View Full Version : Team Kassanova K2v2
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Teamkassy.png
K2 V2
Almost a year and half later I am revisiting this project. You can find the first one here.. http://teamkassanova.webs.com/k2page1.htm . I had alot of problems with that version and so its time fore a complete redesign.
My goal is to create a buggy which is more durable , has the lowest center of gravity of any 2wd buggy, and to make it handle as good or better than the other factory buggies. Secondary goals include getting it into a magazine and having it be raced at the Ifmar worlds. (Shooting high)
The rear will be made with a Team Magic E4 drive train and suspension mounts along with custom delrin a-arms and ntc3 rear hub carriers. I will be adding a custom slipper clutch in there too. The reason behind the team associated ntc3 hub carriers is for pure durability. My buggy will probably end up being heavier than the others but it will break less and with the new lipo and brushless technology it shouldn't be a huge deal.
Their is a possiblty the I might start by making a simple version first by just using the stock B4 suspension parts and stand up shocks to see how this electronics layout does. But it hasn't been decided wither I will take smaller steps or just go all out.
The chassis will be made out of carbon fiber and have horizontal saddle packs. I am going to be trying to use screws thru-out the whole buggy with the same hex size so I will only have to use one or two wrenchs on it.
Up front I will be using B4 steering and a Gt2 front chassis plate. I wanted to have my front a-arms be stronger than stock B4 a-arms so I will be making beefier custom delrin a-arms (lower and upper) and ntc3 front hub carriers also for durability.
The buggy will feature laydown shocks all around. I am choosing to use laydown shocks because they provide a lower center of gravity, added durability, and a progressive suspension. My current idea is to use revo shocks on the buggy to provide a smoother suspension on the big jumps because of there larger diameter. They may end up being too long though.. in which case I may have to use touring car shocks.
The receiver and esc will be mounted behind the rear axle in a battery box to provide some weight to the rear and to keep all the electronics down the center. They may also be mounted on each side of the chassis.
I also have a highly top-secret innovation I will be using on this buggy.
Here is a Cad drawing I did just to get an idea of spacing and of how it will look and such. The cad drawing definatly isn't done and I will probably just start making actual progress on the buggy instead of finishing the cad drawing. So far I have alot of B4 parts left over from the K2 v1 and have the Nitro Tc3 hubs and Gt2 front plate..and I got a great deal on the E4 parts so those should be here soon and I can start working on drawing up the chassis.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/K2v2cad.jpg
Ethan
BloodClod
23-07-2010, 03:39 AM
Another awesome project. I took a look through your webpage too and out of curiousity, what were the problems you faced with your previous prototype? It did look very good!
Bugle
23-07-2010, 04:46 AM
Hey, good luck with this one, I was following the build of your previous car and wondered recently what you were up to now.
You should finish the CAD drawing first, much better testing all the suspension and drivetrain on the computer than half building it and finding it doesn't work, then having to go back and remake new parts because they need changes.
kedal
23-07-2010, 03:59 PM
Look awesome !
Good luke !!
Another awesome project. I took a look through your webpage too and out of curiousity, what were the problems you faced with your previous prototype? It did look very good!
Well when testing I had alot of different problems with it. Suspension wasn't set-correctly..the geometry made even the stiffest touring car springs feel like mush. Alot of the problems came in the drivetrain.. the rear of the chassis was too flexible creating gear mesh problems and the cvds kept popping out.
Hey, good luck with this one, I was following the build of your previous car and wondered recently what you were up to now.
You should finish the CAD drawing first, much better testing all the suspension and drivetrain on the computer than half building it and finding it doesn't work, then having to go back and remake new parts because they need changes.
Well recently I have been working on a Traxxas 1/8th buggy. Found here..http://teamkassanova.webs.com/evo8.htm I also have been moving a quiet abit . But I have finally settled down and found a job to fund my projects.
I have been teaching myself Solidworks and so its been a trial and error type of thing I haven't grasped the advanced skills to draw a complete car and do tests on it..with my Cad skill level I find it more effective personally to get into the workshop and do trial and error by building.
I received the Revo/Slayer shocks today. I got a good deal on them on ebay only $13 shipped for 4 slightly used shocks.
In version 1 I had a hard time setting up the suspension with the touring car shocks. I'm not sure they where up to the task of offroad car.
I picked Revo shocks because of there large diameter (14mm) and spring selection. Traxxas offers springs for the Revo shocks made for the Revo, Slayer , and Jato. The Revo shocks obviously being the stiffest and the Jato ones being the softest. These are a bit heavier than the stock B4 shocks but not too much. If weight becomes an issue I can always get the plastic Jato shocks.
Here are some comparison pictures. On the far right are B4 shocks, middle are the Revo shocks, and the far left are touring car shocks I used on version one. I may resort back to the touring car shocks if the revo shocks are too heavy or big. But I think the added diameter and new spring choices will help a ton.
Front
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/0723001650.jpg
Rear
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/rearshocks.jpg
Razer
24-07-2010, 03:36 PM
A good choice of shocks would be the ones from the Yokomo Bmax4, check them out! :)
Hmm I will have to look into those.
Got the E4 parts today. I got an amazing deal for $55 shipped. I just have to get a rear E4 diff for it though. The e4 rear end is going to work great on this. The width of the hinge pins is slightly less than the B4. I was able to fit stock b4 a-arms on but the spur gear would hit the front of the a-arm with out modification so it looks like I will definatly have to make new a-arms. I was worried that I would have to make the wheelbase longer because of the lack of the room for the saddle pack but it looks like their will be plenty of room. I'm going to start drawing up the chassis and then I'll make a mock up chassis before I cut it out of some nice carbon. I feel like I almost need to figure out how to make a slipper clutch for this to get that out of the way though becuase thats one of the major hurdles I have to clear. I'll see what I can master mind.
