Limit to the number of tyres you can use at Nationals

[wacattack]

For me the single biggest expense in a season is new tyres, yet to compete against either the "richer" drivers or team drivers, I really need to spend even more.

I personally dont think this is fair and would quite like there to be a limit on the number of tyres you can use per meeting.

They do it in F1 where budgets are even higher, so why not in our sport where we do it as a hobby??

What are other peoples thoughts on this?

[jim76]

think this has been suggested many times in the past. It's a great idea to keep costs down, the only problem is how to police it. The meeting organisers already have their work cut out to keep the meetings going like clockwork.

[telboy]

They do it at TC nats and other TC meetings, and it's policed very well and easily. If anything new tyres in off road are easier to spot than on road. They just mark the tyre and wheel with a coloured paint or something when the car goes through scrutineering.

[dibble34]

Got my vote too, like you say it can't be hard to mark the tyre with something.

[bodgit]

When I used to scrutineer tc cars we used to mark the wheels with permanent ink, say green for the first setof tyres and put a mark by the drivers name on a heat sheet. When the car came in after each race to be checked over if the wheels had no mark then we would dab them with another colour and mark the drivers name with 2 ticks to say he had used his allowance. If that car came in again with no mark then it would be disqualified.

[spenner]

Wayne....

Problems with number of tyres allowed - Some tracks have high wear rate and this would make the class less appealing.
What happens to drivers who make the A finals.... you are still looking at quite a few pairs..

Benefits - Makes the racing more interesting from an outsider point of view.
Keeps cost down slightly.

But......

How about 1 nominated tyre/compound ???

As Craig knows we did this at Silverstone for our weekender and it was good when the rain came down and we were all using our skills to get round as quick as possible.
Easy to police...
Keeps cost down as you don't need various compounds etc...

Just ideas but i like your thinking, but sadly this is not a cheap hobby and if you want to reach the top you need to spend a bit to get there first.

[ben]

Like said, you need people to police it.
Do you REALLY need enough tyres for a new set every run/every two runs though? 4wd at stotfold i ran the same set of tyres all day, they had done 20 minutes running round rhr before hand aswell.
Id say dont over complicate the system!

P.S you got my shock tower mount you were replacing at stotfold wayne? :confused:

[ben]

Just ideas but i like your thinking, but sadly this is not a cheap hobby and if you want to reach the top you need to spend a bit to get there first.

Agreed!! The people who are at the top of the game now have all payed for stuff at some point to get to where they are now!

[DaveG28]

The only national this year that I felt "needed" lots of tyres was Oz, but I'd be in favour of 1 nominated tyre, 6 tyres per meeting and then another 4 for A finals...

[telboy]

Wayne....

What happens to drivers who make the A finals.... you are still looking at quite a few pairs..

.......

Just ideas but i like your thinking, but sadly this is not a cheap hobby and if you want to reach the top you need to spend a bit to get there first.

Allow the A finalists ONLY to use 1 extra set for the finals, When they use it would be up to them, could make the strategy more interesting.

Not all of us have plenty on money to splash, why should this stop people like us from being on the same playing field as the top drivers? If anything this could drive some people away from racing, as they are never going to be able to run the same amount of new tyres as the faster/richer guys.

I've only used 4 sets of tyres all this year, because of low funds. But my god, on some tracks when I put one of the new sets on it made a hell of a difference and moved me up the tables.
It would be nice to have the chance to do this every meeting, but not everyone can do it. So like I said, why should this put the poorer of us at a disadvantage?

I voted for it. I think it would be a good idea.

[wacattack]

Wayne....

Problems with number of tyres allowed - Some tracks have high wear rate and this would make the class less appealing.
What happens to drivers who make the A finals.... you are still looking at quite a few pairs..

Benefits - Makes the racing more interesting from an outsider point of view.
Keeps cost down slightly.

But......

How about 1 nominated tyre/compound ???

As Craig knows we did this at Silverstone for our weekender and it was good when the rain came down and we were all using our skills to get round as quick as possible.
Easy to police...
Keeps cost down as you don't need various compounds etc...

Just ideas but i like your thinking, but sadly this is not a cheap hobby and if you want to reach the top you need to spend a bit to get there first.

I personally dont think the 1 tyre compound rule would make too much of a difference. When its dry, its yellows; When its wet its greens. Also, becasue we only run greens in the wet, tyre wear is normally pretty minimal so you can use them at another meeting with no drop in performance, making it the dry weather yellows the issue and where the costs stems

To your point about tyre wear being worse at some tracks more than others, yes I appreicate this will be the case, but 2 sets per national should easliy be enough and should actually make for some better racing.

Also, as a "reward" for making the A, then maybe allow a 3rd set for the A finalists?

And to your last point about this not being a cheap hobby, this is precisely why I've proposed this. It already costs a heck of a lot to compete and Im just thinking of ways to reduce costs so the sport can appeal to more and more people.

PS Craig said the Silverstone weekned was awesome, wish I could have made it

[ben]

Wayne.. i dont have a scenario for your poll. Money is an object to me, i pay just a little less than full price for all my tyres and other racing gear.

[wacattack]

Agreed!! The people who are at the top of the game now have all payed for stuff at some point to get to where they are now!

Why exclude people who cant afford to spend fortunes in the first place to get to the top?

[wacattack]

Like said, you need people to police it.
Do you REALLY need enough tyres for a new set every run/every two runs though? 4wd at stotfold i ran the same set of tyres all day, they had done 20 minutes running round rhr before hand aswell.
Id say dont over complicate the system!

P.S you got my shock tower mount you were replacing at stotfold wayne? :confused:

I do mate, just havent seen you around

[wacattack]

Wayne.. i dont have a scenario for your poll. Money is an object to me, i pay just a little less than full price for all my tyres and other racing gear.

Thats just my tint/humour on the response. In terms of the results I'm taking the "No" response to mean simply that

[DaveG28]

I don't see how it can be a bad thing. Let's be honest, the same guys will be in the A, the B etc, but we all spend a little less money getting there!?

[ben]

Not excluding anyone? Im in the same boat, theres no way i could afford to put a new set of tyres on every run of each national! But i make do with what i have.

If you want it to be a rule next year, you'll have to propose it to the BRCA...

[wacattack]

Not excluding anyone? Im in the same boat, theres no way i could afford to put a new set of tyres on every run of each national! But i make do with what i have.


Exactly, so why not try and create a situation that promotes a level playing field, where you dont necessarily have to "make do" with what you have because everyone is in the same boat

[DaveG28]

Not excluding anyone? Im in the same boat, theres no way i could afford to put a new set of tyres on every run of each national! But i make do with what i have.

