Endurance Electric final

[Chris Doughty]

does anyone fancy running a 10 or 20 minute final at some one-off event/race this winter?

maybe even if its just a 'race' in between qually and finals with a group of racers?

Lee - I fancy coming over to your track some-time-soon to see how long I can get out of my car.

[woOdy]

sounds interesting. I would be up for it. I could also be up for a le mans type race. 12 hour enurance.

[franki]

Maybe we could do it for charity???

[footey]

i ran a endurance race for 3 hours as a sponsered event to raise money to run my little club i had some rules like amount of batts allowed per team chargers and stuff it was great fun well worth doing:)

[Medders]

a team endurance event would be a great idea

[PaulRotheram]

I think Chris is goin for more the 20 min A main stylee they hade in the states a while ago with trucks.. I'm up for both ideas though, as a one off!

[super__dan]

10 mins we could do with normal equipment i.e. 4200's and brushless.

20 mins NEEDS LIPO which is a different kettle of fish for most of us.

[Chris Doughty]

I like the idea of both.

a 'special' one-off final where people might need special equipment.

or a long (3 hour plus) team endurance race.

I think this is something electric racing is missing, but is possible to be done with todays technology.

also note, this is suggestion/idea for one-off event, nothing to do with the BRCA national series

[super__dan]

We have a 6 hour race in the North East (Mike Leonard at Teeside). It's been ace the last 2 years, the first time cos we won and the 2nd cos we ran team vintage and still came 3rd.

It really is great fun and one of my favourite events of the year!

[LEGEND]

Yes the Mike Leonard is a great example. It is 6 hours of pure fun and excitment:D

[josh_smaxx]

I might enter that next time its on, when its on?

[terry.sc]

10 mins we could do with normal equipment i.e. 4200's and brushless.

20 mins NEEDS LIPO which is a different kettle of fish for most of us.Why does it need liPo? All you need to do is have a pit stop to change batteries in the middle. Makes it more interesting in a 20 minute race, do you go for gearing for 10 minutes with one pitstop or gear for less runtime and two pitstops.

After all they used to run 30 minute finals in US oval racing in the late 80s with 1400mah batteries. For a one off event it is unlikely anyone will build a quick change battery system.

[Chris Doughty]

the thing about most electric endurance races is that they just have '5 minute' stints and swap driver and car.

the aim is more to run 1 car for the distance, be it a 20 minute final or a 3 hour endurance race.

with regard to quick change batteries, more power to the guy who puts in the effort to do that.

[terry.sc]

Yeah, the old endurance races (including the Paris 24 hour race) just used one car with battery/motor/tyres/repairs as needed. PB must have sold many more quick change battery mounts than Mini Mustangs. If they could make the buggies run for 24 hours in the 80s surely modern chassis can manage it.

[Lee Martin]

20 min lipo!!!

lets do it!!

[mattym0310]

I might enter that next time its on, when its on?

ive competed in it the past 2years and it was brilliant. the first time i was in team york and we won [no help from me :D] and second time with a fun team. its always fun. i think it is normally held february, march time at teeside.

[Chris Doughty]

20 min lipo!!!

lets do it!!

do you fancy putting on an exibition race at one of your winter meetings then Lee?

Terry - yes, (we always say this.. but...) Donisthorpe 24 hour race was amazing, one car, 24 hours, quick change batteries, hour long stints driving the car with pit-stops...

[Lee Martin]

im up for it!!!

where do i get me a lipo!

[Chris Doughty]

See how long you can run on nmhi's I think you would be able to get close to 20 mins.

[Nick Goodall]

Either a few one off long races or a Team race would be awesome - Maximum concentration needed at CML Raceway too so that would be good to see how people got on......

Do it do it!!!

[Mossy]

I definately be up for an endurance. Surely we could sort maybe an 8 hour one at Lee's, perhaps 2 cars and teams of 5?