After getting the E4 aluminum parts I have the feeling this is going to end up a sort of "luxury" buggy .
Here are some pictures..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/0724001512a.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/0724001511.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/0724001513a.jpg
kedal
24-07-2010, 09:54 PM
The slipper will be a big issue !
Good luke !
The slipper will be a big issue !
Good luke !
I just talked to a friend of mine who has a lathe and he said he will make me a custom slipper clutch. That solves that problem. :thumbsup:
Garry Driffill
25-07-2010, 03:51 PM
Lots of central weight there should make for good performance, yes? :)
jasonwipf
26-07-2010, 07:38 AM
Nice concept. I had thought of something like this with 1/8th E buggies and why no one had ever done it. I hope you or some manufacturer flies with the compact design. Keep it up!:thumbsup:
Garry: Yes I believe that will help with handling.. the only worry is traction. I will be racing on a clay track so hopefully it will hook up
Jason: Yea the compact electronics make sense to me.. it allows for the car to transition quicker.
I made a mock up chassis out of 1/8" lexan today. This material works great as mock up material because its clear and is very easy to work with. Not to mention inexpensive. The final chassis will of course be made out of 3mm Carbon fiber.
Next I will be working on some mock up a-arms out of 3/8" lexan. The final a-arms will be made out of 8mm thick delrin. To give a comparison b4 front a-arms are almost 7mm thick and the rear a-arms are 8mm thick. Oh yes the nimh packs and mamba motor in the pictures are just for mock up reason.. I will be using a lipo saddle pack and a 13.5 motor.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/downsized_0802001426.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/0802001432.jpg
Got off work early today so I got some progress made. I made the mock-up front a-arms.. they definatly aren't perfect but they will do as mock ups.
I also got a lexan chassis brace done and the quick release battery door done today. I wanted to try something new.. and eveyone is posting everything on youtube these days so I decided to try a video blog of my progress on the buggy.
Please excuse all the "um's'" haha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z76gzu-5Q7s
Here are some pictures:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_1770.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_1771.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_1768.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_1769.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_1773.jpg
Phyro
13-08-2010, 05:15 AM
Looking good man, keep it up.
The Evo8 was cool looking as well
With the fear that my last electronic layout would not have enough rear traction I decided to redesign the chassis and turn the lipo saddle sideways like has been seen in some of the other mid-motor buggies. This pushes more of the battery weight towards the rear and will allow me to squeeze the esc and receiver onto the chassis between the batteries and servo. I think that even though this electronic layout will be similar to other mid-motor buggies their will be many other features that will make it unique.
Today I ordered a 3mm carbon fiber chassis from Rcfoam for $55 shipped. While that is in transit I will be working on trying cut another mock chassis out of lexan just to make sure the drawing is correct. I have moved my deadline to end of December/beginning of January. I want to have some time to test and tune the buggy before the big race that it will be debut at in early February.
Here is the new chassis drawing.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2226.jpg
Ethan
Team Kassanova
Today I received my piece of 3mm Carbon fiber for the main chassis and other parts. I got it from Rcfoam for $55 shipped. Since it is so expensive I'm going to have to be very careful not to mess up when I'm cutting the chassis. I will be cutting it with a hand-held jigsaw. The piece is very stiff and light..so definatly a good quality of carbon fiber. Next I'm going to prep the piece for cutting by covering it with painters tape. I have to make a few double checks on the chassis drawing then it will be ready to be taped to the piece of carbon with packaging tape and then the cutting will begin.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2234.jpg
Change of plans..
I will be cutting the chassis out of 3mm aluminum first becuase of my uncertainty with the amount of traction this mid-motor layout will provide. I don't want to cut a chassis out of carbon then find out I have to redesign it and make another chassis. I will be continuing with the planned layout for now.. I will test it and if it doesn't have enough traction I will try moving half of the saddle pack behind the diff in a custom protective case. During the testing I will be comparing the car to my B4 buggy. If the layout of the B4 seems to be performing better I will go back to a traditional layout with a rear-motor but will still have a laydown suspension, strong a-arms, and hubs, 12mm hexs, etc. Once I'm sure that a certain layout will work then I will end up cutting the chassis out of the carbon fiber
I was able to cut and drill the chassis yesterday. I think it turned out pretty good. With some more filing I think it will work nicely for testing.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2236.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2238.jpg
I have been hurrying to get my design for the a-arms finalized so that I can 3d print them at school before Christmas break. I am pretty close.. have a few small changes but this is what they will look like. When they are 3d printed the parts that are thick will actually be skinnier then they look. I had to make them pretty thick in area's becuase ABS plastic isn't the strongest stuff. I might eventually look at getting them milled out of delrin. But I'm hoping these will hold up.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/a-armspicture.jpg
Why not use arms that are already available?
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXYWY8&P=7
J.M: I have looked into useing those a-arms. Unfortunatly they are way too wide at the bulkhead for the B4 bulkhead and the rear E4 a-arm mounts. I was considering finding some bulkheads that would work but there's all kinds of problems that come up with using those a-arms. With making my own a-arms I have a lot of flexibility and can make them work perfectly with my design.
Talked to my Tech ed teacher today about the cnc mill we have at the school. He said it can do plastic and it appears to be 3-axis. They just haven't done alot with it becuase its brand new and they haven't had a ton of time to work with the programs and such.. so their is a possibility that if I can learn how to program the mill I can make milled delrin parts which would be alot stronger then Abs 3d printed parts AND stronger then composite a-arms such as the one's found on the B4. I'll have to look into this possibility more seriously.