If you want it to be a rule next year, you'll have to propose it to the BRCA...

I assume he means to do just that if he thinks it's widely supported?

[Smartalec]

Basically it's the national series and if you can't afford the running costs then you should stick to regional or even club racing.

Personally I ran every round of the series and I thought it was the cheapest year on tyres by far, I only used a couple of sets of tyres at RHR and the other astro tracks. The most expensive national was Oswestry and I only used two sets of tyres for each class.

Surely you wouldn't travel up and down the country to race a two day meeting and not put a set of new tyres on at the start of the day?. That in itself means if you run 2 and 4wd you are going to use 12 complete sets for the series at best !!!!!

As I said, it's not expensive for a national series, it's as expensive or cheap as you allow it.

On top of this, every yellow or green minispike that I used in a national heat I used again at regionals/club meets afterwards so that makes it even cheaper :thumbsup:

[DaveG28]

That at the end is true actually, Ialways reuse my tyres for regionals!!

Basically it's the national series and if you can't afford the running costs then you should stick to regional or even club racing.

Personally I ran every round of the series and I thought it was the cheapest year on tyres by far, I only used a couple of sets of tyres at RHR and the other astro tracks. The most expensive national was Oswestry and I only used two sets of tyres for each class.

Surely you wouldn't travel up and down the country to race a two day meeting and not put a set of new tyres on at the start of the day?. That in itself means if you run 2 and 4wd you are going to use 12 complete sets for the series at best !!!!!

As I said, it's not expensive for a national series, it's as expensive or cheap as you allow it.

On top of this, every yellow or green minispike that I used in a national heat I used again at regionals/club meets afterwards so that makes it even cheaper :thumbsup:

[SlowOne]

Limiting tyre choice by either compound or number actually restricts the lower-order drivers more than the top guys. Limited numbers means that you will always be at a disadvantage on those tracks where worn tyres give less performance - lower-order drivers find themselves less able to control the car and the fun factor disappears. Limiting compound has the same effect - if you're not hot on the set-ups, or can't control a car well, then driving becomes a chore, not a joy.

Level playing field - no such thing. In the last 35 years, it's been tried so many times, but it has never worked. Many of today's top drivers learnt their trade when there were no limits on tyres, and they had to pay for their huge box of tyres before their skill attracted the sponsorship they have today.

No one is denying that cost needs to be controlled as best it can in order that more people can stay in, or join, our sport. Nonetheless, other classes look down with envy at the low costs of Off-Road compared to the On-Road classes. I wish you luck, but I don't think you will find that limiting the number of tyres used will make more than a passing difference to the cost of your class, but it might well have a huge impact on the fun people get from driving their cars when they can't have the best tyres for the meeting, and have to drive a poor-handling car around for heat after heat. :)

[jim76]

Limiting tyre choice by either compound or number actually restricts the lower-order drivers more than the top guys. Limited numbers means that you will always be at a disadvantage on those tracks where worn tyres give less performance - lower-order drivers find themselves less able to control the car and the fun factor disappears. Limiting compound has the same effect - if you're not hot on the set-ups, or can't control a car well, then driving becomes a chore, not a joy.


you could argue that if that is the case then maybe they aren't ready for nationals and should practice at regionals more

[DaveG28]

I may be odd in being the opposite:

New tyres = bit quicker, fall over a lot due to grip roll

Old tyres = slower, but lovely lovely slides!!:thumbsup:

[Smartalec]

Limiting tyre choice by either compound or number actually restricts the lower-order drivers more than the top guys. Limited numbers means that you will always be at a disadvantage on those tracks where worn tyres give less performance - lower-order drivers find themselves less able to control the car and the fun factor disappears. Limiting compound has the same effect - if you're not hot on the set-ups, or can't control a car well, then driving becomes a chore, not a joy.

Level playing field - no such thing. In the last 35 years, it's been tried so many times, but it has never worked. Many of today's top drivers learnt their trade when there were no limits on tyres, and they had to pay for their huge box of tyres before their skill attracted the sponsorship they have today.

No one is denying that cost needs to be controlled as best it can in order that more people can stay in, or join, our sport. Nonetheless, other classes look down with envy at the low costs of Off-Road compared to the On-Road classes. I wish you luck, but I don't think you will find that limiting the number of tyres used will make more than a passing difference to the cost of your class, but it might well have a huge impact on the fun people get from driving their cars when they can't have the best tyres for the meeting, and have to drive a poor-handling car around for heat after heat. :)
You are EXACTLY right :thumbsup:
In off road we are actually running for far cheaper than we were years back ........... i'm older than most but i'm sure most of you can remember having 5 packs of cells costing £60 a pack, five or six different motors that needed brushes constantly and skimming, which meant either buying a lathe or paying to have them skimmed, chargers that cost the earth, discharge boards. All this and the cells only lasted a couple of months and NOBODY could buy anything like the cells that the top guys had.

We now have brushless motors (my 5.5 has never been out of the 4wd since I bought it over a year ago), lipo's (I used one for almost all of the season before buying two more off Brian Preddy second hand), my chargers cost £20 each from Hong Kong delivered to my door in four days.

Compared to a few years ago it's like racing for free, i'm all for saving money but if we're talking national level there are always going to be higher costs involved. :)

[DCM]

hmmm interesting topic. I am not in a position either financially and family wise to even contamplate doing the national series, but when looked at, you have to consider at least one full set per chassis, per meeting, if you are feeling particularly competitive, then you are talking another set or two, and on both days, that racks up to a lot of money.

I guess some will look at this as an unfair playing field, biasing the sponsored and the cheque book warrior. But I guess it is a national, and you have to take into consideration that tyres play an integral part in your cars performance.

I don't think a decent argument against it is the 'policing' argument, you all have your motors checked for legality, cells to, and voltage.... What you got to work out, would it make the National series more competitive and fun or less competitive and fun?

[Battle_axe]

hmmm interesting topic. I am not in a position either financially and family wise to even contamplate doing the national series, but when looked at, you have to consider at least one full set per chassis, per meeting, if you are feeling particularly competitive, then you are talking another set or two, and on both days, that racks up to a lot of money.

I guess some will look at this as an unfair playing field, biasing the sponsored and the cheque book warrior. But I guess it is a national, and you have to take into consideration that tyres play an integral part in your cars performance.

I don't think a decent argument against it is the 'policing' argument, you all have your motors checked for legality, cells to, and voltage.... What you got to work out, would it make the National series more competitive and fun or less competitive and fun?

