Control Tyres

[sldmodels]

With the recent banning of foam tyres in the Micro Nationals, I'm thinking is it time that we should have a control tyre. I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, and it does mean that we end up further down the road of a more-serious and less-fun series, but I think we're edging our way there anyway.

What do you think?

[Jonesy]

Control Tyres clearly work in 1/10th and keeps it simple for the drivers however with Rally Blocks looking like being the choice for next year I'm not sure the control tyre element would be needed in 18th, I'm sure there are different tyres out there but not sure if you need anything different!!

I'm sure a more experienced Micro Driver will let me know there are different tyres out there! :thumbsup:

[JonMack]

In all honesty I don't think it's necessary, the majority of people run yellow rally blocks, although white are quick becoming the new favourite. Personally I prefer the look and feel of mini pins, so I run those on mine, as Jonesy said, rally blocks are so widely accepted as the tyre, I don't think control tyres are necessary.

Could make for an interesting proposal at next years EGM though :thumbsup:

[rocketrob]

What do you think?

1) That the whole "tire deal" hasn't been thought through, and I am wondering if about halfway through the 2010/11 season what everyone is going to do when a tire shortage hits? (rubber tires have been relatively easy to come up with when only some people are running them, but it's something else entirely when everyone is forced to)

2) That if you're doing away with foams, and more specifically 1/10th TC foams, that you should also be getting away from any other 1/10th tire/wheel combo as well. And thus, if you're going to be racing mini/micro cars to use mini/micro sized shoes on them.

[_sleigh_]

Whilst I can see the rationale for a control tyre(s) proposal (this is from experience within 1/10th);

Racers don't have to take dozens of different tyre types to each meeting.
No ONE racer can pull out an elite tyre and kick everyone's arse.
Cheaper - as less tyres types needed.
Level playing field.
The list goes on.....
On the other hand, for Micro racers some of these points don't really apply;


Tyre wear isn't really an issue.
Carrying multiple tyres to a meeting, when probably only 1 set of each is required, doesn't take up much room (there smaller for a start :lol:)
As long as the tyre is commercially available (yes this is another can of worms, but common sense should apply) why not have allow a full choice of different tyres and yes some drivers might risks not having the perfect tyre. It's that a skill of the driver, having knowledge of their car and knowing the likely tyres that will/won't work on the track surface they're visiting. You'll always get some clever sod that buys a new tyre from abroad that's tenth's quicker than any other, but thats when the commercially available bit should come in. The wording for any rule on "commercially available" should left to the committee to draft and to them to enforce.


The other point i'd make and this can be seen all to often in 1/10th Nationals and some regionals, with our controlled tyre rule only allowing 2 different types (not compounds) we are now restricting ourselves from experiencing other manufacturer tyres that might come onto the market. We've seen this happen with tyres such as the GRP conespike and Ballistic Stud, both of which haven't really taken off. They both could well have benefits over and above our normal controlled tyres, but no serious National racer is going to dedicate his/her time to long term testing when it doesn't help come race day at a national. Perhaps this is simply the restriction of our section only allowing 2 types of tyre?? (that's something for a different section/thread)

I think the main point I'm trying to make is... Be careful in restricting the class(es) to much. The main pull for me to compete at Micro meetings again is the friendly, relax meetings and competitors. Too many restrictive rules could change the feel of your meetings, certainly there seems to be a underlying feeling heading that way at 1/10th Nationals.

[Chris Doughty]

I don't believe you can have a control tire in the micro series as there is no standard in the wheel sizes or even fitments.

[HarlowS]

Exactly, ! Meaning you will go and buy a nice new Blaze or Shark and you cant even run kit wheels and tyres, and i cant see it going down well telling joe blogs with his RC18 that he has to go and get wheel adaptors to run MASSIVE (in comparison to the car) wheels and tyres !!

Not a good idea (in my opinion.)

The other thought, is that you would stop development of any other tyres. Why would manufacturers develop anything if they know the micro scene cant and wont run them ?? It would be another tyre domination for Schumacher.

I don't believe you can have a control tire in the micro series as there is no standard in the wheel sizes or even fitments.

[peetbee]

I agree with the comments regarding availability, plus the difficulty of trying to come up with a suitable one for the 1/18 class (as RC18, ZT2, etc can't run TC wheels now).

It will be interesting to see what happens of the course of the next season, but wouldn't having a control tyre require a rule change anyway?

[c0sie]

wouldn't having a control tyre require a rule change anyway?

Yes.

[c0sie]

PS: We havent even tried the new 2010-11 rules yet and already we are having the "how about this? how about that?" discussions?

How about we try what we voted in only 9 days ago, and then have a think about changing anything that needs changing for 2011-12?