I gave my teacher my Solidworks drawing for the rear a-arms and he is going to print one of them early next week so I can make sure it fits.
Today I got a lipo cradle done. The car will have a upper chassis so the battery is going to be slid in thru the side and the upper chassis will hold it down. I'm going to be making a quick release battery door such as the one I made earlier on with my original design.The esc and receiver look like they will fit perfectly right behind the servo. I cut the cradle slightly to large around the edges around the chassis so after I get it bolted to the chassis I will use the aluminum chassis as a guide and cut the over-hang off with the scroll saw for a nice even edge.
I think it will look much nicer when installed on the final Carbon chassis.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2240.jpg
A mock rear a-arm was printed today so see if everything fits. Their are a few small changes I need to make with the spacing and sizes of the holes but for the most part it turned out great. The finish surface isn't the smoothest in some spots but with a slight amount of sanding it became smooth. I'm also think I will make the center section of the a-arm thicker since I don't think its quiet wide enough.
I'm going to get a final drawing done of the rear a-arms and get the front a-arm design ready for printing too. A nice feature about the a-arms are they can be used on either the right or left so I don't have to have as many spares.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2246.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2243.jpg
JonMack
14-12-2010, 12:53 PM
That looks absolutely awesome.
Thanks Jonmack
Even though I was supposed to be studying for a math test today I decided to dedicate sometime to the project.
I knew when I started this project that I would have to find some way to put a slipper clutch on this since their is no factory slipper clutch for the E4.. though why would their its an on-road car. Since this is an off-road car it has to have a slipper clutch.
After looking at different factory slipper clutches I realized I would have to design and build my own. I attempted to make one a couple months ago out of a cut up tc3 aluminum center drive shaft. Everything was going good until I had to thread the threaded rod into the aluminum piece. I used a drill to thread the threaded rod in the aluminum but soon realized the hole was too small. The threaded rod ended up breaking off in the aluminum shaft and the hours of filing went to waste
Today I successfully made a slipper clutch out of a aluminum rod I picked up at Home Depot. I spent a few hours "latheing" it down in certain spots by throwing it into the drill press and using a file. I also had to file flat spots in it so the B4 slipper plates would fit.
Overall it came out awesome and this has to be one of the nicest pieces I have ever made. Now I won't have to worry about this project coming to dead end becuase their is no slipper clutch.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2273.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2274.jpg
(I still have to file the motor hole in the chassis)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2278.jpg
The winter break has given me an opportunity to get some pretty substantial progress made. I also received the parts I need for the rest of the build.
I started by building and installing the E4 diff. This required me to cut a hole under the diff so it can sit fully. While I was at it fully mounted the motor mount and filed the motor slot in the chassis. I currently don't have the diff in the buggy so that I can test the suspension (The a-arm doesn't work with the diff atm)
After I got the diff installed and started working on trying to figure out a way to mount the rocker posts for the laydown suspension. I decided on making a custom mount out of 3/8" lexan. With my drill press this was a much easier task then it has been in the past with my hand drill. I measured the angle of the rocker posts on my Evo8 project (Slayer buggy) and matched it. I had to cut a channel in the center of the mount for the belt to go thru.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2298.jpg
After I got that all mounted up I moved on to cutting the upper chassis out of 1/8" aluminum. At this point I took a break and decided to do some electrical work so that I could make the center upper chassis.
My Promatch Saddle battery packs don't have built in bullet connectors but I like how clean bullet connectors are. So I came up with a solution using Dean connections. I will let a picture speak for this modification.
I also used packaging tape to tape the saddles together to make it easier to slide the battery in the buggy.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2289.jpg
After I cut the battery done I was able to cut the center part of the upper deck out of 1/4" lexan. I had to cut slots out of the lexan for the deans to pass thru as the battery slides into place. I then got the shocks mounts made and mounted them. I made it so I can easily adjust the shocks forward and backwards.
Anyway... the pictures explain everything much more clearly. I haven't been able to take all the paper off of the Lexan becuase I still need to cut down the center upper chassis. I think it will look good once all the paper is off.
Remember all the aluminum plate parts will be replaced with Carbon down the road.
On to the pics...
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2284.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2292.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2295.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2301.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2304.jpg
Oh and a quick picture of the workshop in its current state haha.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2305.jpg
wooow, what an awsome idea!! keep on building like that you have cool ideas =)
Thanks man
I have set a deadline for the aluminum proto to done by...
No later January 21st.
ok, so hury up !!
Whats missing ītill now?? mainly the front end ?? anything more??
kaszal
06-01-2011, 12:44 PM
This is really interesting... proper engineering. I'll be following. Good luck.
Till: I'm trying to hurry but between school (finals are coming up) , work (mcdonalds), and my girlfriend its tough. As far as whats left... here is my to-do list..
Straighten out upper deck
Trim chassis braces
Mount front upper deck
Draw/cut/mount front shock mounts
Straighten out upper a-arm mount
Mount rear Turnbuckles
Mount front/rear a-arms
Mount front/rear hub carriers
Make lexan upper a-arms
Mount pushrods
Make custom cvd bones
Mount steering turnbuckles
Make wing mount
Make rear bumper
Install electronics
Trim/make body
Paint body
Mount body
Make diff cover
Basically a lot of small stuff.. most of it shouldn't take too long.
13 days left..
kaszal: Thanks for the comments I will keep you guys updated. I'm hoping to get some work done on it tomorrow after work.
B4power
08-01-2011, 02:16 PM
Wow,
this build is incredible!!! It kinda has the same electronic layout as The Team Losi 22.