I am not realy in much of a place to talk as I haven't raced at national level but will be sure to enter next year I however am sponsored so that makes the cars and electrics cheep for me. I can understand the argument here but don't think policing the tyres is the answer as you will then be left with no choice but to run new at all the nationals sometimes running worn like 4WD fronts at rhr is a good thing as new tyres then cutting them to bits is wrong and surely costing more money? Sorry for any mistakes in that the Ipad on a bumpy train isn't easy

[PaulRotheram]

Being unbiased, having done nationals and not wishing to do them at the moment due to finance, I think this is an interesting topic!

When I raced at the nationals for a few seasons I always booted up my cars with new tyres, minimal one set per car, then id change to a new set again half way through the day, doing this and managing D-E finals and the odd C I never found to be absolutely needing a set a run, or more than my average two per day (which would be reused).

The nationals is the pinacle of our hobby in our country, next being Euros and the Worlds, if people find the need to spend more money, let them do it!
If team drivers are getting discounts, or even free tyres then good on them, theyre there for a reason! Alot of team drivers actually spend MORE being sponsored than they would doing it solo as they need to have the current gear at all times, represent their company to a high standard and flaunt the products however they can, towels, logos, t-shirts, hoodies etc etc!
I've definately found myself spending less returning and doing it on my own without having to get the latest gear and represent! Now i'm not saying i'd not like to be back in that position, but you make it what you want to!

However if your competeing in the national series, I think it's only fair to expect to spend a little more if needed (bearing in mind no one is twisting your arm to do it here).
If you want to be top dog, you better go out and go for it, if your spending more money and getting no where quick, I'd say stick to regionals for a while, tune your skills, and come back for another bash.

From when I started in 2000, needing 4-6 packs of cells, a variety of motors all needing skiming, brushes, and the normal costs of tyres and spares, i'm enjoying not having to spend that sort of money each season, whereas now I can use my cells, esc + motor for many seasons if I choose to.
We all want to spend less and less money, why not? its natural to look to save a couple quid when we can! But there comes a point when everyone realises its a hobby, money is to be spent, how much depends on how much you want to!
If we limit the tyres, save a couple quid, we'l end up looking to to lock out development on our esc's and motors to save more money..

At the end of the day, you spend what you can allow for and no further!

Just my 2 pence!

[Jonesy]

Restricting the amount of tires that can be used at Nationals has been done before. When I started doing the Nationals around 1994 (yes it has been that long) you used to have to go to scruteenering before the event started with your 2 or 3 sets (can't remember) and get them marked up, nail polish was used where the wheel and tyre met.

May be best speaking to one of the BRCA officials that have ben involved for 10 years or so to see if they know why this was stopped

[spenner]

Restricting the amount of tires that can be used at Nationals has been done before. When I started doing the Nationals around 1994 (yes it has been that long) you used to have to go to scruteenering before the event started with your 2 or 3 sets (can't remember) and get them marked up, nail polish was used where the wheel and tyre met.

May be best speaking to one of the BRCA officials that have ben involved for 10 years or so to see if they know why this was stopped

Jonesy is right.....

They did do this, but it wasn't as straight forward i believe ???

I think the rule was.... you select 3 tyres for the meeting and they are what you run for that national.
This was stopped i believe as some people had tyres that weren't available to everyone ( hence the rule commercially available)..... see, all these rules come from years of improving our sport!!

[Evo_Snr]

Restricting the amount of tires that can be used at Nationals has been done before. When I started doing the Nationals around 1994 (yes it has been that long) you used to have to go to scruteenering before the event started with your 2 or 3 sets (can't remember) and get them marked up, nail polish was used where the wheel and tyre met.

May be best speaking to one of the BRCA officials that have ben involved for 10 years or so to see if they know why this was stopped

Andy I think you find it was two sets with an extra set if you made the “A” final.
These were made up of any make and any compound ( so you had to carry loads of tyres,)
Which made it more expensive than it is today

[telboy]

Basically it's the national series and if you can't afford the running costs then you should stick to regional or even club racing.




So you're saying that if you're a bit short on cash then you shouldn't even think about doing nats?:thumbdown:
Thats a great attitude to have.

Just because people are less 'well off' than others doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to participate in nats.

[Si Coe]

Limiting tyre choice by either compound or number actually restricts the lower-order drivers more than the top guys. Limited numbers means that you will always be at a disadvantage on those tracks where worn tyres give less performance - lower-order drivers find themselves less able to control the car and the fun factor disappears. Limiting compound has the same effect - if you're not hot on the set-ups, or can't control a car well, then driving becomes a chore, not a joy.:)

Except that most club racers are quite used to running tyres until they are almost bald!
Lets be clear about this - a set of yellow minispikes after a full meeting are still very grippy and have lost very little control - they are just slightly slower than brand new ones.

[PaulRotheram]

Indeed that is the wrong way of thinking, however hopefully he didnt mean it to sound as bad!

The way I see it is if your pretty stuck on cash you can still do the nationals and pull the cat out the bag, but to get right up 'there' you do need abit of wonga, or a sponsorship, without a doubt!

[WHITTLER555]

FACT - There is an economic recession on.

FACT - More people put entries into the National series in 2010 than any other year, see PW for actual stats.

Go figure?????

[DaveG28]

FACT - There is an economic recession on.

FACT - More people put entries into the National series in 2010 than any other year, see PW for actual stats.

Go figure?????

Wow, you are serious about facts Rafa :thumbsup: actually, with a goaty I reckon it'd be a good impression:woot:

[Timee80]

I dont do nationals but hopefully will do if i ever feel im good enough to take part. I dont really see the point in this thread TBH. Surely the biggest cost in doing nationals is petrol getting to and from the venues, and hotel accommodation / food and drink, while you are away. The cost of an extra set of rubber on this is surely negligable when you take this into account.
If you can afford to get to these meetings, you can afford another set of tyres

[wacattack]

I dont do nationals but hopefully will do if i ever feel im good enough to take part. I dont really see the point in this thread TBH. Surely the biggest cost in doing nationals is petrol getting to and from the venues, and hotel accommodation / food and drink, while you are away. The cost of an extra set of rubber on this is surely negligable when you take this into account.
If you can afford to get to these meetings, you can afford another set of tyres

Hardly, unless you say in 5 star accommodation wherever you go??

Cutting out £30 on a race weekened (extra set of tyres for sat and sun) is a nice saving in my eyes

[ashleyb4]

The scruitineers at meeting have enough to do checking weight, battery and motor legality and lipo voltage nevermind tyre usage silly sugestion imo

[ben]

The scruitineers at meeting have enough to do checking weight, battery and motor legality and lipo voltage nevermind tyre usage silly sugestion imo

Good point ash!
Sometimes i feel im being rushed at the best of times through scruitineering! The last thing the scruitineers want to be doing in the 5 minute slot is to be checking/marking/labeling 20 pairs of tyres!!!