PPS: Harlow! Posting in a micro thread eh...next you'll be telling us about the Harlow massive comeback :p

[Chris Doughty]

nothing like a bit of forward planning for next years AGM/EGM though :eh?:

[DCM]

It takes out some of the guess work, I suppose.... but like Pete has said, how do you manage it for the cars that don't accept the 12mm hex wheels?

[HarlowS]

Sorry, got the wrong thread lol :D



PPS: Harlow! Posting in a micro thread eh...next you'll be telling us about the Harlow massive comeback :p[/QUOTE]

[sldmodels]

Well I started the discussion to do exactly that, get a discussion going. It does seem like the tyre at the moment is the white / yellow rally blocks.

As far as touring cars go, having a control tyre helps in so much that you know what to go out and buy, you also run the risk of running out of that tyre, but, the manufacturer shouldn't put their tyres forward as a control tyre if they can't meet the demand.

In the SPC, you've got 4 or 5 different possible F1 car's, and you have a range of control tyres to choose from, which helps in one instance, but can confuse the situation, and cost quite a bit (however most the suppliers have offered the tyres at a reduced cost).

All I can suggest to do now, with foams being banned, and everyone having to go to rubbers, is to buy your tyres now if you're worried you won't get any in time.

[HarlowS]

The manufacturers dont put there tyres forward, the clubs and committee nominate them.


Well I started the discussion to do exactly that, get a discussion going. It does seem like the tyre at the moment is the white / yellow rally blocks.

As far as touring cars go, having a control tyre helps in so much that you know what to go out and buy, you also run the risk of running out of that tyre, but, the manufacturer shouldn't put their tyres forward as a control tyre if they can't meet the demand.

In the SPC, you've got 4 or 5 different possible F1 car's, and you have a range of control tyres to choose from, which helps in one instance, but can confuse the situation, and cost quite a bit (however most the suppliers have offered the tyres at a reduced cost).

All I can suggest to do now, with foams being banned, and everyone having to go to rubbers, is to buy your tyres now if you're worried you won't get any in time.

[sldmodels]

Sorry Harlow, can only speak from my experience in TC, and the section asks the distributors to submit tyres to be voted on each year. I understand it'll be different for different sections.

[kaylon]

Personaly I think Stock 1/18th cars should run 1/18th wheels and tyres and not 1/10th adaptations.

Sure have a Mod class for custom builds...but stock cars should run stock and manufacturers option parts.

J

[peetbee]

Personaly I think Stock 1/18th cars should run 1/18th wheels and tyres and not 1/10th adaptations.

Sure have a Mod class for custom builds...but stock cars should run stock and manufacturers option parts.

J
That's almost what we've got for the 2010/11 nationals. 1/18 class cars can't run TC size wheels, but 1/16 class can (and nothing to stop them running smaller wheels if they want!)

[Danosborne6661]

That's dumb, isn't a need for a control tyre..

[slow bob]

That's dumb, isn't a need for a control tyre..

I AGREE :thumbsup:

[mk2kompressor]

i think no cut and shuts as a general rule but anything else goes:)

coming into a new scale from my normal stuff and feeling in the dark is quite a bit off-putting.
i dont even know if i can run the kit tyres that came with my rc18,what motor/battery combo is still legal and can i use the new exotek chassis that just cost me almost £100:eh?:

[JonMack]

Yeah you can run the kit tyres.
We don't have legal lists for motors/batteries, anything goes in 1/18th (as long as it's 380 size :P)
You can use the Exotek chassis, but if it's the 180/190mm version, you'll be racing in the 1/16th scale at nats.

[c0sie]

i think no cut and shuts as a general rule but anything else goes:)

coming into a new scale from my normal stuff and feeling in the dark is quite a bit off-putting.
i dont even know if i can run the kit tyres that came with my rc18,what motor/battery combo is still legal and can i use the new exotek chassis that just cost me almost £100:eh?:

If you dont know.....just ask :)

In fairness, if I went and looked at buying a Mini-Z today id be in the dark as to what I needed etc.

And bear in mind, we seem to be discussing an idea only afew days after our main AGM.

Daft-ness.

[sldmodels]

Matt, there's some things that are exactly the same, and some are completely different (that's what I've learned going from my normal racing to doing mini-z last year, still haven't managed to make a Stafford meeting this year!)

First off, don't worry about what off-set wheels might cause a problem, as you're either running a buggy shell, or you can trim your truggy shell.

You're also going from on-road to off-road, and thinking about it, there shouldn't be any major differences, and there aren't for the most part, but you do have to re-learn some driving techniques where jumps are concerned (I'm still trying after 3 or so years).

