationals cos i didn't think i was good enough. When i came back into it a few months ago, it seems everyone does the nationals, and (this is a personal opinion, and not a criticism in any way, because who am i to judge!) for me, it just doesn't have that 'aura' it once had.

I personally want to see the very best racers competing in the national series, from home and abroad, and if that means i lose my place because i'm an F5, then so be it. I'll just have to improve so i'm good enough to compete in the nationals.

i'd actually prefer to have to qualify for the national series through the regional series the year before. I know this is sort of the case already, as the higher licence grades get priority, but to actually recieve an 'invite' to race at the national series would be pretty cool.

....Please don't call me a tit or whatever for my views here, i'm not saying i'm right, it's just what i think :cool:

[telboy]

I don't understand why more people don't do regionals. I mean, I'm not sure which is the most popular region but there seems to be a reasonable turn out for the N.E. but there could be more.

For me doing the regionals is mainly to get experience, practice, and so on, before I even think about doing nat's. Because I don't see the point yet, of booking in to nats, being F5 I wouldn't stand much chance. So doing the regionals to get the old F rating up is the best option realy, surely.?

But, although it would lose some people their places, it would be good for the class, if someone like Andy moore were to take part. Like jimmy said, it would get some of the t.c. drivers think, ooh that actually looks like fun.

[burgie]

what about a 2nd "national" series, such as the old radio race car series, to run on the same day as nationals, but at tracks that don't currently have a national, such as coventry, swansea and the likes?

i have spoken to Dez Chand, and he's up for it....

[footey]

i think what jimmy is saying is a good idea :) but another option would be to do 2 nationals ie for each track that holds a national run it twice for diffrent people then at the end of the nationals have a big super final with all the top drivers from both nationals racing to see whos the best this would allow more people to run the nationals and allow wildcard entries:) again just my thinking dont go mad at me

[footey]

dam u beat me 2 it burgie :)

[Col]

Tough call ,this one! Loads of valid points for both sides of the arguement but here's my view and I'm gonna stick to it:
I really couldn't care less if Andy, Craig or even God turned up to race 1/10th off road - they shouldn't get to race. As racers (no matter how tallented) in a different class (on-road) they do not support or benefit our 1/10th off road in any way, therefore do not get to race unless their "F" rating is high enough, which it isn't cos they don't do off road... That's the point of nationals

Got a bit carried away there....sorry

[ryan]

I think if a top driver from another class or country wants to race in the UK nationals they should race enough of them to qualify for the championship, not just to do one then go back to what they usually do. People are trying to gain places in the championship to gain there F1 or F2 license and they wouldn't want some "wild cards" to come and push them down.

Also if they want to compete in the nationals they need to gain an off-road license the same as everyone else would have to. If this did happen i think there would be some very annoyed F4/F5 drivers that got pushed out because of the them.

[jimmy]

Tough call ,this one! Loads of valid points for both sides of the arguement but here's my view and I'm gonna stick to it:
I really couldn't care less is Andy, Craig or even God turned up to race 1/10th off road - they shouldn't get to race. As racers (no matter how tallented) in a different class (on-road) they do not support or benefit our 1/10th off road in any way, therefore do not get to race unless their "F" rating is high enough, which it isn't cos they don't do off road...

Got a bit carried away there....sorry

I think its a fair point to keep things as they are, but claiming someone has done nothing for off road like Craig is a bit of a stretch.

[Medders]

Tough call ,this one! Loads of valid points for both sides of the arguement but here's my view and I'm gonna stick to it:
I really couldn't care less is Andy, Craig or even God turned up to race 1/10th off road - they shouldn't get to race. As racers (no matter how tallented) in a different class (on-road) they do not support or benefit our 1/10th off road in any way, therefore do not get to race unless their "F" rating is high enough, which it isn't cos they don't do off road...

Got a bit carried away there....sorry


I think the overwhelming point is that if these guys want to race in these national events then they should be committed enough to get the required grade by attending other events.

[OldTimer]

what about a 2nd "national" series, such as the old radio race car series, to run on the same day as nationals, but at tracks that don't currently have a national, such as coventry, swansea and the likes?

i have spoken to Dez Chand, and he's up for it....

