2011 calender

[jondell]

As much as i appreciate the relevant sections in getting the 2011 BRCA race dates out early, I do feel that sightly better coordination between the 2 main off road sections could have been achieved.

As this seems to be the most sensible forum to voice an opinion on this topic, I therefore suggest.... no plead, for anyone who is remotely connected to either section committee, to see sense in this situation for the good of both classes.

My suggestion is as follows:-

The 1/8th section move its round 2 date from Sunday 8th May to Sunday 1st May

The 1/10th section move its round 4 date from weekend of 18th/19th June to weekend of 25th/26th June

IF.... just IF this can be done, many more racers can attend both series (either racing, watching, supporting) and for the BRCA, they will be rewarded with the potential of having the very best racers representing them at the 2012 international everts.

IF we can not manage to do this, then one if not both classes, will be diluted. Equally this will also help the commercial industry, as our main players will be able to support both classes to their highest level.

So I ask again, if you agree with the simple suggestion and you know of any committee member, please have a chat. Lets make 2011 a year to remember :thumbsup:

PS to those who are thinking it dont matter, my section will be fully booked, just think.... economic times are not good, until the numbers are in, we don't know for sure that high entires will happen in 2011. On top of that we seem to be losing a shut per month at the moment.

Thanks for reading

Jon Dell

[ashleyb4]

Iknow it takes the BRCA alot of work to co-ordinate with the clubs to arrange the callender. I know they will have arranged as best as they can not to clash with other series but if it unavoidable its unavoidable. So leave it alone. Personally im liking the looks of that list.

Ash

[Neil Skull]

I do agree with Jon.

It should be recognised that a lot of racers including the best in the country want to race 1/10th and 1/8th.

So it makes a lot of sense to get the organisers to discuss the dates and try to avoid clashes if possible.

I know this is not always easy to manage but it is in everyones interest;)

[mark christopher]

Iknow it takes the BRCA alot of work to co-ordinate with the clubs to arrange the callender. I know they will have arranged as best as they can not to clash with other series but if it unavoidable its unavoidable. So leave it alone. Personally im liking the looks of that list.

Ash
as ususal ash....total rubbish. i doubt you have actually any experience of this so ill give you mine

i have done this years 10th ic national calander dates (8 rounds) and worked with the 8th on road section (9 rounds) in planning calanders. we do not have any clashes, and have avioded clashing with euros too, so it CAN be done if sections work together.
and ash, all done from sctatch in 2 weeks of planning to sorting dates to booking clubs.

clubs that are offered to host a national are not going to turn it down if thay have a club day planned for that day.

the other side of the coin is that i presume not all rounds count? and if drivers miss a few meets then it give reserves a chance to compete!

[RogerM]

List???? what list??? Are the dates available somewhere???

P.S. I agree with Jon to a large extent here, lots of cross overof interest. Anything has to be better than having to run on-road as theere are no off road events some weekends then a choice of 12teen the next.

On the other hand there may well be good reasons why this has happened which we don't know about, I still have total faith in the BRCA teams to give us the best racing they can!!!

[PTRU]

I am with John and Neil on this we are trying to put a programe together so these top events can be broadcast around the world live.

now some body has to deside which events this is going to happen and which ones are not, plus there is now a conflict for sponcers on this as well so it is quite a problem all round.

[DaveG28]

Where are the calendars?

[neiloliver]

the 1/10 off road nationals are in the 1/10th off road section of the brca website.

n

[russmini]

Totally agrre Jon.

I'm not doing 8th anymore, so it doesn't impact me personally. I will hopefully be some 10th Nationals this year :D

A lot of the top 10th guys now do 8th, although some are going back to 10th or trying to do both. So everything Jon has said is bang on.

We need all our top drivers to be able to attend the top events, which will in turn allow them to attend the world's top events.

:thumbsup:

[jondell]

Keep the comments coming... If you feel strong enough about it, make your voice count.

Calenders can be found here:-

1/10th http://www.brca.org/?q=content/brca-110th-road-2011-calendar/9774

1/8th http://www.brca-rallycross.co.uk/articles/calendar_2011.htm

To clarify, the movement of one date by each section would allow a racer to do either a full 1/10th season and the minimum 8th or vice versa.

To Mark C, your comments are valid and show that on road IC are pro active and understand the need to work together, all be it that their relationships are closer than the 2 off road sections.

[neiloliver]

For the record I was not making a comment in favour of this thread, just pointing to the 1/10th off road calendar.

[Reevsey]

I totally agree with you Jon, I really don't understand why there can't be an agreement where say the 1/10th section has the 2nd weekend of every month every year and that then leaves enough weekends for the 1/8th section to plan both buggies and truggies as there where similar issues last year.

In the end Shops suffer, the industry suffers, racers suffer and the BRCA suffer as they will not have the strongest teams in 2012 as racers have to choose 1 class.