Can't wait to see the end result!!! What body will go on there?
ok, sounds like the normal problem: making everyone happy,as best as possible ^^
good luck for school finals, but as we can see in technical subjects you shouldnīt need it =)
nice work !!
rcjunky
08-01-2011, 07:42 PM
Wow,
this build is incredible!!! It kinda has the same electronic layout as The Team Losi 22.
Can't wait to see the end result!!! What body will go on there?
nothing like the 22, more like the cougar if you wanted to compare it to anything
B4power: Thanks man. I will be narrowing a Jconcepts B4 body to put on it. I was thinking about putting a 22 body on it... but I believe that could be slightly too narrow.
Till: ah this is true. So hard to please everyone AND do what I want.
Thanks.
Rcjunky: I would have to agree. My original electronic layout.. was quiet similar to the 22 though. But, I think that this is quiet different then any other car on the market.
I've been working on the front end recently. I got the chassis stiffeners trimmed and took the paper off of them. I believe with this design their might be a possibility of having adjustable chassis flex.. by adding or taking away vertical posts in between the two vertical plates.
I also got the front upper chassis done. I got a B4 steering rack mounted on it. I was trying to decide between the Gt2 steering rack and B4 steering rack. I decided on the B4 rack because it seems to me that it would create better steering geometry since the width of the buggy will be far less then a Gt2. Also got the rocker posts mounted onto this upper deck.
I also mounted some risers to connect the bulkhead to the upper chassis. They extend past the upper chassis because on top of it will be a bulkhead for the upper a-arms. I have to have upper a-arms because of the pivot ball suspension.
(I obviously have alot of countersinking to do... my favorite..:rolleyes:)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2310.jpg
Next up I will be working on mounting the front shocks and rockers. I got the final Solidworks drawing of the Front and Rear a-arms ready for 3d printing and I should have those either monday or tuesday.
12 days till until aluminum prototype deadline!
nice front end !!
I count 6 days now and no update ?? hurry up I wanna see more :p
Here's an update for you =p I will be rapidly giving you guys up dates over the next few days.. I will indeed meet the deadline for this stage and test this friday =)
This is my last week to complete the aluminum prototype. That way I will have enough time to get everything tested and finalized before its debut in the second week of February.
I got the printed a-arms from my teacher and they came out nice.. I miss calculated the length.. they of course where to short.. so I lengthened them by adding spacers to the ends which are screwed into the ends of the a-arms. This will put the total width with wheels to about 248mm perfect since legal width is 250mm. With the new a-arms I was able to mount the rear turnbuckles.
Once that was done I moved back to the front. I completed the upper a-arm mount. I made it using some 1/8" lexan.. it will be replaced with carbon after the first few tests. I then was able to mount the front a-arms and custom made some upper a-arms out of 1/4" lexan. Lastly, I installed the steering links and put the rockers on. For the front basically I just have some finishing touches like counter sinking, installing matching hardware, adjusting toe and chamber, and I also need to mount the front shocks.
I think its coming along very well. I believe I will be able to finish this stage of the build by this Thursday and will take it to the track for testing on Friday. I will be looking for mainly wither or not the car has enough traction and if the a-arms are holding up. If it has enough traction I will cut a Carbon chassis for it and also an upper chassis. So far so good. I think once I get the full finished product done with all the carbon it will look great.
5 days left!!
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2338.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2343.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2347.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2364.jpg
cooper_xl
18-01-2011, 12:26 AM
Looking great. It's awesome you could fit in there...waiting for Friday and/or weekend track test
Thanks
I'm sorry for the late up-date.. Monday my girlfriend wanted to spend some "quality" time together.. soo I had to leave my project for awhile. Yesterday was a frustrating day.. I spent about 5 hours working on what turned out to be the hardest parts to make of the whole project...custom cvd bones.
From the last version of this buggy I learned that I could make custom length cvd bones by cutting the drive shaft in half then "fusing" the two halfs together with a lexan tube. With this version custom cvd bones where mandatory because the E4 diff requires E4 cvd ends.. and the axles I'm using require standard Associated cvd ends.
I started by cutting the E4 cva's and the Associated Cvd's to correct lengths. That wasn't too hard. I was thinking oh sweet this is going well..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2373-2.jpg
Everything was going good until I came to what proved to be the tough part.. I cut a rectangle out of 1/4" lexan about an inch long and then attempted to drill a straight hole all the way thru it. This proved to be difficult even for my drill press :weird: After probaly 5 or 7 or 10! attempts this way I decided I should try 3/8" lexan. I ditched the drill press and used a hand drill. After a couple attempts I was able to get it right. I then used a vise to quickly press each end of the cvd bone into each end. The hole in the plastic is smaller then the cvd ends.. this makes it so when you force the cvd end into the hole... (Get your head out of the gutter!) :ha: The plastic heats up and then bonds to the metal.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2377-2.jpg
And the finished product.... (I will probably file them a bit more) They aren't pretty and aren't perfect but I'm 99% sure they will work great.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2397-2.jpg
Some other small things I got done is a transponder mount and a dirt cover for the diff. I think the weight of the club transponder could help with traction. Hey.. every gram counts. The dirt cover isn't pretty but I think it should help keep some of the dirt out. And it will be hidden for the most part.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2390-2.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2380-2.jpg
Yesterday was a pretty tough day in the workshop.. but I got the hard stuff out of the way. The workshop is quiet abit of mess.. sorta is a representation of how the day went.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2416-1.jpg
Because of my set-backs.. I'm not sure I will get to test on friday but I will meet my deadline of friday. Testing might have to wait till Sunday.
Time for bed.