I was thinking the same as well, also have a 19t class it was so cool trying to get our cars down to the weight limit and tweaking the motors, etc to get every last bit of performance out the car.

I use to do the RRC series and it was good fun, at the time i did not think i was that good and did not do many nationals, but when i did not do to well, so i just did RRC series and the Midlands championship which we had back then.

[bert digler]

what about a f1 f2 nat series and a f3 f4 f5 series based on a league style system much closer racin double revenue for clubs and brca;)

[ryan]

I think a series like the RRC would be a good thing to bring back, then maybe all the reserves from the nationals now would be able to race a series such as the RRC. Maybe allocate a space in the higher class series for some "wildcards" They may push some of the lower grading people out of the nationals but then they would still be able to race in another series. Would there be enough tracks willing to host a national series and a RRC series along with the end of season final, Juniors etc?

[Col]

I think its a fair point to keep things as they are, but claiming someone has done nothing for off road like Craig is a bit of a stretch.

Sorry Jimmy, probably spoke out of turn as I have no idea who he is!

[NeilD]

I think most of us would like to see the Worlds best competing over here against our top drivers but is it right they are allowed to enter our National Championship? They could have an effect on results in terms of team drivers helping out the UK drivers. I'm not saying anything naughty would go on but there is a potential for a few arguments along the way. Then again not letting someone like Drescher compete because his F grade isn't high enough does seem a little silly as he is proven at the highest level in all forms of RC. To be honest i don't know which way we should lean.:eh?:

[tyreman]

what about a 2nd "national" series, such as the old radio race car series, to run on the same day as nationals, but at tracks that don't currently have a national, such as coventry, swansea and the likes?

i have spoken to Dez Chand, and he's up for it....

They tried to do this in the last few years of the RRci series,
1/ they banned F1 drivers
2/ You had to pay to join the RRCi drivers club for your points to score
3/ they started to clash the dates with Nationals

If they were to bring back the RRci series they would struggle, I think as it is already a very congested summer calender, BUT why not use the winter and make a type of winter national series?

There are quite a few national standard clubs holding a winter series ie: Stotfold, Cml, Kidderminster, Eden Park, Coventry why not get them all together and have on big series??

Anyway back on topic I aggree with Jimmy and Chris that there sholud be a wild card entry system in place, but if we want this to happen it would need to be done at the AGM at the end of the year.

As for an invitational type meeting, I was luck enough to race at the Reedy Race open class held at Marston Palmer in 1996, and that was a great 2 day meeting, every round was a race with mass starts.
Watching the invitational class heats change every round, so everyone raced everyone else, with the eventual winner coming from a culmination of points over the 2 days.

[OldTimer]

If they were to bring back the RRci series they would struggle, I think as it is already a very congested summer calender, BUT why not use the winter and make a type of winter national series?

So Dez if you are reading this "RRCi Winter Nationals" October to March @ CML, Coventry, Kidderminster, Bury, Stotfold and Eden Park, and as it would be one meeting at each venue a month, it should not interfere with there own winter series hopefully.

Anybody can race at them as long as they are a BRCA member, so any guest drivers can race as long as they are a BRCA member.

What do people think ?

[Col]

Sounds like the perfect solution to me. As a bonus, will probably get rid of all the fair weather racers as well! (my best result was a Batley last year in the NE regional when most of the field went home cos it flooded...)

[SHY]

How about providing 5 EXTRA places reserved ONLY for foreign entries? That way no national drivers would be "pushed out".

Can anybody copy+paste your BRCA rules in the forum as to how the qualification and license system works?

Nats:
I don't quite understand...
1) There's 130 drivers in 2WD saturday and 130 drivers in 4WD sunday?
2) Anyone with a F1-F5 licencse can take part as long as there is enough places?
3) F1 has precedence over F2 and so on I guess.
4) Does only regional points from the previous year qualify for F licenses?
5) Do you have to qualify first for F5, then F4 and so on? Or can you qualify directly to F1?
6) In which regionals is the level the highest. Do the best drivers in the UK do regionals?

There is only speak about the tops dogs in the world visiting. How about mere mortals who dream about doing a race in the UK and learn from the best 1:10 OR drivers in the world? For example here in Norway there's approx. 10-20 drivers in total in the Nats round, very big contrast to the UK...

