First test of my prototype [Archive]

hottuna

19-08-2010, 08:54 PM

The_doctor

19-08-2010, 11:27 PM

X7, i did the math :thumbsup:

I've been working on a new idea, and today i could finally test it on the track.
X6 is a wonderful car, but we can't stop the development, right? :D

I'm just hating saddle packs, and refuse to use 'em, but wanted to change the layout on the car. I noticed the difference already on the first lap, it jumps much better, and is much quicker around tight turns then the original. My fastest lap with the squared is 28,0, with the X7 i did a 27,64. It's a bit more difficult to drive, the rear is more loose, and demands more of the driver. But with more tests and setups it might be more forgiving.
This is just a quick build prototype to test the idea, and I will make a carbon fibre chassis later.
This is the beast:

that looks alot better than the saddle pack i think your on the money with this i think this is what X factory should bring out and not the saddle pack
good work!!!
try running greens springs on the rear with NO 1 pistons that should help with a more planted rear!!!!!
second hole out from the inside of tower and out side hole on the arm you may find its got to much grip on the rear now and 30w oil allround!!!

RS Concept

20-08-2010, 04:09 PM

Huhaaa, thats a RRRadical modification:thumbsup:

Nice, shure workx.

We will see how X-Daddy and the machinery:) will surprise us in the next year.

hottuna

20-08-2010, 06:24 PM

I didn't play around with the setup, i used the same as on the X6 to compare.

The idea was just to test this one a few laps, but i think i will run it on the next race :thumbsup:

fastinfastout

21-08-2010, 09:52 AM

just buy a cougar!:lol:

hottuna

21-08-2010, 11:46 AM

just buy a cougar!:lol:
Why would i buy a low quality car when i have a XFactory with the best rear and front end on the market.

wes j.

22-08-2010, 08:44 PM

Nice. Just wondering why you've mounted the speed controller and receiver on the same side of the chassis. Is it to counter balance the weight of the motor?

hottuna

23-08-2010, 09:24 AM

Nice. Just wondering why you've mounted the speed controller and receiver on the same side of the chassis. Is it to counter balance the weight of the motor?
Simple reason, the cable between RX and ESC was to short :lol:
But after i mounted it, i saw, just like you, that it compensate the motor weight.

wes j.

23-08-2010, 10:19 AM

Simple reason, the cable between RX and ESC was to short :lol:
But after i mounted it, i saw, just like you, that it compensate the motor weight.

Really looking forward to seeing the end result :thumbsup:.

nicefrog

23-08-2010, 04:56 PM

Nice job :) I think the Team C / Ansmann mid is going to allow the stick battery to go either way but I'd have to have another look to be sure, I was just converting mine when they announced the new chassis so now I'm just waiting for the parts instead :) (lazy)

hottuna

01-09-2010, 12:14 PM

It can't be that bad, i ended up 2'nd in the last race, my best result ever :thumbsup:

Still waiting for parts for the carbon version.

hottuna

06-09-2010, 08:10 PM

Small progress. I'm still playing around and having fun with my new milling mashine.

Razer

07-09-2010, 09:47 AM

X7, i did the math :thumbsup:

I've been working on a new idea, and today i could finally test it on the track.
X6 is a wonderful car, but we can't stop the development, right? :D

I'm just hating saddle packs, and refuse to use 'em, but wanted to change the layout on the car. I noticed the difference already on the first lap, it jumps much better, and is much quicker around tight turns then the original. My fastest lap with the squared is 28,0, with the X7 i did a 27,64. It's a bit more difficult to drive, the rear is more loose, and demands more of the driver. But with more tests and setups it might be more forgiving.
This is just a quick build prototype to test the idea, and I will make a carbon fibre chassis later.
This is the beast:

If that's Proline Calibers try going out with them turned the other way around, and you'll get a lot more forward bite!

SHY

07-09-2010, 10:11 AM

Nice work! Keep in mind though that the Schumacher Cougar SV already takes stickpacks along the centerline of the chassis! :thumbsup:

(for those who want a car like that without all the modification work...)