It aint gonna work i dont think

[ben]

Hardly, unless you say in 5 star accommodation wherever you go??

Cutting out £30 on a race weekened (extra set of tyres for sat and sun) is a nice saving in my eyes

Surely you would want to give yourself the best chance at doing well at a national? Is £30 really that much?

[Evo_Snr]

It doesn’t matter what rules you put in place the cream will always be at the top. :p:p

[wacattack]

Surely you would want to give yourself the best chance at doing well at a national? Is £30 really that much?


Let me put it another way then.

A full set of tyres for 2wd & 4wd will cost £30
A second set £60
Third set £90
4th set £120

What I'm saying is should somebody be able to have a competitive advantage because they are either given for free or prepared to spend £120 on tyres?

My proposal is to remove this advantage to make it more of a leveller

[Smartalec]

Let me put it another way then.

A full set of tyres for 2wd & 4wd will cost £30
A second set £60
Third set £90
4th set £120

What I'm saying is should somebody be able to have a competitive advantage because they are either given for free or prepared to spend £120 on tyres?

My proposal is to remove this advantage to make it more of a leveller
It won't make it a leveller, the top racers will still win because they are better drivers, not because they get tyres cheap/for free.

[wacattack]

It won't make it a leveller, the top racers will still win because they are better drivers, not because they get tyres cheap/for free.

Erm, I'm not saying tyres are what will make everyone drive to the same ability!!

What I'm saying is you could get an advantage over others by the number of tyres you choose to use, whereas others who can't afford to do that have to suffer.

And if the top drivers will still rise to the top, then that's an even better result. People have more cash in their pocket and the best drivers still reign supreme

[PaulUpton]

I think the poll is wrong anyway in my opionion, the way it is written makes you want to click yes.

I think there should be a option of "ill only spend as much as i want to spend on tyres"

[Smartalec]

So you're saying that if you're a bit short on cash then you shouldn't even think about doing nats?:thumbdown:
Thats a great attitude to have.

Just because people are less 'well off' than others doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to participate in nats.
It's the only attitude to have if you're strapped for cash!!!......... why would you bother driving hundreds of miles up and down the country if you can't afford to compete properly?, doesn't make sense to me. You'd be better off doing club meetings and regionals and actually enjoying it rather than going to a national and not being able to do your best because of your budget :confused:

Unfortunately money plays a part in everything we do in life and unless your lucky enough to have loads of it then for most of us we can only dream of doing the things we'd love to do ........... I'd love to do all sorts of things but I can't because I can't afford it, but I can afford to race model cars at national level. I use a tent and camp out, the Travelodge's are cheap but if you take away that cost and put it into tyres that would make more sense.

We're probably only talking about an extra set of tyres per class so it's an extra £15 or £20 per day, hardly anyone (including the top boys) uses a set a run anymore because there is usually more grip than even they can handle. How much would you expect to spend at an average national?

We've all got two (at least) cars, complete with expensive radio gear, top notch speedo's/motors/servo's, it all costs far more than a couple of extra pairs of tyres. You can have all the best equipment in the world but without grip the things are useless and as said before, if you think you'll level the playing field by limiting the amount of tyres then think again because the best will always be the best, they didn't get there because they had tyres thrown at them for free, they got there because they were good. If you take away the grip, they'll still win, just by a bigger margin because the rest of us will suffer. :thumbdown:

The more the merrier at national level, i'd never want to put anyone off entering but if you want to compete properly you'll have to spend some money on the basic running costs i'm afraid :)

[Smartalec]

Erm, I'm not saying tyres are what will make everyone drive to the same ability!!

What I'm saying is you could get an advantage over others by the number of tyres you choose to use, whereas others who can't afford to do that have to suffer.

And if the top drivers will still rise to the top, then that's an even better result. People have more cash in their pocket and the best drivers still reign supreme
In your opinion Wayne what would be a sensible amount of tyres to limit each national too? :)

[bigred5765]

i think if your that keen on winning you would make sacrifices to get the tires you need,limiting the number of tires wont level anything just make everyone use tire compounds that last longer making the slower slower and the fast guys slower,if your into the sport enough to want to winning you would make sure you had enough tires, we as a family haven't had a proper holiday in years the money goes on our hobby,

[mattybucks]

It's the only attitude to have if you're strapped for cash!!!......... why would you bother driving hundreds of miles up and down the country if you can't afford to compete properly?, doesn't make sense to me. You'd be better off doing club meetings and regionals and actually enjoying it rather than going to a national and not being able to do your best because of your budget :confused:

Unfortunately money plays a part in everything we do in life and unless your lucky enough to have loads of it then for most of us we can only dream of doing the things we'd love to do ........... I'd love to do all sorts of things but I can't because I can't afford it, but I can afford to race model cars at national level. I use a tent and camp out, the Travelodge's are cheap but if you take away that cost and put it into tyres that would make more sense.

We're probably only talking about an extra set of tyres per class so it's an extra £15 or £20 per day, hardly anyone (including the top boys) uses a set a run anymore because there is usually more grip than even they can handle. How much would you expect to spend at an average national?

We've all got two (at least) cars, complete with expensive radio gear, top notch speedo's/motors/servo's, it all costs far more than a couple of extra pairs of tyres. You can have all the best equipment in the world but without grip the things are useless and as said before, if you think you'll level the playing field by limiting the amount of tyres then think again because the best will always be the best, they didn't get there because they had tyres thrown at them for free, they got there because they were good. If you take away the grip, they'll still win, just by a bigger margin because the rest of us will suffer. :thumbdown:

The more the merrier at national level, i'd never want to put anyone off entering but if you want to compete properly you'll have to spend some money on the basic running costs i'm afraid :)


I agree, at least someone talking sense.

[bodgit]

I dont think that limiting the number of tyres each driver can use to reduce the costs would level the field. Apart from skill what can you do about someone who can only afford a low-mid range priced speedo or old cell batteries for that matter who happens to be in the same heat as someone who can throw money around and buy the very best speedo and lipo,s available.
Money will always play a big part in rc and you go into it knowing what you can or cannot afford. Skill cant be bought.

[Richard Lowe]

I wish we could put a limit on it somehow, but I think a better way would be to set the control tyre as something that will last all day easily. Didn't schumacher used to do a compound harder than blue (red?), that way if they didn't wear there'd be no reason for everyone to keep throwing new tyres on.

