Newbie needs help and advice :)

[Diwrnach]

Hi there, returning to RC cars after an extremely long break, last car I had was a Tamiya super sabre, and before that a Tamiya Super champ, just to give you some idea of how behind in the times I am :)

My daughter is now coming up to 4 years old, and is showing alot of interest in building things, messing with eletrics/electronics etc, and also in rc cars, so figured why not buy her a car kit for christmas we can build together! perfect, as I love building things as well.

We watched a few videos on youtube and straight away she was "and we can race together like that" so, car for me as well I guess.

Now I live just outside Stratford upon Avon, and apparantly there is a fairly new track open at Longmarston airfield, its an offroad coarse, and from what I can gather runs at least 2wd and 4wd off-road stuff (though I do need to get down there when theyre racing and find out for sure).

So for my daughter I figured a Mad Bull would suit her about perfect, strong and fun.

But for me, I would like something I can also mess about with her with, but also have a go at racing.

Here is where it gets difficult, definately want a kit, not a rtr car (though the rtr seem ALOT cheaper for some reason?) and I am slowly going loopy trying to decide what to get.

I'm on a limeted budget, so to be honest would like to go the cheapest route possible, not to concerned with being winner every race, but also dont want to stand no chance at all.

So I have kind of whittled it down a bit, thinking maybe a DF-03 Dark Impact, or at a push the DB-01 Durga, but thats really pushing my budget as I would need ESC as well.

Then there is the 2wd Tamiyas, DT-02 Desert Gator, and the Schumaker Cougar SVm but again thats pushing maybe a touch high on budget as it needs lipo batterys, and wanted to share charger with daughters car instead of having seperate ones, plus the ESC and motor.

Also the Associated B4, this model really confuses me, as the rtr ones, the 4.1 is it? is quite a good deal, with everything included, but I REALLY want to build it myself, and the kit is a lesser model, and will work out about the same price?

OK thats a very long post, sorry about that, but my head is really hurting after 4 days of internet research, and really need some advice from people who know what they are on about.

Many thanks in advance for any help, much appreciated.

[RCAshers]

Hi and welcome to the forum I am afraid there is know easy answer to your problem. I would suggest a great 2WD buggy to get you going is a Annsman Madrat it comes as a kit for you to build for £50.00 plus radio, batteries etc. or as a RTR kit with everything bar battery for £120.00. I would go for the kit I have one and run it at the local club, its more of a race buggy rather than a toy for your 4 year old for her I would get a toy RC and see how she gets on with it. I have been in this game over 30 years and owned a rc shop for 12 years so I do have some experience. Have fun. Ashley

[Diwrnach]

Thanks alot for the reply, guess it might be better if I put a budget.

After buying daughters car (Tamiya mad bull) and everything including charger I will have maybe £250 left to spend on my car.

So would need the car, electrics, battery.

The obvious choice looking is the b4.1 for around £200 with everything, but I really want to build it with my daughter, so a rtr isnt very appealing.

Whats the differences between the rtr versions and the kit version?

Are the Tamiya df-03 and DB-01 not really up to the job?

And what are the Tamiya DT-02 cars like?

Did look at the mad rat, but seemed quite cheap, which was a little off putting, figured I could get something a bit better, though as with everything more money doesnt always mean better.

I'll take another look at the mad rat, see what I can find out.

[Stu]

I would strongly advise going along to your local club and talking to some of the racers.

Threads like this normaly follow with lots of confusing and probably conflicting advice - you should go to your local club and talk to the guys there, if you are going to race you would be best trying to get some kit like they have.

[Si Coe]

Rather than the Madrat, how about an X-Pro (http://www.jespares.com/electric-models?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=7371&category_id=1150). Its the same car, but with the higher end bits and JE Spares are virtually giving them away at just £80.

The B4.1 RTR isn't really 'better' than the kit B4, since there are a few cost cuts.

[blue_pinky]

Take a look into the Annsman and Associated section on here...that will give you loads of info about the Madrat / Xpro and B4.

Both are solid enough...the Madrat has been around for a year or so and has a racing version (Xpro)...which has a few upgraded parts on I think and JE Spares are selling them cheap at £80 right now...only a couple left at that price.

The B4 has a much longer history, better parts availability and much more support as most people seem to have run one at one time or another, and every club has them running round! Might stretch your budget slightly, but is a race winning car that will scale with your ability and practice!

Maybe start out with a cheap sensorless brushless system to begin with...the EZrun systems for example are amazing value, and would be fine to begin with.

Lipo batteries are a must...1 pack will do you for club racing, and they last loads better than NiMH's both in terms of run time and overall cycles.

You'll soon remember what this game is like...once the bug bites you'll be able to keep spending...funds allowing...but you can start simple!

Enjoy!

[blue_pinky]

I would strongly advise going along to your local club and talking to some of the racers.

Threads like this normaly follow with lots of confusing and probably conflicting advice - you should go to your local club and talk to the guys there, if you are going to race you would be best trying to get some kit like they have.

And what Stu said!!! Best advise so far!!! And do it BEFORE you spend your money! :D

[JCJC]

I would strongly advise going along to your local club and talking to some of the racers.

Stu's giving the right advice, get along to a club - not to sure that 'longmarston' race as we know it, I could be wrong. http://www.longmarstonairfield.com/Services/RadioCars.aspx

Buggys are raced at Coventry (regular/popular club), the Moto-Arena at Silverstone may be worth your while checking, new venue, still getting act together. Also the Silverstone Buggy Club (don't confuse the two),
otherwise you may have to travel west.

http://cmcc.sports.officelive.com/default.aspx


http://www.moto-arena.co.uk/


http://www.silverstonercmcc.co.uk/



Any other tracks near Stratford upon Avon ?