So guys I got the aluminum proto-version of this buggy done tonight. Remeber.. this prototype is just for testing and tuning. After initial testing and tuning I will be making a Carbon chassis and doing a lot of nice finishing touches to it to make it look really good.
I have it all wired up and ready to go.. actually tonight I took it outside and ran it down the street and checked out how the traction was and how the steering and suspension was working. Everything is working pretty good for the first drive. The suspension is a bit stiff and needs some tuning but thats pretty easy to take care of. The turning and steering work great. I feel like it actually handles well. Traction on asphalt was great but we will have to see how it does on clay. What I'm really happy about is the Slipper clutch and the transmission. Everything with that is working great and it is very quiet. My custom cvds have held up so far.
I'm very excited to take it to the track for the first time. I won't get much time but what I will be looking for mainly is wiether or not it has enough traction and also the durability of the a-arms. I will also be taking notes about the suspension, steering, and over all handling.
Any way here are some pics.. sorry no on-body pictures until I' done with the final prototype :p
Oh and yes I am aware that I need to adjust the Chamber on the back. and that I also need to lower the wing. Its way too high.. for some reason I have the hardest time with wings on my projects.. stupid buggies
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2418.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2427.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2428.jpg
I will update you guys tomorrow night with out the track testing goes =)
cooper_xl
23-01-2011, 09:58 AM
It's going well, for the looks of it...You need a lathe to make straight holes without fuss
Itīs an awsome car !!!! Very very nice work!
What about an application to Team Asso or Team Losi as an Constructor :P
Keep on going like that and stay hat creative!!
cheers
I wish I had a lathe.. that would make things alot easier
Till: thanks haha I actually am going to college for Mechanical Engineering and do plan on applying for a mechanical engineering job at Losi and Associated down the road.
Unfortunately, today was not such a good day at the track.. within the first minute or two a front a-arm broke. I accidently ran into a pipe and I didn't feel like it hit it very hard at all. But the a-arm broke around the hinge pin hole so these 3d printed a-arms are definatly not strong enough to be used.
I put another a-arm on but the same thing happened just as quickly. http://www.rctech.net/forum/classic_images/smilies/frown.gif
It was hard to tell how the traction was but it seemed to have quiet abit. Everything else I wasn't really able to test becuase I only got to drive it for a couple minutes.
So it was a waste of time.. but its definatly better to work out these things now then race day.
However I did weigh it at the track...ready to run it weighed in at 1805 grams. So about 300grams heavier then the minimum. This is definatly something I'm going to be wanting to lower. I think a carbon chassis will help.
What now? well I have to figure out a way to make new a-arms out of a stronger material. I'm thinking about making "hybrid" a-arms by cutting up B4 a-arms and bolting them to 3/8" lexan pieces that determine the length and hold the pivot balls. The other option is to attempt to cut them out of 3/8" lexan or delrin. Making a-arms is pretty hard to do accurately.. perhaps I will find some place to mill them out of delrin...
I'm not sure.. but what I do know is that time is ticking and I need to get this thing back out on the track.
Came up with a solution for the weak front arms. These unfortunately won't be stronger then B4 front a-arms.. but they will be just as durable. Plus I can stock up on modified B4 front a-arms if B4 part of these a-arms break then I just transfer the custom lexan piece to the other a-arm and bolt them together. I don't think the lexan part will break its 3/8" So this is basically like having the parts availability of the B4 a-arms.. but pivot ball suspension. Perhaps I should have just started out with this idea instead of keeping it as my plan B.
I'm still trying to figure out an alternative for the rear a-arms but they might just have to stay 3D printed.. I think they might actually be durable enough as they are.
Here are the new front a-arms..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2434.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2444.jpg
I will be going back to the track tomarrow.. I'm hoping that I will have much better results.
adam lancia
25-01-2011, 12:06 PM
Cool solution, well done.
ryanlownie
25-01-2011, 12:26 PM
The thicker a-arms you designed probably don't flex anywhere near as much as most a-arms on other cars do. An impact will of course just snap the arm.
If you designed them with less material so they actually flexed more, they surely would be more durable.
Cool project though, great seeing all the different stages.
rcjunky
25-01-2011, 02:08 PM
I think the printed arms won't be strong enough regardless what you do, abs is just too brittle, delrin or aluminum is what you want, or just use conventional arms of something else
I think the printed arms won't be strong enough regardless what you do, abs is just too brittle, delrin or aluminum is what you want, or just use conventional arms of something else
I think your right the lexan parts at the whole car might be too brittle, especially at the (front and rear) A Arms.
Where would you buy Delrin??? are there online shops where I could get it ?!?
gon on with this build, i like it !!!!!!!!!!
Ry: I agree with rcjunky.. no matter what I do to the ABS a-arms they won't be strong enough.
Rcjunky: I'm thinking aluminum is out of the question as I can't mill it, down the line Delrin could be considered but becuase of my budget and time limit I'm going to have to settle with 3/8" lexan.
Till: The parts that are very weak are the white ABS a-arms. Lexan is not brittle at all and will be used for new rear a-arms.
Over here in the states Delrin is easy to come by on the internet I don't know about across the pond.. it also goes by the name of Acetal.
Unfortunately, I was unable to go to the track today for testing. Last night I decided to set up a small jump outside to see if the 3d printed rear a-arms would hold up. Of-course they didn't hold up for more then one jump. They broke at the hinge pin very easily. I can't put modified B4 a-arms in the rear because of the stupid spur gear. So I'm going to have to make my own a-arms out of 3/8" lexan :( I have work tomarrow and thursday after school so I won't be able to make the a-arms until friday or saturday. I'm not looking forward to making these a-arms...as a-arms are very difficult to make because drilling a straight hinge pin hole in every direction is quiet difficult. Anyway hoping to test Sunday.