The only time I think people would really struggle for grip would be a worn grass track, but on the other hand that might make that kind of track more interesting to race on :p

I do get a bit off my tyres but it's still the biggest expense for me at nationals, on average I'll use more than 80 pairs over a season (assuming it's all dry, rain my increase that number), which at retail is approaching £600 - and thats too much IMO.

The other issue we have thats making people use more is how competitive the series is, don't get me wrong this is a fantastic thing and makes a good result even better. The top 20 or so are now all so close everyone is looking for that last little bit of performance and an easy way to get that a lot of the time is new rubber, a couple of seconds over a couple of runs can make the difference between back of the A or top of the B, and you can't win the meeting from the B...

[KRob]

Get rid of tarmac!!

The thing that makes me cry when I get to a track is the use of tarmac as a surface. In my view it adds little as a racing surface other than to wear the tyres faster.

I appreciate that newer tyres will always give more drive but for those not hunting out the top 10 a slightly worn set will be easier to drive - but not if they wear out in one run.

There are some tracks on the national calendar that use tarmac but I don't feel it adds anything to the racing. Cobbles, a bit of concrete, some slabs okay but hard cornering or acceleration on tarmac does nothing for me but wear out the tyres faster.

Minor rant over...

[/tobys]

How about introducing a price limit on the control tyres?

Schumacher and Ballistics are £8 a pair (rears) whilst the new Fastrax at £6. I know that is not a massive difference but it all helps over the course of the season.

Tyres alway has and always will be one of the biggest costs of racing competitively - it's a fact of life.

[RogerM]

Firstly I have to say I agree with Keith on the tarmac thing. Kkidderminster is still my favourite track in the country (not been to RHR but believe it's meant to be great, maybe next year) but when I look at the layout first thing in the morning my eye is always drawn to the tarmac section with the thought of "how will that be on tires today". In recent visits they guys laying down the track have really worked at limiting the impact of the tarmac on the tires and tire wear has been fine. I do remember the days where you HAD to put a new set of BB minipins on EVERY run and could feel the car getting loose at 4mins, no desire to go back there!!!

Ok, so I voted for yes mainly as I have raised this a few times over the years myself.

Will it effect the A / B finals, no .. those guys could beat most of us with the box an optima came in even if it had been left out in the rain since 1986!

Where the difference is most felt is lower down the order. It is perfectly possible for 2 drivers of equal ability, the same equipment and hangover levels to be separated by 20 places in the overall standings say one in the E the other in the G simply due to one being able to put a set of new rubber on each run and the other not.
Nationals are SOOOOO close throughout the field, even more so than when I used to do the whole season every year that it can and does make a difference.

I can see both points of view, Alex is right in what he says ... lets face it Lee Martin and Ellis would be there or there abouts no matter what they ran and if you think your knocking on that particular door then a set of boots isn't a lot to pay to have it opened.

Now, many of use set much more subtle targets like trying to make a final after the 2nd leg of the A .... no matter if we had a new set of tires, fresh motor and brand new car for each and every run would we ever be chasing Neil Cragg round nose to bumper but if the guy next to use has a healthier bank balance we'll not be chasing him either.

So I believe it is a good idea, would make no difference to the title fight and maybe attract more people to give nationals a go.
Hell I even think it should be like that at regionals too. Lets be honest now, how many of you would put brand new tires on every run at regionals anyway? The top boys will be using national cast offs and still making the A on ability.

Just my 2ps worth

[RogerM]

How about introducing a price limit on the control tyres?

Schumacher and Ballistics are £8 a pair (rears) whilst the new Fastrax at £6. I know that is not a massive difference but it all helps over the course of the season.

Tyres alway has and always will be one of the biggest costs of racing competitively - it's a fact of life.

That is a diffiuclt thing to arrange.

Only way that could work is if you bought your tires for nationals at the same time as entering the event and the BRCA reps negotiating a "bulk buy discount" with the suppliers.

Problems with that are;

1) Would make pre-paid entry expensive (each event being £10+ say £40 for 2 sets of discounted tires = £50 a day .. £100 a weekend = £600 to find at entry time in January when we are all skint from Xmas!).

2) Somebody running the nationals would have to transport and hand out nearly 1000 sets of tires per weekend ... that would be a pain for them if they drive anything much smaller than a big estate car (120 drivers, 2 sets of each of the 2 nominated tires per driver per day + a few spares to cover the ineveitable issues is easily 1000 tires a weekend!)

3) Said BRCA guy would have to store 6000 sets at the start of the year or rely on the suppliers always having stock on a "just in time" basis ... not sure any of them would sign up for that!!!

Without pre-payment it would be an unacceptable hit on the BRCA sections bank balance ... just think how much they would loose if they bought all those yellows (for example) out of their funds and EVERY event was wet needing greens!

+ probably dozens of other valid problems I've not thought of probably involving the finacial side of thing.

Unfortunately nobody is getting rich from being in this industry so I doubt you would get much of a discount anyway.

[simoncrabb]

Ahh, this old debate :-)

I think the big thing isn't whether tyres are new, about getting the right setup for the tyres on that particular track, and then having the talent to drive that setup combination quickly.

All of that comes down to experience and talent. The top guys can do is consistently, whilst us amateurs get one or more things wrong and we're a couple of seconds a lap behind them.

Even if it was more tightly controlled tyres it would still be about getting all your ducks in a line and doing it right.

Comparing to touring cars isn't quite the same, as new tyres can be seriously quicker, and talent has less of a factor - they're much easier to drive than off-road in my opinion.

As for attracting more people to do the nationals, looking at this years popularity it's more of a case who can get in, there's no shortage of people willing to spend however much it costs to do a season - whatever they're own personal goals.

In regionals trying to reduce the costs might make more sense - for me regionals are MORE expensive than nationals - and they're not full unlike the nationals.

[/tobys]

That is a diffiuclt thing to arrange.


Nothing to arrange, it becomes a requirement for tyres nominated as the control tyre. No discount, bulk-buying etc required. There is max price on batts, so why not tyres?

If Fastrax can do cheap(er) tyres, others can too..?

I don't do Nationals (too expensive and family/work commitments preclude me), so merely throwing in some suggestions for debate. By the same token, I haven't voted in the poll.

[simoncrabb]

Actually, the main reason I voted Yes, was just to make it simpler.

Less tyre choice (and we have a LOT of combinations currently, compound + insert etc..) just makes less variables to content with to get a driveable setup.

But should Nationals be simple? Not really, it should be the ultimate test of all skills for the best in the country.

[Si Coe]

Thing is, there are only really two disadvantages to this:

1) Its a pain to scrutineer. Thats a fair point, but other classes manage so it can't be that bad.