I know the guys on the section commities have a tough job and do it for now salary (+ it is not a job i would want) but the end result is a real shame currently.......

[Teddy truman]

agreed! not impressed about this :thumbdown: very upsetting

[tellor]

It just amazes me that 2 sections can't organise these 2 simliar classes without clashing!
whats even worse was that last year senior people were complaining that it was a shame that the likes of Neil Cragg and Darren Bloomfield weren't doing all 10th off road nationals due to "other commitments".

Like someone said earlier hosting a national is a privelage and should be prepared to be to run on any suggested week-end...so why should they clash!

It's not like the 2 classes are 10th off road and 12th electric is it! the 2 classes are almost identical and should be organised as such to give maximum benefit to ALL

[Reevsey]

It's not like the 2 classes are 10th off road and 12th electric is it! the 2 classes are almost identical and should be organised as such to give maximum benefit to ALL

I totally agree, the on road guys manage it as they look at it as a total section, we for some reason do not treat off road as a total section

[DCM]

Like someone said earlier hosting a national is a privelage and should be prepared to be to run on any suggested week-end...so why should they clash!

This maybe under the assumption that the applications to hold a National is over subscribed, so the committee can pick and choose and dictate the dates.

I do find it odd that the two sections haven't worked closer on confirming dates though.

[RudeTony]

Totally agree with Jon and furthermore totally disagree with the BRCA not catering for my personal chosen classes paid for. In other words 'OFF ROAD'.
At this point surely the committee has a responsibility to actually cater for what we pay for - surely!!
This is obviously because these 2 sections do NOT talk or shall I be the first one to say they do not WANT to talk - it is totally clear and possible in next years calendar to achive the dates and that I am sure is the frustration shown in Jons post.
Furthermore, the classic excuse would be that clubs can't do this date and that date and all that rubbish, well I say they shouldn't have a National in that case. Set the dates then the venues should follow. If they can't do it then move on to the next one.
You would have the backing of every competive racer in the land if you did it that way.........
Chris - You are the Chairman of the BRCA and this is obviously a request of many racers for you to step in and sort this mess out.
I apologise if some of my wording is so direct but hey it's about time that someone said it so it's clear.
Jon I commend you for your post

[Gnarly Old Dog]

100% agree
Tony's right - no longer do we have individual disciplines like we perhaps had in the past - Off Road is a whole discipline and competitors, shops, distributors and manufacturers all cater for both 1/8 an 1/10.

Yes the BRCA do a commendable and unenviable job and do it in their own time but perhaps sometimes when you're wholly immersed in one section or the other, it's impossible to view the wider picture.

And as Mark commented, if the ic on-road community can cater for both scale classes with a 17+ round calendar total, the question must be why can't the off-road community accommodate a 14 round total series?

[mark christopher]

try to bear with me here

as a brca comittee member (in on road) im going to say somin that wont please some ( no change there then)

im not sure who does the calenders for the off road sections (10th and 8th) but assuming its the chairmen? then
1/ its not an easy job, it does take time, and unlike us i assume you have more tracks available than you need for a serries. ( we have 7 tracks for 8 nationals)

2/ have the racers other than here voiced thier thoughts about clashing?
its not really down to the main exec to sort out dates, this is a sectional issue. though im sure if all of those concerned emailed the chairman [email protected] im sure if he gets enough mails he will contact both sections and guide them to the light..

my sugestion would be to put in a proposal into both sections by respected drivers asking for each section to work together and look at coming up with a calander that does not clash. ( this what happened in on road ic, we as sections were just doing our own thing until it was pointed out, we have now worked together for 2 years.)
If the sections wont work with each other, then you can do a drastic aproach and vote out the chairmen and replace them with ones who will work together, both chairman in the classes are strong individuals but im sure if you all have a word with paul and kevin thay will do whats best for thier racers and the members of the brca, its certainly in the BRCA's interest, and lets face it if the respective nationals dont clash, both sections benifit from full healthy entries and the top guys comitted to both!
all sections comittees are there to do whats best for the section and its racers and "promote the sport of model car racing"

[mikeyscott]

Ok this is just my view:

1) It does seem odd to have the major off road events clashing as with the various manufacturers re-entering into the off road markets 2011 is looking like a cracking year.

2) From my perspective if it means I can gain an entry to 1/10th national(s) then that's a good thing for me. However I'd still rather see the UK's best racing against each other and not gain an entry. As I can always still have a crack at the regionals.

I've never done nationals before, so can't really have a valid view on it anyway... Plus I'm a 1/10th only man and I think the BRCA do a cracking job.

[David Church]

Ok here is my veiw on this as an ex BRCA rep, The sections could easily work together, but they don't, this is not down to the sections, but down to people!!! Come on you lot, let's work together for the better of all involved!!!

[TheReferee]

My suggestion is as follows:-

The 1/8th section move its round 2 date from Sunday 8th May to Sunday 1st May

The 1/10th section move its round 4 date from weekend of 18th/19th June to weekend of 25th/26th June




without wishing to join in the for or against debate your suggestion on the 1/8 move means it will be on the royal wedding/bank hoilday weekend which may be a factor. on the face of it moving the second date may be possible, however, 1/8 round 6 and 7 have managed to clash with the 1/10 euros and 1/10 worlds!!

[Andy Taylor]

A lot of you will not have seen me post before. (the lucky ones) many of you will have . (sorry) :) I have stopped posting (other forums) in disgust at the way I have been treated by the BRCA as an ex BRCA and club Official.
Suffice to say I was stitched up by lies from a certain person who know who they are (I have refused for nearly 18 months to use the UK forums to let people know the truth of what has gone on)


BUT whilst this still remains true I saw this thread from Jon and know it is heartfelt and in many ways I fully understand where he is coming from.

Jon like myself calls a shovel a shovel and will undoubtedly get a bashing over this so thought he needed some support in what he is trying to achieve.

However as someone like Jon who tried their hardest to get a thriving Regional calendar in 8th rallycross as they have in 10th offroad its one hell of a task to achieve the impossible. Then throw in the weather..............and boy it will be a miracle.

For sometime I was amongst those who asked for fewer, BUT two day events to be considered in 8th rallycross, BUT the AGM spoke against it. (democracy) call it luck call it experience (yes I am old) call it what you will, but I could see the growth in rallycross dragging the current best drivers from 10th to 8th and the explosion of clubs wanting slots to all impinge on one another.

Economics are going to affect things but strangely in a recession hobbies thrive. Apparently its because people have more spare time. (less money though, and many will need local racing to be affordable and accessible) but despite what I thought better minds than mine have researched this.

Anyway (again I digress) but I feel the need to support Richard Stitson in his many years of putting together the 8th rallycross calendar and certainly in my conversations with Paul Worsley they are both well aware that clashes are not in the interests of either section. Bear in mind that for almost 18 months I have been banned by the BRCA I have no reason to stand up for them except for the fact I respect that 10th and 8th committees work hard to avoid what clashes they can and I will always stand up for the truth.

I have not even bothered looking at dates so I dont know what could be done BUT I will finish by saying that Jon and others foresaw these clashes and tried to tell you all that fewer 2 day meetings would free up more weekends..................but with worlds, euros, warmups and the many Fixed date events like Neo, Proline challenge, HongNor cup etc etc the job of getting a balanced calendar in one section let alone two is so hard I would not like to try doing it!

[Trish]

I agree with Jon,

One thing no one has mentioned yet is the fact is apart from Talywain it seems to be a northern biased venue series??

one shocker is the fact that EPR didn't get a national, I know that its south of the M25 but it has been undoubtedly the best venue this year! There will be alot of people agreeing with me on this.

With EPR being the only now ex national track in the south why have the southerners got to travel so far north for every single track?
Don't get me wrong I don't mind traveling to the great venues but it seems like the people who organised it didnt think about the racers from the south.

I know lets have all the tracks to cater for the southerners?

Silverstone,
Swindon,
Taplow,
EPR,
Stotfold,
Faversham,


I think the people of the north would be slightly anoyed??:eh?:

There are alot of people who will be upset by the way things have come about.

I'm looking forward to hearing peoples comments

[mikeyscott]

I did also notice about the location of the nationals and was also surpised to see EPR off the list.

That's an awful lot of travelling up north :(

[jondell]

Lots of great comments...

What I am trying to do is make awareness of the situ to all and hopefully get some good comments or support on here or to the committee. If you have an opinion, be vocal, then i can point the chairmen in this discussions direction, so that they can see what the people/racers want.

Mark C's comments are spot on. I know the co ordinating the off road sections is probably harder than the on road one (as mark pointed out there are less tracks and in most cases they are shared), but if this fails then i will try to get involved next year and get it right, as personally i want race in the 1/10th and be involved the 1/8th.

With the dates having just been released, probably earlier than ever before and with it not even being 2011, surely something can be done.

To John C, reason why the may day bank holiday is currently not being used, is that it is 1 week after Neo, which i know the 8th section help run. I ask the 8th section to move this date instead of the 10th section moving 2 dates and 8th none... Granted 2no 8th dates are clashed with 10th internationals, but the Euros one is a travel day and Neil Cragg has twice demonstrated that doing both is possible (although not without difficulties). If there are other solutions, then lets look at that... one date each moved and its sorted.

I will state it again, if each section can move 1 date then 10th racers have the chance to do all 10th races and the minimum 8th races. And then 8th racers have the chance to do all 8th races and the minimum 10th races.

[spenner]

I knew this was going to come out again!!!

Firstly, I have to say everyone has good points and bad points for dates etc... Now I totally agree to having britains finest attending both sets of nationals.
But,

If the dates were changed that would then mean two nationals in two weeks, ok for the guys who are supported. What about those who pay for everything?? Let's remember that at most there is about 15 drivers who will do both, and be able to gain entry to 10th nationals.

Then we also have the regional series, this is where the new stars come from!! Surely it will die as there will not be the support.

Personally with the amount of racing available in both classes they should both do 6 nationals each this would make things much easier. And we have booked that weekend for our silverstone event 1st may... ;)

Lastly.... All the talk etc on here will not get the result you are looking for, email the heads of each section. Those they support you can then put there names down.

Defo needs to be changes but will it ever happen ????
Maybe a north and south series next year with national final somewhere in the middle??? Does feel it's heading that way.

Good luck

[mark christopher]

Then we also have the regional series, this is where the new stars come from!! Surely it will die??



why can thay not be run when the 8th nationals are on? im sure you dont set your regional dates until after the national dates are anounced

[spenner]

Mark,

Yes you could clash with the 8th nationals. But this could potentially damage the grassroots of racing more than any other!!!
There are only 8 national meetings in 10th a year. But there are many more clubs who need revenue. If those who can compete in both classes do so, this could end up being more. Which would take drivers away from supporting local clubs. Then the clubs will lose out and eventually close. These clubs rely on income to pay bills etc. Lose the clubs then we lose the sport.

I would like to see the dates sorted so they don't clash... But unless 8th reduce the number of nationals it won't happen. And I am sorry but once again it is around 15 drivers who would benefit.

[RudeTony]

John mate,
I don't agree with you dude - the fact would be that MORE people would do regionals. I will explain.
Not everyone can get an entry to the Nationals as limited to 120.
Therefore racers would have to do their regionals and get a better licence to give them a chance to do the Nationals.
Also this is not about Lee, Darren, Neil and the rest of our superstar drivers we have. It's to do with the option of being able to do it as off-road racers and the BRITISH effort abroad for the year 2012 and the future.
How is it right for a driver like Darren Bloomfield not being able to complete at lets say 1/10th Worlds or visa versa with our 1/10th superstars at a 1/8th International event. This is not right at all.
If there is a back to back National then it should be up to the individuals to decide whether they want to go and NOT the BRCA.
I am all the way with Jon on this.......off road is off road and on road is that. If you are a Off-Road racer the chances are you want to do both and for that reason the BRCA HAS to review this again and do it NOW.
There are no entry forms out yet so there should be no excuse not to at least try and solve this date issue.
I for one want to race against the BEST drivers and not just some of them.
Even if I wasn't a racer I would want to see the best against each other and not the maybes of if who was and so on!!
To Trish - You are not the only one that is shocked at EPR not getting an event mate. This is not knocking any of the other clubs at all but EPR was one club that promoted the sport to the outside word and that has the potencialfor groth. Why the BRCA don't see that is beyond me. There should be a rule that a club PROMOTES the sport though TV, Radio, Newspapers and so on if a National event is gained. I've been argueing for this for years - got me in trouble before but I don't care anymore!
Lastly to John C. - The world doesn't stop because of a wedding dude - I can assure you theirs smells no different LOL

[spenner]

Tony my old fruit...

As I said I would like the sections to sort it out but...

I see what your saying about regionals but at some stage meetings will clash. So there will never be an increase at regionals, it will decline. This year will already see the introduction of more one off meetings in 10th just like 8th have already. These all add to the lack of weekends available.

Don't get me wrong but I would pay to see the cragg, bloomers all back in 10th, but tell me honestly how many more would benefit???
At the current situation....

If, and this is a big if... The drivers wanting to take part from 8th compete at regionals then there will be proof of the benefit. This is why at this current stage it will only benefit around 15 drivers.

There needs to be an off road meeting every year where they can set out dates, this can then be taken to the national meeting..

But as we know, nothing will be done now

[David Church]

I agree with Jon,

One thing no one has mentioned yet is the fact is apart from Talywain it seems to be a northern biased venue series??

one shocker is the fact that EPR didn't get a national, I know that its south of the M25 but it has been undoubtedly the best venue this year! There will be alot of people agreeing with me on this.

With no national at EPR it will be extremely damaging to the club which relies on the national interest to pay its rent I know its not the BRCAs job to keep tracks running but being the only track in the south why have the southerners got to travel so far north for every single track?
Don't get me wrong I don't mind traveling to the great venues but it seems like the people who organised it didnt think about the racers from the south.

I know lets have all the tracks to cater for the southerners?

Silverstone,
Swindon,
Taplow,
EPR,
Stotfold,
Faversham,


I think the people of the north would be slightly anoyed??:eh?:

There are alot of people who will be upset by the way things have come about.

I'm looking forward to hearing peoples comments


Spot on Trish.

The reason EPR didn't get a National is because the rep's didn't want to drive down M2five, five button broke haha
It has nothing to do with racing or whats best for the sport as a whole, it is to do with what is most convienent for their real car driving needs.
Like Jon Dell has said what a shame we can't all work together, oh well, what do I know, I am just a troublemaker eh??? Enough people officially complained about me this year, hence I am no longer the PRO.

[RudeTony]

Spot on Trish.

The reason EPR didn't get a National is because the rep's didn't want to drive down M2five, five button broke haha
It has nothing to do with racing or whats best for the sport as a whole, it is to do with what is most convienent for their real car driving needs.
Like Jon Dell has said what a shame we can't all work together, oh well, what do I know, I am just a troublemaker eh??? Enough people officially complained about me this year, hence I am no longer the PRO.

Shocking - simply shocking - lets all sit on the M6 instead eh! What the hell has the M25 (5 works LOL) got to do with it all.

[David Church]

Shocking - simply shocking - lets all sit on the M6 instead eh! What the hell has the M25 (5 works LOL) got to do with it all.


It seems it's ok to sit on the M6 for hours going to their tracks but coming to ours down the mtwentyfive(haha broken) this is a right pain in the arse. Heard it more than once.......
So the track as far as I was concerned was the best prepared, has the best facilities, had the best weather, and a great track as well is not on the calendar!!! Shocking

[DaSloth]

all i can says i've seen more of the m1 this year than the m25! which is strange considering i live right next to it! :)

But back to the subject, i think it would be great for both to be top class national series where the best of the best are able to attend. I'm sure compromise can be found somewhere but with the amount of one off events popping up (which are very important) it may come down to 8th dropping rounds to make it possible and even then it could be a squeeze.

Just my 2p worth :)

Regarding EPR, i think its such a shame for it to be dropped because its such an amazing venue which deserves the recognition of a national. i understand the nationals need to shared around, but i think a better north south balance would be nice.

[mw02veg]

oh and the fact the furthest national is last on the calender why not hold it at a central club? im so looking forward to spending my national season up north. why cant there be 2 in the south 2 in the mid and 2 in the north? if epr didnt get the event why not have it at silverstone?

[mikeyscott]

That's just shocking as if that's the case what are we doing making TORCH better if it's not about the track? (Yes I know better for the TORCH members, but there are other reasons, I always appreciate that we are no EPR...)

EPR is an awesome venue, best I've been to.

Dare I say it I'm half tempted to just do regionals next year now.

[RudeTony]

Lads - I agree with the EPR scenario but we need another thread for that.
This is the clash of 2 major off-road compatition clashing because of 2 sections not agreeing with each other or want to complete with each other or simply not communicating - I have got that right surely!!!!!!

[David Church]

I know I live way down south, but the closest National to me is Stotfold, and that It's nearly 120 miles!!! Everything else is nearly 200+
Seems the Mid to North of the country has cleaned up. It was like this when I started racing, but this was before we had a few tracks down here.
Well done to the comittee making sure it's a fair split for all racers. And well done for clashing with the 8th section again!!!
Perhaps I should have done my homework and realised I had to get someone to put my name forward for the PRO at the AGM, cause nobody was bothered to tell me, great eh???

[RudeTony]

I know I live way down south, but the closest National to me is Stotfold, and that It's nearly 120 miles!!! Everything else is nearly 200+
Seems the Mid to North of the country has cleaned up. It was like this when I started racing, but this was before we had a few tracks down here.
Well done to the comittee making sure it's a fair split for all racers. And well done for clashing with the 8th section again!!!
Perhaps I should have done my homework and realised I had to get someone to put my name forward for the PRO at the AGM, cause nobody was bothered to tell me, great eh???

Whos rep now Dave?

[David Church]

Nobody.....

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Nobody.....

Just goes to prove Dave that Nobody is better than you buddy:lol:

[David Church]

Just goes to prove Dave that Nobody is better than you buddy:lol:


Aw thanks mate:D

[niggs98]

even without the epr fopar (imho) the brca hasnt done the best thing in the world. i for one was hoping to be able to do both classes competetively in 2011 but just as last year cant do it. its a crying shame as both classes could do with the support of the racing comunity, especially in the current climate. what a shame the powers that be cant see this and continue to make both clash at every oportunity. now like many others I have to chose one class or the other. i can see another difficult year for the model shops, distibutors etc etc just from this alone as sales of spares, kits, tyres, electrics etc are going to drop. for the likes of bloomers craggy etc etc etc it also naffs up 2 years of racing as they cant qualify for both euros either so sponsors are forced to make difficult decisions as to which way is best to send their drivers for the next 2 years rather than just saying go do both lads.

i know the brca have a difficult job that none of us want but is it really that hard to talk and arange 12-16 weekends between april and september not to clash or am i seeing this all wrong. im sure they managed it for a couple of years and both classes enjoyed massively improved numbers especially at the sharp end. i know the argument is to also allow f4, f5 drivers to enter the nationals but surely regionals are there to let drivers improve their f ratings and get experience for nationals, euros, worlds etc etc

[telboy]

Well, from what I can see, the 8th section does actually have any venues booked yet. :eh?:

So surely that section at least can move things around?

[matdodd]

If that is the case just make both nationals championships 6 rounds.
Wouldn't that stop there being a problem?

[TheReferee]

before this gets totally out of hand lets look at some facts, there are 26 weekends between 2nd april and the 25 september, contrary to popular opinion the committee do try and avoid clashes where possible and we do not select our dates until we know both the international calender and the uk off road calender, we try to avoid bank holiday weekends if at all possible as it is not fair to send racers up the motorway system on a bank holiday friday.
we avoid a clash with the 1/10 euro's the 1/10 worlds and the belgian GP which we know many uk 1/10 racers like to attend.
we then avoid clashing with the 1/8 euro b and a races.
we managed to avoid 3 of the 4 bank holidays and now we have to fit in the clubs wishes in terms of dates, remember some of our venues (Oswestry and southport) are in publicly accesible parks and are constrained on dates by other users. this year we have clashed rounds 2,3 and 4 of both series which all occur occur in a 6 week period and include 2 international 1/8 events and 2 1/10 international events. i really do not see how we can be accused of not doing the best for both 1/10 and 1/8.
it will always be impossible to not have a clash of some sort, this year is poorer than before due to the 1/10 worlds and associated warm up race which is in europe. next year may improve but then that depends on where the 1/8 worlds is. it is very easy to criticise the committee when you are looking at a calendar and see what is to you a free weekend with no clash. however you do not have the information that on that date we have no club able to do it and so have to move it forward or back. what you have is the minimum number of clashing events we can achieve given the constraints we have.

[jondell]

We understand and we are not critisising, I am simply making a suggestion from looking at the overall calender which includes 10th and 8th national and international dates. Maybe, just maybe in the hustle and bustle of trying to get it all together something has been over looked.

To pick up on your first paragraph, you state you avoid bank holidays, etc etc... then why is round 4 on a bank holiday and clashes with a 8th date?? If it was a case that the host club could not cater another date, was another club asked... dare i say it, such as EPR??

Also, unless something changes... bit pointless avoiding 8th euro B & A championships in the future, as no 10th racer will be doing either of them due to not qualifying.

The remit just does not add up

[jondell]

If that is the case just make both nationals championships 6 rounds.
Wouldn't that stop there being a problem?

8th are at fault for not having less rounds, but as it lies, 6 10th and 8 8th.. although as previously stated 10th has 8 national weekends with the EOS finals.

[jondell]

The commercial aspect must also be considered.

Model shops need more customers to survive, and currently we are seeing less and less model shops... clashing races means that shops would need to choose which race to go to, which means the model shop is not supporting all of his customers at the actual place where customers want support (the track). ok so not all shops want to go to races on sunday or cater for both classes, but many do.

IF that shop then decides to drop stocking a class because of clashes.... who loses?? the customer, then the club, then the class. (and the shop during all of that period)

Then on another level, we have distributor companies that support both classes. Some of these distributors employ people to attend races to support the shops, the customers and their team drivers. Clashes again will result in the need to decide which event they attend. This is most likely based on which class creates the most revenue. Without the distributor chap at the event, the class loses support, development and quite importantly media coverage.... funny how most of these guys are at 8th races and media coverage of 8th is far greater than 10th.

[Neil Skull]

I think this is a tough job to organise any section let alone avoid clashing with another.
I think the only way it will change is if enough members agree a proposal at the AGM that where possible clashes between 1/10th and 1/8th should be avoided.
Also if you want EPR as a venue then you have to to go and vote at the AGM.

The BRCA is constitution and its possible for the members to get anything changed. You just need to get together and attend the AGM!!

We have put to the 1/8th section a number of years not to clash with the Kyosho masters in June as it is same weekend every year but it always does. I was thinking of getting as many Kyosho drivers as possible together and making a rule that the weekend of the 18th June is kept clear for the masters.:p

[c0sie]

Jon,

Just out of pure curiosity..have you emailed your suggestion(s) to both Sections respective Chairmen?

[TheReferee]

We understand and we are not critisising, I am simply making a suggestion from looking at the overall calender which includes 10th and 8th national and international dates. Maybe, just maybe in the hustle and bustle of trying to get it all together something has been over looked.

To pick up on your first paragraph, you state you avoid bank holidays, etc etc... then why is round 4 on a bank holiday and clashes with a 8th date?? If it was a case that the host club could not cater another date, was another club asked... dare i say it, such as EPR??

Also, unless something changes... bit pointless avoiding 8th euro B & A championships in the future, as no 10th racer will be doing either of them due to not qualifying.

The remit just does not add up

i assume you mean round 3, which is the only one on a bank holiday, in that case moving one week back would clash with the worlds warm up and moving one week forward would clash with the euro's warm up. as i said we did what we could with what we had.

[matdodd]

8th are at fault for not having less rounds, but as it lies, 6 10th and 8 8th.. although as previously stated 10th has 8 national weekends with the EOS finals.

Sorry Jon thats not what I'm saying!

It seamed to me looking through the thread that the point your making is that we all want the best 8th & 10th scale drivers competing in both National Championships (which I'm all for) so that they have an opportunity to qualify for both classes big international races?

If thats the case most of these drivers wont be that interested in competing at 1/10th end of season finals especially if they have more important commitments in 1/8th etc.

With many big yearly meetings in 1/8th and similar meetings starting to happen for 1/10th like the oople race its a very congested calender which is only going to get more difficult to work to everyones liking.
So if there was 6 rounds for each nationals championship wouldn't that make it easier to fit them in with no clashing dates?
That way guys can do both championships if they want to and it makes it easier for all the factory sponsored lads and anyone else wanting to qualify for Euros/Worlds for both classes to do so!

[Andy Taylor]

8th are at fault for not having less rounds, but as it lies, 6 10th and 8 8th.. although as previously stated 10th has 8 national weekends with the EOS finals.

As you know Jon I am with you on this one. Thats said if I was still allowed to attend race meetings and Lee was still racing then my situation would be totally different to what I had before.

With Lee working Saturdays to start with I thought it would be bad to have two day events, but when we discussed it recently it was actually easier to get a few Saturdays off Than hope the events did not clash as he works every other week.

So thats just me /us. It must be damn hard to please anyone who is doing two classes in this day and age. I appreciate moving one forward or backwards might solve it this time but only two years ago Truggies were steering clear of 8th and these were the two classes many drivers favoured over 10th. Now that 10th has developed a more public image many more want to compete against each other in these classes also.

Hell I have more reason to not support the BRCA as no one supported me this last 18 months, but having been there I can see so many problems why things just inevitably eventually clash. Now its 8th and 10th it was truggies and 8th before that it was on and off road, but can you see my point.

[rcdunk]

tell you what lets do what the yanks do national is held over one big meeting then you will have loads of spare weekends

comments about travel and the north south devide this is always gonna be a problem more for some people to travel than others

i was hoping the 1/8th section would go for the leser option of 4 2 day meetings rather than the 7 one day and the 1 2 day this would have enabled me to do them all and take the family along too nice weekend away and half the traveling to do too which is going to be more expensive than ever come january with the extra vat and the growing price of fuel too with all these events 2011 will be the first year in 10 that i feel i wont be able to do the full rallycross national series.


this is besides the point but i do think that the sections should be able to work to a common result which is our top boys being able to compete at the top level

this leave the decision up to the drivers
I belive that lee martin chose this year to concentrate on 10th rather than 8th to enble him to gain a worlds slot for 2011 but his choice was a loss for the 8th nationals as when he did turn up was up the front with the best of them
on the other foot 8th national champion bloomfield was 8th all the way and now will not be at the 2011 worlds (from what i understand ) which is a shame with the relese of the new tlr22 would be near the front
both of these drivers were a loss to the other section inmho
ther were others that chose one section over the other but the list would be too long

[Reevsey]

There is also one point in here i think is worth raising, How has a track such as kiddy been awarded a national when it does not even operate as a club? (please correct me if i am wrong as things can change)

For me nationals should be run on the best tracks, but also the revenue and exposure from a national event should be used to invest back into the sport and raise the grass routes level/profile. Not sure how this is achieved when you don't have a club running

I just hope all that have offered to help on the day do so as last time a full national (not End of seasonal finals) was held there, where there not requests on the day for people to help run the meeting??

[mattJT]

There is also one point in here i think is worth raising, How has a track such as kiddy been awarded a national when it does not even operate as a club? (please correct me if i am wrong as things can change)

For me nationals should be run on the best tracks, but also the revenue and exposure from a national event should be used to invest back into the sport and raise the grass routes level/profile. Not sure how this is achieved when you don't have a club running

I just hope all that have offered to help on the day do so as last time a full national (not End of seasonal finals) was held there, where there not requests on the day for people to help run the meeting??

The kiddy "issue" is being debated down in the thread in BRCA section?where the poll is.

[Yardeeee]

Hi Simon,

Whilst we do not hold "club meetings" Kiddermister is still a club- there a large number of members there who have access to the facility, we also host a full winter series and regional events.

We have a full plan of action for the coming months to get the facility back to its absolute best, and we also have a team assembled for on the day assistance to host the event. Rest assured it will be a fantastic event.

Not fully sure what your point has to do with calendar clashes mind you.
Tom

[PTRU]

first of all people should contact there regional rep.

He she voted for the clubs that run the nationals (1/10th) if it is still the same as when I was involved.

1/8th I have no idea how this works, it would be worth contacting them to see if it is possible to sort the date.

If every body did this then there is a possibility something might happen, or if like AGM people chat on line and do nothing, nothing will change.

;)

Or perhaps it is time for a new type of championship?????

[Smartalec]

Or perhaps it is time for a new type of championship?????
What do you have in mind Mr Phil? :)

[AmiSMB]

I feel it is most important for the 1/8th and 1/10th Off road sections to manage any date clashes as their are many great racers that do both disciplines and it would be very sad for UK racing that we cannot sort this calendar issue out.

[Reevsey]

Hi Simon,

Whilst we do not hold "club meetings" Kiddermister is still a club- there a large number of members there who have access to the facility, we also host a full winter series and regional events.

We have a full plan of action for the coming months to get the facility back to its absolute best, and we also have a team assembled for on the day assistance to host the event. Rest assured it will be a fantastic event.

Not fully sure what your point has to do with calendar clashes mind you.
Tom

Hi Tom

I guess the point i am trying to make is that Kiddy National clashes with the 4th 1/8th Nat, I wanted to clarify if Kiddy was a club which you have confirmed it is but i can assume that the club meets say 7 times a year for winter series + 2 regionals but no club meetings, i firmly belive that nationals should help develop clubs to aid grass routes racing to ensure we have a healthy base for the future which for me i am not sure Kiddy does. (just my personal opinion as i see it as a venue not a true club)

I have for example always been a big supporter of Oswestry as they always put a huge effort in to organising an event (whilst people have knocked the track over time) Over the time they have had nationals it really looks like from the outside that the club has grown (now i could be wrong) not to mention they always manage to provide the most helpers to run a national and it generally runs very well.

It is a shame that in 2009 we had very minimal date issues yet in 2010 it started to go wrong and in 2011 it is getting worse.

Looks like i need to decide wether to refuel or recharge for 2011

Si

[RogerM]

I feel I have to pipe up on the Kidderminster point, even though it's not really totally relevant to this particular thread.

Kidderminster IS a club and actually holds more Sunday 1/10th scale events at it's venue than many West Mids clubs, only Coventry I believe have more (because they run other classes for other forumlas like short course etc.).
When the request was made for helpers for the national event there was a good response from those that, like myself, think it's a great place to race.

The West Midlands region doesn't really have much "club" racing as far as I can tell (only raced in that region since the mid 80s so I might have missed it) because the racers prefer to get out and about and see different venues. Most club events seem to be casual affairs on a weekday evening if there is enough light. Oswestry excepted as they have a proper club championship on a weekday night which I would love ot go to but nearly 4hrs weeknight round trip to a 'club' in my 'region' isn't practical.
To that end Kidderminster runs as actively as just about any other club in our region and has, in my opinion, the best track in the region if no the country .... my opinion remember.
So with my opinion considered then I would ALWAYS put Kidderminster forward for a national if it was my choice as I consider it to be unbeaten as a venue ..... money where my mouth is? Too right ... it is going to cost me & my good lady close to 500 real cold hard pounds in lost earnings to support Kidderminster on the national weekend ... see you all there, just make sure your cars fit in the box! :p

[matdodd]

I firmly believe that nationals should help develop clubs to aid grass routes racing to ensure we have a healthy base for the future which for me i am not sure Kiddy does. (just my personal opinion as i see it as a venue not a true club)

Si

Hi Si
I can understand your point, but are nationals really there to encourage newcomers to the sport, or are they there to showcase the best drivers and facilities that we have across the country?
If we go to the same venues every year then surley we will just end up with 7 or 8 fantastic clubs with great facilities. Which is great for people who do the nationals anyway but not for newcomers to the sport.

Part of the reason why the number of club racers has declined is down to the sheer number of nationals/regionals, and once a year meetings which are becoming more popular. This means there are very few weekends free for club meetings, and when there are free weekends most drivers take the opportunity to practice on a national track. In turn this means the big tracks earn additional revenue all year round along with the benefits of holding a national.

[jondell]

Jon,

Just out of pure curiosity..have you emailed your suggestion(s) to both Sections respective Chairmen?

Yes, using the information gained from this thread, my suggestion has been formally issued to both sections today. We now wait and see.

[David Spashett]

Hello All
This thread makes for interesting reading. It seems to me that all the racers simply want the same thing which is the chance to be allowed to race.
Again from reading what most people have posted everyone wants to support their local club, regional and national championships but cannot because there are simply too many events in our UK calendar. If changes can be made to this years National calendar then fantastic it's a start. Regardless if these changes happen or not if our racing scene continues to grow then it is for all of us to look at the best possibilities to ensure clubs, regional and national championships are well supported and healthy as we move forward.
just my .02 worth
Cheers
David