[Diwrnach]

Thanks alot for the info guys, just what I was looking for.

Fully aim to pop to the local club this Sunday when they race and see whats going on.

Shame the Tamiyas dont seem to get much of a look in from my research, would like to go Tamiya route if possible, but not looking likely.

Thats really interesting about the B4.1, I assumed it was an upgraded B4, not a lower end B4?

Thanks alot for the advice thus far :)

[Diwrnach]

Stu's giving the right advice, get along to a club - not to sure that 'longmarston' race as we know it, I could be wrong. http://www.longmarstonairfield.com/Services/RadioCars.aspx

Buggys are raced at Coventry (regular/popular club), the Moto-Arena at Silverstone may be worth your while checking, new venue, still getting act together. Also the Silverstone Buggy Club (don't confuse the two),
otherwise you may have to travel west.

http://cmcc.sports.officelive.com/default.aspx

http://www.moto-arena.co.uk/

http://www.silverstonercmcc.co.uk/

Ah no, Long marston airfield has ALOT of stuff going on, big old place, the club I was refering to is this one http://www.stratfordrcmotorsport.co.uk/

[JCJC]

http://www.stratfordrcmotorsport.co.uk/

http://www.longmarstonairfield.com/Event.aspx?id=6c192a01-a9f7-4935-b08d-22ebc6f65f8e



not seen that one before, worth a visit first tho, see they run nitro, may be hard work for 10th electric. Just noticed the Stadium Truck picture, may be a good replacement for the madbull, seen these bounce around and look strong.

[Diwrnach]

Must say that X Pro that JE Spares have on offer seems a really good deal.

Mighty tempted to grab that.

[captainlip]

do it! :lol:

but id spend my money on the b4 kit

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=14046

with £35 off!!!

and if your feeling giddy with the plastic get this ....

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=37030

i looooove my b4!

[Diwrnach]

The more expensive kit is way out of my budget after buying all the associated bits, but the first one is spot on.

Would there combo deal be worth buying? as thats pretty much exactly my budget, or would a different motor/battery etc be better?

Would this be a better buy than the X pro?

[Diwrnach]

Just wanted to add that everyone is incredibly friendly and helpfull on this forum having been browsing for a few hours.

Is this the same in the spot in general? or just this community? as I am also a kean fisherman, and that community can be a little secret squirel with information :P

[4ndyB4te]

May I throw a different perspective on this for you!

Wanting to get back into racing and have something to do with your daughter. You need to get down to the clubs where you intend to race and see what they use.
As you are on a budget, why not ask around those clubs and on oople for preowned equipment. You can then see roughly what it should look like, take it to bits, then rebuild as per manual. That way you may get a far better standard of car for your money, buy new shells, your daughter will love her own design and if she loses interest you will not lose too much on resale.
Also if you both get addicted, like the rest of us you can then consider what is new on the scene at that time.
Maybe buy the same type of car to reduce the amount and cost of spares.
The 4wd Durgas seem a good fairly competitive starter. Many owners look to upgrade to the TRF501 or 511, once hooked and saved up!

4ndy

[captainlip]

I agree, I origionally started out thinking of getting a nitro car for bashing, but was shown the light from a helpful fella on here called SI, i now have a b4.1 to start out on a budget to race at local clubs, i enjoyed it so much ive spent almost £500 upgrading every single part on it :lol: but its paying off as im getting better and better and coming 2nd in most of my rounds on wednesday and 2nd in the final!

its to addictive.

get the b4 buddy, its a brilliant buggy to start with, but I also agree with a 2nd hand system, get the manual, strip it down and rebuild it! its a great learing experianc. b4 take a while to get dialed in but after last night i think im almost there. its a very competative buggy.

i was in the same boat as you almost 8 months ago, but after some great help and visiting the local club its only fair I pass on what i have learnt.

[Diwrnach]

Great advice, and it is something I had considered, but I think I will possibly buy a really hot racer already built second hand.

Also we will be purchasing two cars, for my daughter I was pretty much dead set on getting her a Tamiya Mad Bull, but thinking about it now thinking of getting her a Mad Rat seeing as they seem such a good car for the money from research and advice here.

Shame though because I really have a love for Tamiya from when I was a kid.

[captainlip]

i would get yuorself the b4, or b4.1 ready to run to keep costs down....until you get addicted and start upgrading!

then i would get your daughter a mad rat kit thats only £45 on model sport.

that way you both running 2wd buggys and she will think that its as expenive as yours!

now about this, buy a b4.1 or mad rat brushless or both, and totally strip them apart, that way you have the challenge of rebuilding them, and they will include the building manuals. that way you will only need a set of lipos and charger. simples!

[Diwrnach]

Thats not a bad idea, I need to look into these lipos etc, one of the benefits of buying some kits they come with ESC, motor etc, just add servo and batterys, need to do some research on all this stuff next.

First stop I guess is the club and make sure they run 2wd off road, but I'm pretty sure they will :)

[JCJC]

Why not an Ansmann Macnum 2WD 1/10 RTR Electric Truck and a Madrat, both on lipo's & Brushless. Look for 2.4 transmitters, sticks or wheel, how's the learning curve going, not secret squirrel, too much information !! :lol::lol::lol:

I think the top guys have secret squirrel thumbs :woot: madrats & secret squirrels :wub:wub

[Diwrnach]

Well I'm thinking brushless might be a tad fast for the little one, would the 540 type 23T motor that the mad rat comes with be OK with a lipo running it?

Then I'll have to research a battery/motor combo for mine.

Basicaly looking at running both cars with the same charger at least to start with, keep the little ones car a touch slow and mine a bit faster :)

By the looks of it though going to go with the mad rat and B4 stealth buggy.