2) You can't gain an advantage over someone who can't afford fresh rubber.

I'm not sure it won't impact on who is in the A-Final though. It might make the A much more interesting by adding a tactical element to qualifying. We all know that grip levels on a track can vary through the day due to heat and weather - choosing the right round to play your fresh boots could leap you up the rankings. That would lead to us seeing a few new faces up there in the A, because they got the tactics right.
Whether that is a good or bad thing depends on your opinion of course......

[cmgreen]

I personally think racing has got cheaper over the last few years, with the introduction of brushless and lipos. Before it was 3-5 motors per season plus a new set of batteries every year plus tyres! So i dont mind a new set every meeting and if it needs 2 sets then so be it. But i dont do the nationals due to time.

It would be interesting if the rule set out only one set per meeting, therefore its the same for everyone........... my 2 pence

[Hulk]

In my opinion i believe some form of control over tyres would be a good thing. I recently raced at the Silverstone weekender event (which was excellent by the way) and the only tyre allowed all day were the new Fastrax tyres. This made for some really interesting racing as the weather was changing from one minute to the next. You didnt have to worry about which tyres to go out on if it started raining as you were only allowed to use the control tyre. This just left driver ability and set up knowledge to determine who the fast guys were. It was really nice to go to a meeting where you didnt have to buy two different compounds for the wet or dry, you just put the control ones on and leave them all day.

As for limiting the number of tyres this would be a really good idea from a cost point of view. People say the numbers are high for nationals but the vast majority of people racing at nationls are the same people who were doing then 10-20 years ago. There is a lack of youngsters racing these days at all levels of racing and a big factor in this has to be down to cost. If i had kids now theres no way i could afford for them to be having new tyres nearly every run for them to be competative.

As someone mentioned earlier the real problem is maybe not down to the amount of tyres you can run but down to the cost of tyres themselves. Schumacher have had a monopoly for far too long and for that reason have been able to charge whatever they want. I for one would love to see the profit Schumacher make from selling tyres, i bet its huge!!

We can all make suggestions and argue out points, but in reality nothing is going to change, toy car racing is a business and businesses are out to make profit. Limiting the number of tyres or anything we use in our hobby will not go down well with any business.

[cmgreen]

I think the only way to change somthing is to propose it at the Brca AGM.

Wouldnt it be easier to just have one set of tyres per meeting allowing the usage of any manufacturer any compound, once checked in scrutineering thats it. ?????

[Chequered Flag Racing]

If the nationals go for a control tyre would that include the foam insert also or would you want a free choice on them?

If inserts are free choice then drivers could end up with several sets of control tyres with different inserts so up goes the cost again unless you limit it to two sets of tyres per meeting.

[hashiriya]

Wouldnt it be easier to just have one set of tyres per meeting allowing the usage of any manufacturer any compound, once checked in scrutineering thats it. ?????

And if they turned out to be the wrong choice... would your day be over before it even started?

[cmgreen]

And if they turned out to be the wrong choice... would your day be over before it even started?

Your call?? Your Problem..............

just an idea...........

[MattW]

Schumacher have had a monopoly for far too long and for that reason have been able to charge whatever they want. I for one would love to see the profit Schumacher make from selling tyres, i bet its huge!!

I bet it isn't!!! I'm not 100% sure where they are made, but I believe it is in the UK (it certainly was a few years ago, and I haven't had any reason to ask since), and on that basis, there is no way that there will be as much money in it as people would like to believe.

This might surprise some, but personally I wouldn't be against a limit on the number of tyres - I think it's a decent idea. However you hide behind it, on some tracks, new rubber is worth a lot, and it always will be. Tyres are hugely important - they are the only thing in contact with the track.

The limit works in on road, they employ the following method at Nationals. The driver takes their tyres to be marked before you run them - all wheels have the driver's BRCA number written on them. They are marked, and you sign for them. Then when scrutineering, they just have to see the mark and the correct BRCA number, and it's JD.

I think i'm right in saying that when the 2 set limit was in place before, there wasn't nominated tyres. I think it would work today - but maybe need an extra person to do the marking.

I do find people's resentment of Schumacher tyres quite funny. It's no secret that I drive for them, and have done for a while. There 2.2 Minispike has been the tyre of choice for many years - got to be 15+. In all that time, no one has bettered it. GRP had a go and gave up, now CML have also bought something out. I don't blame them at all. However, the impression i've seen from all those that have tried it are saying that it might be as good. That doesn't say much really does it.

[/tobys]

A reduction in the cost of tyres would benefit racers at virtually every level - this has only got to be good for the longevity and future of our 'sport'.

[cmgreen]

[QUOTE=MattW;412123]I bet it isn't!!! I'm not 100% sure where they are made, but I believe it is in the UK (it certainly was a few years ago, and I haven't had any reason to ask since), and on that basis, there is no way that there will be as much money in it as people would like to believe.

QUOTE]

I would put my neck on the line and say £2.50 max per set of tyre to make after all costs have been taken into consideration.

[jaywestwood]

hi,
Why dont off road do exactly what tc have done in allowing x amount of tyres to be used but have them all pre glued???
same wheels
same inserts
same rubber
its then down to driver/racer to look after there allocated tyres for the event....
cost would be reduced
level playing field (ppl prob still complain)
scrutineer them before run and just get on and enjoy racing :)

[Robfo]

Well one reason would be that different cars use different wheel fitments and offsets so one prebuilt tyre wouldnt work. Although i do agree with a tyre limit, when i raced TC the tyre limit was a very positive step forward and i cant see why it shouldnt be put into place for offroad too.

[WHITTLER555]

What happens if you want to use 3 pairs of new tyres and 3 pairs of used tyres from the previous National?

[MattADH]

I remember at Kidderminster when BB Pins were the fast tyre in the dry, when it rained, there were some drivers who had used up all their allocation and could hardly get round in the wet. The Pins wore quickly and were not the tyre for the wet!

After many years of National racing, I look back at series' when we have had no tyre rule, two sets of tyres rule and now the two types of tyre rule. I have to say that its pretty good at the moment. Gone are the years of taking a bootful of tyres and not using them. At least we know what we need to take and some venues you only need one of the two choices as compound options choices are good for both the wet and dry.

I agree that limiting types of tyre has benefitted the class. Looking at 1:8 off-road at present, they are going through the same issues that we had in 1:10 off-road many years ago. There are so many hundreds of combinations of manufacturer, tread pattern, compound, insert and wheel!

I wonder if they will follow the lead of 1:10 off-road and touring car by limiting what can be used..