Razer, when are you gonna try it??? Put that vintage XXX-CR on the shelf now and go for it!

hottuna

07-09-2010, 12:16 PM

Nice work! Keep in mind though that the Schumacher Cougar SV already takes stickpacks along the centerline of the chassis! :thumbsup:
Who wants a Schumacher :confused:

I'm aware of the tires Razor, if you don't mean inside out? :D

SHY

07-09-2010, 01:42 PM

No offence, I'm sure your project/mod will be great! Just trying to say it's not really a new idea as there is a mid motor car for sale already with this battery layout :p

I saw from the Euros that some french guys have also been running a custom made car with mid motor and a stickpack along the center, with great success it seemed.

Does the Cougar SV have the same wheelbase as the X-6, S2 etc? (is it longer?) Looks like your proto is quite a bit longer, how much vs. standard?

Say what you like, but the solution from Schuey as to the steering servo looks smart!
http://www.racing-cars.com/pp/Car_Showroom/images/cougar_no_steering_1000.jpg

hottuna

07-09-2010, 02:01 PM

wrong

hottuna

07-09-2010, 02:02 PM

I've never said it was a new idea.

Mine is 9mm longer then standard, and about the same wheelbase as a RB5, the only car i've compared it to. The real version will be shorter.

According to owners the Cougar steering is a pain in the *ss to work with.

slow bob

07-09-2010, 10:01 PM

I own a cougar sv and the steering is verry easy to work with and i like the fact you dont need to use a silly low profile servo ..

Fabs

08-09-2010, 05:37 AM

What's wrong with low profile servos? IMHO you'd have to be stupid to still buy regular size servos these days...

Hottuna: Nice job man, I know the guys who race the french car and I had the chance to try it, it's very very good indeed.

SHY

08-09-2010, 06:06 AM

I've never said it was a new idea.

X7, i did the math :thumbsup:

I've been working on a new idea

...no, of course you didn't! :lol::lol::lol:

Just kidding, enjoy your project Søta Bror! :thumbsup:

daz

08-09-2010, 07:12 AM

I own a cougar sv and the steering is verry easy to work with and i like the fact you dont need to use a silly low profile servo ..
Yeah but cougars at sh*t, it need to be easy to work on as you are changing the servo horns week in and week out. I sold a perfectly good X6 to buy a bag of sh*t cougar what i totally regret so far.

hottuna

08-09-2010, 07:20 AM

...no, of course you didn't! :lol::lol::lol:

Just kidding, enjoy your project Søta Bror! :thumbsup:

It was new for me, but not a new consept. I've understood you don't like what i do, just stop looking in this thread then.

hottuna

08-09-2010, 07:22 AM

Hottuna: Nice job man, I know the guys who race the french car and I had the chance to try it, it's very very good indeed.
Sounds great :thumbsup:
Do you know how much flex the chassis has? I think i will make mine quite soft.

fastinfastout

08-09-2010, 03:12 PM

What's wrong with low profile servos? IMHO you'd have to be stupid to still buy regular size servos these days...

there is a huge difference between a low profile servo of 0.09 speed, compared to 0.06 for the quickest regular size servo. I will never go back to anything slower than 0.06 servos

slow bob

08-09-2010, 04:15 PM

Yeah but cougars at sh*t, it need to be easy to work on as you are changing the servo horns week in and week out. I sold a perfectly good X6 to buy a bag of sh*t cougar what i totally regret so far.

I Think you should look at the purple metal servo horns savox make if you are having problems with the plastic horns :D or just stop crashing into things :p

hottuna

25-09-2010, 06:15 PM

Some progress :) I have little time to spend on the build, but finally all parts for the rear end are ready, and bolted on the CF plate.

Fabs

25-09-2010, 07:00 PM

there is a huge difference between a low profile servo of 0.09 speed, compared to 0.06 for the quickest regular size servo. I will never go back to anything slower than 0.06 servos

???

As far as I know there isn't any servo that does 0.06s/60°... And I've just double checked on all the manufacturer's websites...

matdodd

25-09-2010, 08:38 PM

???

As far as I know there isn't any servo that does 0.06s/60°... And I've just double checked on all the manufacturer's websites...

The only one i can think of thats 0.06/60° is the HS-7940TH!
Its an awesome servo but there abit over kill for an RC car!

Fabs

25-09-2010, 08:50 PM

hottuna

25-09-2010, 08:53 PM

I'm not a fan of hyper fast servos anyway. If you're into fast steering, you can change the speed by adjusting the ratio.
The fact that i have to use a low profile one doesn't bother me.
The thread isn't about servos anyways, i just want to show my progress about my new car.

matdodd

25-09-2010, 09:08 PM

No one mentioned operating voltage just speed :)
There designed to operate at 7.4v and there not just for RC use I sell loads for other applications!