We wouldn't have the time nor money to do all the Nats rounds + regionals to qualify. How about some reserved "foreign friendly entries"? Share the planet! :D We can even bring some norwegian salmon! (or blondes)...

Keep in mind we would be talking about a VERY small amount of extra participants here, it's a minor detail really! I'd also really like to see a comment from a BRCA representative to hear their view.

Btw. how is the situation for other UK classes? Any more classes with this amount of entries? We used to have 200+ entries for 1:10 OR in Norway in the 80s... but now only 1:8 OR (70-80 pr. race) and 200mm (30-40 pr. race) are blossoming. 1:5 is also doing OK. The rest is in bad shape...

[ashleyb4]

I dont want to cause offence to anyone here but i dont think we should let racers from other countrys race they dont support the uk shops and there are some drivers like me who have been trying to get into nationals for the past few years why should someone else come from another country and race at one meeting and possibly not allow one of the british drivers to race. They wouldnt do enough rounds to even complete the 4 rounds to be counted.

As for regionals it depends some top lads do race at regionals the like of richard lowe, stu wood, phil sleigh, tom yardy. Ive been told that mid west is one of the most difficult regions to get licence grades from and guess where i am lol. But i love it everyone is so friendly and we have some of the best tracks.

A

[xx4-nutter]

other racers from around the world would be cool, they could bring so much more to the UK scene, plus it would be ace to see a brit like tom cockerill, rich lowe and so many others compete against some other top drivers on our tracks that most know how to take and run a good line round the track on fixed tracks and good set ups for that track..

if tom can make a final on a track he hasnt raced before against some very quick drivers what would be and many others be like on home ground against some of the best ?

Garry

[SHY]

@Ashley: what's the problem if this is additional places? We're talking maybe 2-3 drivers at a round or two?

You guys are 100% welcome to race at any event in Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland - and probably more or less any other country in Europe... Even if you don't open your arms, we have ours open for you! This is valid for most full scale race series as well... it's not that unusual to go abroad to get better matching... after all, this boils down to having fun racing!

I know this is vey much a matter of principle... but keep in mind that in real life this really is no problem. It would not interfere with who is UK champion, it would not "push anyone out", it would just be very much fun, social and interesting!

And how do you know we don't buy from UK stores? We do indeed dude! ;)

Are we welcome or not? Is it that much of an "island"? C'mon lads!!! We'd even support the local fish&ships stores!!! :D

If not, we'll call back all the norwegian players in the Royal League = half of it :p

[elvo]

How about a British GP .. ... or two? Or a Reedy Race. How long has it been since we had one of those, off-road? 10 years?

Think about it, it'd give the Continentals a chance to visit and enjoy those marvellous ferry rides and grass tracks. And it'd be open to anyone including people without an 'F' grade.


If SHY brings the blondes, I'll bring beer. We're all set :cool: (I'm sure Northy will invite the French or Dutch for their cheese)


(And indeed, Apex, DC, BB, AC,... all have a fair sized customer base on mainland!)

[mole2k]

A british GP would be great, I would have to see if I could make an appearance :p

[SHY]

Now that's a brilliant idea! We hereby order you to arrange an EFRA GP every year! *thumbs up*

Or else... hundreds of foreigners will enter the UK Regionals & Nats and mess up any hope of a F-license :p

Who takes responsibility? Make it happen in 2008!!!

[Belsten]

I think an invitational is a great idea, as long as I get invited

[ashleyb4]

Yea a UK GP would be ace i want one.

A

[SHY]

Will the Euros be in the UK next year btw? If so, what track? Link?

[Lee]

Im not sure where the euros is next year.

I love the sound of a british GP.

If we could get a club to agree to host a 3 day event then i would volunteer my services to be a point of contact and work with the brca to host the event.;)

[Doomanic]

I dont think we should let racers from other countrys race they dont support the uk shops

Does that mean you will you stop using the radio that came from HK Ash?

[ashleyb4]

Its to exspensive 280 quid i got it for 100 quid less than that.