Not sure which "slot" car my shark fits into now either, but i think it's the bigger of the two, so I'd guess 1/16th, so, I might even get my Blaze back up and running, and run it in 18th too, although that means finding 1/18th wheels and tyres for it.

You've got my email address if you want owt, and most people here will offer their 2 cents and helps and advice.

[mk2kompressor]

If you dont know.....just ask :)

In fairness, if I went and looked at buying a Mini-Z today id be in the dark as to what I needed etc.

And bear in mind, we seem to be discussing an idea only afew days after our main AGM.

Daft-ness.

thanks Chris:)
it wasnt a pop or anything, just couldnt find any rules anywhere, JT just sent me them and i called ChrisB this morning that was a great help:thumbsup:
oh and if you want a mini-z just ask:lol:

[JonMack]

I might even get my Blaze back up and running, and run it in 18th too, although that means finding 1/18th wheels and tyres for it.


ebay + ftx blaze = http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FTX-Blaze-LRP-Shark-wheels-and-tyres_W0QQitemZ320519597803QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_T oysGames_RadioControlled_JN?hash=item4aa074eeeb first result

[c0sie]

thanks Chris:)
it wasnt a pop or anything, just couldnt find any rules anywhere, JT just sent me them and i called ChrisB this morning that was a great help:thumbsup:
oh and if you want a mini-z just ask:lol:

Once the official rules are completed and finalised they will be released by the Section Secretary for all to view.

[mk2kompressor]

:blush:
wont it be those rules with the updates added from the meeting?
sorry for any upset ive caused

[c0sie]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Instead of trashing JT or getting your panties in a wad, Cris-sy, how about getting off your arse and get your own rules finalized and completed and stop dilly-dallying or deflecting from the fact of being slow. :thumbdown:

Oh Rob...really? Does this have anything to do with you?

I strongly doubt it.

[c0sie]

Rob, you really have no idea!

Talking of personal attacks...whats with the "Cris-sy"? Do you really think that is appropriate?

I dont really see that anything has been "flipped on me". The fact that our Section Secretary has not released the rules to the public does not mean that she needs to "get off her arse" because she is too slow...but thats a great attitude to have towards the people that make our Section and scene what it is.

Really Rob, you do yourself no favours whatsoever and its getting tiresome. Unless you have any genuine intention of racing within our National Series next season (which would be interesting seeing as you dont race at the USA Micro Nats) then I see no reason why this has anything to do with you at all?

[GirlyRCRacer]

**** :)

[c0sie]

Rob,

Im leaving this now, its very tedious and counter-productive.
:rolleyes:

[sldmodels]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Instead of trashing JT or getting your panties in a wad, Cris-sy, how about getting off your arse and get your own rules finalized and completed and stop dilly-dallying or deflecting from the fact of being slow. :thumbdown:

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[c0sie]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Oh thanks for that Sarah, that helps bunches.

You'll notice that I have tried answering all your questions, posting where appropriate to help with your questions and concerns....and you feel the need to post a load of "thumbs up" in response to Robs reply basically saying that I am too slow?

Did you read Ursula's reply prior to that where she says that she is responsible for posting the rules and is finalising them at the moment?

Ill pass your thoughts and comments on to her Sarah.

[sldmodels]

Further to you phone call of 1 minute ago, I though Rob's posting was to the point and quite funny, which is why I posted some smiley face, it seems that most people can post smiley faces in response to posts without getting banned from a forum, so that's what I did.

Rob didn't say for Urs to get off her arse and get the rules sorted, he directed that comment to yourself. Urs has only just started in the job, and I'm sure she's working her best in her new position.

I try not to dig the comments directed towards me as personal, and those that are just come from idiots anyway, try to do the same Chris, you'll be a lot happier as a result.

BTW Chris, my mobile number is for friends and customers, at present, you are neither.

[espana]

remember,maybe rocketrob and sdl models av a love child!!!!.so its always goin to be 2-V-1.hey rr,still waiting to see these 2 u.s.national trophies:woot:

[JonMack]

So these control tyres... :woot:

[DCM]

**popcorn time**

[espana]

thats funny cos i remember u putting dcm in sexy underwear.think ur drinking a bit 2 much cornwine.u got a short memory:o

[espana]

rr,still waiting 4 them fotos of ur 2 u.s.nationals.cum on dont be bashfull:yawn:

[espana]

u posted it matey,so it is u that thought about it!!!.i do av an imagination thou,not a good 1 thou.u sat there in ur string vest,chewing corn with ur sister sat on ur knee.wheres that popcorn

[espana]

muy bien(very good)donde es el dos copas(where r ur 2 trophies)

[espana]

rr got 2 go,footy is on in 10 mins and got no popcorn left.also kept u off other sections on this forum 4 a while.still looking at ur own sister!!!,we all understand:eh?:.dont keep posting is spanish,as the others cant read it.pics of 2 trophies yet(dont think so)

[rcracer]

This thread seems to be full of pointless posts that have nothing to do with the thread topic...:thumbdown:.....stick to the topic guys and play nicely

[zeebra]

rocketrob you seem to do the same thing all the time mate.you go on a section with the intension of winding people up,then when someone has a go back at you,you bite and snap back at them.you always want to turn the topic into an arguement but you always come out of it worse.g/day cobber.

[mk2kompressor]

Ahem


Anyway,just bought a few different tyres to try
I'm liking the look of the losi step pins,proline road rage and bow ties :)
anyone tried any of the above on carpet?

[JonMack]

I didn't think proline made tyres to fit on micros?

[ashleyb4]

http://hurri.kean.edu/dept/faculty/cletus.gif

[peetbee]

Ahem


Anyway,just bought a few different tyres to try
I'm liking the look of the losi step pins,proline road rage and bow ties :)
anyone tried any of the above on carpet?
I've tried the bow ties on an rc18 and from memory they gripped a little too well on carpet (grip roll) but on the polished floor/wood they were appalling, the standard tyres offered the best compromise accross the different surfaces.
Depends on your local track though, if it's all carpet they could be the way to go.
Although, I haven't tried the other tyres you've got.

[c0sie]

Chris,

The standard RC18T pins will work very very well on carpet for sure.

Back in the "good ol' days" when the RC18T was at the fore front of micro racing we all used to run the standard pins front and back on carpet :)

The added advantage is that there is little to trim off if you want to tune the handling of the car using the tyres :)

[rocketrob]

rr got 2 go,footy is on in 10 mins and got no popcorn left.also kept u off other sections on this forum 4 a while.still looking at ur own sister!!!,we all understand:eh?:.dont keep posting is spanish,as the others cant read it.pics of 2 trophies yet(dont think so)

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8288/loseriz.jpg

I see no point in trying to respond to someone in which English is their second language, and thus can't write a cohesive sentence or isn't somehow else making a weird off-topic personal reference.
And I see no reason to defend my race record against someone that has won NOTHING!

[Matisse]

Ahem


Anyway,just bought a few different tyres to try
I'm liking the look of the losi step pins,proline road rage and bow ties :)
anyone tried any of the above on carpet?

step pins are great, and will prob provide the best balance between the carpet and slippy.

the bow ties will be great if we end up on a dirt track this year, but seem to be lacing i grip on the slippy sections.

road rage, never tried em, but if they behave like the losi street meats then they will be a pretty good balance on oth surfaces.

[rcracer]

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8288/loseriz.jpg


you just dont get it do you..if your not going to post something constructive then dont post at all, ive been keeping a eye on this thread and you have just started again for no reason and then report posts yourself.

[espana]

would i be better with the wider 18t tyres on the front of my 18b,or stick with the original 18b narrow ones?.

[c0sie]

The thinner fronts will make it feel a little more 'direct' i'm led to believe, however bear in mind that the thinner tyres seem to have a harder sidewall which can promote understeer :)

[peetbee]

would i be better with the wider 18t tyres on the front of my 18b,or stick with the original 18b narrow ones?.
I always felt that I had a touch too much steering with the wider tyres but some understeer with the narrow.
I'd much rather have too much!

[sldmodels]

I don't know what inserts I'm currently running on my Shark, as I ripped them out of some RP30BGL's, but was wondering what was good? I've got plenty of white and yellow rally blocks now, and some grey schuey inserts (they sent me 5 rather than the 40 I ordered, so I'm guessing they either made a mistake, or only had 5 in stock).

[JonMack]

I run blue inserts in mine, but the grey moulded inserts are apparently top notch.

[espana]

after being pm-ed by someone, i only then realised that i "espana" had been sending offensive post to rocketrob.after a email to rob explaining what had happened he accepted my apology and just asked me to do a kwik post here.i also believe sdlmodels was mentioned as well,sorry again.this is the 2nd time this as happened,the 1st one being on a coon cat thread.i think it is only fair that if any mod reads this i would be grateful if they could delete me from there members list,so espana cannot post again.on a personal note i only look on oople in the "for sale" section and the "1/18th" section.so from now on i will just stick to uk-microrc.many regards-eddie:blush:

[sldmodels]

No need to restrict yourself to one forum or one section. Change your password if you think someone else has access to your account, which it sounds like it is (ps it's sld, not sdl - have some people even thinking it's sod. Made me think I should be doing a sodoff offer - You buy one, you can sod-off, I say you buy one etc.)