O and good job with the car Hottuna

super__dan

25-09-2010, 11:26 PM

KO 2123 is 0.06 though @ 7.2V with LIPO likely faster. I have 4 still as think they are great, specfically when recevier voltage is an issue (old Spektrum problem) being direct powered from the lipo is reasurring.

That said I have chosen to run a Savox in my 2wd now and KO2133 (older slower 6V) in the truck to smooth the steering out some.

I had a low profile Futaba servo and didn't like it, didn't feel it had the guts of the 2123 so went back.

ttboyy2k

27-09-2010, 11:25 PM

Is the handling noticeably different over the stock battery location? Are the laptimes faster with the battery down the centerline of the chassis?

hottuna

28-09-2010, 07:16 AM

Is the handling noticeably different over the stock battery location? Are the laptimes faster with the battery down the centerline of the chassis?
Yes, and yes :thumbsup: Better laptimes, but more important, i can run better laptimes without pushing 110%. It's so easy to drive.

jetblack750il

30-09-2010, 01:40 PM

fastinfastout

30-09-2010, 04:07 PM

HS as in a Hitec servo? I would not put one of these piece of c.... in any of my cars !!!!!

Besides it's 0.06V under 7.4V, goes up to 0.07 under 6V, and no one these days operate their servos direct from the cells...

Savox SH-1290MG 0.05/60deg 5.00Kg/cm at 6V, 0.06/60deg 4.00Kg/cm at 4.8V

I like fast servo , I always can slow it down when needed.
JR Z9100S specs at 6v are
0.06/60deg
torque 180 oz/in (13 kg/cm)

there is no other servo that I know of that has both high speed and high torque.

I bought one for my car, and was that impressed that I'm going to buy them for all of my fleet :thumbsup:

YoungChazz

30-09-2010, 04:58 PM

We are constantly moving things back, not forward. Yes, especially on high-grip U.K. tracks you need weight up front, and the U.K. guys have gone to the saddle chassis because newer, heavier LiPo stick packs put too much weight outside, but for most tracks we are moving things back.

We tested a stick down the center chassis back in '07. It was horrible. We had to cut out far too much bracing and the flex skyrocketed. Some may like that -- the plastic chassis sells well and works well on some tracks. But we found the experimental chassis just too flexy; so much so that we were afraid it would break on big triple jumps.

hottuna

30-09-2010, 08:16 PM

Funny how we like things different Chazz :) I'm sure the world would be boring if we didn't.

I've raced and trained with my non serious prototype build. Before i put it on the track the first time i was happy if it would hold a few laps, just to test the feeling.
It turned out well, and i choosed to race it the last 2 races in the swedish summer cup, i ended 2'nd on a low level grip, and 5'th on a high level grip track. Normally i struggle to get to the A-main in all races.
Lap times aren't much different, but the car is so nice and easy to drive, it feels like i'm driving at 80%, but still as fast as before, when i pushed 110%, and made mistakes.
We all have different driving styles, and this seems to suit me :)

My heart still belongs to X6, and the family, don't worry :thumbsup:

ttboyy2k

30-09-2010, 09:22 PM

Hey Hottuna!
I just put the lipo down the middle of my x-60 after reading about your success. I race in the USA. I will be trying it out this weekend and I will post my results and some pics. With the x-60 having a longer chassis u can leave the servo in the stock position. No need to put it upright.
Tommy

ttboyy2k

01-10-2010, 01:16 AM

Here are the pics of my hottuna inspired X-60. I will test it out this weekend at a clay track where we use pink team losi taper pins and BK bars.

17208

hottuna

01-10-2010, 07:10 AM

Looks great :thumbsup: Interesting to see how the truck react on this.

super__dan

01-10-2010, 11:50 AM

Hi, that looks great, 1 thing, make sure you're lipo doesnt get hot off the motor, I'm no expert but I cannot imagine that's a good thing.

On my X60 over here I add weight to the truck but less to the front than my x6 and more under the motor, so considering the weight blance of a stock X60 is further back than stock X6, I've moved it slightly further back comparitivley to a weighted up X6. Not saying it won't work for you, interested to find out!

ttboyy2k

01-10-2010, 03:44 PM

Well, I put the E-speed fan mount on the motor. So hopefully that will keep things a little cooler.

