Battery straps X6 squared

[grelland]

Hi there,


I have an X6 squared, and I am not too happy with the battery mounting setup.

The front thumbscrews are mounted way too far outwards, and foul the body, and with my Corally Lipos that are a bit taller than my other packs, the body sits way too high on the chassis.

Is there a kit ore something that will replace the battery brace with something along the lines of the positivo-negativo brace I used on my non-squared car, where the two forward posts were mounted either side of the ESC compartment.

I also see some cars with two separate bars, seemingy from a different car, does anybody know what car they are from?

Cheers,
Roy

[Chris Griffiths]

Ive seen a review, may of been on here actually, were they have replaved thumb screws/nuts with a counter sunk washer and a counter sunk screw. looks really good aswell.

Ill be doing this soon myself


Chris

[grelland]

I see, but then you need to screw the countersung screw into the chassis everythime you replace your lipo, and that eventually strip out the threads....

[Chris Griffiths]

I see, but then you need to screw the countersung screw into the chassis everythime you replace your lipo, and that eventually strip out the threads....



Yes that would be a pain in the bottom! Ill try find that review.


Chris

[Chris Griffiths]

Couldnt find review but found this pic

http://www.redrc.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/dirtzx6brace-1.jpg

You can see what i mean here

[grelland]

Yes I see, just as I thought, but I still have some concerns about stripping out the threads...

[Darren Boyle]

The Quick Release optional battery mounting kit (Part number XF1225) with 4 long threaded rods and 4 low profile nuts works really well in cases like this, just use a nut driver on the front two nuts and replace the rear two if you prefer with thumb screws as most drivers do...

[grelland]

I already have a kit like that, but what happens is that the nyloc on the nut is stronger than the hold of the threads in the chassis, so I ended up threading the rod in and out anyways... Also, to account for the taller lipos, the rods need to be long, so that again it fouls the body...

What about keeping the rearmost mounts, and add a couple of standoffs each side of the ESC bay, then make e new carbon plate... I can do that on my own, but I cant be the only one with this problem?

[Chris Griffiths]

Same here ive got that kit and its too tight so as you say takes out the grub screw also still hits body.

I may try a bit of heat proof tape on body t see if that stops the rubbing on paint but i doubt it, will prob just go staright through tape


Chris

[Darren Boyle]

Couple of solutions guys......

I know it does not help you with a body already painted and pre-cut, but when cutting a NEW shell do NOT cut to the cut line but cut 5-6mm lower to allow for more room for "larger" LIPO's underneath. When the body was designed it was for NIMH's or "standard size" smaller LIPO's, as they get bigger and bigger, then the cut line for the body just needs to be lower and lower.

As for the rods coming out when you undo the nuts, simply install the rods with plenty of "good" threadlock and assemble to the correct height when they are put into the chassis etc (I always advise to put a LIPO pack in place, assemble and have the top of the threaded rod just flush with the top of the nut), then leave in place overnight for the threadlock to "set" properly and remove the nuts the following day (which should then come off with ease and leave the rod firmly in its place and set to the right height for your type of packs) has worked every time for anyone I know who has tried it.

The reason the front two mounts are so wide was to make the two chassis sections either side of the "front two" cell slots as big as possible to install radio equipment in the two outer chassis sections, also since when the car was concieved it was the X60 truck that came first (and the buggy and truck both utlize the same chassis moulding tool) and the height of the nut on the front two mounts was not an issue or consideration on the truck. When the buggy followed, NIMH batteries were still being used by the masses (so radio gear was installed in the outer chassis areas) and the only LIPO's on offer were much shallower then too (hence the height of the strap was no trouble), so the design was fine, however the two tips above (lower body cut line and the QC battery kit) are simple, quick and easy solutions to these minor issues.

[Chris Griffiths]

Cheers for tips!



Chris

[MikePimlott]

Not a squared but same idea. Ive seen it a little neater than this also. Think its AE B44 battery posts, straps and thumb screws.

[TonyM]

I also bought the quick change kit and decided to keep the threads, discard the nuts and use standard FT thumb nuts. However, for the front two nuts I have reduced their height (screw the nut onto a screw, stick it in the Dremel and hold against a sheet of sandpaper) by approximately a half and bevelled the edges, still very easy to screw on but lower profile.

I also cut slots in the two rear holes of the battery brace, so I never have to fully unscrew those nuts, just pull the brace out. I know there were warnings about this allowing the chassis to flex more, but I don't believe that for European driving this is an issue - let's face it you have a very stiff lipo battery doing that job for you.