Seems a good compromise between cost and performance, plus the little ones been watching videos of the mad rat and really likes the green one :D

[Diwrnach]

Ah seems you need an expensive ESC for lipo batterys? or is it just the brushless needs expensive ESC?

And no, no secret squirel here :D

[JCJC]

Lipo's just a battery, there is a BRCA approved list, need to obey a few lipo rules and you will have no problems, and you can manage on one battery each & the same charger, so Lipo with any motor/esc. (if the lipo's drop below approx 6.3volts or something its not good for them & may not recharge, most modern esc's have a cut off to stop this)

Brushless motor must have a brushless esc, can come as a combo and is almost fit & forget (and no more expensive than brushed combo, cheaper in the long run). I don't know what the slowest brushless is, with a half good transmitter you should be able to turn down the end point to limit speed.

[Diwrnach]

Lipo's just a battery, there is a BRCA approved list, need to obey a few lipo rules and you will have no problems, and you can manage on one battery each & the same charger, so Lipo with any motor/esc. (if the lipo's drop below approx 6.3volts or something its not good for them & may not recharge, most modern esc's have a cut off to stop this)

Brushless motor must have a brushless esc, can come as a combo and is almost fit & forget (and no more expensive than brushed combo, cheaper in the long run). I don't know what the slowest brushless is, with a half good transmitter you should be able to turn down the end point to limit speed.

Ah brilliant, think I'll look into lipo/brushless for mine then, and normal brushed motor the other comes with and lipo.

This forum is awesome, learnt more in the last few hours than I have in the last 4 evenings surfing (in fact ended up more confused than when I started).

Thanks alot for the help everyone, and sorry for what are likely to be pretty silly questions :)

[Tempest501]

Hey, if it help i bought a b4.1 rtr and i am really pleased with it, its super value for money and its really competitive right out of the box.

So much fun.

[Diwrnach]

Hey, if it help i bought a b4.1 rtr and i am really pleased with it, its super value for money and its really competitive right out of the box.

So much fun.

Yeah, if only they did it fully kit I would be all over it :(

Just looking for a motor/ecm combo, and ezrun got mentioned earlier, and elsewhere in my rsearch but only seem to be able to find them on ebay, with 4 weeks delivery from Hong Kong.

Is this right? or is there a better alternative? as they are much cheaper than the on es I can find in the UK.

[Diwrnach]

OK looking like I may have to go NiMh/brushed set up, I will put out what I have so far with prices, if anyone can advise me from here, no worrys if not, you have all been more than helpfull already :)

Core RC VDC-30 charger £49.99

Associated RC10 B4 Stealth Buggy £139.99 (alternative Ansmann X Pro £79.99)

Ansmann Mad Rat Racing Kit £45

Acoms Techniplus with reciever and 1 servo x 2 £75

This would leave me with about £50 give or take to try and get two lipo batterys and a brushless motor/ecm combo.... not going to happen :)

Though I would have £110 if I went with the Ansmann X Pro, which really still isnt going to happen.

So guess its looking like NiMh and brush motors.

Basicaly my budget is £350 for two cars, one I would like to race with, both need to be kits, I could push to maybe £400 but I would rather stick to my original budget if at all possible.

Think I'm asking to much here :P

[stox217]

May i say something.

Try finding your local indoors venue and have a dab in mardave racing?
Its cheep fun and easy to build cars :)

[captainlip]

not at all.....

ansmann mad rat brushed rtr for the young girl.

£90 RTR

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=33535


b4.1 brushless rtr for yourself

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=35112

£200 RTR

and if you call dave at roundabout and mention myself a regular customer I know he will give you a better price :p

even at full price that still leaves you £60 for lipos and charger.

do what I did get two turnigy lipos from hobbyking and an imax b6 charger....

and to solve the building it part, pull them apart and try and rebuild them and setting them up.....

cant say any better than this :D

[Si Coe]

The B4 is a better car than the X-Pro, but if you get your daughter the Madrat, there is a good case for the X-Pro in that they are basically the same car, so you can share spares etc. Got to make life easier doing that.
Ezruns are mainly from Hong Kong. You can get them here, but expect to pay a lot extra for doing so as you are just paying for someone else to import them. Giant Cod (http://www.giantcod.co.uk/ezrun-reverse-program-brushless-p-403362.html) sell the speed controller but not the motors, though you can use other motors. Nothing more than a 7.5t though.

You can get cheaper chargers than the Core, though I'd avoid anything that charges at less than 5A.
You can go brushed for now, since a brushed esc (http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=31291)costs as little as £24. Please note you'll need two as the Madrat comes with a motor, but no esc. Brushed motors (http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=37681)with decent performance can be had for £24 too - the B4/X-pro will need one but your daughter will be fine with the Madrats stock one.


Edit - Actually I'd get the following:
Madrat brushed RTR for daughter.
X-Pro for yourself - build with her. Its virtually identical to her car so the experience is the same.
Radio for the X-Pro
Ezrun .8.5t system for X-Pro
Lipos off hobbyking
Imax charger from the same place

Should be doable inside the budget.

[Dave Treacy]

I'm not a buggy racer but I've been racing for about 30 years and am Chairman of the Milton Keynes Club. I can't offer advice on type of buggy but...

My view on this is the idea of 8.5 / 7.5 brushless motors is crazy - far too fast for a beginner. I'd suggest you consider a cheap Ansmann brushed motor, something like a Clash 23 turn brushed motor (RRP £7.95) with a cheap / 2nd hand brushed ESC (you can get a LRP Quantum Pro Sport ESC for about £10 off fleabay). With motors, the lower the number, the faster the impact speed when you crash (and you will) :p

Regarding your affinity for Tamiya, if you have a local indoor club (and seeing as winter's approaching fast) it may be worth finding out if they run a Tamiya Mini class. The Tamiya M03/M05 is durable and cheap to run but provides great fun for all. At the moment our club gets about as many mini racers as it does touring cars. The kits cost around £90 (shop around for bargains), use cheap Ni-MH cells (about £18 each) and as easy to build, drive and cheap to maintain.