I also ordered alot of stuff for this buggy.. so that stuff should be here in a couple days. I will post of picture of what I got. I also plan to cut the carbon parts soon.
16 days till the debut!! (Feb 11)
rcjunky
26-01-2011, 12:08 PM
what do you have for software? I know someone who can CNC those arms pretty easily if you have a cad programe so he'd just need to run the programe, it would cost ya but for something like that if wouldn't be too much. unfortunatly a regular non-cnc mill won't really work for those do to the shape, although I'm going to make a chassis on it and I've already made a steel front arm for my losi
dodgydiy
28-01-2011, 10:52 PM
find yourself some 6mm or maybe slightly thicker nylon sheet for those front arms, really strong and durable, will absorb impact as it flexes slightly, threads well too, not easiest to cut or machine but the extra time is worth it as i doubt you would need to make any spares! oh and it takes dye really well.
rcjunky: I use Solidworks. Since of my tight deadling I don't believe I will be able to have someone mill some a-arms for me at the moment. Maybe after the debut.
dodgydiy: I think nylon could be pretty strong. I think Delrin/Acetal would probaly work well too. Its just right now I have a tight deadline and I have some 3/8" lexan laying around so that's what I'll be using.
I got the new lexan rear a-arms finished and mounted up today. They actually weren't as hard as I thought they were going to be to make. I'm going to do some quick durability testing tonight and if everything goes well then tomorrow is a track test. They aren't the prettiest.. but I think they will do. I personally think they look better then the white ones..as far as the color goes and they should be a ton stronger
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2450.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2455.jpg
I also started cutting out the carbon main chassis today since it was pretty warm out No pictures of that yet.:sneaky:
Today's track test went aton better than the first time I took it to the track. This time it actually ran for more then a minute. Actually I was at the track for about 2 and a half hours and put alot of time on the buggy. The front and rear a-arms held up great. Since I'm a new driver I wasn't easy on it at all and they held up. I did break the wing mount and also the B4 bulkhead that I cut in half for the upper a-arms. These things didn't break until the end of testing though. The cvds held up great and I'm very happy with them. For gearing I started out 21/78 but the motor wasn't getting warm at all so I went up to 23/78 and I'm still not sure that is high enough gearing. I think I could go up to 24/78 or 25/78 tops.
Unfortunately, as far as handling goes I don't have anything to compare to because I haven't driven another buggy on that track. I'm also not a good enough driver yet to tell if a car is handling great. One thing I can comment on is the traction. In most places the traction was pretty good. I did have to be careful in some parts not to spin out.. but at the same time I wasn't using the recommended compound of tire so that may have had something to do with it. I think I also might be able to squeeze some more steering out of it.I'm very happy with how today went and I think with some tuning and more track time this thing can handle really well.
At the track I picked up some paint for the body. Tomorrow I have a shipment of parts coming in along with the body. I'm going to continue to work on the carbon fiber chassis parts and then paint the body and do some finishing touches and tuning. Unfortunately, I can't make it to the track until Friday or next Sunday.
Finished pictures will be posted February 10th. And believe me it will end up looking so much better then it does now.
12 days till debut!
Finished pictures coming tomorrow night!
Debut is this weekend!
Tomorrow is the start of this buggies debut race. Tomarrow is practice day. I have a few small things left to do before then.. but pretty much done.. I will post some better pictures up after this weekend.. also I will post a video of it running. Throughout the weekend I will probaly be taking a few pictures here and their and posting how each day went at the end of each day. But for now...:sneaky: Hope you guys like.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2467.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2477.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2472.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2468.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2471.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2469.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2470.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2478.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2480.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2482.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2486.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2483.jpg
jeffrey
11-02-2011, 08:25 AM
looks very nice :thumbsup:
Fun & amazing project young man!
Best of luck with your studies! And hope you get a position at one of the top RC manufacturers! :thumbsup:
Thanks alot Shy!!
DAY 1 of Debut race: Practice
I got to the track at about 4pm today. I got my pit space set-up and started getting ready the K2. The white springs on the buggy were too soft and so I switched back to some Traxxas springs. I took my first run and the track had lots of traction. I soon found out that I don't think traction will be a problem at all this weekend with this buggy. I started off slow just to get a feel for the track and stuff. I ran 2 full 6 minute practice rounds and was doing pretty good. On the 3 practice round I went too fast down the straight and ran straight into the wall. The front upper bulk head broke. So I got out the power tools and made another one. I got back out on the track about 45 minutes later. This time Dustin Evans caught site of the buggy and watched it turn a few laps. :sneaky: On my 6 round of practicing I did the same thing as I did when I broke.. I ran into the wall after the straight. This time I broke the front upper bulkhead mount and front rocker.
The whole night I had people coming up to me and asking about my buggy and complimenting me on it and it got a lot of looks while it was out on the track.
I think that with some suspension tuning, lighter materials, and a good driver that this thing could hang in with all the other Buggies.
I have quiet a few spare parts to make tonight. Tomarrow is 3 rounds of qualifying. I'm going to make a few small changes tonight. But overall I think the buggy is really doing great. Now I just have to learn how to drive.
Here are some good pictures of the buggy before I set-off to the track.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/P1000580.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/P1000584.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/P1000579.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/P1000593.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/P1000587.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/P1000586.jpg
Thanks guys for the compliments.