Fabs

01-10-2010, 03:50 PM

Savox SH-1290MG 0.05/60deg 5.00Kg/cm at 6V, 0.06/60deg 4.00Kg/cm at 4.8V

I like fast servo , I always can slow it down when needed.

5Kg that's useless...

YoungChazz

02-10-2010, 02:21 AM

Tuna, one of the great things about The Family is that various ones like to try out new things. We encourage it, and are proud that many Family suggestions have made it into production. So keep the ideas coming! And the race success! Yes, a flexy car can be easier to drive on some tracks -- that's why we have both the graphite and plastic chassies.

hottuna

08-10-2010, 07:46 PM

A bit further...
I hate working with CF :mad: It makes a mess, and cost me lots of endmills, but the result is good :)

Rear end takes form

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/DSC_7377.jpg

Finish right out of the mill, quite good, although i used a dull endmill

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/DSC_7384.jpg

Slots for the battery "knobs", I don't know the word

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/DSC_7386.jpg

ikey ji

08-10-2010, 09:38 PM

Hey hey, looking good mate!
It's on the way...:p

hottuna

08-10-2010, 09:54 PM

Hey hey, looking good mate!
It's on the way...:p
Haha, thanks mate. Slow, but moving. Quality over quantity :thumbsup: Not every one will get the X7 ;)
Hope I will get some more progress this weekend, but schedule full... Out door training tomorrow, local paper will make a report. Indoor training on sunday...

hottuna

16-10-2010, 10:17 PM

GT-2 front attached :) I didn't like how it's screwed into the chassis, the holes are right on the edges, it looks far to weak. I cut the front post, and added a CF plate between it on the upper side, and 2 more screws.

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/DSC_7387.jpg

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/DSC_7388.jpg

Layout with the servo, it fits good in the GT-2 front
http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/DSC_7393.jpg

ikey ji

18-10-2010, 03:28 PM

Your prototype must be good!
Julien Formentin with a home made 2WD chassis (created by mr Beneventi) called the SK1, is just the 2010 French champion...;)
Have a look here...
http://storage.canalblog.com/57/89/327816/51927942.jpg
:thumbsup:

hottuna

18-10-2010, 03:58 PM

Me like! Gives me fuel to finish mine ASAP.

hottuna

30-10-2010, 02:14 PM

First spy picture :D
Note how the upper brace also work as a servo mount, i'm really pleased with this solution.

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/20101030195.jpg

wes j.

02-11-2010, 07:59 PM

First spy picture :D
Note how the upper brace also work as a servo mount, i'm really pleased with this solution.

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/20101030195.jpg

It's looking good mate. You've inspired me to try and have ago at modifying an old chassis to take the pack down the middle. Wanted to ask you do you have to use a low profile servo for the converstion. Or can you use a standard size one. Cheers Wes :thumbsup:

hottuna

02-11-2010, 09:10 PM

With a standard servo you will get an odd angle on the steering link, if you're not able to shim alot under the ballstuds. Other then that it would be no problem, it's all up to what body you use.
With the X6 body it won't fit. With the Jconcept Illuzion B44 i will use, i think it might work, not sure.

Worth to know from my test experience: I thought this would be a high grip car, but it accually has worked best outdoor on low grip dirt. Might be the layout of the battery, might be the quite soft chassis of the prototype.
The new X7 is really stiff! It wasn't ment to be, i think it's just to well build :lol:

I'm in the last phase now, building it together, test on sunday! :drool:

hottuna

02-11-2010, 09:34 PM

Say what you like, but the solution from Schuey as to the steering servo looks smart!
http://www.racing-cars.com/pp/Car_Showroom/images/cougar_no_steering_1000.jpg
I dare to say the opposite, compare Schumacher's, and my solution to mount the servo ;)

SHY

03-11-2010, 02:50 PM

Dont' get me wrong, your craftmanship is excellent! :wub

My point was that Schuey managed to do this without making the wheelbase longer (correct me if I'm wrong) with their solution. Your car is now longer than most cars, right? (at least you wrote that your prototype was)

And with that you have departed from "standard setup" and are kinda back to square one as to finding good setups. And probably there's a reason why the factories don't make their cars longer. There normally is a "sweet spot" for a given class as to chassis design.

So, great that the battery is now in the center, nobody would argue that this is ideal. Then again, LiPos are lighter than NIMH, and the ESC and receiver also does weigh some.