Oh, and as already mentioned, I cut the body along the lower of the two cut-lines.

[grelland]

Thanks for all the good answers, I agree this is a minor issue, but sometimes its fun to work on those also :)

I will have a look at what I do, then post some pics of the outcome

[super__dan]

I use screws all round, can't remember the last time I removed the lipo from my car as I just top it up between races.

[matdodd]

I'm the same I just leave my lipos in and use 2 button head screws in the front and thumb screws at the rear

[YoungChazz]

That truly was the idea from the beginning. Don't take the battery out!

And a good 4200 will give you all the run time you need. Buying more wastes money.

[TonyM]

You've got to keep in mind that some race meets stipulate that you charge in a lipo bag. Also, I've been to meetings where there are only four heats = 21 minutes max to your next race, and finally places where there is no electricity and a long haul from the car with a charging battery, so easier to have multiple sets of lipo's pre-charged.

That truly was the idea from the beginning. Don't take the battery out!

And a good 4200 will give you all the run time you need. Buying more wastes money.

[Chris Griffiths]

I thought if you just charged one lipo over and over it wouldnt be as good as rotating them? I know there not like NIMH but i still thought they would take a bit of a hammering.

Also i think id always take out of my car just incase somthing did go wrong

Chris

[burgie]

Lipos do not show any drop off in performance if you just charge them and race them. It is recommended that you let them cool down between charges, but I have never known any of my lipos to come off anything other than slightly warm.

As long as they are always balance charged, they will be fine. I have a couple of sets of 3200mah team orion lipos that are in their 4th year of racing now. :thumbsup:

[Chris Griffiths]

Awsome!!! :thumbsup:

[mark christopher]

I thought if you just charged one lipo over and over it wouldnt be as good as rotating them? I know there not like NIMH but i still thought they would take a bit of a hammering.

Also i think id always take out of my car just incase somthing did go wrong

Chris
not the case at all chris

just keep topping em up, no loss of performance is noticed

[Chris Griffiths]

not the case at all chris

just keep topping em up, no loss of performance is noticed


So me having 4 5300 50c lipos really is stupid!!!!

Cheers Mark

Chris

[mark christopher]

So me having 4 5300 50c lipos really is stupid!!!!

Cheers Mark

Chris
er putting it like that........ :p

flog some and buy some saddles for your durango chris ;)

[Chris Griffiths]

er putting it like that........ :p

flog some and buy some saddles for your durango chris ;)

hahaha! I hope mr Ball has you on a good discount!!!!!


Chris

[grelland]

kepping the lipos in my car is not an option... first of all, I work on the car between every race, and it is a total pain in the a** to have all these leads hanging out. Secondly, when I am off for practice or a club race in an afternoon, I want to get as much track-time as possible, so I have 3-4 packs pre-charged, so that I can make good use of the time at the track. The track I go to the most is some 90 minutes drive from my house, so there is not that much effective time available.

[Chris Griffiths]

kepping the lipos in my car is not an option... first of all, I work on the car between every race, and it is a total pain in the a** to have all these leads hanging out. Secondly, when I am off for practice or a club race in an afternoon, I want to get as much track-time as possible, so I have 3-4 packs pre-charged, so that I can make good use of the time at the track. The track I go to the most is some 90 minutes drive from my house, so there is not that much effective time available.

This sounds exactly like me! practise is a killer when waiting for lipos to charge

[super__dan]

That's fair enoughski, but just going back to the 1 lipo thing, I actually find they get much better after the first or second use when they've warmed up a bit. That said I don't race as much as I'd like so they may have stood for several weeks part charged between uses.

[SHY]

Use the old chassis ;)

http://www.ymr.no/10orTip4.htm

[grelland]

I know, that is actually an option :)

[AmiSMB]

When I last raced I had two saddle 4200mah IP LIPO packs. One set were in the Durango and one in the CR2. I went out and practiced until each car was flat and I had alot of practice. I then recharged and was running both classes and there was only 5 heats of which I was in two of them. I got each car back to the pits and was back out marshalling in time and each pack was ready before each race. The track I attended is 2hours and 5 minutes away but I did not need any more packs for an every enjoyable club meeting.

[YoungChazz]

I'm with you, Ami. I only own one pack, a year-old SMC handed down from Paul. It's all I need for any race I've ever attended. While I'm off marshalling and talking to the peeps, it's ready for the next race.

[grelland]

Glad to hear you all only need 1 pack, but that is not at all my experience, and I am looking for a solution to my problem....