DAY 2 Qualifying:
Yesterday was qualifying. We had 3 rounds of qualifying. My first round went all right I was just trying to baby it around the track so I wouldn't crash. In the last few minutes I picked up the pace. With about twenty seconds left the front upper bulk head mount broke again because I crashed. For the next round I put a carbon fiber upper a-arm mount on instead of another plastic one. The second round went a lot better and nothing broke. After the second round Scott Brown ( A sponsored racer from Seattle) checked out my car and he liked it. I ad him take a few laps with it. He told me the suspension was way too stiff. Other then that it seemed to go around well. Also another sponsered racer and local hot shot Kody Numedahl commented on my buggy and said it was impressive.Hearing compliments from big time sponsored guys was awesome. Last qualifier didn't go so well and I broke another front upper bulkhead. These parts are definatly the weakest parts on the buggy. I finished the race though.
Over-all day two went Ok I suppose. I just really am no good at driving..I can build the cars but I'm not good at driving them yet.
Here is a picture of the track that the race was held at.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/182731_171250816254467_100001086481412_356629_6430 757_n.jpg
DAY 3 1 round of qualifying and mains:
I had one qualifier in the morning today and my slipper came undone half way thru the race so I had to tighten it. After that things went pretty good. Once again though another front upper bulkhead broke.
A picture of my pit space
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/IMG_2488.jpg
My main went well and was my best race of the day. I ended up 4th and nothing broke on the buggy.
Overall...it was a disappointing weekend. A few bugs here and their and some weak parts on the buggy. But I'm more disappointed in my driving. But I haven't really been racing much at all.
As far as the buggy..I'm proud of it and think it turned out great. I think it needs some different springs and some different rockers to soften up the suspension. With some weight reduction (its ready to run weight is 1700g so 200g over minimum ) and some small durability fixs I think it could do really well with a good driver.
I think I'm going to take some time off from this project. I'll be submitting some pictures to the magazines.. but now that the race is over I'm sort of burned out. It takes a lot of work to get build a car like this is and is very stressful with a deadline. I will continue to test and tune the buggy over the next few months. In the mean time I'm going to start a new project so be looking for that. I'll post any updates, pictures, or videos. But for now a well deserved break is sounds very good right now.
Though…. For my senior project for school.. I am drawing the whole car up in Solidworks.. I may post some pictures of that once I’m finished also.
Once I get this thing dialed and get alittle bit better at racing I will be posting a video. A video of my main race may show up in a couple days.. I’m just not sure.
AndyF
15-02-2011, 10:52 PM
Well done mate. I can see that what you have done would take a lot of effort, but don't give in. A few days and you will be planning your next meet!!!
Anybody can drive, few can design and build buggies!
kaszal
16-02-2011, 10:43 AM
Well done! You are getting valuable engineering experience and car setup knowledge... plus the 'soft skills' you mentioned e.g. hard work, perseverance and knowing when to have a break from a project and refresh! What a great addition to your CV.
Any chance you can post a video of it running?
btw that dirt track looks wicked, wish I had one nearby (London)
Itīs an awsome car! Show this thread to Losi or Asso when you send them your application and they wont even think of taking someone else!!!
I keep fingers crossed for you and your future, but only if i get a preproduction car then :p
And i think the driving is not a big problem, the biggest issue is to focus and concentrate during a quali or a main then itīs no problem!!
Nice work !!
cheers
john333
17-02-2011, 05:24 PM
just found this thread, what a great piece of work!
You should definitely look at a job in the industry when you get your qualifications.
Well done mate.
AndyF: Yep I'm starting a new project and after I start it I will come back to this and starting figureing how to fix the problems and dial it in.
Kasval: Thanks. Yep thats part of the idea is to gain engineering experiance from these projects and have projects which I can show companies when I apply in a few years.
Till: Thanks, along with showing them the actual car and I am in the process of drawing up the entire car in Solidworks and so pictures of those drawings should help. Unfortunatly, I won't have my Mechanical Engineering degree for another 4 years.. so I can't apply until then.
John: Thanks, yep I definatly plan on applying at different companies for an engineering position once I get my degree.
kasiraki
18-02-2011, 08:18 PM
Hello EDS, very nice car, ideas, how you solved problems how you got the solutions, for real, very very good, and above all share all that and show all how it went, wish that get your degree well and a job in the industry that makes you happy, apart cant even imagine what will build in 4 years from now, but for sure would love to see it, and drive it , if that would be possible, but better dont lend it :), same problem as you good in mechanics , not good in driving ,,, well so is life :)
but have to thank you very much for sharing your deram, and how it become reality
thanks a lot for all, and if need help any time just let me know
All the best
Thanks! I'm glad you liked the build...it looks like I will continue to develop this car in the up coming months..
To my dismay... I'm having to revisit this project sooner then I would have liked.. I have recently become a Contributing Editor for a magazine.. I sent some pictures of this project to them to check out and they want me to send it to them for pictures and want me to write an article on it...
Currently its fully disassembled..So i have to replace the broken parts with some new ones and try to figure out the suspension issue before I send it out.
Sooo be looking for this project in... Rcdriver mag.
So guys after looking over this project...I'm thinking it might be better to switch to a regular stand up shock set-up.. the inboard shocks do add alot of weight..and its very hard to figure out the right spring stiffness and all the geometry with out knowing the mathematics yet. I'm thinking about keeping the revo shocks..but redesigning it to use stand-up shocks..this would allow me to lighten it up alot and be able to get the suspension to work properly. I ofcourse would keep the rest of it the same because I think the rest of it works great.
What do you guys think? Should I work on refining the laydown suspension with possibly Team xtreme X11 parts...or should I go to stand up shocks?
lochness42
13-03-2011, 06:58 AM
You might be able to try Ishima shock layout
http://www.ishimaracing.com/assets/images/ISHI-242_600px245.jpg
I think you should stay with the layed down shocks, this is what (i think) is your special thing in building cars. This is your speciality, you did this with 2 or 3 cars as far as I remember.