[Chris Doughty]

wonder if 1 person and 1 car could last a 6 hour endurance?

[Nick Goodall]

wonder if 1 person and 1 car could last a 6 hour endurance?

How about with 1 set of tyres? :D

I can't imagine a brushed set-up doing the distance but no reason you couldn't do it with brushless really? You'd probably not make all the jumps every lap without the chance of breaking it though so would probably be hard work resisting the temptation of ramping it 5 hours in :)

Definitely something to plan though, a 6 hour race on a Saturday followed by a big pi$$ up on the Sat evening would always be fun.

[bigred5765]

i think a 10 -12 min final would be vary do able with are std equipment 2wd or 4wd,i would love it

[Southwell]

There was a similar thing a few years ago, we all ran the same 15 turn motor and were in team of 4 or so, was a brilliant time, i'd def be up for it! Teams of 4 or 5 with even ability to make it fair.

[Jonny_H]

Three of us shared a 15-minute IC truck final at a wet Coventry club meeting a while ago.

I was leading with my 4WD at 8 minutes (both before and after the trucks had stopped for fuel) when my 3300s dumped.

One of the other guys, running brushed, was still moving at 15 minutes and came third! :)

[jim76]

I used to race 5 hr endurance races at Ashford years ago. they were the highlight of the year, a really good laugh. Teams of 5 drivers with their own car and you had a quick pitstop change over to swap the transponder from one car to the next and off you went.
This would be easy to set up with todays cars. You could run 8-9 minute stints with brushless and 4200's.

I'd be well up for a single car endurance race, but i think the team event would be easier and cheaper to organise as it wouldn't involve butchering a car and motor like a single car event.

Lee - defo organise one for CML raceway!!

[Chris Doughty]

how about 'open' endurance rules?

you can run a team event with transponder relay type, or you can enter just 1 car, or you can enter just 1 driver?

it should please everyone, even the hardcore enduro pureists

[Nick Goodall]

how about 'open' endurance rules?

you can run a team event with transponder relay type, or you can enter just 1 car, or you can enter just 1 driver?

it should please everyone, even the hardcore enduro pureists

Yeah can't see why not - makes it fair really as you'll all still have to stop and change batt's or whatever so would be cool

I remember a Team Race we did at Aylesbury, must have been around 1999/2000 but there was me, Craggy and Pidge in one team against Ellis, i think Truman..... and Bloomfield but we still won :cool: Remember that Lee??

[Chris Doughty]

how many tire changes do you think a car would need for 6 hours?

in the dry at CML Raceway Bow-Ties work well for at least 7 runs, the ribs up front don't really wear.

I recon you could be quick with a set of tires an hour?

[Lee Martin]

i think if u use M2's u could go for an hour! they would get better!

[ashleyb4]

I could!!! The question is could the marshalls keep up with me crashing:D

If you want to try it ill drive solid for 6 hours aslong as the car is going nice and i have a pit bitch. and someone to feed me.

wonder if 1 person and 1 car could last a 6 hour endurance?

[Chris Doughty]

i think if u use M2's u could go for an hour! they would get better!

would need M2 ribs also, else it a bit of a drifter on the tarmac first corner.

[Nick Goodall]

i think if u use M2's u could go for an hour! they would get better!

I reckon i've got enough to supply everyone for a 6 hour race with M2's :D

[Mossy]

I think we definately need to get this sorted!

[millzy]

im sure i have 15 sets in the house

[Chris Doughty]

definately, all round yours then Lee???

I really want to go for running 1 car the whole race, I even fancy trying to go the distance myself :wtf:

[ashleyb4]

I would love to see if i could go the full distance of 6 hours you would need a good pit bitch.