[MattW]

cmgreen - you might well be right (I genuinely have no idea!!). So then let's look at the chain. The company that makes them want to make a profit when they sell them to Schumacher, Schumacher want to make a profit when they sell them to shops, and shops want to make a profit when they sell them to end users.

The point that all the above happening, is the point that at which one of those members of the chain stops bothering - and at that point, there are no tyres.

I'm a racer like everyone else, and I pay for 99% of my kit, and just like everyone else, I'd like to make my racing as cheap as possible. I just think that sometimes you have to be realistic.

To put another slant on it, I'd be surprised if the margins in any of the tyres available (Schumacher, Fastrax, Ballistic Buggy etc) are much different.

Jay, Prebuilts are a new concept to off road really. It's only very recently that they have been available at all. I don't think there is much of a desire to go that way from Off Road drivers.

[BuggyMaster]

Hmmm....

its no suprise that the people that spend the most or are sponsored are higher up the finishing order than people with 'sencible budgets'?

It's an old saying but you really can buy your results!

Buggymaster

[bigred5765]

Hmmm....

its no suprise that the people that spend the most or are sponsored are higher up the finishing order than people with 'sencible budgets'?

It's an old saying but you really can buy your results!

Buggymaster
not really i know of people running new tires almost every run that make the f'g'h final at nationals

[jondell]

I find that controlled tyres can actually increase cost for joe public rather than reduce.... might sound a bit odd, but if you said 2 sets per race and the tyres got marked before you raced, then you have to start out with a new set. A few have commented that at certain meeting they did not fit new tyres by choice. Racers must always chose how much they wish to spend, not be ruled into it.

So heres a thought..... limit sets per season, bit like engines in F1/motogp. Some tracks tries wear, some dont. Limits the maximum cost for all, but also means if you dont want to put on new tires, you dont have to.

For every event you get to sign in a max of 2 sets of tires (2wd or 4wd). They get marked and every time you run, you must have 20xx marked tires. Should you only sign in 1 set of tires at an race, the other set will roll onto the next race. If you make the A final, you are allowed 1 extra set of tyres, but this set is to be marked in a different way and can not be used again at a different race meeting.

[jondell]

Another point that i would like to make is that 10th is in a way better situation than all other high level classes. Whilst it is not cheap to race 10th off road, it is currently a very affordable class to race at the moment and i cant see this changing for a while.

8th on the other hand has a few problems in this area at the moment... far to many tire manufactures are around to be able to be able to effectively introduce a controlled tires format and a either case a much higher retail price per set (£50 to £60) makes fitting new tires expensive for joe public. Often we see A-B finalists using or trying 3 or more sets of tires per national.... thats a few quid

[Reevsey]

Having done 10th nats for many years where we are today is the best possible place, we have had a tyre rule that is consistent for every track and for the last couple of years, BB spike & Schumacher Mini spike, i can remember the days when we had Losi tyres at Kiddy, Proline/BB mini pin tyres at Tiverton and basically Schumacher mini spike and BB spike for all other tracks, all for one season!! not to mention if you went to a euros then you had a different tyre again. At the end of every season i ended up with tyres that i could not use over the winter and lots of money tied up in tyres that would wait for next years nats to use them up.

Now as some will know when i am at a national i am not shy when it comes to fitting new boots, but i don't see this as actualy costing me any more than a tyre rule would that limted tyres. If i where to do the same amount of 1/10th scale racing year on year with a tyre rule v No tyre rule all that would hapen is i would use less new ones at nationals but more new tyres at regionals and club meetings/winter series as i would not have as many part worn ones to use from nats. Over the course of the year i would use the same amount of tyres. So to conclude we could make nationals cheaper but would it really make your racing cheaper over the course of a year?

[ben]

Having done 10th nats for many years where we are today is the best possible place, we have had a tyre rule that is consistent for every track and for the last couple of years, BB spike & Schumacher Mini spike, i can remember the days when we had Losi tyres at Kiddy, Proline/BB mini pin tyres at Tiverton and basically Schumacher mini spike and BB spike for all other tracks, all for one season!! not to mention if you went to a euros then you had a different tyre again. At the end of every season i ended up with tyres that i could not use over the winter and lots of money tied up in tyres that would wait for next years nats to use them up.

Now as some will know when i am at a national i am not shy when it comes to fitting new boots, but i don't see this as actualy costing me any more than a tyre rule would that limted tyres. If i where to do the same amount of 1/10th scale racing year on year with a tyre rule v No tyre rule all that would hapen is i would use less new ones at nationals but more new tyres at regionals and club meetings/winter series as i would not have as many part worn ones to use from nats. Over the course of the year i would use the same amount of tyres. So to conclude we could make nationals cheaper but would it really make your racing cheaper over the course of a year?

Cheers for that Reevsey, you can return to the rostrum now! Dont want you getting withdrawal symptoms!

[wiliamconnorl]

Having done 10th nats for many years where we are today is the best possible place, we have had a tyre rule that is consistent for every track and for the last couple of years, BB spike & Schumacher Mini spike, i can remember the days when we had Losi tyres at Kiddy, Proline/BB mini pin tyres at Tiverton and basically Schumacher mini spike and BB spike for all other tracks, all for one season!! not to mention if you went to a euros then you had a different tyre again. At the end of every season i ended up with tyres that i could not use over the winter and lots of money tied up in tyres that would wait for next years nats to use them up.

Now as some will know when i am at a national i am not shy when it comes to fitting new boots, but i don't see this as actualy costing me any more than a tyre rule would that limted tyres. If i where to do the same amount of 1/10th scale racing year on year with a tyre rule v No tyre rule all that would hapen is i would use less new ones at nationals but more new tyres at regionals and club meetings/winter series as i would not have as many part worn ones to use from nats. Over the course of the year i would use the same amount of tyres. So to conclude we could make nationals cheaper but would it really make your racing cheaper over the course of a year?

cheers mate great to know that

[TheReferee]

If you want a rule propose it, get someone to second it and then vote for it at the AGM.

however make sure you cover all the what ifs, for example your proposal is for 3 sets per national and a driver suffers a blow out on a tyre can he get a fourth set?, we have all seen tyres split so its not exactly a rare occurance.
you might think ok thats fair enough in the event of a tyre failure we will allow a replacement. of course no driver would deliberately cut a tyre causing a failure would he?.

remember also your proposal has to be implemented, how are they marked can it be copied and therefor could an extra set could be counterfeited in?.

how long would it take to get 120 drivers tyres marked and when and by who?. 1 minutes a set to register driver and mark of on list, mark with whatever, allow to dry, 120 x 1min=2 hours. if your last in the queue you just missed round one!.