A

[Doomanic]

But Ash, you said that racers who don't support UK shops shouldn't be allowed to race......:rolleyes:

[tc2k]

:D Quality

[ashleyb4]

I do support a uk shop if you want ill go into the yoke section now and just remove the link ive put in to your site doom for bx parts.

A

[jimmy]

Annnnnyway - back on topic!!! :D

[AndyM]

i think the British GP is a great idea!!

im lookin forward to it :D

[mattym0310]

sounds like a great idea!! :D

[PaulRotheram]

kick ass!

[andy reeves]

My personal opinion is that we should allow foreign drivers. As surely if the top drivers want to come over here and race surely this is good for the series and also a reflection on the great tracks we have over here and also the great work that is done by the BRCA officals. It has happened in touring cars for god knows how many years. It also happens in full size motorsport. I know people that come over from sweden just to race in the championship. Its a good reflection on the series.

Yes it does mean that some of the lower grades may not get in but this then puts the emphasis on you doing regionals to gain your liecence grade. As it is meant to be an elite championship.

Yes i am an F5 this year and have got lucky to get into some rounds but the rounds that i have got in to i have taken as practice to race on different tracks that i have never been to before. I think at the minute i am border line F3/4 from the regionals and do i think that i am ready to do a full series of nationals NO. If next year i can maintain the same liecence grade next year or possibly improve (as long as i am a F3) then yes i would then consider myself to be ready to progeress to nationals.

[losixxx]

but isnt it a national series not a euro's/worlds?

[SHY]

Andy, that's a very good attitute! Accept where you're at, but enjoy getting tuffer competition and strive to improve! ;)

The reason for us aliens to come to the UK to race is not to win (I'm not a pro), it's go get beaten. Badly! So we can improve...

Next year: just looked through the minutes from the EFRA AGM, electrics... can't see anything specific for 1:10 OR... so I guess nobody applied. Come on BRCA!

If there won't be an EC in the UK next year it'd be great if someone started working on a GP already now! And that should be a yearly event, changing venue every year. If there is an EC, the GP could be a combined GP/EC warm-up at the same track?

[grumpy]

for all drivers that have entered but are on the reserve list
how about 1 or 2 legs of pre qualifying early morning of the national day fastest to go foward to the main qualifying event:confused:

[losixxx]

for all drivers that have entered but are on the reserve list
how about 1 or 2 legs of pre qualifying early morning of the national day fastest to go foward to the main qualifying event:confused:
2 reason why that wouldnt happen
firstly, as practise already starts at 8am it would mean an even earlier start for the officials
secondly would people actually travel 100's of miles for what might end up a 5 minute run?

[Nick Goodall]

British GP would be cool, only problem with the Euro's is that they have to be run on a "Natural" surface, so that basically means Grass here in the UK as there aren't any Dirt tracks.

[Northy]

One was run on grass at Teesside back in the day...... ;)

G

[jimmy]

I guess it doesn't have to be quite 100% natural surface? :confused: maybe even bury metro would count a a natural surface track! Batley certainly would.


http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/euros2006/day-1/rack.jpg

[Chris Doughty]

I think there is a percentage, but its not 100%, more like 70% I think.

are 'we' allowed to propose a rule change ro EFRA on this? if not, who can?

[Lee Martin]

NOOOOO!!!!

Euros has to be on dirt....

i kno its not a rule....but dirts the BEST!

[SHY]

LOL! My thoughts exactly! How "natural" is all that blue carpet?

Just make a couple of meters with some natural ground. If it's a 100% artificial track, just add some meters of "ready grass" on top for the event...

In any case I'm sure one could apply for an exception of the rule. Or simply propose a rule change for the coming AGM. What does it state now, min. 50% natural? Let's find out...

Would it be a problem to run it on a grass track? Too much wear?

Most importantly though is to start talking with BRCA and EFRA representatives ASAP... time flies!

[SHY]

@Chris: changing EFRA rules is easy! :D It works this way over here (and probably similar for you):

1) propose through your club. The clubs annual meeting votes on it.
2) if passed by the club, sent to the nat. associations annual meeting. Voting againg...
3) passed to EFRA AGM for voting in november...