So stay with it for the mag and if you want to change it, wait till after the mag.
till: as much as I would like to stay with laydown shocks.. I just don't have the knowledge to design the suspension so it would work properly. Now ofcourse I will learn this knowledge but I don't know the mathematics yet.
I believe in-order for my buggy to be competitive I will probaly have to switch to a stand-up shock system. I do believe my buggy will still be very unique though becuase of the belt drive, pivot ball suspension,etc
I did change the P2 rockers on the front of the buggy to Long Travel rockers and those seemed to soften up the suspension alot but still allowed for the buggy to rebound.. I also tried dying the springs black and I think they turned out great. I re-made the parts that where broken and packed it all up in a box.I sent it out to Rcdriver yesterday..
Here's a picture of it before getting into the box...
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2555.jpg
NOW...back to my vacation from this project..and some time to work on a basher project.
colmo
23-03-2011, 01:32 PM
I had the idea of bolting an E4 backend onto a buggy a while back and now I find out someone else had got there first! You even sorted out the main issue, the addition of a slipper.
Try bolting that transmission to the back of a B4 chassis - it would be a very simple job compared to the scratchbuild of the K2v2!
till: as much as I would like to stay with laydown shocks.. I just don't have the knowledge to design the suspension so it would work properly. Now ofcourse I will learn this knowledge but I don't know the mathematics yet.
I believe in-order for my buggy to be competitive I will probaly have to switch to a stand-up shock system. I do believe my buggy will still be very unique though becuase of the belt drive, pivot ball suspension,etc
I did change the P2 rockers on the front of the buggy to Long Travel rockers and those seemed to soften up the suspension alot but still allowed for the buggy to rebound.. I also tried dying the springs black and I think they turned out great. I re-made the parts that where broken and packed it all up in a box.I sent it out to Rcdriver yesterday..
Here's a picture of it before getting into the box...
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/eds24/Team%20Kassanova%20B4/IMG_2555.jpg
NOW...back to my vacation from this project..and some time to work on a basher project.
Got to say this is the coolest and most innovative build I've seen, you've got some real skills and I look forward to developments with this car ;)
colmo: Yea the slipper took some time.. quiet a few hours of latheing down a aluminum rod. But hey it works, it was definitely the hardest part of the build. I think it could be a bit tough to bolt this rear end to a B4 chassis since the "webbing" on the B4 chassis.
Beng: Thanks a lot for the compliment!
The buggy is still with Rcdriver...they said they are going to make and paint up a new body for it for the pictures though. Once I get it back I hope to keep testing and developing this buggy. I really want to get some videos of it running for you guys.
Lowie
22-04-2011, 11:51 AM
great work dude.
I think that indeed, the laydown shock-system adds quite some weight to your project ... but on the other hand such a system can quite easely be adjusted so there is a very strong pro to it.
(there MUST be reason why such shocks are used in F1-cars! ;) )
I think you can easely soften your suspension by making some adjustments to your rockers ... and offcourse to the shocks itselves.
A softer spring, more holes in the piston, thinner oil.
on the rocker: make the distance from the shockhole to the rocker-axle a bit shorter. this way the pushrod will have a larger lever-functionality, IMHO.
Actually, (being an ex-predator-racer) I think that even small changes might make a big difference.
And who knows, maybe just by returning to more conventional shocks (B4, Kyosho, BB TLR22, ...) might get you back on track AND would easy your project.
As what weight is concerned, It is a pitty that the car is this heavy but nowadays, 2WD-cars are often equipped with quite some weight/brass to add on traction with all that heavy brushless-power. A 1700 grams car is no exception anymore.
Also, if, later on, you could replace some other parts by carbon parts, that would drop the weight of the car also.
Thank you guys for all the support and comments about this project. After giving this buggy real hard look I don't believe this project will progress any farther. To make this buggy better I was looking at having to fix the suspension, drive train, and steering while also cutting down on weight and increasing durability. Fixing all the problems to make this car competitive would take a good deal of re-designing. Also, the features that I thought would be advantageous really weren't such as the laydown shocks and the pivot ball suspension.
I'm sorry to say but this project is going to be put up on the shelf. This is sad for me becuase of all the hard work and money I put into this buggy. But...
2wd buggy is still one of the most popular classes at my track...so I have to some type of custom, unique, buggy to race. For that.... look for a new thread in the next few months..as I have come up with a 2wd buggy project which I believe will have a much lighter,simpler design, and achieve all the goals I had set for this buggy..including being unique....and being able to keep up with the B4's and 22's
Project: Traxxas J2
(1/10th 2wd based electric buggy)
teamorsum96
16-05-2011, 07:59 PM
thats a shame fella, i really liked your design:thumbsup:
Thanks, I liked the design too.. it looks great also but I just don't think it can compete with the other buggies.
teamorsum96
17-05-2011, 04:17 PM
yes you may be right, but at club level i think it could work if you make it reliable :thumbsup: have you fort about using a B4 front end with the inboard shocks, if i had the time i would of loved to tried to made 1 similar.
sorry if there is any spelling mistakes, im a retard :lol:
rcjunky
17-05-2011, 06:52 PM
I think a 'regular' buggy (B4, Losi etc) with inboard shocks would be cool, that way the geometry is all good and the balance shouldn't change much, and the durability will still be as good as the rest of them. Do you think a torsion chassis would work off road? so torsion bars flexing instead of springs compressing, that would be pimp if you could make it work.
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