A

[josh_smaxx]

Will the timing equipment do 6 hours? Id love to do it but somehow cant see my parents taking my half way down the country to smash my car on the first corner :D

[tc2k]

The Mike Leonard event is great, 6 hours racing non stop, you never stop doing something either racing or helping your team.
It works that your team marshalls your cars and sometimes other teams help by moving you further away from your marshall :D
Its all a great day and for a annual thing its definately worth doing and is a really good day and for a good cause.
Different to what your proposing though as you do as long as you can which usually is 6 or 7 minutes and then you just switch with a team member, stick a battery in and wait till its your turn again. I think 6 hours with one car would be rough on it lol, i guess with brushless though it should be oaky but I wonder if it would last that time without thermalling

[jim76]

definately, all round yours then Lee???

I really want to go for running 1 car the whole race, I even fancy trying to go the distance myself :wtf:

it'll be a bugger getting off the rotrum and changing tyres/batteries, not to mention putting cells on charge while you drive!!! :D :D



for the teams we definitely need a system for evening them out, ie 5 man team, one from each license grade etc. And no, Nick G can't enter as an F5 unless he is in my team!!!

Or a total of 15 points minimum per team, F1=1pt, F2=2 points etc so you could have a team of 3 F3's.

[Lee Martin]

im up for it!

who wants to sponser it..

ill talk with a few peeps after worlds. u lot get ideas together

[Chris Doughty]

I get quite frustraited with the idea of 'balancing' teams...

it stops the big teams from all playing together and 'dumbs down' the competetion.

back in the day when Schumacher entered their factory team at the 24 hour race it was a specticle to watch and you guaged yourself with how far behind you were and IF you might be able to beat them.

they didn't have to have Jonny F5 in their team to even the score.

[Lee Martin]

yeh i dnt liek tht idea either...also with 1 car anything can go wrong.

plus its for fun. do it with your mates and see how u do!

[ashleyb4]

No i like the idea of having one of each license grade in a team as it then means its more competative and also people will learn more from it. As then the f3's f4's f5's will get to spend time with the f1's f2's and they can get advice and help. also wouldnt it be ace to have the top driver in each team to run the last stint and try and then it should be an ace dash to the finish. And it will make it alot more fun as if you have a team full of f1's against a team with like f4's f5's it isnt fun at all.

A

[jim76]

you can argue both sides of it. i agree a team of Lee, Truman, Goodhall, Bloomer and you would be ace to watch, but it would get a bit tedious for the other teams being lapped for the 43rd time. Also where is the challenge for the F1's?
In the interest of the masses enjoying it, if you have a balanced team then there is more challenge for the top drivers as they aren't guaranteed a win, it would also give some of the lower drivers better "contact" with an F1 in their team to advise them of lines, set up etc.

Just a thought to make it more competitive and enjoyable for the majority of people.

I'll still race either way as they are such a good laugh.


edit - ash got there first!

[Chris Doughty]

Ash, would you prefer it if all F1 drivers could only use one hand to race, F2's have to close one eye.

F3's have to sit down and F4's and F5's can run as they wish...

that should make it a bit more competitive for the national series :wtf:

[Chris Doughty]

so much can happen in an enduro race...

do you think they say to Audi that they have to have a novice in their team?


I can see your side of the argument, but its not like none of the F1's would not help anyone that asked???

[ashleyb4]

Or f1's have to run macabushi 540 motor's f2's are aloud to run stock 27t motors f3's are only aloud to use 19t motors and f4's f5's are aloud to use modified motors. lol:D Only kidding.

I just think it would be more fun.

And chris wouldnt you find it more fun to be racing lee and bloomers etc forthe last 5 minutes with a mad dash to the finish trying to make up a lap or two.

A

[Chris Doughty]

trust me Ask, no driver on earth would be able to make up the differance after 6 hours of racing.

its hard enough to make up 2 seconds on someone of the same level as regular A'ers

[Mossy]

Dont think you can really pick the teams and grade them. I agree with Pidge and Chris, always better to race on the same team as your mates. Why not work out some form of handicap, like based on the sum of your license grades added together it effects how many laps you start behind other teams e.g a team of 4 F1s for example could start say 80 laps behind a team of F3s and F4s? just a thought?