Note! The deadline for proposals to the EFRA AGM is around the beginning of august, so you'd better talk to some BRCA guys right away! (it's too late for us in Norway). Maybe it's time also to look at shell venting holes?

I can help you fill in the form for proposal if you'd like. I uploaded a form here so you can see it:
www.ymr.no/rule_proposal_blank2007.doc (http://www.ymr.no/rule_proposal_blank2007.doc)

2007 rules:
http://www.efra.se/pdf/handb07weblocked.pdf

Some interesting findings from the rulebook:
-the venue for the EC should be decided 2 years in advance (given applications are received)
-the club hosting the EC must have organized a GP within the last 2 years = you have a problem! GP first!
-page 105: 2,5-3 meters wide, min 120 m long, can't see anything about surface type... It just states "modified on-road tracks are not suitable".

Rumour has it Spain wants it... anyone know more about that? Did they host a GP during the last 2 years?

[Chris Doughty]

I have to agree with Lee, Dirt is best, it would not be a Euro's if it was not on dirt.

Grass is worst of all.

[Lee Martin]

yep...........

tht vienna track was amazing!

the track at finland was also awesome and the organisation was 2nd to none...never been so impressed with a club before!

france on grass was just NO WAY near as good...they club did nothing wrong....just dirt is 10 million times better than astro or grass.....

we just dont get the weather here!!!

[SHY]

Forget the EC then, but give us an annual GP so we can come race there!...

Grass would be "exotic" for us U see! We have nothing but dirt...

[Lee Martin]

Come to a GP at CML Raceway.

Reedy Race Style

[Nick Goodall]

One was run on grass at Teesside back in the day...... ;)

G

I remember it well, Q'd 6th in 4wd with the MX-4 thanks to Mr Weather :D

Lee, GP would be so good at yours, at least you could make it a fun event - Reedy Race style, Proline control tyres etc.

Love the thought of it!

[SHY]

http://www.seek-truth.com/wp-content/files/justdoit.jpg

[Lee Martin]

yeh imagine it!!!!!

be Top draw...

big Marque!!!

lets do it!

televised

[SHY]

ask Copter to broadcast it on the net!

[Lee Martin]

well get things organised first...

[Nick Goodall]

We've got some planning to do Lee :cool:

[Chris Doughty]

count me in !

[Lee Martin]

it will be invitational...

then open first come first serve booking in

[SHY]

but surely reserved places for each country? Not another UK Nationals??? ;)

Given the wast amount of national drivers you have you gotta take that into consideration. It would be nice... please!!!

[Lee Martin]

yeh of course...a true international event!

[Wraggy]

it will be invitational...

then open first come first serve booking in

i will get an invite then !!!! ;) Pretty Boy ..

[SHY]

Alright! International, not invitational... :rolleyes:

So you're saying as for your homies it will be first serve... no ranking? How did you solve this in the past?

[Nick Goodall]

Lee i've got some names we need to think about too - hopefully some you'll remember but probably some you won't :D

[Nick Goodall]

Alright! International, not invitational... :rolleyes:

So you're saying as for your homies it will be first serve... no ranking? How did you solve this in the past?

No what he's saying is there will be an Invitational Class (I.E Top 40 UK, Top 5 Norway, Top 5 France etc etc), then there will also be an Open class which anyone can enter but as there will be limited numbers it's first come first served. :)

[SHY]

OK, good solution! ;)

Just make sure you talk to BRCA (and they talk to EFRA) if you want a GP-status for the race, there's not much time.

Check also the rules for allocations for a GP, you might have to follow EFRA std. procedures

[_sleigh_]

No what he's saying is there will be an Invitational Class (I.E Top 40 UK, Top 5 Norway, Top 5 France etc etc), then there will also be an Open class which anyone can enter but as there will be limited numbers it's first come first served. :)

Full on Reedy Race style meeting... Not heard of an Off-road Reedy race meeting since the one at Marston(UK) back in the 90's..

Is it worth seeing if AE/Reedy want to revive their Invitational Off-Road meeting??

[Lee Martin]

already got quite few big names lined up that may want in...

[SHY]

Guys, wazzup?

Maybe you should start a new tread for a GP or invitational race'2008?

[mole2k]

I would deffinately be up for going across the pond for this :)