don't get me wrong if you the racers want something then we the organisers will try to do it. however just voting on a simplistic proposal such as the one suggested is pointless.

for example i propose we run five rounds of qualifying instead of four. i will propose it at the agm get someone to second it. i am sure if we put it to the vote we could get a yes vote. unfortunately we cant implement it because it gets dark before we finish!!. now there are ways round it. start round one earlier?, ensure all clubs have floodlights?, cancel the lower finals?.

your tyre proposal comes under the same set of problems, yes we could have one but it isn't simple and will take a lot of effort in ensuring a system that works and is robust enough not to cause problems later on.

so propose away but make sure it is a detailed proposal that covers all the bases

[Smartalec]

If you want a rule propose it, get someone to second it and then vote for it at the AGM.

however make sure you cover all the what ifs, for example your proposal is for 3 sets per national and a driver suffers a blow out on a tyre can he get a fourth set?, we have all seen tyres split so its not exactly a rare occurance.
you might think ok thats fair enough in the event of a tyre failure we will allow a replacement. of course no driver would deliberately cut a tyre causing a failure would he?.

remember also your proposal has to be implemented, how are they marked can it be copied and therefor could an extra set could be counterfeited in?.

how long would it take to get 120 drivers tyres marked and when and by who?. 1 minutes a set to register driver and mark of on list, mark with whatever, allow to dry, 120 x 1min=2 hours. if your last in the queue you just missed round one!.

don't get me wrong if you the racers want something then we the organisers will try to do it. however just voting on a simplistic proposal such as the one suggested is pointless.

for example i propose we run five rounds of qualifying instead of four. i will propose it at the agm get someone to second it. i am sure if we put it to the vote we could get a yes vote. unfortunately we cant implement it because it gets dark before we finish!!. now there are ways round it. start round one earlier?, ensure all clubs have floodlights?, cancel the lower finals?.

your tyre proposal comes under the same set of problems, yes we could have one but it isn't simple and will take a lot of effort in ensuring a system that works and is robust enough not to cause problems later on.

so propose away but make sure it is a detailed proposal that covers all the bases
Well said ref :thumbsup:

[antnee]

It's the top end of our sport, the richest always have the best chance. Ferrari & mclaren, man utd & chelsea, etc

[Wraggy]

It's the top end of our sport, the richest always have the best chance. Ferrari & mclaren, man utd & chelsea, etc
think you will find alot of it is down to the driver not the money u throw at it ...

[DaveG28]

think you will find alot of it is down to the driver not the money u throw at it ...

And ironically, Ferrari and Mclaren have tyre limits imposed as well....the argument it would be too hard to do may be valid, but the one that it's the pinnacle doesn't work for me, this is toys, in 1:1 racing virtually no major series has unlimited tyres, F1/indycar/touring cars, I don't see how if it's good for them it's bad for this.

The difference is they are only dealing with 20/30 cars each, and have the tyre manufacturer there to help police, so yes maybe it's too difficult for us, but still a good idea in my mind!

[Smartalec]

One of the main problems is of course at places like RHR where after round one this year I was sorting through my box of tyres to find a set WORN enough so I didn't grip role everywhere. This of course couldn't happen if i'd already had the new sets scrutineered so i'd end up cutting off ridiculous amounts of spikes from a new set that would probably not last the meeting and certainly wouldn't be any good for any regionals afterwards.

Get a grip guys (pun), no one uses silly amounts of tyres anymore and the savings that we've made elsewhere in the hobby more than cover the tyre costs anyway. :woot:

[matdodd]

Get a grip guys (pun), no one uses silly amounts of tyres anymore and the savings that we've made elsewhere in the hobby more than cover the tyre costs anyway. :woot:

Are you sure mate? Ive seen people use 7 full sets of tyres a day at nationals this year! Thats over £200 in tyres and foams in a weekend :o

[flipside]

Ok I'm not even from the UK, but I did 3 nationals in the past years. I never had to use many tyres though... Last race was eden park where you have lots of different surfaces, never felt the need to put new tyres on every run (and made c final in both classes).

It's true that taking new tyres is an easy solution to shave a few seconds of your times, but imo there are lots of other things to do that will have a much bigger impact.

The scrutineering argument is so true. Also the problem with blown tyres, or damaged rims. In the end you will come up with something like allow 3 sets of tyres to be used, which probably is more or equal to the amount you're using already. What to do when it starts raining, etc...

It's not because some people use a new set every run, that you have to do it too. Some top guys just do that to make sure the car is 100% the same each run, not because it's supposed to be faster.

Tyres definatly are a big chunk in the racing budget, but I don't think you will save loads of money by introducing a tyre rule. If you see what stuff people spend their money on that is totally useless (but for example just looks cooler), I think there are better ways to save money. I also don't think there will be people ending up much higher if there would be a tyre rule. At least I don't believe I would have had better results just by taking a new set each run.

Maybe you can also make a rule for how many cars everyone can use in one year :-) Probably many top drivers take new stuff all the time, which is something the majority of us also can't. And that affects your race times too.

I don't think any rule can take away the 'feeling' that some people are faster just because they have a bigger racing budget...

[TryHard]

To add to MattW's previous posts, coming from the TC side...

You don't have to submit new boots to be scrutineered. Plenty of TC guys submit old sets for a weekend. As long as they have the correct mark for the meeting (on the outside of the wheel, for ease of looking at, along with the BRCA number), it's fine!
For example, I've got a set of wet tyres that have been used once, and now have marks on them from 7 nationals (will be 8 next weekend)... thats well over a year now!

Effectively, any previous event marks are ignored... if you want to save the allocation for new sets only, feel free (and in all honesty, in TC most do go new), if you want to use old (due to finance, track conditions etc), then thats groovey too :p

In terms of scrutineering, there's also no requirement to have all the sets marked up at the start of the day... just the one your going to use for your first run. If you want to run more, then mark them up as needed... as long as the car goes through scrutineering with a mark on the wheel, no problem.

I will be honest, and will say that the system used does require usually an extra person to help out in terms of marking sets, but where there's a will, there's a way.. right?

I'd certainly agree a pre-mount would most likely not be the right way to go, it's not like TC with a 12mm hex on every single car on the market, lol... but a simple limiting of the sets per meeting, surely can only help to sustain the popularity of the nationals? and mean more ££ for beer... and who doens't like that? :D

Ed

[Smartalec]

Are you sure mate? Ive seen people use 7 full sets of tyres a day at nationals this year! Thats over £200 in tyres and foams in a weekend :o
There will always be someone (not always at the top either) that uses a set a round but they are certainly few and far between, unlike years ago when a set per round was the norm :bored: