Tamiya F104 Pro v 3Racing F1-09

[Chequered Flag Racing]

pro's & con's for each model, please list

[lochness42]

Didn't run F104, but I did one race with F1'09. For first ever outing with it, ran nicely. I had to add some weight in rear to have enough traction out of corners (we had to dry track before the race a bit, so there wasn't traction at all), but that will be the same with F104. I guess F1'09 is good choice as you can get wide range of F103 wheels and tires (which are also wider than F104 wheels I belive). Oh and F1'09 is also priced very reasonable IMO.

Just to clarify things, I don't own any F1, but one guy bought 13 F1s (there are F1'09, F103, F104 and some 6wheels Tyrrells from Tamiya) and he lends them for some fee complete with electronics apart from receiver. F104 didn't make it to the track so far. As I said this was first F1'09 in my hands that made it to the track. We ran F103 before.

Oh and I hope it makes any sense.

[DCM]

F104 is probably the better car, but you are paying through the nose for it, F109, you add CRC 12th roll springs and a Tamiya yellow TC spring to the centre shock, and you are away, they have also brought out a carbon chassis, better diff and front end stuff.

[lochness42]

If I would have to choose which one to buy - 3racing would be my choice.

[qatmix]

I have both, I would honestly say that the f109 is a much better buy. The F104 pro is very nice but it is quite skittish out of the box. Although they have made a new super traction rear T-bar so that might help. Also even though its a pro kit, Tamiya doesn't include Alloy motor mounts in the kit so you will really need them.

One negative is that the tyres are not std F1 ones so you will have a more limited choice.

The F109 has lots of the essential hop-ups in the box, although you should buy the Alloy caster block and its a good idea to buy either the alloy front uprights or some Tamiya ones as the kit ones are quite soft (which makes them near indestructible but also a pain if you want to adjust camber). Also the F109 can take all f103 etc hop-ups and tyres so you can run a wide range of tyres..

We run brushless (13t) and lipos in our F1's at our club which has a small and tight circuit.

As a curve ball the Tech racing F1 is very smart, its somewhere between the F109 and the F104. One has appeared at our club and its dialed straight out of the box! (these are about £150 from rc mart)

They are all nice cars but for the price the f109 is great.. (And thats from a Tamiya fanatic)

[dubbera]

******

[dubbera]

Does anyone know if you can put the Tamiya Ferrari F1-60 body shell onto the F1-09??

[peetbee]

How about the HPI Formula Ten? That looks interesting for £95

I have to admit I would loooove to get this:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4268455461_edeaa3d243_o_d.jpg

Just can't justify it for the lack of use it would get

[hashiriya]

Does anyone know if you can put the Tamiya Ferrari F1-60 body shell onto the F1-09??

You'll probably find that the 3 racing F-109 is too wide for the tamiya F60 body to fit.

[sldmodels]

Everyone I've spoken to seems to prefer (or think) the f109 is the better car (this coming from die-hard Tamiya fans too). Remember though, that the f109 is essentially a 103 with all the possible upgrades on it, and the 103 is a 15 year old car now. Having said that, theres nothing on the cnar to make you think 103. The only thing you have to remember with is to make sure the rods are spot on the right size, otherwise it will drift to one side, and apparently, the center shaft should be filled with the hardest shock oil possible, but I've never gotten mine to work properly, so going back to my 201 with the upgraded 3racing chassis.

[lochness42]

How about the HPI Formula Ten? That looks interesting for £95

Better get 3racing. Much better value you get for your money. I've built one and ran. Don't want to do so, unless I get one with ball diff, ballbearings, centre oil filled shock, foams and exotek chassis. Out of the box car is really bad and needs many hop ups. You can't really even use stock tyres - they are more suitable for drift car.

[lochness42]

You'll probably find that the 3 racing F-109 is too wide for the tamiya F60 body to fit.

Has same battery layout so might not.

[lochness42]

Everyone I've spoken to seems to prefer (or think) the f109 is the better car (this coming from die-hard Tamiya fans too). Remember though, that the f109 is essentially a 103 with all the possible upgrades on it, and the 103 is a 15 year old car now. Having said that, theres nothing on the cnar to make you think 103. The only thing you have to remember with is to make sure the rods are spot on the right size, otherwise it will drift to one side, and apparently, the center shaft should be filled with the hardest shock oil possible, but I've never gotten mine to work properly, so going back to my 201 with the upgraded 3racing chassis.

I'm getting slightly used F109. F103 is really hard to get and they need some upgrades out of the box anyway (I've seen guy here having to tighten motor few times a run - I had screwdriver in my pocket for that reason, due to used materials on motor mount).

[DaveG28]

Sorry to cast around for sale items like a pikey, but I had a 104 and various hopups for sale if anyone is interested, posted in for sale thread a few days ago....would happily lower prices to get rid!!

[hashiriya]

Has same battery layout so might not.

Even though they both have vertical battery mount, the F109 has much wider chassis bottom deck.

[RobW]

Thinking about getting a couple of F109s for my son and I to run at the BRCA F1/GT championships.

They look cheap - what hop ups do I really need? Going to be on carpet and probably going to be in the slower brushed motor class (as it is too wide for the brushless class) so hoping the FRP chassis will cope. From above front uprights need replacing plus not keen on friction dampers so probably look at replacing that plus some aluminum motor mounts but these are available fairly cheap.

Assume kit tyres are useless? They usually are.

Anyone run one on carpet with any advice.

Thanks

Rob

[Chequered Flag Racing]

not keen on friction dampers so probably look at replacing that plus some aluminum motor mounts but these are available fairly cheap.

If your talking about the 3racing F109 it comes with a cross damper like the 12th pancars use and it has an alloy motor pod

They look cheap - what hop ups do I really need?
Alloy castor bracket as the kit one breaks to easily

hoping the FRP chassis will cope.
it's fine


Assume kit tyres are useless? They usually are.
there OK, just use addy on the rear and a little on the front if needed just like 12th

[Chequered Flag Racing]

happy reading all

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/318689-3racing-f109.html

[RobW]

Cheers -thanks for info - struggling to see any real bad points about car especially considering the price.

Maybe I'll leave reading the 98 page thread until I get home though :)

Rob

[sldmodels]

For the price of it, you'd assume it'd be rubbish, but it's all the possibl "hop-ups" 3racing could think of for the old F103. You definitely want one of these http://os.3racing.hk/products.php?products_key=2737 and I think there's one or two other things, but I can't think of them right now. The kit tyres are actually quite good though

[Chequered Flag Racing]

struggling to see any real bad points about car especially considering the price.

The Diff :(
Each time you change the rear foams you need to reset the diff each time

King Pins
e-clips are easily lost and then you lose the spring also

a fix for the above
2DHvwzOpu7c

[boultspeed]

Cheers -thanks for info - struggling to see any real bad points about car especially considering the price.

Maybe I'll leave reading the 98 page thread until I get home though :)

Rob


hey Rob F1's are racing at Ardent raceway this Sunday if youre anywhere nearby it would be worth a look :thumbsup:

[watfordtrackwarrior]

Thinking about getting a couple of F109s for my son and I to run at the BRCA F1/GT championships.

They look cheap - what hop ups do I really need? Going to be on carpet and probably going to be in the slower brushed motor class (as it is too wide for the brushless class) so hoping the FRP chassis will cope. From above front uprights need replacing plus not keen on friction dampers so probably look at replacing that plus some aluminum motor mounts but these are available fairly cheap.

Assume kit tyres are useless? They usually are.

Anyone run one on carpet with any advice.

Thanks

Rob
change the spur for a tamiya 103 64dp one and use a bearing insteaad of the pathetic plastic spacer in the kit stock spur is rubbish in my opinion rest of car is gr8:thumbsup:

[ch!3f]

alittle off subject but i have an f103 second hand was ballraced and a trf shock fitted and can not knock it grips well on tarmac had some high speed crashes and not broken it yet and 1 was full on in to a curb at full pelt.

if you can get a tamiya get 1 less bits to brake as the f109 is well loaded with bits n bobs to tune it. which can get bent broken or knocked off in a crash.

the diff on the f103 is easy to set just do it tight and loosen half a turn and is smashing.

[terry.sc]

The Diff :(
Each time you change the rear foams you need to reset the diff each time

King Pins
e-clips are easily lost and then you lose the spring also



It depends on what you do the most.
Running the F109 kit diff you can adjust the diff settings easily, but you have to adjust the diff settings each time you swap tyres. The better option if you aren't replacing tyres all the time, fit the Tamiya one piece thrust bearing (part number 53136) and you'll struggle to get the F104 diff as smooth. It's also a lot easier and quicker to adjust, to tighten a slipping diff takes a couple of seconds pulling over at the side of the track, with the F104 style it's back to the pits.
The F104 or F109 externally adjustable diffs mean you can change tyres without having to reset your diff settings, but you do have to remove the wheel and end cap if you want to adjust the diff settings so you can't tweak the diff settings in practice by just pulling in and turning the nut.

And considering the most often reason most people go near the diff is to change the spur gear the F103/F109 style is much quicker to replace and much simpler to reset the diff again.

The F104 style diff is only necessary if you change your tyres every race or two, or you run at several clubs and have to run different tyres at each club.
I've run the kit diff, the external adjustable diff and the Tamiya F104 diff. I've gone back to the kit diff with the Tamiya thrust race as I find it more user friendly, the only downside is if I have to take the wheel off to set gear mesh I have to reset the diff, but as it can be checked and adjusted while warming up for the next race I've never found it a problem.



E clips are also a problem, they fly off the kingpin at the slightest knock. If you use Tamiya steering knuckles grub screw them to the kingpin so you don't lose anything when the top E clip comes off, which seems to happen much more often than the lower one. When the top e clip comes off if the kingpin is held by the steering block you can usually complete the race as there isn't enough clearance for the upper arm to come off the kingpin. Replacing the E clips with Tamiya ones also seems to keep them on for longer.



Nothing wrong with the kit FRP chassis, in fact it's tougher than the carbon upgrade while generating more grip by being a little bit flexible. The only reason I can think of to fit the carbon chassis is to save weight, although you will usually want to add weight rather than take it off.

Build an F109 as in the kit and use the kit tyres is a good starting setup for carpet, stiffer side springs and front springs sharpen up the handling. The front castor mount (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3RACING-TAMIYA-F103GT-ALUM-FRONT-CASTOR-MOUNT-Ver-2-/200525517302) really wants to be replaced with the alloy upgrade although there are plenty still running fine with the kit one so it's not absolutely necessary and the alloy version seems virtually impossible to find these days.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

change the spur for a tamiya 103 64dp one and use a bearing insteaad of the pathetic plastic spacer in the kit stock spur is rubbish in my opinion rest of car is gr8:thumbsup:

I've seen 48dp which take the bearing on ebay a while back. They may have been made by RW Racing.

[terry.sc]

I've seen 48dp which take the bearing on ebay a while back. They may have been made by RW Racing.
Yes, RW Racing have made them. Don't know if they are a readily available production item but I do know Dez Chand has recently been running them in his F109 and I think he got them direct from RW.

[ch!3f]

Yes, RW Racing have made them. Don't know if they are a readily available production item but I do know Dez Chand has recently been running them in his F109 and I think he got them direct from RW.

demon power products stock them just search rw racing delrin spur gear on google

[Chequered Flag Racing]

demon power products stock them just search rw racing delrin spur gear on google

which one is it as non are listed for the F109?

[ch!3f]

which one is it as non are listed for the F109?

my apologise they dont stock what the f109 or f103 need but if you look on ebay for kawada spur gear ansmann spur gear or 3racing the sell multi fit 1s which will fit


http://inzaneracing.com/bilder/diff4.jpg

also if you search for kawada on demons website it brings up all kawada products they have if you look at the description of the spur gears it tells you if there for pan cars

[dale]

I've seen 48dp which take the bearing on ebay a while back. They may have been made by RW Racing.

They were mine. I bought up all of RWs old stock (they'd been on their shelves since the 90s!), but then sold most of them when the F1 class died at my local track.

RW will make them to order, but they will want a minimum order size (think it might have been 10).

[Chequered Flag Racing]

They were mine. I bought up all of RWs old stock (they'd been on their shelves since the 90s!), but then sold most of them when the F1 class died at my local track.

RW will make them to order, but they will want a minimum order size (think it might have been 10).

thanks Dale

do you what teeth size for 48dp would be popular?

any other spurs that fit the F109 and take the centre bearing?

what's the bearing size again?

[Chequered Flag Racing]

what's the bearing size again?

hopefully this correct

Bearing in mm is 8x12x3.5

http://www.tamiya-store.com/shop/tamiya/1280/sealed/bearing/3piece-p-4305.html (http://www.tamiya-store.com/shop/tamiya/1280/sealed/bearing/3piece-p-4305.html)

Are the kawada / Ansmann spurs metric hole centres or do they use 12th pan car bearing size?

[dale]

hopefully this correct

Bearing in mm is 8x12x3.5

http://www.tamiya-store.com/shop/tamiya/1280/sealed/bearing/3piece-p-4305.html (http://www.tamiya-store.com/shop/tamiya/1280/sealed/bearing/3piece-p-4305.html)

Are the kawada / Ansmann spurs metric hole centres or do they use 12th pan car bearing size?

That's the correct bearing. My spurs were all 70t; that gave a really good range of gearings.

Most other spurs (apart from tamiya ones) have the imperial centre hole so won't take a bearing.

[ch!3f]

you can always try 1 of these if you cant get the right size spur gear.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3RACING-64Pitch-POM-Gear-Ring-TAMIYA-F103RM-11-/380315272921?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588c8e86d9

rather then fitting a bearing its smaller so allows the use of other spur gears.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

RW Spur Gears / F109

Just spoken to RW and they'll need an order of 10 minimum for one size, ie 70 teeth

I'll get them cut if there's enough folk want them and probably go for 48dp / 70 teeth as mentioned by Dale earlier.

Spur Gear only £6.50 posted you'll need to find your own bearing 8mm*12mm*3.5mm

Spur Gear + bearing £7.50 posted

payment can cash, paypal, cheque etc

names below please
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

going to need at last 6 on the list before I place an order

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Looks very likely I'll be getting some 48dp ones cut as I have a request for 17 just from my club.

Getting 48dp rather than 64dp as the drivers at TRCC treat there F1's like Mardave's :woot:

Will leave it till the weekend to see if any more want one and then I'll be in touch with RW to get them machined up