[ashleyb4]

I know it would be very hard if not impossible but it still would be ace to see all the f1's head to head really tired cars pushed to the limit.

Also having diffrent abilitys would bring it closer at the end.

And also trying to time it right so you get the right people on at the right time as if one team put someone like me on then another team put you on that team would gain alot of laps but then it would be evened out just trying to work it right so you could gain a lpa here and there etc.

I can totally see your side of the argument chris but personally i think it would make it mroe fun and closer if we had diffrent ability drivers in each team.

A:o

This is getting a bit mad

[Lee Martin]

well the F1's challenge would be from other F1's surely!!!

like a national endurance meeting!

[Chris Doughty]

the way I see it is that it is a big race, let the big players put in factory teams etc...

if a group of F3's and F4's want to race, they should set theirselves a goal, people do that at nationals, some drivers feel happy if they made the D, same kind of thing should apply.

why take away the opertunity for manufactureres to 'fairly' win a big race ?

[ashleyb4]

I like mossys idea that would be ace.

F1's have to drive standing on the rostrum while being sprayed with a fire hose.:D

A

[Lee Martin]

Freak

[jim76]

Dont think you can really pick the teams and grade them. I agree with Pidge and Chris, always better to race on the same team as your mates. Why not work out some form of handicap, like based on the sum of your license grades added together it effects how many laps you start behind other teams e.g a team of 4 F1s for example could start say 80 laps behind a team of F3s and F4s? just a thought?


that's a pretty good solution actually. i'd prefer to race with my mates, no question. i just thought it would make things more fun for everyone if they aren't too far off the pace.

[Wraggy]

I know it would be very hard if not impossible but it still would be ace to see all the f1's head to head really tired cars pushed to the limit.



ash endurance races are not like racing at nationals, where for 5 mins your 110% on the bubble , its all about getting it round cleanly therefor your probably racing at about 80% to keep it going consistant and smooth ...

[jim76]

Or f1's have to run macabushi 540 motor's f2's are aloud to run stock 27t motors f3's are only aloud to use 19t motors and f4's f5's are aloud to use modified motors. lol:D Only kidding.
A

some F4/5's would put in quicker times with the 27t Ash instead of a Mod!! :D

[Chris Doughty]

Ash, I think you are making this a bit of a witch hunt against F1's

with your idea for 'balancing' teams, it NEVER works out, there will be one of the manufactureres some how able to put together a team of ACE's that 'fit' the grade rating and pretty much guarentee victory.

quick example, Jon Hazelwood could be on the AE team, he is an F5 but at a CML Raceway meeting he only just missed the A against a lot of National F1'ers

there are so many people in the woodwork that could come out and seriously unbalance teams.

it always happens, Mark Stanly, F5 A-finalist, Nathan Ralls, he was an abnormally quick F5'er recently. Nick G, F5'er

[ashleyb4]

Im not gonig to even carry on arguing about it thats my opinion. If i carry on ill just get called a freak again.:mad:

A

[mole2k]

The more you try to even the competition the more bias'd it becomes. If you limit each team to have to have a driver from each F catagory the top teams will just have drivers who are exceptionally fast but might not have raced nationals recently. So the quick teams will still have the quick drivers and the lower teams will have even less from the pot to chose from so they will probably end up being slower.

[Chris Doughty]

sorry ash, I didn't think we were arguing.

I was just stating the reasons why 'balancing' teams does not work, its best just to leave driver teams 'open' just like any other competition.

[Chris Doughty]

The more you try to even the competition the more bias'd it becomes. If you limit each team to have to have a driver from each F catagory the top teams will just have drivers who are exceptionally fast but might not have raced nationals recently. So the quick teams will still have the quick drivers and the lower teams will have even less from the pot to chose from so they will probably end up being slower.

exactly!

its just not possible to effectively 'balance' teams.

[Chris Doughty]

the idea and the spirit of the event is to get a bunch of your race buddies together and see how well you can do.

[terry.sc]

Mixing up abilities artificially doesn't work out as you might think. From experience running enduros at my club with teams put together based on ability to even things out generally ends up with the fastest drivers doing the most laps and the slowest drivers thrown on every so often to give them a go only when the fast drivers need a break. After all if you had Neil Cragg in your team and you wanted to win you would keep him driving as long as you could get away with.

If the F1s want to race let them, I'm sure there would be several works teams running and would add to the prestige of the event. Just get a team together with a few mates and enjoy the racing, there's bound to be another team with a similar pace to run against.

[Lee Martin]

what if peopel cant find drivers from each grade!!!

if its meant to be fun. let it be fun...let people do as they wish. its the only way.

peopel have to remeber it needs to be fun for F1's too. were not some super human. we like to have a laugh aswell! more so even at times...everyone that knows me will kno i joke more than most, and thats why i love racing! but if too many rules start coming into play. call us touring cars!

i know thats off topic. but you get the idea!

[Chris Doughty]

Yes and Yes to Pidge and Terry!

[Nick Goodall]

I think just let people be in whatever team they want, it would make seriously good racing if you had say 5 really strong teams, and 5 good mixed teams - you don't have to be concerned with winning the overall meeting but just gauging yourselves against other teams on similar levels etc.

Think how much better you'll be able to drive too after racing the same track on and off for 6 hours - it will only do wonders for your driving :cool:

[ashleyb4]

Im not arguing with you either chris your alright and i do agree with you people like stan nick G are really fast f5's and that does bring a major problem.

Where you at silverstone yesterday chris i saw your dad but not sure if you where about somewhere.

A

[mole2k]

Its a fun even so just go and have some fun! Where would the fun be for the f1's if they are so throttled down to try and slow them down that they have to drive at 110% to keep up with the middle men ?

Racing handicaps isnt particularily fun, it may level the fleet but it removes the enjoyment and takes away from the spirit of racing; 'the fastest man wins'. Surely if somebodys better than somebody else they deserve to do better on the track rather than being penalised for being good?

[ashleyb4]

It would be fun to have possibly more than ten people racing at once have 20 people on at once that would be fun as keeping it clean would be more difficult and it would allow for more people to race

Possibly we could get onto one of the top uk distributors to try and put some prizes forwards for the winners. And possibly donate some of the takings to charity.

A

[Chris Doughty]

I agree with that Ash, I think could fit maybe 12 people on the bus at CML raceway...

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/cmlraceway291006/imagepages/cml031.html

[Lee Martin]

20 people on a 25 sec lap..........

its hard enough having 14 on a 40 sec lap in 8th!

[Lee Martin]

how tanned am i!!

12 couldbe done........

yesterday butch and ian hancock came over after the 8th nat and run a 12th truggy around and they want to set up a series with them! 10 min finals etc!!!

that would be cool to

[Chris Doughty]

20 people on a 25 sec lap..........

its hard enough having 14 on a 40 sec lap in 8th!

I think it would be good to have as many as sensible, each 'slot' is an extra 'team' so having 2 extra cars on track would allow an extra 12 (6 per team) possibly to come and play.

I don't think you need to cap the min or max numbers for teams either.

[ashleyb4]

Yea 20 is a bit much 12 is about right and yea it would be nice to not limit the amount of people in a team it would be cool to see if someone could do the whole 6 hours i would give it a shot aslong as i had a good pit team.

A

[mole2k]

I think you would go blind trying to race for 6 hours :D It certainly would do your consistency a lot of good.

[alrg500]

Simple handicap system would be that the lower your grade the earlier you have to start drinking or the more you have to drink during the race to avoid a penalty. :)
Fun for everyone by the end of the race.