HTH
Dave

[Diwrnach]

More good info, thanks alot, could you tell me if the turnigy lipos are BRCA approved? cant see them on the list?

[captainlip]

doesnt really matter unless you are raicing in regionals or nationals, which i wont get round to for a long time :p

if your interested im considering some new lipos, and have 2 turnigy lipos 5200mah 30-40c burst that i could sell you for the right price, with deans connectors. all you need then is the imax/tunigy charger. :thumbsup:

[Diwrnach]

doesnt really matter unless you are raicing in regionals or nationals, which i wont get round to for a long time :p

if your interested im considering some new lipos, and have 2 turnigy lipos 5200mah 30-40c burst that i could sell you for the right price, with deans connectors. all you need then is the imax/tunigy charger. :thumbsup:

Might be interested, what sort of money we talking?

[JCJC]

doesnt really matter unless you are raicing in regionals or nationals, which i wont get round to for a long time :p

I would like to think some clubs may be a bit more fussy.......

Also note - its that time of year, expect a new list for 2011, don't ask when

[Diwrnach]

Bit of an update, had a chat with the bank manager (the wife) and have a bit better budget, should be able to spend £550 now instead of £350.

So this throws a bit of a spanner in the works, need to start research over a bit lol.

Any recommendations now?

Probably stick to mad rat for the little one, with the motor it comes with, lipo battery of sme sort.

Then whats rest on mine :)

[Diwrnach]

I'm not a buggy racer but I've been racing for about 30 years and am Chairman of the Milton Keynes Club. I can't offer advice on type of buggy but...

My view on this is the idea of 8.5 / 7.5 brushless motors is crazy - far too fast for a beginner. I'd suggest you consider a cheap Ansmann brushed motor, something like a Clash 23 turn brushed motor (RRP £7.95) with a cheap / 2nd hand brushed ESC (you can get a LRP Quantum Pro Sport ESC for about £10 off fleabay). With motors, the lower the number, the faster the impact speed when you crash (and you will) :p

Regarding your affinity for Tamiya, if you have a local indoor club (and seeing as winter's approaching fast) it may be worth finding out if they run a Tamiya Mini class. The Tamiya M03/M05 is durable and cheap to run but provides great fun for all. At the moment our club gets about as many mini racers as it does touring cars. The kits cost around £90 (shop around for bargains), use cheap Ni-MH cells (about £18 each) and as easy to build, drive and cheap to maintain.

HTH
Dave

Thanks alot for this, thinking you may be right, sorry I didnt acknowlege this earlier as somehow I missed this reply, not sure how, but when I read the thread back spotted it.

Good advice I think :)

Might buy the brushless/ecm combo and put it in a draw untill I'm more experianced.

[Diwrnach]

This looks nice, think it was posted earlier as well http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=28600

Though a Tamiya Durga sounds interesting as well now with more cash.

Are these a decent car?

[Diwrnach]

Oooooh how about this? http://www.fusionhobbies.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TA84100

[Si Coe]

In the DB01R guise its a good car, as a Durga it needs a lot spending on it to be decent. The end result is an extremely tough, very capable car. Not the cheapest option (that B44 is less and just as good if not better) but ideal if you want a Tamiya.

[Diwrnach]

So complicated, so many options, had nearly decided what to get untill my budget was expansded, now back to square one almost.

Thinking either the Tamiya DB01R, Team Associated B44, Team Associated RC10B4.1 Factory Team Kit, or maybe the Tamiya 2wd Racing buggy, forget the name.

The Team Associated does seem to come higher rated, and also works out a bit cheaper on the kits, also seems to come with a bit more, wheels and things.

Or just go with what I was before and buy more batterys/spares and stuff.

Mind boggles.

[captainlip]

If your interested id be willing to sell you my b4.1 reedy brushless system and turnigy lipos meaning youd only need a charger and radio system for your kit, pm me if your interested mate, need to know asap will be able to do youa decent price

[Diwrnach]

I am definately interested, though I dont want to commit to anything just yet, I will pop to the club near me tomorrow hopefully and see what they do for sure, then go from there.

Out of interest, as someone new to racing do you think a 2wd or 4wd car is a better option?

[jamiekerr14]

4WD... 2WD requires a lot smoother throttle finger and controls generally. Once you master 2WD 4WD... is a lot easier.. but yeah 4WD I would say

2WD is cheaper, and in some way requires less maintenance.. but trickier to drive.

[Diwrnach]

Guessed that may be the case, but wasnt sure if mastering 2wd might be a better coarse for someone knew, figured you might learn more from 2wd that you may not from 4wd?

Only guessing though, I will go with what is suggested to me on here, and of coarse what the track races.

[jamiekerr14]

Yeah, I have run 2WD and 4WD I personally prefer 4wd-as its a 2nd class for me as I race 1/8th nitro....4wd generally can handle variety of tracks better. Specially damp/wet astro.. its personal preference.. if you want something to stick down and go 4wd is the better route in my view..

[Diwrnach]

Thinking I might go the Tamiya route, around the £200-£250 mark is this a good option? or is the B44 going to work out better?

Nearly pinned a car down :)

[jamiekerr14]

The B4.1 AND B44/.1 Are all greats cars, I have had both B4 and B44. And liked them both. It depends, IF you went the B44-Remember it only takes saddle packs-Not stick packs like your little one's mad cat. Something else to bear in mind..

It's personal choice tbh, for me the 4wd is easier, as I can chuck it down and race it. And its a tiny bit like my 1/8th-with them both being 4wd. I do like 2wd, but they take a lot of practice to get fast with them.. which some people like.. too..
The 4wd's generally require a tad more mech-with another 2 driveshaft ect..

If your, wanting something on the lower budget.. for some fun at the track and with your little one. I would get the B4.1 RTR.. and as stated before.. rebuild it ect.. Then if you really love it, can then think about spending more £ on it-maybe better esc motor lip ect.. then think about another 2wd or 4wd... It seems the most sensible route.. but at the end of the day its your call..

[JCJC]

[QUOTE=jamiekerr14;it only takes saddle packs-Not stick packs like your little one's mad cat. Something else to bear in mind.. [/QUOTE]

have run saddles 4WD then put them end to end in 2WD, not managed to run both cars at once tho ;)

[Col]

Out of interest, as someone new to racing do you think a 2wd or 4wd car is a better option?

I'd disagree with the previous answer.
4WD is easier to drive on any given surface, but driving is not racing.
2WD is generally considered the starter class and as such has more new racers (and more forgiving heats)
If you (or anybody else) jump straight in with 4WD you'll get murdered...

[jamiekerr14]

I agree, but if he wants to just turn up and do some light harted racing and be able to take it with his your un to a bash spot and play about. I think the 4wd is better option. Quote-(I would like something I can also mess about with her with, but also have a go at racing)

If he thinks, he will be doing a lot of racing.. and wanting to spend £ and time then yes 2WD-Will teach you far more control than 4wd will.
But as I stated before-each to there own.. and he's the one that needs to decide.. for himself not other's...

[captainlip]

dont go down the tamiya route, get a B4! i wanted a B44 so much but now im so chuffed with the b4 that im glad i did get a b4! makes you a better driver!

[blue_pinky]

I'd suggest sticking to 2wd if your club racing, as Col said, it'll have slower heats to race in...as most newbies start there (certainly at our club anyway!), but it's the best place to learn how to drive a car! Teaches you loads about car control, and the maintenance/cost of running side is easier/cheaper.

The 4wd's, although maybe easier to drive in one sense, are also a bit of handful to race as they are quicker! Once you've mastered the 2wd, 4wd will be much easier to cope with.

Another thought, ask at the club your planning to use which class has the most newbies in it, and maybe use that help you choose?

Trouble you'll be having now is the amount of options for everything! To be honest, as long as you stick to some of the main brands, it's all decent enough stuff. Once your in and racing you'll get a better feel for what's what and can start to make some more informed choices from your own experience.

Lipo's, someone has mentioned it, but I thought I'd just remind you...don't worry about the BRCA list too much, that is just for the big national/regional events. Most (if not all) clubs don't run to that rule, so any reasonable lipo will do.

:thumbsup:

[Diwrnach]

Thanks alot for the help everyone, thinking of going with a B4 as suggested, and maybe the cheap one and get a decent set of radio gear/ecm/batterys etc that will be good enough to transfer to future cars.

Though the factory kit looks very appealing for an extra £70.

So guess its between the Stealth and Factory kit B4.

Just got back from the local track, which I was very impressed with, the track is really nice, but unfortunately not a soul was there, I know its a very new track, only a couple of months old, and when I emailed for information they said membership runs from Jan-Dec, but to come down and meet everyone Sunday, but guessing its really going to start in January.

Also being an outdoor track, it was raining today, so maybe called off due to the weather.

Still not 100% on what cars they run, I did ask in the email but didnt get an answer, mailed again just now and see if I get an answer this time, if not I may look at another track.

So Stealth or Factory kit B4 hmmm.

Stealth - http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=14046

Factory - http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=37030

[captainlip]

ive upgraded to all the factory parts now :thumbsup: but obviously has cost me more to do.

stick with the stealth and upgrade as you go along, its great fun waiting for an upgrade then fitting it to the car :thumbsup:

you wont go wrong with the b4. even though there are twice as many 4wd racers in our club ill be sticking to 2wd for at least another season.

[Diwrnach]

ive upgraded to all the factory parts now :thumbsup: but obviously has cost me more to do.

stick with the stealth and upgrade as you go along, its great fun waiting for an upgrade then fitting it to the car :thumbsup:

you wont go wrong with the b4. even though there are twice as many 4wd racers in our club ill be sticking to 2wd for at least another season.

Yeah I know what youre saying, but I am really torn, if I get the stealth kit, as you say I can upgrade as I go, and would enjoy that as well, but then I would sit and work out how much it had cost me to make it into a kit thats only £70 more to start with, and possibly cry :P

Too many options in this sport :P

[captainlip]

either buy the stealth and upgrade and you will have it out every weekend and fiddle with it.

or get the factory team you will only pull it out to race with as its all the parts on it as standard

if i was you i would snap this guys hand off for this

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56462

its a b4 from my local club ive been trying to convince him to sell me his shell. its got the correct springs on for racing so no need to spend £20 on spring kits.

[Diwrnach]

To be honest I would rather buy new, if I was going for a really expensive car I may opt to go second hand, but at this level I think I will go new.

Quick question though as I was thinking of going with a basic brushed motor with lipo to start with, then go brushless as I progress, do you need different ESC for both types of motor, or can you get one that will do either?

[captainlip]

just go brushless

[Diwrnach]

Something like this?

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=35886

[Chris56]

just go brushless

There's quite a few used combos on the trade forum. Personally I would choose an esc that has a low turn limit (4.5/5.5T), that way you will only need to buy a new motor as your skill improves, without the need to upgrade the esc. Should be able to pick up a decent brushless combo for £70-£90 or a good esc (such as a Speed Passion GT2) for about £65

[David Church]

Brushless is a must, don't mess around with a brushed motor, it's not worth it.

[Diwrnach]

Think someone needs to right a guide on what to buy thats cheapish but decent to get you racing for a newcomer :)

I'm pretty sure I will go for the cheaper option B4 now, and get all the lipo/brushless etc set up with a decent set of radio gear.

Just out of interest which is the better buy would you all say http://www.jespares.com/electric-models?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=7371&category_id=1150

or http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=14046

Alot of places seem to have nothing but good for the mad rat, and thinking I will likely get my daughter one of the basic ones.

[JCJC]

A lot to be said for running the same car, one box of spares, you break a wishbone on the B4 you aint gonna fit a rat one,
you will break wishbones, towers etc, why not have one pool of wheels/tires/shock springs/bearings/screws/nuts.

I know the B4 is imperial, is the rat metric? = 2 sets of hex tools/spanners


(no prize for the first to tell me a rat wishbone goes straight onto a B4 :woot:)

[Diwrnach]

From what I can gather yes the B4 is Imperial and the Rat metric.

[Chris56]

Thats correct.

With regards which one to go for, you'll find that drivers of either car will not have a bad word to say about them so you wouldn't be disappointed. Obviously a £60 price difference may play a part!

[JCJC]

That was my guess, we run (sometimes) a D4 metric (a metric B44 if you like that has spare parts kept with the rocking horse poo and hens teeth) and an imperial X6 (a conversion from our old B4) spares easy peesey.

I have to keep the hex drivers in different box's, expect if you stick with the hobby you will end up with all the tools, but to start I would keep it simple.

[Diwrnach]

OK 99% sure I'm going to go with a Mad Rat and X Pro.

Standard motor in Mad Rat, basic Acoms 27am Techniplus radio gear with the modelsport ESC for the daughter.

For me probably the acoms 2.4ghz set, but when it comes to comes to lipos, esc and motor I get a bit confused, thinking of getting this http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=35886 .

Then its lipo choice, so many different sizes and types.

This sound good?

[Chris56]

thinking of getting this http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=35886 .



Its certainly good value and will get you started, however when it comes to getting a faster motor you will probably need to upgrade the ESC too to deal with the higher currents.You'll probably be better off getting a higher spec combo 2nd hand. Even if you get a fast motor from the outset (say a 7.5T) you can always turn down the throttle limit (either on the radio by reducing the "end point", or on the speedo if that function is that available)

A 2.4 GHZ radio and Lipos is definately the way forward:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Diwrnach]

Its certainly good value and will get you started, however when it comes to getting a faster motor you will probably need to upgrade the ESC too to deal with the higher currents.You'll probably be better off getting a higher spec combo 2nd hand. Even if you get a fast motor from the outset (say a 7.5T) you can always turn down the throttle limit (either on the radio by reducing the "end point", or on the speedo if that function is that available)

A 2.4 GHZ radio and Lipos is definately the way forward:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thats cool, could you tell me what kind of numbers im looking for on an ESC please?

I'd rather get one that will last than having to replace it later.

[Diwrnach]

Maybe like this? http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=34311 but wont 6.5t be way too much?

[Chris56]

Thats cool, could you tell me what kind of numbers im looking for on an ESC please?

I'd rather get one that will last than having to replace it later.

Depending on the track you could be using something as fast as a 6.5T so an esc that will take it is needed. The 2 i've used are the Losi Xcelorin and the Speed Passion GT2 pro. Since going brushless I've only tried the Losi Xcelorin motors (6.5T and 7.5T) but neither of my motors/escs have let me down.

I know quite a few people who are running LRP SXX and Nosram Pearl Evolution ESCs, which you can pick up quite cheap and are mean't to be reliable.

It might be worth looking under the "electrics" forum as there are quite a few threads for good cheap escs

Im not quite sure how much current a 6.5T motor will draw but im pretty sure the Ansmann system will cut out.

[Chris56]

Maybe like this? http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=34311 but wont 6.5t be way too much?

That could work - a 6.5T will be too fast to start with, however if you had a radio with "end point adjustment" then you can simply reduce the throttle limit to whatever level you can handle.

Here is a good radio with that function:

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=36842

With this system you can reduce the throttle limit on the esc

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=30214

(i've actually got a 7.5T combo for sale;))

[Diwrnach]

Think I would rather go with the ESC/motor option, in my mind I can picture using a wheel controller the other way round with right index finger on the trigger, but the other way round as they all are in my mind seems totaly alien, dont know why :P

Thanks for the offer on the 7.5t combo, but I always tend to buy new where possible, not saying anything is wrong with the one you have but been burnt a couple of time with second hand things off the net over the years and prefer new when I can.

[tsan]

Think someone needs to right a guide on what to buy thats cheapish but decent to get you racing for a newcomer :)
I think you guys pretty much have with this thread. :P

[captainlip]

Last chance if you want a reedy system esc and motor!

[Diwrnach]

I think you guys pretty much have with this thread. :P

Very true, alot of very helpfull and knowlegable people on this forum, hopefully this may come in usefull for other people in my situation, as I am sure there must be a few :)

[Diwrnach]

How does this look btw? http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=34160

[Chris56]

Very true, alot of very helpfull and knowlegable people on this forum, hopefully this may come in usefull for other people in my situation, as I am sure there must be a few :)

I got back into racing last xmas after a 15 year time off and wish I had known of this forum beforehand. I went into my local highstreet modelshop (effectiviely Tamiyas r us) and the guy convinced me that the best car for a beginer was a Tamiya TT01 as they are cheap, easy to drive and competetive. They didn't sell 2.4GHz radios so I spent £40 on a hitec 40MHz sytem. Needless to say that lot went on ebay some time later!

If I had done my homework properly I wouldn't have wasted so much money and would had a better setup from the outset for the same £££

[Chris56]

How does this look btw? http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=34160

They're fine for 2wd buggy, but hese are better:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Intellect-7-4v-3800mah-35C-Li-Po-Race-Pack-Battery-/200533983571?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item2eb0c1c153

You wil easily get 2 races from a battery and they will handle a current of 133A, as opposed to 60A in the HPI

[Diwrnach]

Well pretty much all sorted I think, have £130 left of my budget, still need to sort a charger out from that, and some tools and paint, and any unforseen expenses.

Awesome stuff, I will list everything with links when I have charger sorted, all with prices etc so its all in one place and hopefully may come in handy for others.

[Col]

They're fine for 2wd buggy, but hese are better:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Intellect-7-4v-3800mah-35C-Li-Po-Race-Pack-Battery-/200533983571?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item2eb0c1c153

You wil easily get 2 races from a battery and they will handle a current of 133A, as opposed to 60A in the HPI

+1.

Great cells at a good price.

[Diwrnach]

Hmmm after taking another look the X Pro doesnt come with tyres, which is an extra £20 give or take a few £ so it only works out £40 cheaper than the B4 Stealth kit.

Is the kit worth the extra £40?

[Si Coe]

The kit tyres with the RC10 are next to useless here in the UK though. They are really only effective on hard clay tracks that we just don't have here. The result is that you'll need different tyres to run it here - racing or bashing you are going to be on grass or astroturf and need tyres with more spike.
Thats why the X-Pro doesn't come with tyres - when much of the time they get thrown away anyway why bother?

[Diwrnach]

Ah OK I'm with you, anyways I took the plunge and ordered the Mad Rat and the X pro, will order the other bits from Modelsport once I have chosen a charger, still looking into those, want something I can use at home on 240v and also in the car 12v, I assume you can get ciggarette adapter?

Was looking at this one http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=36011 seems to be decent.

Did look into the ones on ebay that were wntioned earlier in the thread, but when I looked at reviews found one on a RC plane forum saying the digital readout was very inacurate or something which kind of put me off, are they right?

[Diwrnach]

This is the one I have been told is decent and a good price http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IMAX-B6-Lipo-NiMH-Battery-Balance-Charger-/160497681634?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item255e6844e2 .

Seeing as its got croc clips how do people go about using these? cig adapter with bare wires with croc clips on? or open the bonnet and direct to the battery?

Have a few 12v adapters at home from various game consoles and different things, can you do the same with that? bare wires to the croc clips?

[mattybucks]

This is the one I have been told is decent and a good price http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IMAX-B6-Lipo-NiMH-Battery-Balance-Charger-/160497681634?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item255e6844e2 .

Seeing as its got croc clips how do people go about using these? cig adapter with bare wires with croc clips on? or open the bonnet and direct to the battery?

Have a few 12v adapters at home from various game consoles and different things, can you do the same with that? bare wires to the croc clips?

I use one of the B6 chargers there great for £20.

You need a 12v Leisure battery, or a power supply and a generator. I would go with the Leisure battery to start with.

[JCJC]

We carry something like this charger as backup to our mains/12v B6, also have an adapter that provides 5A @ 12V that it runs off. belt & braces eh.

Most racers would use a leisure type battery, something from a caravan/camping store, also outside see more & more generators. Pucker days racing may see at lipo pack charged - what, some practice, 4 heats, some odd testing, finals - 3 if you are lucky, 6 charges and you may be running 2 cars & doing it twice.

Do you know what they run at longmarston yet ?

[Diwrnach]

Have absolutely no idea what they do as when I went down on Sunday (there meet day) and no one was there, can only assume it was due to the weather, and also it being a new club I get the impression it doesnt really kick off untill January in earnest, but may be wrong.

Out of interest why not use your cars battery? and mains at home?

[JCJC]

We did a junior weekend a few years ago, Saturday saw a flat 85Amp/hr leisure battery, Sunday saw a flat car battery ! and we were being careful, I dont think either batteries were much cop & old cells being discharged, balanced & charged took much more out than todays lipo's will (just top up what you use really).

We have been lucky enough to see some inside winter racing the last couple of years, having 240volts to plug into is great, charger, lamp, kettle, computer. I have seen TV's

But car batteries are thought to be not suited to the all day slow discharge they get, leisure batteries are. Generator is wonderful - all day 240v or 12v.

We also have an old PC psu which gives 12v from the mains and cost pennies.

[Diwrnach]

OK cool, just looking now, do have a battery charger for a car/laisure battery in he shed, and as I say before plenty of 12v transformers about the place.

How long would a fully charged leisure battery last? I ask because they have solar panel chargers for them at a very reasonable prive.

[AlisdairO]

I've found a cheap car battery will do fine *as long as you don't run it down too far*. Car batteries are designed for rapid discharge, but being kept well topped up, while leisure batteries are designed for slow discharge but being fully drained. In practice, that means a car battery is fine for one racer, but you're probably pushing it for two. Still, if you're short on cash you an always get a car battery, run it until it's busted, and get a leisure battery later.

[Diwrnach]

Found this which is well priced and includes delivery, car battery wouldnt be much cheaper, unless I grab one from a breakers of coarse :) http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/buy-online/caravan-batteries-boat-batteries-leisure-batteries/12v-ultra-plus-50amp-cheap-leisure-battery/prod_103.html

[captainlip]

I thought you were going to order a b4 :-s ???

[Chris56]

Was looking at this one http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=36011 seems to be decent.



I use one of these now following recommendation from other members on the forum. Can't fault it and saves buying a leisure battery or 12v psu. At £55 it is excellent value.

[RogerM]

Diwranch ... may I suggest that you order everything from one place as you 'might' be able to get them to put a deal together for you.

I'd bet that you couldn't beat the prices JE Spares would get you going for with the X Pro etc. plus they have the advantage of one of them being Ansmann's #1 UK driver so you'd get loads of help and info too free of charge!!

[Diwrnach]

Went with the X pro in the end purely to make things easier with the daughter having the Mad Rat, and also the deal JE Spares have is really good.

Think I will go with that battery then, thanks for the information on it, just found it via google and seemed a decent battery for the money.

Yeah I am trying to order as much as I can from one place, but at the same time trying to balance out cost.

Once again though thanks everyone for all the help, its been invaluable, and most definately the most helpfull bunch of people I have met on a forum.

Last thing I need to work out is what tyres to get for the X Pro, will be using it on tarmac/grass with my daughter, for racing its on fairly hard packed mud/dirt, and also what if any oils/glues/greese etc I will need and tools.

Once allis sorted I will compile it all in one list and likely add it to first post to help others in a similar situation.

[Diwrnach]

Looks like to race you also need a Harry transponder, thats another £70!

Blimey...:o

[jamiekerr14]

My advice is pick up a used older AMB one.. from on here or Flebay..

but yeah-no one said this hobby was cheap!...

[RogerM]

I'd not worry about personal transponders just yet, most clubs have handouts. To put it in perspective I have had a PT in my rallycross car since about 2003 ... it made it into my 1/10th 2WD buggy (my main class) for the first time ever on Sunday!

If I were you I'd get the car, the basic electronics (look at the Ansmann ESC, almost exactly a Speed Passion unit .. can even use the same programing box!) and get out and have fun.
As I said before this is where a good shop who understands the difference between a newbie and a national level driver is worth their weight in gold. They will advise what you NEED, and what is a "nice to have". They will treat you right as they want your repeat business.

As I have said give JE Spares (Ryan / Stu) a call and talk it over with them, very helpful and friendly guys. In the highly unlikely event, especially as you have chosen and Ansmann car, that JE can not help you along the right path get in touch with one of the other shops whos owners post on here. Those guys are in the know and will be only to happy help. MK Racing (Mark) and DMS (Darren) are examples.

There is absolutely no need to spend a fortune to get going at club level, 1/10th RC has never been cheaper in real terms than it is at the moment! The important thing is to get on track, find out what you like and what you don't and then work from there. For example having the right tires for £16 a set will make you much more competative than the latest greatest Lipo battery at £95.

[JCJC]

Roger's right, no need for a transponder, most of us carry a camping table & a chair tho. (and a tent/gazebo)...........

Thinking, its a bit away from you - 1 hr - but if MotoArena do get off road running inside this winter it may be good for you, mains electric, warm, couple of 'team' ansmann drivers live almost local, talk is one night a week & one day at weekend.

(shame there used to be a good shop at Evesham, would have been handy)

[Diwrnach]

Yeah seems unless this one at Long Marston doesnt work out its a long way to the next nearest.

Think this place is probably next closest, but again outside http://www.j12radioraceclub.com/index.php or after that I think its Coventry, not sure if Banbury has anything, or around there, need to do a bit more research.

But close towns for me really are, Banbury, Leamington, Warwick and closest being Stratford.

[JCJC]

Ask RogerM, he's not far away, Banbury PDA closed last year, would have been perfect. (radioraceclub looks nitro) Coventry is good, raced there, well run etc.

[Diwrnach]

Ask RogerM, he's not far away, Banbury PDA closed last year, would have been perfect.

Yeah spoke with RogerM via PM, he races at Kidderminster which is an hour or so away, not that far, but still far enough to try and find somewhere closer :)

Oh and both kits have just arrived like 10mins ago, theyre for Xmas presents, but the temptation is great to build mine now :P

[Diwrnach]

Just out of interest, and having watched lots of videos, but it seems now basicaly everyone uses the trigger/wheel type transmitters, what is the advantage with those over the two stick layout?

[jamiekerr14]

There is no + over stick or wheel-Just preference.. and what is more comfortable to You..

I use wheel, a lot of the newer generation of driver's tend to run wheel.. I just find it easier. After flying 3D planes ect-My fingers get confused as they cant move all over only up down and left right haha so I use wheel.. and they to me is my preference. But its just what you would want.. tbh

[RogerM]

Transmitter type is purely personal preference. I have used both, about 18 years with twin stick and then 7 years using a wheel somewhere in the middle of that. I've been back on sticks now for about 10 years or so.

Choose whatever is most natural for you. Some will tell you that one option is better because of this or that but just use what feels "right" for you.

Main advantage of the wheel used to be that you could get better featured sets for the same money as a basic stick set as they are more popular world over than sticks. That gap has narrowed with the likes of the Core twin stick unit.

I don't just race at Kidderminster, all over the place. Regular at Coventry and other mid west tracks and then Derby (Ardent) and Hereford over the winter.
All my racing is about an hour from me too, I live in the middle of off-road nowhere!!! :D

[Col]

Just out of interest, and having watched lots of videos, but it seems now basicaly everyone uses the trigger/wheel type transmitters, what is the advantage with those over the two stick layout?

Were the video's American?

I think out of the 30+ regulars at York club there are 3 wheel transmitters...

[Diwrnach]

Ah OK thats cool, the wheel type in my mind feels great, but only the other way round with right finger on the trigger, left finger on trigger doesnt feel natural at all, no idea why, but I figured if it was a better solution I would learn to adapt.

But if there is no real advantage to them over sticks then I will use those.

Sorry RogerM didnt mean to imply you only raced at one place, hope I didnt offend :)

[jamiekerr14]

yeah some of the better wheel tx's you can move the wheel over to the left side ect.. but if you like sticks.. then use them.. as most of the ones that can move side.. are more £ As far as I can think..