I have some parts on its way, and will update you as soon as I see whether my plan sucseeds or not :)

BTW, I dont see any other cars out there that is not designed for replacing the battery between each race...

[SHY]

Totally agree Roy! :thumbsup:

Time is a limited resource! When I go to the track I bring with me a sack of charged batteries. I then practise for an hour or two non-stop, just replace the packs. Part of the beauty with LiPo is the possibility to have them pre-charged for days and weeks!!! That's gold!!! I've been doing RC flying for several years too. Sometimes the LiPos lay around for 6 monts+ ... and still perform just av well with close to full runtime!!!

The DMS brace on the old chassis works very well! Does it not fit the new chassis?

Mind you guys we also run 8 minute heats here in Norway! We plan to increase the length by 1 minute every year...

[sparrow.2]

Mind you guys we also run 8 minute heats here in Norway! We plan to increase the length by 1 minute every year...

Did you have to modify the race format? The races we have organised over the winter all had to run 5 minute heats due to the amount of participants (90-120) How many racers do you have on average per race?

8 minute mains I can understand but 8 minute qualifiers must be super-boring...

[SHY]

Did you have to modify the race format? The races we have organised over the winter all had to run 5 minute heats due to the amount of participants (90-120) How many racers do you have on average per race?

8 minute mains I can understand but 8 minute qualifiers must be super-boring...

Now, you guessed right. We are seldom more than 20-30 persons in total in each class, so we have plenty of room for longer heats :D

Well, since we now only qualify for best total time (not round-by-round) it's quite exciting actually! We race hard and go for it 100% in the qualis as well!

I like the possibility of recovering in a longer final. Not much you can do in 5 minutes only... I'm used to 45 minute mains from 1:8 TR, which is really excellent! ... one day...

Imagine electric classes with really long finals and christmas tree finals... how cool wouldn't that be?

[AmiSMB]

I think that the reason I can just have one pack per car is probably because I have a decent charger. I use a Hyperion 0615i DUO III which can balance charge two lipo packs at up to 3C on a 5000mah Lipo pack assuming that the manufacturer says that you can :) It really does make a difference having a high power charger.

[SHY]

I think that the reason I can just have one pack per car is probably because I have a decent charger. I use a Hyperion 0615i DUO III which can balance charge two lipo packs at up to 3C on a 5000mah Lipo pack assuming that the manufacturer says that you can :) It really does make a difference having a high power charger.

Yes, but we're limited to max. 1C charge rate for safety reasons.

[Darren Boyle]

BTW, I dont see any other cars out there that is not designed for replacing the battery between each race...

You dont want to look at a Losi JRXS-R for touring car then! Makes fitting and changes cells on the X6 SQ look very easy indeed...... :D

[grelland]

have to agree with SHY here, should also add that whenever I go racing for a club race, I have to make sure my own and my three sons' cars runs well... therefore I have 4 chargers, a bag of batteries, and two boxes of spares to keep all the cars running. LiPo and brushless is indeed a blessing for RC-dads....

[AmiSMB]

Yes, but we're limited to max. 1C charge rate for safety reasons.

I am only charging at 1C at the moment even though the charger is capable of doing more. Some of the newer packs state they can be charged up to 5C by the manufacturer without issues and for a 5000mah pack that would 25A and the only charger to get near that is the Hyperion 0720. I just find that some people are buying chargers based on C ratings but are not actually realising that they cannot charge their super capacity Lipo packs as the max the charger can do means that they can only charge below 1C. I think that there is also a big difference in the balancer circuits of some of the better chargers which can help decrease the charge time no matter what the charge rate.

[YoungChazz]

I was an R/C dad not so long ago, Grelland, and I understand. Paul and I started with NiMh 2000 packs and only had one charger to start with. It ran continuously, and the one-charger thing did not last long...

30-A Rivergate power supply and two Novak Millenniums could barely keep up with it. The Rivergate ran the comm lathe, a fan large enough to cool two charging packs, and a dyno too. It was Paul's power supply until it finally died about six months ago. We bought it used and it worked its wazoo off for us for more than 10 years. Think I paid $75. What a bargain!

If we had had LiPo & brushless, I would have had more time to go get lunch!

[grelland]

you see, and still you designed a car where you can't change the batteries ;)

[mark christopher]

you see, and still you designed a car where you can't change the batteries ;)
get a life, i can change my lipo in mu x6 sq in under a minute!!
try using ur brain for a solution, not to create a problem:thumbdown:

[grelland]

are we being grumpy today? :)

btw, I do have a life; a great one even :)

[grelland]

short update from the guy without a life....