All in all I think a std. X-6 could be just as good or fast, if you play around with weight distribution using the E-Speed brass weight kit from Rudebitz. And you still have the short wheelbase.

Again, not meaning to criticize your build, the work is VERY impressive! Just trying to clarify my views as to the basic "layout" of the car. :D

So, unless you've managed to make your car with the same short wheelbase as the Cat... sorry, I then still think their solution is more clever! :p It'd be great if someone could do a wheelbase comparison of the current cars!

If OTOH it now turns out that a longer wheelbase is better, I'll bend my head in shame! :D

hottuna

03-11-2010, 07:10 PM

So, unless you've managed to make your car with the same short wheelbase as the Cat... sorry
No, i didn't. The chassis is 3mm longer then the X6, with the wheelbase adjustment, it can be more or less the same.

JensK

03-11-2010, 07:28 PM

Totally love your craftmanship on building this car. Hope the car will handle as good as it looks...

Have built a couple of prototype cars myself, so i know how much hard work you need to put in it..especially with a proffesional finish like this.

Keep up the good work and let us know how it handels

till

03-11-2010, 10:55 PM

woooow, that´s an awsome car !!! I like it and I am jealous about the equipment that you have (espesially the milling mashine). I´m working with those mashines nearly every day, but im not allowed to do privat stuff =(

so keep on going what you do !!

one more thing is, i´d like to see tha car build, till now i only saw parts of it ^^

hottuna

04-11-2010, 06:42 AM

Thank you guys, i'm glad you like it :)
I was building until late night yesterday, and it's ready :thumbsup:
Body is not cut out and painted, but i will make some photos after work.

SHY

04-11-2010, 09:09 AM

No, i didn't. The chassis is 3mm longer then the X6, with the wheelbase adjustment, it can be more or less the same.

OK, but 3mm is very little. I think you wrote that your prototype was 9mm longer. So this shouldn't be an issue then. Good work!!!

And yes, your servo mounting is 100% new & very ingenious! :woot:

hottuna

04-11-2010, 08:29 PM

It's to dark to take photos now, will make better ones later.

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/DSC_7413.jpg

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/DSC_7414.jpg

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/DSC_7416.jpg

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/DSC_7417.jpg

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/DSC_7420.jpg

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/DSC_7421.jpg

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/DSC_7423.jpg

http://www.hottuna.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/DSC_7426.jpg

wes j.

04-11-2010, 09:50 PM

Awesome:drool::cool::wub:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumb sup::thumbsup::thumbsup:. Will you put some pics of it with the shell on when you get a chance.:)

ikey ji

05-11-2010, 07:09 AM

hottuna

05-11-2010, 08:07 AM

Wowwww, looking really great!
It looks like a 4wd (except the narrow front wheels) , will you use a custom body or a 4WD body? I think bodies like B44 should fit?

Other question, what do you use for the servo wire? I mean the black cover...what is it?

Ok now we are looking forward to seeing your track feelings...;)
Thanks!
I will use a Jconcepts Illuzion B44 body. It fits quite good, not perfect in the rear.
The cable cover is some cheap stuff i found at my local hobby shop, like this http://www.ait.se/_upload/isolerslang-kabelstrumpa.jpg

hottuna

06-11-2010, 09:57 PM

Darren Boyle

06-11-2010, 11:48 PM

You just got to love DMS and Darren! Last night at midnight, i decided to order some things from them, but had a few questions. 30 min later he replied :o that makes 1:30 english time!
What other online shop responds that fast. Good job DMS! :thumbsup:

Hey Hans, it wasnt that late here, it was only 11:30pm (still early ;)) LOL, it would have been earlier but I had only just got in from tidying up and working late at the shop....

Thanks for the kind words :wub

hottuna

07-11-2010, 01:25 AM

Hey Hans, it wasnt that late here, it was only 11:30pm (still early ;)) LOL, it would have been earlier but I had only just got in from tidying up and working late at the shop....

Thanks for the kind words :wub
Haha, think I need to work on my time zone skills :blush: Anyway, it was rapid support way beyond opening time. Count on DMS stickers on my X7 car ;)

hottuna

07-11-2010, 09:52 PM

First test today :) I love this car! So easy to drive, and really fast. I was smiling all day :D
I did some setup changes, and it got better and better. I will need more training to learn how it reacts on setups, but it seems to be brilliant "right out of the box"