I bought a pair of b44 straps, and found a pair of standoffs in my 12th scale parts bin, and came up with this solution:
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/grelland/x6.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/grelland/x6-2.jpg
I realise it is not optimal, with two straps vs one, but at least it clears the body.

Maybe I will draw up a one-piece cf board and have fibre-lyte make a couple, but then I would place the posts further back, to free up more real estate for the electronics. As long as I am running the low-profile servo, I am fine, though.

[hottuna]

Mine looks like this. Front posts in the corners, and the rear in the original place.

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/dsc_7241.jpg

[grelland]

excactly what I was thinking :)

guess it was not just me then... ;)

Did you dremel that one out, or do you have a drawing?

Roy

[Darren Boyle]

I wonder if we can have our original "DMS" X6 Carbon strap modified??? I will look into this.......

[grelland]

I wonder if we can have our original "DMS" X6 Carbon strap modified??? I will look into this.......

NOW we are talking :) Keep us posted

[Darren Boyle]

I did say we will see ;)

[Paul_Sinclair]

I love seeing the family stepping up, modding stuff, and working on better ways to do things. I always wanted those forward posts to be more centered in the car, but they ended up on the outside of the car because that was the only way to fit a GTB in the 'side pods' of the buggy chassis. LRP, Tekin, all the other speedos would fit fine, but Novak's popular enough we didn't want to cause issues. That is also the reason the chassis rails along the two-cell area are only 'half-height'. Of course now we're all running LiPo with the ESC in the center, but back in 2008 that wasn't the case.

EDIT: By the way, rock crawlers tend to have a bunch of various-length aluminum stand-offs, they work great for small projects and mods.

[grelland]

About time to design a new chassis then ;)

Maybe two saddle packs?

BTW, I noticed one thing while fiddling with this and some body issues, I have, and that was the fact that the "old" X6 and squared chassises are not the same shape in the rear corners. I used an X6 shell on my squared chassis, and saw that they dont have the same curvature in the rear. Are the shells different also? Was this intentional?

Roy

[Paul_Sinclair]

The body is the same bottom outline from the standard to the squared. Only the window frames, the top rear line, and the side scoops changed, really. The lexan is pulled from the same mold, I know that.

The lines of the chassis where the front of the rear arms mount changed to help prevent rubbing of the new 'straight' arms on the chassis. The original X - 6 rear arms had a small molding bump on the front along the hinge pin to help move them back and clear the chassis, which was straight. Through running the 6 pretty much the whole team liked running arms and hubs forward, so I made it so the Squared arms could move even a touch more along the hinge pin.

The outer rear corner (where the lower rear body rubs ever so slightly) is a touch further back... that change doesn't have any specific reason, just the way I ended up drawing the chassis.

[grelland]

Thanks as always, for taking time to answer these kinds of questions :)

[hottuna]

Did you dremel that one out, or do you have a drawing?

Roy
I measured on the chassis, then marked it out on masking tape placed on the CF, then happy dremeling :thumbsup:

[JCJC]

Here's a jpg of our strap used on standard X6, photo's on profile page, much the same as hottuna's. ( A as used, B cheap version)

Printed from original drawing onto large sticky label, stuck onto delrin sheet and cutout, liked it so much had carbon one made cos it would look nicer !

Allows stick & saddle lipo, now has thumb screws. (we may have adjusted some of the dimensions/hole sizes, cannot remember)

[grelland]

great, do you mind if I use this and have some made, or is it copyrighted?

[JCJC]

If I were you I would make a mockup from cardboard, check all the sizes etc, holes for thumbscrews/pins will be different, then you can do what you like with it, it worked for us - and there was nothing else at the time.

I had one made by http://www.fibre-lyte.co.uk/

Have fun

[mitch 66]

Hi there,


I have an X6 squared, and I am not too happy with the battery mounting setup.

The front thumbscrews are mounted way too far outwards, and foul the body, and with my Corally Lipos that are a bit taller than my other packs, the body sits way too high on the chassis.

Is there a kit ore something that will replace the battery brace with something along the lines of the positivo-negativo brace I used on my non-squared car, where the two forward posts were mounted either side of the ESC compartment.

I also see some cars with two separate bars, seemingy from a different car, does anybody know what car they are from?

Cheers,
Roy
i think its rubbish too and i use tape from my touring car just rap it round 3 times :thumbsup: